Thursday, July 14, 2016

The Amway Business?

There are some folks who try to sell the Amway opportunity as one that works in a good or bad economy. The pitch might be that people need household products such as soap or cleaners even in a good or bad economy. While that may be true, in a tough economy, people will be looking for the bottom line, or the cheapest price. That is why Walmart is wildy successful. Walmart's slogan is "live better, save money". Being that Walmart sales exceed 400 billion dollars, it means that one day's sales exceeds Amway's annual sales. Clearly, price is important to consumers. Amway apologists like to cite that not everyone buys a Porsche or a Lexus. While that is true, it is ridiculous to think Amway products are a Porsche or Lexus compared to other household products, and that consumers in general, even care about issues like that. What do IBOs do? Brag that their laundry soap is better than their neighbors?

Another silly tactic that some Amwayers employ is to drop names such as Robert Kiyosaki, or Warren Buffet, or Donald Trump. The fact of the matter is Robert Kiyosaki makes him money from Network Marketers, not from Network Marketing. Or, he's selling the IBOs books and seminars. Warren Buffet and Trump apparently own MLM companies, thus they also profit FROM network marketers and not from distributing the good themselves. It's a silly argument and anyone with some discernment can see right through it. I even see rumors spread by some IBOs that various movie stars or celebrities are involved in Amway. The truth is that there are some celebrities that are involved with Amway, but typically, they are paid to endorse Amway rather than being rank and file IBOs.

That brings us to whether Amway is a viable business opportunity. Let me put a disclaimer that people who may try to sell goods without participating in the training system might have a chance to make a few dollars, but these folks are quite rare. Many people get drawn into going diamond and chasing a dream. It is why you see big functions and conventions of people chasing dreams that likely won't come to pass. The typical IBO doesn't do much, if anything at all. Out of those who actually put in effort, a fraction of 1% might go platinum and an even smaller fraction of 1% might make some money. Amway's own numbers and the plan shown by many IBOs confirm this. Amway says the average "active" IBO makes just over $100 a month. We also know that it takes about 100 IBOs or more to form a platinum group. We know that many IBOs do little or nothing. That already provides a clear picture that only a small percentage of IBOs can ever reach that platinum level where you might net a small profit, depending on your business expenses.

Factoring in the Amway reputation and you have a very tough business opportunity. Now Amway itself may have done good things, but IBOs themselves have ruined the Amway name. They have lied or tricked people into attending recruitment meetings, or they have called people broke or losers, and even now, there is an IBO who frequents this blog, claming to be in BWW, that slings muds and name calls this blog author. For these reasons, Amway is a very tough business to succeed in, regardless of your level of effort.


Anonymous said...

Joe, this is the basic contradiction or internal absurdity of Amway. When they are recruiting you, they say "It's easy! Just duplicate your up-line! You'll be rich within two to five years!" But when they come here to defend Amway against its critics, they say "It's HARD! You have to work your ass off! It's not a get-rich-quick scheme!"

Which is it, guys? Is Amway easy, or is Amway hard? Not one Amway freak has ever had the balls to answer this question directly.

Let's wait and see if one of them shows up here to try. But let's not hold our breath waiting.

Joecool said...

Amway is a lot of hard work so you can lose money! Yeah, once in a while, someone eloquent and good at lying will come along and go diamond, but the vast majority of people will make nothing or lose money. If you invest in tools and functions, you are all but assured of losing money.

Anonymous said...

love for you to do a dissection of this video.

Anonymous said...

IBO's are Imaginary Business Owners:

They run a business that has:
1. No physical existence
2. No control of its own.
3. No definite long term objectives.
4. No real customers.
5. No name of its own but amway.

Imaginary Business Owners are:
1. Not even business owners because of the characteriatics above.
2. Hoping, Dreaming and Imagining that they will achieve diamond success.
3. Not really at their own, they have to report to their new taskmasters (upline)
4. Are students attending a pseudo-education consisting of meetings and functions.
5. those with onion-skinned, crab mentality and uber-hyped beings.

Joecool said...

