Tuesday, November 18, 2025

The Con Game?

 Great Thread posted at scam.com:


http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=142975

It is stunning to realize the enormity of this con. Multi-million and billion dollar companies, stock exchange listed companies, companies that put on the facade of being a good corporate neighbor and innocent "business" (cough) next door.

Network marketing is a flawed and unsustainable business model that effectively is fed and supported by those on the bottom. Those on the bottom work a job to fund their product purchases. Those spoils of war then are divided up by the upline and sponsor company. Those on the bottom, who use funds from their jobs (rather than product sales) to sustain the "business", are an ever expanding rotating door of new recruits.

Although the products may be of high quality and slickly packaged, and give the impression that you are a marketeer of these sundry goods...the reality is much different. You are required to buy monthly quotas for personal use and recruit your ass off to gain entry into the promised land. The product you are really selling is a dubious "business opportunity"...your real market is "opportunity seekers".

A real business markets and sell goods and services. They are sustained by real retail sales. They order only what they know they can sell. From what I see all these mlms push recruiting as the ticket to the good life. Products and retailing mean nothing.

Another major difference is a real business owner holds title to his business...something he can sell. In mlm, you own nothing but your small product inventory.

The nature of this false and flawed business model will always have in its wake a vast turnover at the bottom of the pyramid structure. Its the nature of the beast and can be no other way, all math aside. The many "losers and the quitters" and dreamers who hang in there waiting for their ship to come in are those who support the top and sponsor company. There will always be a relentless drive to recruit at the bottom as it has nothing to do with true product retailing to support the business but finding and recruiting opportunity seekers. The emphisis is always on finding new recruits rather than selling product. And indeed, many of these mlm businesses put restrictions on the associates ability to retail the product...which subtly strengthens its true goal of recruiting as the primary revenue stream...not product sales.

These "businesses" (cough again) are predatory and prey on the many by appealing to dreams of luxury and a life of ease, especially those with troubles in their life. The start money is low to get into the "business", which is unlike a real business that takes more sizable seed money, some knowledge and guidance and a real business plan.

Those few that actually make sizable incomes from these schemes must live with the knowledge that their life is supported by the broken dreams, efforts and losses of those on the bottom. They conveniently set aside any feelings of culpability after stepping on the bodies of their fellow man so they can proclaim that they worked hard and made it.

There simply is no parallel between a network marketing model as a "business" and how a "normal?" business really works. I understand this because I own a real business that retails real product.

Network marketing is simply the greatest con game of all time. They should all be shut down.

Monday, November 17, 2025

Conditional Friends?

 You hang out with friends, generally people you like and have similar interests. You have good and bad times, but your true friends are there for you when you need them. You move residences, your friends are there to help you move. They may play a round of golf with you, or watch some sporting events, dinners, backyard barbeques, movies, etc. These are folks you will likely end up retiring with and enjoying your golden years.

But suddenly, you get enticed to join Amway. You see the "chance" to get rich, with a shortcut (not get rich quick, but a "shortcut"). You sign up and your sponsor is your new "best" friend. Most of the people you enjoyed being with think Amway is a questionable venture to get involved in. Suddenly, because of what you have been told or taught, you view these same nice people as "broke" or "losers", simply because they do not share the same ambition of untold wealth working 12-15 hours a week. Suddenly, you friends become prospects, or people you want to sponsor so you start recruiting them. Some may join, but most won't. Suddenly you are immersed in recruitment meetings, functions, and avoiding "negative", which is people and events that do not support your Amway business. Sadly, many of these "negative" people were likely what you previously thought of as "good friends".

Now you are missing birthday parties, barbeques, and other social events. Your social events are now recruitment meetings, seminars and Amway business related events. You are taught that these events (birthday parties, etc.) can be put off and your gratification delayed. You can do whatever you want when you go diamond. (Even though there might be only one (1) diamond out of every ten or twenty thousand IBOs) Your dedication will pay off right? Sadly, for most people, even very dedicated people, all they will see is losses on their yearly tax returns, mainly due to the purchase of cds, books, voicemail and function tickets. But these are your "friends" right?

Here's my take on it. Try missing a few meetings or functions. Stop buying cds and see how many "friends" remain from the business. It is likely that your upline will claim that you walked away from the friendship by slowing down on the "system". If that happens, then you have conditional friends, or fair weather friends. They are your "friends" while you are pursuing the same cause. They are your friends when you are attending functions. Are they there for you in bad times?

A short while after I attended my last function (I was still an IBO, just not a business builder), my dad passed away. Not a single one of my IBO "friends" bothered to attend the memorial service. Not a single one of my IBO friends called or dropped by the home to pay their respects. All of my "real" friends, who saw through the AMO smoke and mirrors called to talk to me and/or attended the memorial service.

