Thursday, January 17, 2013

What Is Your Amway Business Worth?

Many many people see the Amway plan, sign up as an IBO in the hopes that Amway income will help them fulfill their dreams and that they will walk away from their jobs at a young age and collect lifelong residual income while walking the beaches of the world. Sadly, most IBOs will never even sponsor a single downline or see a net profit. These IBOs may continue in the business for a while but will eventually quit when they see the writing on the wall. Someone mentioned on another forum that people who want to work 2-5 years and do nothing thereafter are probably lazy and therefore, are not capable of achieving in anything, much less in Amway. I agree with this but even hard working eager IBOs generally make nothing or lose money.

But wait, you're an "independent business owner". So instead of quitting, why not sell your Amway business? I wonder if any IBOs actually think about what their business is worth. I mean a diamond in theory could sell their business and live large happily ever after right? Here's some food for thought. Why are there instance of diamonds quitting or resigning from Amway? Why would they just quit when they could either walk away and collect an income "forever" or sell the business? I mean do IBOs ever stop and think about this? It is an honest and serious question that should get some consideration. Honestly, why would a diamond not walk away if they could collect income forever?

I believe diamonds quit and resign because their business is worth very little or nothing. And most Amway businesses do not even generate a net profit. For IBOs who are seriously pondering on this very important message, try looking up this topic in Amway's rules. There are very complicated steps to be taken when selling your Amway business as each person upline must be offered ownership (To the best of my understanding). This process can go on for a long time and the attrition of your business could render it worthless before you can find a buyer, if you have a buyer at all. Also, if you quit, the downline in your group would be surrendered to the immediate upline anyway. So why would your upline want to buy your business?

So IBOs, I ask you. What is your business worth? You don't own your downline. They are independent owners like yourself. You should not have inventory, employees or some warehouse storage complex. Aside from the ability to add downline volume to your own, your Amway business likely has very little value in the real world. So IBOs and prospects, think about it for a minute. What is the value of your Amway business? Ever see anyone sell their Amway business or actually walk away from Amway to collect residual income? Do you ever wonder why crowns and double diamonds are still working, even beyond retirement age for people with jobs?

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

The nature of this business is such you have to keep working it. Practically nobody makes money at it. Hence a biq quit rate so you need to keep recruiting within your group faster than people quit. Thats why few diamonds last. The ones that do are smart enough to find a number of leaders in their group who bring some sustainability and keep the group growing. Not easy to do. That explains why success rates are low and for the most part not sustainable.

Muzik_dude said...

I am glad you wrote about this. I have wondered the same exact thing. Why in the world are these double diamonds still going to every function/conference and speaking, and talking about still needing to work aspects of their business? If it is truly supposed to be residual income, they should have to do nothing at all and still earn what they say they do. This clearly is not the case. I came to my senses after only three months of being involved with Amway. I wish many of the IBOs who have been in for years and are not making any income would stop to think about this and come to understand this. If diamonds and double diamonds are still having to work to maintain what they have, how much more will those just trying to reach platinum level have to work to maintain their "business". Not to even mention that even once getting to platinum, most still come out at a loss after everything is factored in, from what I understand.

Joecool said...

Muzik_dude,

Thanks for the comment. I believe there are cases where the diamond hardly makes any money at all from Amway, but because you are recognized by Amway at the highest level, a diamond pin might not have a diamond business. Thus these diamonds can only make money by speaking and doing functions. I believe that's why they never quit, even when they appear to be retirement age. It is also why these diamonds likely will never "walk away" from the business.

Christ Servant said...

This is very true, looking back my own experience. The last function I went to a few months back, Larry Winters was the main speaker (who has to be in his 60s). They kept on talking about how he was doing this out his own kindness to us to come and speak. They said things like he could have easily been at home taking it easy and living it up, but instead he decided to take time out and come and serve us. After reading this post and thinking about it some more, I don't think that was the case. I bet he "needed" to be there speaking so he could to rake in some more cash from that weekend.

Anonymous said...

From what i see in this business you need to get to diamond to make some money. That takes abot 7 to 10 years. Then you make on average according to amway abot 150 k gross. So after taxes,expenses and living costs you might retain say 50 k. So to buy your million dollar home will take 20 years. For all that you need to work full time 7 days a week. I just cant see the interest. Now you could i suppose double your income on tools. But its still not worth the effort

Anonymous said...

Do the bonus calculations and you will see a diamond does not earn that much. Amway says 147 k gross. Take away travelling and taxes. Not enough left to retire on. And im sure most diamonds have difficulty requalifying so income can reduce fast. Doesnt seem a great deal

Anonymous said...

