Tuesday, February 9, 2016

Amway's Broken Dreams?

One of the things Amway promoters use to entice prospects into joining is to get them to think about financial dreams and goals that they would like to accomplish. After all, who wouldn't want to be retired at age 35 and walking on the exotic beaches of the world? Or who wouldn't want to live a life of leisure and excitement with unlimited barrels of cash rolling in to finance all of the fun and frivolity? Of course most people get excited by this. Sports cars, mansions, jetskis, exclusive vacations are all the lure of what Amway promoters use to entice recruits to sign up.

Sadly, the things that people get excited by, or the things that people join for, often become less accessible because of people's involvement in Amway. Not necessarily due to Amway itself, but because of the leach organizations that attach themselves to the Amway business. These organization will promote their materials as the key to success in Amway, but in reality, these organizations reap handsome profits while basically bankrupting the downline IBOs. What is also sad is that the system does not deliver the success that is promoted. Less than one half of one percent even reach the platinum level, which is allegedly the level where you break even or make a small profit. According to stats issued by Amway, .26 reach platinum, or about 1 out of 400 IBOs. That's nothing to brag about is it?

During my tenure in the business, uplines taught us to buy all the materials. Books, standing order tapes/cds, functions, and other materials. In fact, in addition to standing order, upline wanted IBOs to purchase an additional 5-7 tapes or cds each week. Afterall, you should be listening to new material daily right? In fact, upline wanted people to "invest" or spend all of their income on these materials. In an open meeting setting, a diamond said that your family could skip a meal to get another tape/cd because the information was so valuable that you might hear the one thing that propels you to diamond. Almost as if buying a tape/cd was like some lottery ticket.

And sadly, some IBOs did go "all in". They bought tools like there was no tomorrow. In my crossline, there was a couple who went bankrupt and a couple whose home was foreclosed. Now was this financial difficulty all due to their involvement in Amway? I don't know, but certainly, buying hundreds of dollars of materials on a monthly basis can certainly contribute to someone's financial problems. And these IBOs did this on upline's advice. Thus upline advised this even when they likely knew that these IBOs were in financial difficulty. If they would tell you to starve your kids, then surely they will not be concerned about your other issues. I also sat in a function where a diamond taught about how long you can put off paying a mortgage before foreclosure would occur. Probably so people could go in hock to attend a major function.

It is a sad thing indeed when uplines will try to sell you dreams. What's worse is when they are actually selling you broken dreams.


Anonymous said...

It's sad to see you have a negative view. I full well know that upline doesn't get any profit if their downline isn't making profit, unless they have good customers. Amway pays the upline as an incentive to go help their downline. So they don't make money unless their downline makes money. The problem is, people start treating Amway as a hobby rather than a business. It doesn't matter how many audios or books you read, if you aren't actively building the business and creating a business team - putting in actual hard work - then of course you end up spending money instead of making it. My upline would never suggest me to put countless dollars into educational supplies if they knew I had bills to pay. They would give me some of the supplies they have because they are there to help. And functions are super important to attend because it lets people see and understand the big picture. People make their own decisions based upon their dreams on a daily basis. Apparently you just didn't have big enough dreams to stick through and fight for.

Unknown said...

The saddest part, is that these people would never listen to someone on the streets telling them to skip meals and neglect mortgage payments in order to hear the next big thing in a business. Employers would never encourage you come to a seminar after a major surgery or in place of a family event (wedding, funeral, etc). Yet people in Amway will go out of their way to over charge and inconvenience the life blood of their organizations.

I can picture someone now with a degenerative skin disease that needs immediate treatment or it could lead to cancer saying "Let's reschedule because my upline says I need to go fly to the Caribbean for a month and scrape barnacles off of his 76 foot yacht and then scrub his floors with my toothbrush". The doctor of course would reply, "I don't think you understand the severity of your case, you will probably die if we don't proceed with treatment now." The Amway member would respond, "You have an employee mindset, and can't possibly understand what it means to follow your dreams and own your own business." The doctor says, "You are in my private practice...". To which the Amway member would state, "You are still working for the man, you have to have a schedule, you have to pay terrible taxes,and you will never be free." The doctor finally realizes this person is probably better off dying.