Are your IBO friends conditional friends? Mine were.

Saturday, November 15, 2025

A Part Time Job?

 Many people pitch Amway as an easy, and somewhat shortcut to riches. It's all over the internet, it's what I saw as an IBO, and I have good reason to believe that many still pitch Amway in this manner. I believe that people want to believe that you can create wealth part time in 2-5 years. IBOs and prospects may be told "it's not get rich quick", but 2-5 years to quit your job and live off ongoing lifelong residual income sure sounds like the pitch of a get rich quick scam. It is what has contributed to Amway's current bad reputation.  

A typical IBO (not counting those who do nothing), according to the "plan" will consume and possibly sell some goods on their way to 100 PV, which will earn them about a $10 bonus from Amway. There might be some profit from sales to customers, but there are also expenses involved in running a business. If an IBO is on the system, then their expenses might run from $100 or so to $500 a month, depending on level of commitment (brainwashing). In the end, a flawed system and generally non competitive pricing and products leads to most IBOs eventually quitting. The vast majority of IBOs on the system will wind up with a net loss, even with a tremendous amount of effort. Seems that effort has no relationship with success in Amway. Based on my experience, deception and lies seem to be a better way to succeed in Amway than by hard work.

But what if someone basically worked a part time job instead of Amway? If someone simply got a 20 hour a week job at $10 an hour (not that difficult), someone could earn about $800 a month gross income, or about $9600 a year. In ten years, even with no raises in salary, that person would have earned close to $100,000 more income. That money, if invested into a diverse portfolio can be the nest egg that would allow someone to retire early, or to retire more comfortably than most. And that salary is guaranteed if you work the hours.  

In Amway, there are no assurances of anything, even if you work 40 hours a week. The only assurance if that you will help your upline earn more than yourself by moving products. If you are on the system, you are basically paying your upline (via tool purchases) for the privilege of boosting your upline's volume. It is why uplines teach you to "never quit" and to be "core". These virtues help assure your upline of profits, but does little for the rank and file IBOs. I write this blog post just to stimulate thought amongst IBOs and prospects. There are better and easier options than the Amway opportunity. If you are reading this, you are looking at one potential alternative. It's your job to decide.

Friday, November 14, 2025

IBOs Or Victims?

 I've heard over the years, many IBOs who failed in the Amway opportunity who blamed themselves for not putting in enough effort, not trying hard enough or not working the system. While I don't doubt that some IBOs don't work hard enough, I cannot fathom that so many motivated and eager prospects simply failed because they didn't work hard enough. I believe IBOs are taught to accept failure as their own.

Uplines will tell new IBOs to trust them and that these new IBOs will succeed if only they will follow the advice of the allegedly successful diamond because they have already blazed the trail for you. Ironically, after many IBOs fail, upline will never take responsibility for the advice they issued that led to downline failures. They then turn the tables on their downline and say that their advice is like a buffet. You pick and choose the advice you need and disregard the rest. That is such a bunch of crap that I cannot fathom downline IBOs buying what they are shoveling. A new IBO places their trust in the diamonds because they have achieved the pinnacle of success but a new IBO is supposed to pick and choose which advice to follow? And then failure is the fault of the downline?

Ironically and sadly, these downline, when they ultimately fail, often end up blaming themselves and just disappear unless someone recruits them again. They are often sponsored by friends and family so you won't see them filing complaints against Amway or the uplines who led them astray. Uplines nearly assured their success if only these new IBOs would buy the training materials and attend all of the functions. But many IBOs work hard and do everything outlined by upline only to fail. It is likely because the system doesn't work. Many financial systems are for sale out there and most of them have very little success. Amway is no different, except that uplines promote their systems as sure fire.

It is however, my belief that many or possibly most IBOs are the victims of fraud in that they are given possibly false positive information about the Amway opportunity. They get involved and find out that the system doesn't work, and then they end up quitting with a loss and them blaming themselves. Brilliant for the uplines who profit but in my opinion, it makes IBOs the victims of fraud by upline. Upline profits whether or not their downline makes a cent. Some upline strongly encourage downline to buy more and more tools, even when they know that those downline have no chance of making money in the Amway opportunity. It makes the IBOs victims and it makes the uplines a bunch of crooks.

Thursday, November 13, 2025

Diamonds Appear Wealthy?

 One of the things that many IBOs do not understand is where the upline profits actually come from. They think they will obtain passive residual income, but most do not understand how it works or where the money comes from. What most people see instead, is a photocopy of an upline's check, or they may see upline driving a nice car or something like that. They do not understand how the business works and the fact that there are two businesses at work. The Amway opportunity and the tools and functions business. Frankly, most IBOs would be much better off giving their upline a check for $50 each month and never getting involved in the Amway opportunity to begin with.