Hay i just started 2 weeks ago and had my first home meeting. I am so scared to let my family and friends do this and we lose something. What i need to know is why they would say you cant lose anything if so many people tell me you can

Anonymous said...

The reason is that to keep the pyramid going they need new people coming in at the bottom. Hence the plan say great wealth and no losses to attract people. I estimate average losses would be between 5 and 10 k annually.

Anonymous said...

Hello christ servant. Larry winters seems to have 4 diamond legs so i expect he might not need to work much. He took ten years to go diamond and 10 more to get double diamond. Im sure that was 7 days a week. So he gave his life to it. Not convinced its worth it.

Anonymous said...

Ps to my comment on winters. He seemingly got hit with back taxses of 3.2 million for 1996 to 2007 so i guess he earned 2 or 3 times that amount over those years.

Joecool said...

They say you can't lose because Amway has a money back guarantee on certain things. You need to make sure you read about all the parameters. Also, the "tools" are not sold by Amway and may not carry the same guarantee.

Joecool said...

That's if Larry Winter's diamonds are qualifed. If they're not he might not be making much.

Joecool said...

How come Larry didn't keep up with his taxes?

Anonymous said...

Could be there is a lot of cash floating around from tools function and meeting. Hence a temptation to overlook some of this in declarations and to over declare deductibles like luxury travel and hotels.

Anonymous said...

@ Joecool I got sucked it at 18 and whne you calculate the $ spent on P.V, tools, functions and events I lost well over 50k in 7 years and never had one year I mad more then $1000. Its possible to make good money you just have to be REALLY good with peole and sometimes be manipulativ. Im am still an IBO but not active and my upline still times a year tries to push the functions on me. One more point, I thought these guys had my back and were my freinds lol thats a joke! I got layed of and was having some finacials problems and took some time away from the BIZ and not ONE called. When I got married 10 IBOs RSVP'd to my wedding and no showed and never called or sent a card. This was very hurtfull but at least I know where they stand. Just be careful and think through everything

ExAmbot said...

Larry made millions from tools @BWW. Definitely more now that he has his own tools scam. But he is doing it all out of the goodness of his "achoo" heart.

ExAmbot said...

Anon,

I am an ExAmbot after 7 years. I former emerald wrote a book you need to read. It's a free download. Go to Amthrax blog, scroll down on the RHS look for merchants of deception. It's a quick read and very insightful. I highly recommend it for you. Let us know what's your take on it.

Anonymous said...

to everybody on here speaking stupidity i will guarantee you are a slave to your job. You will grow old and tired and "enjoy" 2 weeks a year on sad, cheap, pathetic "vacations"..... enjoy wasting your life idiots.

Anonymous said...

wasting your time in amway--and you're not the idiot?

Joecool said...

And paying to play Amway no less. 2 weeks a year is more time off than people wasting their time in Amway.

Ryan Bell said...

Larry Winters has 17 diamonds on his team. I go to his sons Info Session. Larry Winters makes about $3000 from his double diamondship a day; that info is straight from his son, Stephen Winters (a ruby). They do not have jobs and he does not work in his business anymore except for the occasional show at big conferences, like Summit.

Stephen Winters is retired (ruby), his wife has never had a job in her life. Stephen's brother (I forget his name), is on the same path with his wife.

It is true, you must treat it like a real business and know real marketing, or at least build up to that point throughout training, but you can retire. You don't have to sell to customers after you hit platinum (7500 pv). At that point, you just maintain the people under you to ensure you hit at least 7500 each month.

Joecool said...

Some people do make money in Amway but it is not like a real business. You get people excited and sell them tools, regardless of whether they make money or not. That's how Amway diamonds make their money.

Jason said...

You are an idiot. If you knew anything about anything you would realize that they go to functions (and hold functions) to teach the new generation of IBOS how to build the business. They aren't "working" like you are at your job. They do what they want, when they, how they want, where they want. I think 4 or 5 weekends out of the entire year is worth it to bring on the newer generation. You can justify all you want as to these people's "why" or motive, but until you actually spend a couple hours with one, you have absolutely no idea. That's why you quit, lost, gave up on yourself, choked, fill in the blank. Think about it, you gotta be pretty special to fire YOURSELF!

Joecool said...

Diamonds go to the functions because they need the money to pay their bills. If they are teaching IBOs to build the business then they should be fired for incompetence. These diamonds want you to think they do what they want and when they want to but the fact is they are working hard trying to maintain their groups.

