Monday, November 28, 2016

AmwayTools?

I recently saw commentary which I thought was very significant about the Amway "educational" system. This system is not run by Amway, but the for profit motivational systems such as BWW, WWDB, LTD, N21 etal. In many cases, these systems are touted as the key to an IBO's success. Unfortunately, there is no unbiased evidence that I know of to suggest that these materials do anything to help an IBO progress towards their business goals. Furthermore, these materials cost money. If upline didn't succeed until downline succeeds, woudn't they want everyone moving along, tools or not? As far as I know, uplines don't offer much help unless you are on tools. Do they rally want your success or do they simply want your money?

Also, what is interesting is that IBOs do not have a indivudual training plan. Uplines are often refered to as "mentors". I disagree. A mentor would work with someone one on one and make an assessment as to how to train someone. That isn't what happens for most IBOs. IBOs receive generic information from the diamonds and are expected to know what information to use and what not to use. Some refer to the information as a "buffet" where you pick and choose what you want and need. But how can an inexperienced prospect or IBO know what is useful or not? The label "mentor" sounds like total BS to me. There is little individual attention given to IBOs.

Instead the upline will generalize all of their downline and tell them that that books, tapes/cds and seminars is how they should learn. That eliminates many people from succeeding already. Many people do not learn in these types of learning environments. Many people have difficulty in picking up information from a tape or cd. Some upline may not be good at transfering information to downline in this manner as well. After all, what qualifies someone to teach? They signed up before you and achieved some level of success, even if you can't verify that they are currently qualified.

But still, upline convinces the masses that a one size fits all teaching system. They may also encourage some people to overspend on these materials, without any regard to an IBO's finances or progression in the business. Techinically, a sponsor is supposed to train any downline without cost, yet the downlines literally spend millions to get "trained" but very few people actually make a net profit.

I wonder what sincere efforts your uplines make to train and to mentor downline? Flying to a seminar where they might make $100,000 for a weekend doesn't seem like much personal attention when perhaps over 10,000 may be in attendance.

These training materials might be the key to success. But that success is much more likely to be enjoyed by the people who are profiting by selling these materials, and not those who are purchasing them. That much I'm certain of.

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

I attended meetings and seminars for a few years back in mid to kate 90's. What I learned from the seminars and tools I purchased helped me in life and business outside of being an IBO.

NO, I did NOT WORK the SYSTEM as taught, but used the concepts in my JOB and in Life with people I met either personally or in business and attribute much of my success to the tools, teaching and friends I made attending the training and support from my uplines.

You get out of it what you put into it!

Am I in anyway sad or disappointed I spent money to purchase tools, seminars and travel?, NO!

Maybe some of the programs you mention and uplines were just in it for themselves, but my upline including David Duncan, Brad Duncan, Greg Duncan & Ron Puryear along with their spouses were awesome. I personally met and had individual or small group time with each.

I now after 25 years still use and practice concepts they taught me.

Anonymous said...

Tapes, cds? No mention of the communication system utilized by the smartphones of today? Is the information backed by the facts of today or of a negative opinion?

Joecool said...

Greg Duncan? That's the guy who filed chapter 7 bankruptcy some years ago. Maybe Amway doesn't pay as much as they claim? If you got something out of their teaching, that's good for you, but you still got ripped off in terms of what you paid for to succeed in Amway.

Andrei D. said...

yes, you have to pay for the educational materials as they are not offered by Amway, but it'seems not a mandatory thing. maybe you compiled the article not knowing all the facts. it's a business and I really don't know any business that offers consultancy for free.

I am using the system for some years and I'very seen results both in my own private business and also in the Amway one.

Joecool said...

The materials are not mandatory, but what is a new person to think when upline says "tools are optional, but so is success"? How can those Amway tools help you when they don't actually offer real business advice?

Anonymous said...

@joe. I'm just curious. I see you ran a 4000 pv business with eagle perimeters. That's a pretty significant level in the business and you didn't make any money? How much money did you make at that level? I'm roughly around there and the money is pretty good

Anonymous said...

@joecool. Hello joe. I'm just curious. I see you ran a 4000 pv business with eagles perimeters. That's a pretty significant level in the business and very profitable. You didn't make much money? I'm roughly around the same level and I think it's pretty good money. How much money did you make?

Mike Evans said...

Idk about anyone else but my Upline recommended the tools. They never said I have to and they never said my success depends on them. They said that they have gotten a lot out of them so they suggested I plug into the system as well. So far I agree with them. I've learned a lot and have been able to apply some of the ideas to both my amway business and on a few occasions my personal life as well. Yes it is mostly generalized because everyone is unique. They can't make an effective system sticky focusing on one technique because of that fact.

I do agree that it is kind of expensive but then again I have no idea what goes into putting a conference together either.

Joecool said...

Anonymous @ 9:11

I made money but on my upline's advice, I spent it on more tools and functions because I was told that it was the key to making my business grow. If you're at the same level and not being advised to purchase more and more tools, I'd like to know who your WWDB diamond is because I don't believe your story.

