Now that the internet is so accessible, information about Amway flows freely and some of the dark secrets of the Lines Of Sponsorship have been exposed. Also, as times passes, it is becoming clear that a bunch of upline leaders are major hypocrites, apparently motivated by greed and personal gain. I believe this trend will continue as well. It appears that these same leaders have managed to get around Amway's accreditation guidelines, which appears to be toothless.
Many upline leaders appeal to their audience by talking about how the Amway business can save marriages. I remember sitting in an audience when some diamonds spoke about how couples who build the business have a less than 2% divorce rate as compared to the national figure of 50% or so. One major reason cited was the financial stress that J-O-B people had (not enough cash). But now we see some upline diamond leaders getting divorced and in some cases, no explanation is offered, as if the missing spouse was beamed up by aliens. Many leaders simply revise history or deny that certain events happened. Some leaders just pretend nothing happened and it seems like IBOs are very forgiving, thus no real accountability has ever been applied to upline leaders.
People also found that some diamonds make a lot of money from tools. When I was an IBO, we were told very clearly, that nobody made profits from tools. That profits went back into the functions to make them better and cheaper. (Has any function gotten cheaper in the last 12 years?) In fact, when I was an IBO, I was told that WWDB was a non-profit entity, which was a bold lie. I will admit that upline later changed their story to WWDB was a for profit company, but nobody kept profits, thus the channeling money to make events better and cheaper. Agsin, when have events ever been cheaper. Now I don't think that events should be run pro bono, but the leaders should be transparent about it rather than the lies and shroud of secrecy that often accompanies talk about tools and tool income.
Some upline leaders also spoke of how utterly stupid it was to take out a loan as the banks make so much money off the interest. We now see some of these very leaders having their homes foreclosed! Some of these diamonds were the very ones who said their pay cash for everything, including their homes and cars. It is not in the hopes for these folks to suffer, but it is exposing the lies and deception that leaders used to entice IBOs to join and to purachse tools that were supposed to help IBOs to attain the same lifestyle as the diamonds. However, rather that more diamonds, I believe WWDB and some other LOSs, at least in the US, have fewer diamonds now than 15 years ago. Where's the evidence of success?
What's even more amazing is how the hypocrisy of some of these leaders are exposed to downline and the downline simply ignores it and continues to follow blindly without an explantion or questioning the leaders after the incidents are exposed.
IBOs should ask their leaders questions when these kinds of issues arise. And you should think twice if the answer you receive is silence or deflections.
Friday, September 29, 2017
Thursday, September 28, 2017
Getting Rich In Amway?
One of the things my Amway upline used to say was that Amway is not "get rich quick". I suppose they say this because most people would more likely think scam if they promoted it that way. But when you stop and think about it, 2-5 years, build it right and you have willable, residual income for life while walking the beaches of the world? That's not get rich quick? Or is it more of a disclaimer so that the opportunity doesn't sound "too good to be true"? One thing is for sure, even if uplines tell you that it's not get rich quick, it's obvious that IBOs think they will eventually get rich from the Amway business, even if it's not quick.
What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a net profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either. I still see Crown Ambassadors and double diamonds working the functions and open meetings or dying while still on the job. Nobody wants to "walk away" and collect income forever? Maybe these diamonds and big pins are working because they have to??
I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 2-5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person, not to mention that segments of your business can collapse at the drop of a hat.
Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point. The only ones who are getting rich from Amway are the owners of Amway and a select few who profit from your Amway purchases and your purchases of tools and training material.
What most IBOs don't figure out quickly enough, is that they are unlikely to even make a net profit, let alone getting rich in Amway. How many of these people exist? Where are all of these retired Amway IBOs who built a business in 2-5 years and then walked away from their business and will be collecting a significant residual income for many years to come afterwards? I don't know of a single person who has done this and none of the Amway defenders and zealots I have encountered over the years has been able to supply this information either. I still see Crown Ambassadors and double diamonds working the functions and open meetings or dying while still on the job. Nobody wants to "walk away" and collect income forever? Maybe these diamonds and big pins are working because they have to??