Do the math, diamonds cannot afford a lifestyle full of excess. Some of them might live comfortably but they aren't as rich as they want you to believe.

And yeah, I did spend time with my upline diamond. He had a middle class home with middle class cars.

Mike Hill said...

None of you actually know what you are talking about do you? 😂👌🏼

Anonymous said...

Hey, Mike Hill --

Who the hell are you, and how much money have you lost in Amway so far?

Anonymous said...

Ryan Bell explained the situation to Joecool and I believe Ryan Bell. Larry Winters makes over $10,000 USD per month. Month after month after month. Are you making that much at your job? Especially month after month after month? I don't believe you do. But I believe what Ryan Bell is saying. I also believe what Larry Winters has achieved. His lifestyle is testimony to that achievement.

But of course, Joecool doesn't get it and starts the same old tired... but it is not like a real business, you get people excited and sell them tools, you get people excited to pass their money onto you... blah blah blah and more blah blah blah.

Joecool, you have earned the monikers people call you.

Joecool said...

Nobody knows if Larry Winters and/or his downline are stil qualified and what they earn from Amway. I could turn around and say I make $10,000 a month from blogging and nobody could prove or disprove that statement.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 6:30 PM --

So you "believe"?

I guess you've attended plenty of those stupid Amway functions, where the diamonds run around screaming "DO YOU BELIEVE? DO YOU BELIEVE?"

Anonymous said...

Hold on there Joecool!

You say that nobody knows if Larry Winters... That implies that neither does Amway. So, how is Amway generating profits for Larry Winters then? Spare me the excuse, "it's the tools!" Yes, Larry makes money from tools because it's his right but that's not where most of his income comes from. Else why would Amway keep Larry onboard if he wasn't having a successful Amway business to begin with yet preach his non-existing success in Amway? But you see nobody knows... Enough of that crap, seriously.

Do you know Larry Winters makes over $10,000 USD per month? No, neither do you because you just started your argument like this "Nobody knows if Larry Winters and/or his downline..." Nobody means nobody. That means you too. So why are you running off your mouth then? Saving people from what? From that which nobody knows? LOL

To Anonymous at 6:30 PM,

I have gone to three functions only where Diamonds run around screaming "DO YOU BELIEVE? DO YOU BELIEVE?" and yes, I DO BELIEVE! You didn't believe, still don't believe and that's why you didn't do anything worthwhile with your business. But just like Joecool you believe in running off your mouth and that's why you run off your mouth.

Joecool said...

I don't know what Larry Winters makes and neither does any of his downline. They only know what Larry Winters tells them. I doubt that he's provided proof of his business income (business, not personal income).

And let me add a second twist here. $10,000 a month for someone who's self employed is middle class income when you factor in business expenses, medical insurance, savings for retirement, etc.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 10:32 AM --

OK, fine. So you admit that you're a cultic nut-case who functions on emotion rather than on the perception of facts. Go ahead and "believe."

How about telling us -- in precise figures -- how much money you have lost in Amway so far?

Anonymous said...

Sound of crickets chirping.

I guess the guy who "believes" doesn't want to tell us how much he's lost in Amway so far. Maybe he's embarrassed to say.

Anonymous said...

I haven't lost anything in Amway. Is that making you envious or something?

Joecool, I'm not sure where you're going with that twist. You say that Larry makes $10,000 a month which is middle class income. Larry must be living in a wealthy country then, I'm not at that level yet. But Larry is living in USA and USA is not even close to that level. The middle class income level averages more like $40,000 per year. That's a far cry from $10,000 a month! Or maybe you meant to say that the middle class income level averages $10,000 per year in which case my stats are wrong. If the middle class were making $10,000 a month... that's $120,000 per year... imagine!

Also, I'm not sure where you're going with the assertion that since Larry makes $10,000 a month he has business expenses, medical insurance, savings for retirement, etc. That sounds like an incomplete sentence to me. You mean to say that he can't afford it in which case you surely can and ought to teach us how you make $20,000 a month rather than $10,000 like Larry. You see my point?

Actually I misread what Ryan Bell said and I quoted the wrong figure all this time. It is $3000 per day which equals to about $90,000 per month so a far cry from $10,000 per month. My mistake, sorry. $100,000 per month is soon coming! In that case maybe you need to show us how you make $200,000 per month so to not be like Larry, unable to pay for business expenses, medical insurance, savings for retirement, etc!!!