Joecool said...

Your post is false. Upline can earn a lot of profit from downline who are profitable. If upline sells a function ticket to an IBO, the upline makes a nice profit even when the downline IBO nets a loss because of the business expense.

I did put in the work. I was 4000 PV with eagle parameters and I didn't have a net profit because of the tools. When I figured out the scam, I quit.

Joecool said...

I remember attending a function called "family reunion" in Portland. An IBO was edified because he had stage 4 cancer but instead of spending hi time with his family, he was out trying to "build the business" so he could better his family's future.

Sounds nice and rosy but the reality is that IBO was just draining his bank account instead of spending quality time with his family and friends. Really sad.

Anonymous said...


Unknown said...

It sounds as though someone is still in honeymoon phase and believes upline has their best interest at heart. The upline is there for support, encouragement, and above else dream building. There is no possible way the upline would have an incentive to excise money from the downline on tools, seminars, and propaganda books. Nope upline is pure, christian, ethical, selfless, and shoot let's just go ahead and say Jesus Christ's reincarnation. Nothing but light at the end of this tunnel...

Joecool said...

Spot on.

Joecool said...

It's amazing how the upline leaders can actually get people to trust them above someone's own family and friends. They pitch lies and many IBOs bite hook line and sinker. It's scary.

Anonymous said...

Was his name Heisenburg? You'd have to be nuts to think this way!

Joecool said...

I'm sure he honestly believed that he was doing what was best for him and his family, not knowing upline was scamming him.

Anonymous said...

Man you have been at it for years Joe Cool. I remember coming across your stuff early on. I don't doubt that you had a bad experience. Sorry to hear that. Here is mine. I joined in 2011. Was working as a lawyer at the time and wanted another income as I have an interest in property and investing. Amway seemed like a smart way to building something else long term. Starting out I got mixed responses. That was normally based off how people or their friends had been approached in the past. I didn't find any negative comments towards the prouducts. My wife took a little while to come on board as she loved Estee Lauder but eventually got into the Artistry. She started marketing it a bit further down the track and has made some good retail money now from doing so. So 4 years down the track, we have just qualifed our 2nd month at 7500. In September we made $3900 + another $800 in retail and in November we made $6200.

Over the course of our journey we have always retailed products as well so that has covered any of our conferences, audios and book costs. I have tallied up that those components cost about $1400 a year. All optional of course but we find it very helpful in keeping us focused and growing. My income at my job has gone up too around 30% which is handy considering I had hit a bit of plateu as I am 30. That job income plus our soon to be platinumship is going to see a good return. I see you are pissed about the tools issue. Dude, its optional. If you were under pressure to buy that, I am emphatic. Our team doesn't ram it down your throat. It's just not the style here. I am pretty sure Amway makes every organization now put optional on it to stop any issues like that. Ever thought that your experience is not every experience people will have? in Asian countries there isn't any tool system. Just all product training.

I am curious, what do you do for work now? and another question. Why do you spend so much of your energy posting and blogging about all this? I would have thought you could do something more productive this far down the track. Also, was your experience in the 1990's? I hope you can find some closure on all of this. It is like the internet is your therapy bed. Btw, I am not trying to be crtical of you, I just know in the time I saw you posting a few years back, I have built the foundation of a successful platinum ship. All the best Joe. Cheers, Dominic

Joecool said...

Anonymous, if you are doing well in Amway and doing it ethically, that's all good. But seriously, is your group buying cds and attending functions, even if it's "optional". But I will challenge you to do this. Figure out how your downline is doing in terms of bonuses versus expenses. I would have to guess that most of the lower tiered IBOs are losing money month after month. And because of the MLM hierarchy, it will always be that way. It has to because of the way the payment structure is shaped. There will always be around 100 downline IBOs to 1 platinum. That ratio doesn't change.

