Wednesday, January 16, 2013

Is Amway Just A Mind Game?

This was a comment left on this blog. It is a very good description of what many IBOs experience and how uplines manipulate them:


Amway is totally a mind game. Controlling your mind is the name of the game. Each and everything that is said from the stage, in the cd..is done for a reason. When you are in it, you dont think u are being manipulated. Rather you are made to feel like you are a winner..and you are exceptionally better off than the average outside(non-amway) people, whereas in reality you are loosing every day- loosing in the sense, you are not getting the results for the efforts u are putting.

Every possible negative situation that could happen is thought of and covered from the stage, and the cd. For eg: let's say u have been in the business for 5 years and not making profit. You will listen to a cd where the speaker says nothing happened to them for the first 5 years of business- so u will be like, this is so similar to my story..if I stay a little more time, it is going to work for me.

The job world and the outside people (non-amway people) is painted in such a negative color in the system, so u will be like business is not working..but jobs dont work either...let me stick it out and make it in the business...anyway i will not be able to even spend any time with people outside, let me stay in the business.

You are encouraged to have bigger dreams and get pictures of your dreams on your fridge or have a dream board. In a way this keeps u in the biz, b'coz it is your dream and u are like, how can i choose to leave the biz and these dreams.

Big time stroking of ego happens in all associations. At all associations, whoever that is getting results at that time is promoted through the roof. Sometimes when u are not getting any results, some of the big pins, wont even acknowledge ur presence. U will be like...i will show it to u, what i am capable of and will stay in the biz some more time.

The main goal of the system is to keep u in the biz for some more time, until that next function or seminar comes to pump u up or give u hope. In the meantime u will be buying 300PV worth of product and increase Amway's business and will be buying tools and be inncreasing your system's income.

If u have a few people in your group, quitting becomes even more difficult, u will be like..how can i tell these people, whom i gave dreams and got them in...that i am not going to pursue.

If ur upline is in the local area, if u tell them that u dont want to continue, they will come to ur house, spend hours with u and will use every technique in the book to keep u in.

For those of u who have read "How to win Friends and Influence people"- two main techniques are used from that book in amway business:
1) Appeal to Nobler cause- There is no real money in Amway for most people- so what do they appeal to - Impacting people, better marriages, great families, Free Enterprise, Intagible benefits like becoming a better person etc etc etc.

2)Dramatize your ideas- This is what happens in the function- whereas everything is dramatized--incredible fear about economy, job world is put in your mind and incredible rewards achieved by people in the business is constantly talked about( in a crowd of 3000 in a function, at the most 20 so called successful people talk-so there is your ratio of sucess.)

So, how does this business run? why do people stay in? for HOPE...HOPE of making it one day..HOPE of achieving their dreams...They stay afloat with HOPE

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

This is a good description. The key to success is to be good at conveying this belief that you can make it. The big pins are brilliant at this. Thats why they have for 50 years recruited faster than the high quit rate.

Anonymous said...

Nailed it on the head, Joecool! From seeing my friends, and talking to their upline it feels like they are in a cult. They always refer to their upline like she is some professional or superstar. When I met her, one of them would always mimic her and when she told him to ask around Starbucks-that's where we met- if anyone was interested. He did not question it all and started bugging random strangers, but fortunately they all said no and I said no.

AntiAmway

Joecool said...

The Amway presentation is often a well crafted psychological game. Get the prospect to agree on things (i.e. taxes too high, early retirement good, etc) Then when a level of trust is built, that's when the upline raise the bar and try to get you committed and hooked on their cds and seminars.

Anonymous said...

Excellent Post!! The more one believes their upline more deeper they go in to the hole!

Duped said...

I got in the business w/several friends and stayed in long after everyone (including my downline and 2 upline Platinums and their groups) quit. I was on system, bought from myself, had some customers, contacted people, but had trouble turning those contacts into real prospects. Down deep I always thought I was using them.

From the 1st night pack on, I immersed myself in the tapes, sometimes listening to 5 or 6 a day, depending on my work schedule. So pretty quickly I got on Standing order tape. When summer conference came, it was promoted that all the leaders would be there and not going sets your business back 6 months. I enjoyed the rallies and was so sure that my time would come. Soon I was getting tapes, books and videos and going to opens, seminars and functions.