Amway businesses have little or no equity. All you own is your spot on the pyramid.

Ben Dover said...

That has to be one of the saddest excuses for a plug video I have ever seen. Not only is not original (Tyson Zahner is much better at this junk and has a nearly identical video), but his use of the English language is a joke. He calls Amway a scam by accident in his first sentence in the description box, and at one point in the video he describes how your life will change "traumatically" when listening to the tapes and not drastically (what he meant to say) which is actually accurate.

I really hope you don't look to people like this for advice, as they have no idea what they are talking about, are making a bunch of nonsense lies, and utilizing the popularity of Amway to drive people to their video. If he had any ability to make a video, write a script, or think of an original way to generate leads, he wouldn't have 32 hits and no comments (except for mine). The guy is a total loser.

Joecool said...

Ben Dover,

Not sure if you saw it, but the ding dong who made the Amway video also made one about why you should quit college.

Joecool said...

Ben, he also made a BS video about why you should quit college and do Amway and a few others.

Ben Dover said...

Ugh, I just went to this guy's website, and he makes me look like a genius. The guy has so many issues, starting with his inability to understand what quotations mean as he uses them randomly and on himself. He acts as though he is talking in the third person about himself and he has an almost godlike knowledge of wealth accumulation. Most of his website is unfinished, including the "Get Started Here" button, which leads to a blank page.

One of my favorite botched lines from his summary was, "Once you understand these three, you can create wealth in almost anything you do. It’s like having the mysid touch. And everything you do turns to gold”". He began this quote two paragraphs up, and did not use the quotations correctly. Also, his wonderful use of spell check seems to have failed as he doesn't know how to spell MIDAS...I actually got confused and thought he was talking about something I should look up...I gave him too much credit.

I am also running a check on some of the people who allegedly support his teachings. It looks like all of the testimonials were written by the same person, because the spelling and tone is the same. This guy looks to be a moron and a fraud...very dangerous combination.

Ben Dover said...

I also looked into Aaron Goldsten's Facebook page, and it makes no mention of his website or this particular side business of teaching people how to accumulate wealth. Instead, it shows him as the owner of a different company, which I thought was going to be for children. However, his reference to Animal House (I'm guessing the movie) suggests that he is into hosting adult fantasy events...he also makes no mention of his other "businesses" such as his car detailing business, his restaurant, his kiosk at the mall, or any other business...

It didn't take much for me to realize he was full of crap from his stupid YouTube video, but this guy seems to blatantly lie and is probably a thief. I will update this with more information if I hear back from any of the people who allegedly wrote testimonials for his training.

Joecool said...

Ben, I left some comments on his youtube page. It shows what an indoctrinated IBO can think and say.

Ben Dover said...


I surprisingly heard from one of his testimonial people on Facebook. The man says that he has heard of Aaron Goldsten, but initially suggested that he did not approve the use of his picture on his website, and also is not confirming that he wrote this particular testimonial.

I have never investigated a situation like this before, and do not know how to proceed or not proceed. If anyone has any experience or can give any feedback on how to handle this guy's shenanigans, please let me know and I will proceed accordingly.

I would like to thank the Anonymous who brought up this guy's bogus YouTube video, because it shows that IBO's (current or former), can be just as harmful as Amway and other MLM's themselves. Hopefully this shows the importance of doing your due diligence and researching your interests!

Joecool said...

Yes, the guy is spewing BS. I left comments on his youtube but he has not yet responded.

Ben Dover said...


I heard back from a second person on the testimonial page, and this person was a lot more vague about giving consent or not. He did mention that Aaron did some marketing for him and constructed a website, however Aaron seems to have turned him into a financial follower.

It would seem Aaron has a different business which helps people with website design and probably some SEO (Search engine optimization), or SEM (Search Engine Marketing). Either way, it has nothing to do with his website and his offering of financial advice from a 15 year entrepreneurial success.

The person did confirm that he never got any financial advice on wealth management from Aaron, and will also consider contacting him to be removed from his website.

Ben Dover said...