Joecool said...

@Mike Evans,

The tools don't work. There are fewer WWDB (USA) diamonds now than when I was an IBO 20 years ago.

What does it take to put on a conference? It costs maybe $20 to $25 per person to set up a conference in a convention center to arena. They charge maybe $125 or $150 per person so the people on stage basically split up the profit.

If the venue holds 20,000 people, there might be close to or more than 2 million dollars in profit from that one function. Split that up with the 4 -5 diamonds who speak and now you can see where mansions and sports cars come from.

Anonymous said...

I feel sorry for you for your lack of understanding about the business opportunity , first of all they are not "Amway Tools"... they are approved professional developement tools provided by different organizations(not sure if you know lot of other motivational organizations offer similar "tools").
Secondly, you tell me any business which don't use tools...
Thirdly, Tell me what is the role of tools, in general?, if you have to plough a field, doing by hand, using bulls or using tractor .. which "tool" will you prefer?

Lorikeets said...

For the folk who claim they learned some great life skills in Amway, Amway did not make those lessons up they have taken them from other sources and used them. Amway can't be credited with being the origin of such ideas even if they were the medium. Learning something helpful doesn't legitimise Amway because it came from elsewhere. As usual this is a distraction from the fact that people spend and lose great amounts of money for Amway not to mention the harm it causes in personal relationships where opinions differ on Amway. As an analogy I might learn how to shoot a gun from a criminal but that doesn't vindicate or absolve everything dodgy about that person.

Joecool said...

Anonymous @3:19

Your battle over semantics is telling. They are "tools" used to build an Amway business are they not? Other businesses that have "tools" pay for their employees to have tools. In the Amway scam, the IBOs pay for their training despite not being paid by Amway. Yes, you may need a plow for a field, but you don't need a new plow every week.

Anonymous said...

They are used to build your business (can be helpful in any business if you understand the value they offer) ... Amway offers the platform.
Yes they pay their employees(more of those are getting replaced by machines as entrepreneurs leverage tools)... so you agree owner "own" the tools... what's wrong with books and CD/audio of succesful entrepreneurs as tools for the business.
You do need to build your team of entrepreneurs hence plough(aka tools) helps to sharpen their mindset, so they can think differently than those "programmed" on left side of cash flow quadrants.
Learn how we are driving entrepreneurship across the globe , read the AGER for more details.
https://www.neweurope.eu/article/rethinking-employment-micro-entrepreneurs-future-eu/

Joecool said...

How much net profit have you made in Amway because of the valuable "tools"? I bet you have a net loss as we speak.

Anonymous said...

IBO's who build their businesses ethically and within guidelines, leveraging the platform Amway provides the required information to their respective country(countries- as some have/may expand it globally ), none of your business to know,except for your own.
Remember this as it will be helpful in life in general, you cannot bet on others, you can only bet on yourself... in the wise words--
"You can't make someone else's choices. You shouldn't let someone else make yours."--Colin Powell

Mrmaximum said...

@ Anonymous November 29, 2016

Wrong. Ever heard of the movie 'Supersize Me?' Ever heard of the book called "Fastfood Nation?" Wanna know what those snippits of media were about? The VAST success of fast-food and ONE particular purveyor. That would be McDonald's, and they were talking about the DETRIMENT of their success if one wished it measured.

Read that part again.

That they were SO successful, it may come to a DETRIMENT to the market in which they compete. Tell me, do you see that in Amway? Sure, you see a lot of critics, but where, pray tell, is the unwavering and unassailable success from which you so boldly speak? By the way...my former upline Diamond is still working this business like a fiend, the Amway friendly websites still call him a Diamond but he isn't. My former upline Platinum who had gone to Ruby is still building this business despite over 17 years of building Amway full time.

Hold a second, and how is Amway Global doing in terms of growth? Aren't they down by double digits across the world?

One of my favorite songs is Live and Learn by Joe Public. Just going to quote one line from the song.

"The only Fool that you're foolin' is the fool that is you!"

Keep trying, you're only proving Amway Critics right.

Anonymous said...

Notice how these Amway freaks always end their post by putting up some link to a tedious piece of pro-MLM propaganda?

When they do this, all they are saying is "If you don't believe me, just read this bullshit." And of course it will contain all the usual fake jargon about "pro-suming" and "leveraging" and "partnering" and "micro-entrepreneurs."

Anonymous said...

@Joe, what was your business structure at 4000 PV?

Joecool said...

I sponsored 12 people myself and my downline legs had downline. My group was approximately 40 people, but not all were gung ho business builders.

Anonymous said...

They are not needed to build the business. There are zero business building lessons, zero accounting tips, zero mention of anything useful on the tools. It's all a bunch of rah rah bullshit.

Anonymous said...

Ok, how many legs in width were Active?

Anonymous said...

Also, where did majority of your volume come from? Was it down just 1 or 2 legs? Or....