My upline would give examples of businesses that would explode after the IBO came close to quitting but persevered. I was told to 'Just keep doing what you're doing' and 'your time is coming.' I had hope. I listened to the leaders spinning the dream and believed. I was loyal and so excited to the degree that at least twice I slept in my car, in January, at a major because I didn't have money for a room. 'If the dream is big enough the facts don't coun't!' My upline didn't even know; I figured they'd find out when I told my Diamond Story - HA!

Year after year (after year after year) I rationalized my business or lack thereof. You are spot on refering to 'How to Win Friends' Appeal to the Nobler Cause. Surrounding myself with the business and positive people was teaching me and helping me to prepare for a huge business, my PV just hadn't caught up...or so I was told.

There was always a new product or tool that would explode our business. Maybe for a few people, but most of us had little or no growth. Even my upline diamond lost some legs that had to be replaced to stay in qualification. But this time it was going to be different. Although we had just bought some new tools for our group, something even better was coming. We were going to plug into TEAM's system. Now our businesses would really explode (they used that word way too often).

As far as I know, no business ever exploded, and when we parted ways w/Amway I finally wised up and parted ways w/my upline. All the years and money - gone. But you couldn't have convinced me otherwise, because I believed. I'd tell someone today to take all that money s/he's 'investing' in the business and instead put it in an IRA or something for retirement...the returns have got to be better.

amwayscam said...

I feel sad, but thank god that you have had the guts to quit. For long, I have been advocating the fact that everyone in some or the other way gets sucked into MLM. Everyone will always quit no one is life long MLM member. How much ever you work the business is designed to make people lose money. Earlier you quit better it is.

Anonymous said...

+1

David Parra said...

I believe this is true. my upline is making 2.500 pv or that' what he tells me. however his life is not good he is loosing money in gas and presentations and I bet he is not making any income. I know his dad is helping him with everything. buy I talked to him and he told me that his son spends so many hours working this business but he doesn't see any profit from it. however I always use amway products even before I knew about the bussines becoming an ibo gets you the chance to buy the products I already use at a less amount of money why not and get pay from it why not. nothing changes exept saving money. I also save 13 percent in my cellphone bill when I became an ibo. Don't know how but it happen and that's also good. I can make some extra money in my non valuable time. if I use amway which is the money save as a ibo. Not BWW that's really a scam. I was in it. Not worth it.

matthew pezzimenti said...

I got started and heard this not get rich quick.
I heard it takes commitment
I heard basic success principles
I chose to DO IT! That means commit to the work and the education, to play the long game!
Mind you I already was self employed with a consulting business for 2 decades and I was tired of it. 59-60 hour weeks, making ok money with no life! I made a REAL Decision to REALLY build it. 48 months of hard work after hours and I more than replaced my income. I now work 25-30 hours per week as I decide and spend time I never did before with my family!
Most won't read this, others will justify why this is wrong or whatever....
Here's one thing I Know....
As a man thinks, so is he! Hard work and patience is what it takes to succeed at anything. Most people would prefer blaming someone or something and claim to be a victim.
Man that's easy and you can very quickly find a bunch of folks to commiserate with. Remember
As a man thinks so is he! Be Blessed!

Joecool said...

That's a nice story that sounds like it came right out of an Amway book or cd. I've never claimed that nobody makes money in Amway, but it is a fact that those who do make money in Amway, do so by exploiting their downline.. If hard work and a decision was key in Amway, many people would be succeeding but Amway's own stats reveal a dismal successs rate but then again, Amway is design that way so people should not be surprised at the dismal results.

matthew pezzimenti said...

Joe
It’s not just a nice story.
You have not succeeded at this business
So I understand when you fail, your advice is from that perspective.
I have had success at it. So my advice is from that perspective.
How? By helping others succeed at it.
Anyone who takes advice from someone who fails at something will get advice from that perspective. When I played high school football. Hundreds of kids would show up, most of them claiming that they were gonna start on the team. It didn’t take long and dozens didn’t show up day after day until we were left with people that got committed. Most didn’t get a starting position and many never got to play. If someone wants to, I mean really wants to succeed at something should they go get advice from the guys who quit? Or those that persevered. This business is not for everybody. And I personally will never attempt to talk someone into it... why? Because they will not do it. A person convinced against their will is still unconvinced. I will also not try to keep someone from quitting, because even if they remain they’ve mentally quit. Amway is a company that manufactures some products and has developed partnerships with dozens of other companies. They handle logistics and compensate people who create volume.
How someone does this varies!!!
Not all business teams and/or individuals who attempt to build the business are the same. And many have drastically different methods of building it.