I can't believe it, but a 3rd person has come forward from the website, and she did confirm that she gave Aaron permission to use her name, photo, and the testimonial (although I believe he wrote it).

She confirmed that he does have the business running promotional parties for clubs, and has a small following of people. She also confirmed that he has taken some college, but may or may not have a degree. She has met Aaron twice in person, but did not say what connection she has to him.

She confirmed that she would need more background information on Aaron before listening to his wealth management advice. She also did not have great English, and may be an easy target for a person like Aaron.

This has led me to believe that Aaron has embellished on his expertise as an entrepreneurial success, and at best has a small success with running a marketing business. I need more information, but for the time being, I can assume he is not an expert in this field. He is trying to take advantage of the manipulation techniques he has learned from his self-help tapes and is probably a dangerous individual to listen to for business advice.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ben, I am the anon who posted that video. I first came across this blog by googling amway scheme, after that I bookmarked it.

I typically google amway scheme a few times a week just to see what bubbles up. I saw this guys video and I knew he was spewing hot garbage. I fell for this type of stuff a long time ago and can spot it in a few minutes.

I wanted to share it here because I trust joecool and his work.

If you follow the link in the YT video you can go to a website where he has another video, equally as bad. Then he will offer to sell you his super secret black box method to make people work for you and enjoy it for get this, only seven dollars. Yep, not 49.99, not 39.99 not even 17.99 but 7 dollars so get a copy today.

This guy, you don't have to use a real email address to get to his super secret video, just put make up an email template and you'll get redirected to his secret page. Seems like a very low bar to entry, I wonder does he actually collect those email addresses?

Nevertheless I doubt there's anything that we can do against him except publicly shaming him.

I would say that I doubt anyone with real world business experience would fall for amway but thinking about past articles on this blog where joecool talks about his upline the physician, I can understand. Although I don't know what the education level is like in St. Louis but he speaks like stopped practicing speaking a long long time ago.

Anonymous said...

I just watched this guys college scam video but geez. If anything this guy would scare people into going to college. Thanks for writing those comments on his videos joecool.

And speaking about his website, it is totally a mess. The sad thing is I was sucked into amway at a young age by videos like these. I just got online, fell for the hype and wasted a few months of my life.

Luckily I am not stupid but I will spend tons of time looking under every rock for answers and you know what. The answer that I found that worked consistently is hard work.

There are no shortcuts to getting rich but I can see a lot of people falling for this type of video, especially when you see someone who seems mildly mentally retarded and you might think, if he can do it [faking it, but you don't know that] then I can do it as well.

The ultimate shortcut to life is that there are no shortcuts in life.

Ben Dover said...

I wrote a couple of comments on the college episode, and sadly believe that he is polished enough to where there could be some actual damage done.

The other thing that I have learned with this day and age, it's not necessarily how good of a speaker you are, but if you are speaking to people who are looking to hear what you have to say. This means, people are looking for their reality to be validated by someone, and it can literally be anyone. It doesn't matter if they don't know the person's background, why they are saying what they are saying, or if they are even saying what they think they are saying (duping people by suggesting Amway isn't a scam, but really generating leads for his own business materials). He is using a crappy bait and switch technique on people who are too closed minded to look for genuine facts or proof...and that makes him highly dangerous.

This is the exact same crap that got Dr. Oz in trouble, because he is a man with actual credentials, and he was pushing nonsense herbal healing crap to make a quick buck. He at least had some accreditation, but he still did a crappy thing that landed him on Capitol Hill having to testify that these herbal pills weren't actually "magical".

These people need to be held accountable, even if it seems stupid to 90+% of the people watching.

Joecool said...

Ben, I'm having difficulty with the reply function on my comments section but thanks for checking up on his youtube page and making comments.

Anonymous said...

One of the flaws of recruiting downlines is that downlines WILL BE your competitors. Instead of being paid more bonus for recruiting more, those bonuses gets shared as downlines recruits more.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ben

If people are only looking to validate their own opinions, then let them. They'll feel the sting of Amway's success soon enough.

Joecool said...

Amway success?