I'm not pissed and I spend very little time on this blog. Most of my articles are re-prints that I update and edit and post. And that's because the issues in Amway today are pretty much the same that existed years ago.

I am aware of Amway operating differently in other countries but if there are tools companies like WWDB, then there is some scamming going on. I call it like I see it.

How am I doing? Well, I started investing and saving at the age of 23. After college I worked 2 jobs and my second job income was invested into stocks back in the late 1980's. After I left my second job, I started Amway as a close friend got in and said it was easy so I tried it. Luckily my involvement in Amway didn't affect my saving and investing so now I own a home in Hawaii, mortgage nearly paid off and I have accumulated a nice nest egg to retire with. All told, I will retire a millionaire when factoring in my home equity and my investments. I also have a decent pension coming so I'll be retired at age 55 and will be living very comfortably, all without Amway.

Anonymous said...

Joe, the picture is becoming clearer.

Amway is getting really nettled by your blog. So they have encouraged certain people to come here and try to answer you. That's the reason for the two Anonymous posts of February 9. It's also why you had a series of pro-Amway posts on your last thread about being "negative." And notice that one of the Anonymous posters here gently suggests (what else?) that you should "seek closure." The translation of that phrase is: "Please don't attack Amway anymore!"

Amway now realizes that your blog (and that of Anna Banana and others) constitutes a real threat to them. So in desperation they've broken their rule about not allowing IBOs to read anti-Amway stuff on the internet.

Congratulations. You're kicking ass!

Joecool said...

Thanks for your comments. I know some new IBOs come here and get ticked off and claim I am somehow attacking Amway but the truth is that this blog is a way for me to share my experiences with information seekers.

If Amway is an up and up company, they would welcome the information that is available. IBOs get mad because they see it as negative even if it's true.

That's when the Amway defenders attack the messenger instead of the message.

Anonymous said...

So I just had a meeting with my sponsor and upline about the monthly cost of being a IBO. So according to him. Its like $56 a year to join Amway and $99 for the sample pack. Then on the WWDB side its $50 a month for their services (ie website, accounting, buying books at cost), $25 a month for unlimited audios, $37 a month for Communikate, 4 "mandatory" annual functions at $125 plus travel and lodgings a year, then $300 on Amway products.

So that is $112 just in the monthly fees to WWDB not counting the $500 in major function tickets. Now if I buy $300 and get $150 from someone else for the minimum pv per month I will pocket a cool $100 in profit. That's not counting the month I "have" to go to a major function that will put me into a -$25 for that month. Not counting the traveling cost. Or the price of the books "at cost". Now I see why the drop out rate in this type of business is so bad. I mean it seems like a easy fix. Cut out these "training" companies, sell the products at a discount and make money in volume instead of just the few IBOs they sign up. I was first excited about this until I did some research (as requested by the upline) and found out the Amway products are so over priced. I was like how can I convince my friends and family to buy from me when even I wouldn't buy the products at that price. And then I realized they want you to signup your friends and family so they too at buying the training crap from them. I have come to realize my heart and passion are just not into it. So i have a feeling when i tell me friend that soon we wont be friends anymore. And that is the sadist part of it all.

Joecool said...

I'm glad you did an analysis of the math. What you may not face factored in is for major functions, unless you live near the function, you have a long drive, or you may need to fly, and pay for a hotel. They also have monthly regional seminars that cost about $50.

And as your analysis showed, you are losing even if you are able to sell $150 worth of products, which is extremely difficult.

You might sell some stuff to family and friends for a short while but because of the prices, your friends and family are unlikely to have long term product loyalty.

If you are a capable seller, there are many other ways you can make extra money instead of Amway. And you won't need paid training to do it.