Joecool said...

Matthew, nothing in your story convinces me that you are successful. You are just parroting information from the training material that your upline sold you. You apparently never read about how I was at 4000 PV with eagle parameters but because I followed upline advice to spend all profits on tools, I ended up losing money. Yes, I have some responsibility for that but when my good friend was my sponsor and I trusted that their advice would be sound, I followed their advice until I realized they were full of crap and quit.

John Doe said...

Matthew said, "You have not succeeded at this business
So I understand when you fail, your advice is from that perspective.
I have had success at it. So my advice is from that perspective."

Good. According to you, we can get two different perspectives and then compare and contrast. I can't wait to learn what Amway is like from someone with "success".

Side note: Joe actually did have success in Amway, but that appears to be irrelevant.

Matthew said, "How? By helping others succeed at it."

Translation: I recruited a bunch of people and make money from their continuous payments into the "business".

This is a direct violation of the FTC's rules and regulations. They clearly state, MLM incomes should be generated through retail sales to customers, and not by "helping others succeed".

Matthew said, "Anyone who takes advice from someone who fails at something will get advice from that perspective."

Translation: Joe failed at Amway, therefore his opinion is invalid.

Not only is this inaccurate, but this type of ad hominem attack does not help people see the "success" point of view.

Matthew said, "When I played high school football. Hundreds of kids would show up, most of them claiming that they were gonna start on the team. It didn’t take long and dozens didn’t show up day after day until we were left with people that got committed. Most didn’t get a starting position and many never got to play. If someone wants to, I mean really wants to succeed at something should they go get advice from the guys who quit? Or those that persevered."

Interesting story, let's unpack this.

First, dedication is irrelevant in Amway because it has a nearly 100% failure rate according to their income disclosure statements.

Second, you should get advice from people that quit and people that stayed. Listening to only one side or the other is inherently bad because it gives the opportunity for bias to sway an opinion. Feel free to check out my post about MLM and Echo Chambers (http://themlmsyndrome.blogspot.com/2017/12/mlm-and-echo-chambers.html)

Third, your example with football excludes very important reasons for failing. Some people may not have genetic gifts like others, some people may get hurt, some people may not be able to afford it, some people may have been bullied or harrassed. To simply say, you shouldn't listen to people that didn't stay with football because they quit is too simplistic, and often can be wrong as they may have very good reasons for quitting (quitting isn't the same as failing).

John Doe said...

Matthew said, "This business is not for everybody."

Correct, and arguably, according to the Amway statistics, it is only for a fraction of 1%.

Matthew said, "And I personally will never attempt to talk someone into it... why? Because they will not do it."

Wait...what? Isn't that the purpose of you giving someone your opinion? Why else would you waste your time talking about Amway? This is completely bizarre!

Matthew said, "A person convinced against their will is still unconvinced."

I haven't found any Amway proponent using guns to recruit. This line is comically ridiculous.

Matthew said, "I will also not try to keep someone from quitting, because even if they remain they’ve mentally quit."

Not only is this line weird, but it is the exact opposite of what every MLM sponsor and leader preaches. They are constantly saying, "The next meeting could be your big breakthrough", "I was about to quit, but then I stuck it out just a little longer and look at me now". In fact, most people try to stop people from quitting because it helps to build character. As the old expression goes, "When the going gets tough, the tough gets going", but you are saying you would do the opposite?

Matthew said, "Amway is a company that manufactures some products and has developed partnerships with dozens of other companies."

Totally irrelevant, and the second part of your sentence is factually incorrect. Nobody carries Amway products in their stores, but Amway makes money when they sell you products from other retailers.

Matthew said, "They handle logistics and compensate people who create volume."

Translation: They ship you products and give you rebates when you spend money.

The rebates tend to be far less than the percentage mark-up on Amway and other company's products. You would be better off going to the retailer directly.

Matthew said, "Not all business teams and/or individuals who attempt to build the business are the same. And many have drastically different methods of building it."

Again, not true. Most, if not all, are taught to recruit, or as you put it, "help others". Nobody in Amway (from my experience after an "FED"), suggested you should focus on selling products at retail to customers. This is a bold faced lie.

Well Matthew, not only did you not actually share what the perspective was like from a person with "success", but you typed a bunch of meaningless and fallacious BS, and proved absolutely nothing. Not only would I not take your position on Amway seriously, but you confirmed Joe's position. Congratulations.