Anonymous said...

Even if you meant to say that the difference left after the business expenses, medical insurance, savings for retirement, etc. from the $10,000 per month Larry is making, that's still not going to bring Larry's income and living down to the level of middle class income. But since I misquoted Ryan Bell, that is even more so not the case. $90,000 per month is a far far far cry from middle class income even after all those expenses you mention and then some more.

Joecool said...

First, I never said Larry made $10,000 a month. I said I don't know. Fact is you don't know either. He might make more or less. Problem is he makes that money by scamming thousands of people.

But let's take that hypothetical 10K a month.

30% taxes rate = 3000
Medical insurance = $1200 (Family of 4)
Business expenses = $1500 (Based on 1 function a month plus hotel, etc)

That's about 5700 in expenses.

That leaves Larry 4300 to pay his rent/mortgage. And nom if his income is about 10K per month(gross), he's not buying homes and cars in cash.

Then factor in food, household products (100PV) utility bills, etc.

How much do you think is left over for first class vacations, traveling, and maybe even savings and investing for the future?

And let me add this is. Most of a diamond's income is in the form of an annual bonus so a diamond's monthly income can be quite small.

Anonymous said...

Ok, so you admit that you don't know. That begs the question what is it that you're doing then by running this blog. What's your real aim? Spare me the excuse that you're just warning people from getting scammed. That's not what you're doing. The fact that you don't know and you openly admit to it that tells me that you've got an agenda. It's easy to be a blogger, anyone can say anything even if they don't know what the hell they're talking about but they go on as if it's ok. Since neither do I know then we can conclude that none of us know what the hell we're doing. So we spend time bickering back and forth and what do we solve in doing that? Since none of us know then what the hell are we doing? Seems to me that Larry is winning onto something since he's not into that kind of stuff and that's what makes me want to learn from Larry and do what Larry does.

Besides, how is it exactly that Larry scams thousands of people? And why are you assuming that Larry needs medical insurance? Making $90,000 per month sure doesn't call out for you to pay for medical insurance, you can just pay a top doctor and get better care than the care the status quo gets. That's $90,000 for you and I corrected the misquoting I made. Why don't you correct yourself too once you've been clearly made aware of it? You still use the $10,000 figure. Got an agenda, feeling guilty to mention $90,000 per month because that throws your argument off or what?

Joecool said...

What the heck are you babbling on about? YOU made the claim that Larry Winters makes $10,000 a month. Go ahead and prove it. If not, you really have no idea and he might be making nothing. I just used $10,000 as an example to show that someone making that kind of money is not living a millionaire "diamond" lifestyle.

I blog because my experiences and knowledge of the business has provided valuable information. Especially since Amway folks discourage prospects from seeking full disclosure about the business.

It's ironic that you claim I can say anything on this blog. While that's true, I'm not making any claims. I'm sharing what I learned and experienced in Amway. It's been YOU who's making questionable claims. You claim Larry is winning and doing well. The truth is you have no freaking idea how Larry is doing financially.

How does Larry scam people? By telling them that they need tools to succeed in Amway. That is a lie. If he makes income claims that cannot be verified, that I also a scam and might be in violation of FTC rule 5(a).

Now you're mentioning $90K? What's that? More fairy tales? Come back when you have facts. I saw the documented financials of a triple diamond and that person made $40,000 a month. Despite that large income, he filed chapter 7 bankruptcy.

Go figure.

Anonymous said...

Joe, this Anonymous at 9:21 AM is just an infuriated Amway freak who is boiling mad that your blog is having such a negative effect on the Amway racket's ability to recruit new IBOs.

The argument over Winters' alleged or supposed income is purely a diversionary tactic by this guy. He neither knows nor cares how much Winters makes per month. All he cares about is making a lot of noise to cover up the basic irrationality of his "belief." He's already admitted that he is "a believer."

Let me ask him the following question: If you think Joe Cool's blog is mistaken in its facts or misguided or dishonest, why the hell do you bother coming here to argue? Why not just be a good Amway Ambot and go hustle up more recruits at Taco Bell or your local shopping mall? Isn't that what your up-line tells you to do?

I'll tell you why you're here. YOU'RE PISSED OFF. You're an Amway fanatic, and you can't stand it when somebody questions or ridicules your fanatical commitment to that rotten and corrupt company.

Also, there's another thing: If you think Winters makes $90,000 per month in Amway, let's see you prove it with something other than your mouth. Let's see your facts and figures on paper. Or are you afraid to ask Winters to show you his tax return?