Upline earns some income from the movement of products. Amway returns about 30% of their gross in the form of bonuses. Most (active business building) IBOs earn 3% while uplines split up the remaining 27% of the bonus. Not such a great deal when you think about it. Also, most IBOs overspend on Amway products. They are not simply replacing what they normally buy. If they did, then there would be tons of former IBOs continuing to move 100 PV or more. Instead, when an IBO quits, they either buy nothing from Amway anymore, or they may use a few products here and there. The opportunity and the way it is promoted simply creates an artificial need for Amway products. If the products were so great, why then after 50 years of business, that IBOs sell less than 5% of their goods to non-IBOs, making IBOs the primary and possibly the only consumer of Amway products?

Then you have the tools business where IBOs don't even get a measly 3% of the profits. Uplines keep all of the tool profits. While this may seem acceptable on the surface, keep in mind that the tools do not work. There is no unbiased evidence that I know of that suggests that the tools create a natural progression of IBOs. I cannot name more than a few new diamonds in the US since I left the business in 1997 or 1998. And even if there were some new diamonds, I believe there were even more who quit or left Amway for other reasons. One might wonder why a diamond would quit in the first place if there really was residual passive income involved.

So where does upline profits come from? Simple, it comes directly out of the pockets of downline. If IBOs actually sold products, then some profits would come from sales and customers. Instead, most Amway sales are simply made from upline to downline. And virtually ALL sales in the tools business comes from upline to downline. Thus, many IBOs spend $500 to $600 a month on products and get back $10 if they reach 100 PV. Then you factor in the $150 to $250 monthly that IBOs typically spend on tools. Suddenly that cheap or no risk opportunity doesn't sound so cheap. And try working it for several years and IBOs can easily rack up tens of thousands of dollars of expenses.

That where upline profits come from folks. Do the math, most IBOs truly would be better off giving upline a check for $50 a month and doing nothing else.

Wednesday, November 12, 2025

Get Rich Slow?

 One of the things upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. (I believe Amway is a scam) Ironic, but when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for like while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich, even if it's not quick. Amway leaders have said "Amway is get rich slow".

What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a profit, let alone getting rich from Amway. How many of these retired Amway people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either.

I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are misled to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person, which is quite inefficient on a large scale.

Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the Amway opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. The real life results and Amway's own disclosures suggest that I am spot on.

Tuesday, November 11, 2025

IBOs Talk A Good Game?

 Having blogged for a number of years now, I have observed that IBOs talk a good game about retailing, sponsoring and doing Amway business activities. They will tell you to set yourself up with 20 customers, sponsor 6 frontline, show a number of plans and set up certain follow ups with contacts, and doing other activities supposedly to build an Amway business. I find if humorous when these same IBOs start throwing insults or diverting the discussion when someone asks if they are actually making money. Of course, it would be understandable if a new IBO would admit they had not made a fortune as of yet but it seems that even that response is not forthcoming from IBOs.

It seems that the Amway business is simple enough. Buy some products, sell products and try to sponsor some downline in order to leverage your volume with your downlines. IBOs mistakenly believe that you can build it once correctly and that the income will flow into future generations. What goes unnoticed is that IBOs come and go with such a high frequency, that a business generating residual income would be like a sandcastle on the beach. You might build it nice and big but the waves of attrition would quickly turn that sandcastle into nothing. The same would be true of an Amway business. The IBOs dropping out would wipe out your business unless you are constantly replacing the people who quit. IBOs like to talk about Amway sales and how the company is growing in sales, but the Amway sales have no relationship with making IBOs more profitable.

IBOs may also toss in comments about how they are nicer people or how they are improving their marriage because of the Amway business. I often wonder how that can be when functions and meetings take you away from your family and spouse. I suppose it could be because the uplines talk about people being nicer or tossing out lies about Amway and the AMOs saving marriages. I remember a WWDB diamond talking about how WWDB members had a 2% divorce rate while the rest of society has a 60% divorce rate. Ironically, that diamond's marriage ended in divorce. I believe this crap is still taught as a WWDB IBO who blogs, had mentioned this tidbit on his blog last year. I don't believe Amwayers or anyone else has a higher or lower rate of divorce than society but it becomes an issue when uplines teach it and their downlines repeat it.

So it would seem that IBOs talk a good game. They know what to say and how to act, but they're like poker players who are bluffing. If you call them on it, they are likely to fold in their hands because they don't have the goods. It is why many Amway discussions turn into a insult contest, when the IBO suddenly gets confronted with facts that are contrary to upline teaching. It's usually quite funny but I wonder if these folks question their upline or go on their merry way repeating uplines lies? It becomes apparent to everyone but the IBO when they are repeating crazy stuff taught by their upline. Good luck to anyone who tries to build this business against nearly insurmountable odds.