I can acknowledge that Amway is a business opportunity and will definitely take some work to be able to achieve something. But thinking realistically, what business could you actually be able to walk away in 2-5 years and not work again? More than likely that business doesn't exist, whether it's Amway or not. Say you opened a conventional business. There wouldn't be many scenarios where you could walk away after a number of years. The business would still require work and maintenance. But for some reason, people are mislead to believe that you can do this in Amway where there is a high attrition rate and where your business can only expand by person to person, not to mention that segments of your business can collapse at the drop of a hat.
Sadly, many of the people who are attracted to the Amway opportunity are often young people looking to get more out of life. They are often ambitious but may lack a means to gain wealth, thus the appeal of the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, these nice young people are more likely to end up channeling their hard earned dollars into standing orders and functions which will almost guarantee that they end up with a net loss. The bottom line is that not only is Amway not get rich quick. The more likely scenario is that your involvement with Amway will very likely be not getting rich at all. A net loss is the most likely result. I challenge anyone to try and prove me wrong on this point. The only ones who are getting rich from Amway are the owners of Amway and a select few who profit from your Amway purchases and your purchases of tools and training material.
Wednesday, September 27, 2017
Amway IBOs Make More Excuses Than Dollars?
I've been a Amway related blogger now for a number of years. I've debated with Amway apologists and they ultimately resort to excuses and/or personal attacks when they run out of defenses for Amway. Food for thought, when you have to make excuses about why your opportunity isn't a scam or a pyramid scheme, that should already make you stop and think for a minute. The easy excuse is to say that "my group isn't like that". Yet I see testimonies and statements that indicate to me that things have not changed, and have never changed. even in all the years since I left the Amway business myself.
Even the product's prices need to be justified. That there is concentration or other factors that really make Amway stuff a better value. Strange how that better value doesn't seem to translate further once an IBO realizes that there is no residual income at the end of the rainbow. Many IBOs don't seem to mind paying more for Amway stuff when they believe that they will one day walk the beaches of the world while more money than they can count will keep rolling in. When the dream fades, so does the desire to purchase these awesome products. If not, with tens of millions of former IBOs, Amway sales should be through the roof after all these years. But it hasn't. Amway recently reported a huge decrease in sales and Amway's sales have decreased about 25% in the last 3 years. Amway apologists were bragging about Amway's 11.8 billion in sales about 3 years ago but they are dead silent now that they decreased to 8.8 billion in Amway's last fiscal year. Maybe market saturation is finally catching up?
Amway also reported recently, that they have updated their average IBO income and it is still miserable. A clear explanation as to how and why they calculated the "average income" was not given. So the debate continues. Critics analyzing and predicting how and why, and Amway apologists making excuses and justifying their position. Why not just be transparent and end the debate once and for all? I think most people know the answer. The bottom line for most is whether or not they make a net profit. For the vast majority of IBOs, especially the ones on the system, the answer is a net loss. It is predictable and easy to conclude. The 6-4-2 or any other version of the compensation plan clearly shows that very few people can make any decent money. If a platinum IBO typically has 100 or more IBOs, that is your answer there. It should be noted that a platinum might not even be very profitable if they are sold out on buying system tools.
So IBOs and Amway defenders, are you making money (net profit)? Or are you just making excuses?
Even the product's prices need to be justified. That there is concentration or other factors that really make Amway stuff a better value. Strange how that better value doesn't seem to translate further once an IBO realizes that there is no residual income at the end of the rainbow. Many IBOs don't seem to mind paying more for Amway stuff when they believe that they will one day walk the beaches of the world while more money than they can count will keep rolling in. When the dream fades, so does the desire to purchase these awesome products. If not, with tens of millions of former IBOs, Amway sales should be through the roof after all these years. But it hasn't. Amway recently reported a huge decrease in sales and Amway's sales have decreased about 25% in the last 3 years. Amway apologists were bragging about Amway's 11.8 billion in sales about 3 years ago but they are dead silent now that they decreased to 8.8 billion in Amway's last fiscal year. Maybe market saturation is finally catching up?
Amway also reported recently, that they have updated their average IBO income and it is still miserable. A clear explanation as to how and why they calculated the "average income" was not given. So the debate continues. Critics analyzing and predicting how and why, and Amway apologists making excuses and justifying their position. Why not just be transparent and end the debate once and for all? I think most people know the answer. The bottom line for most is whether or not they make a net profit. For the vast majority of IBOs, especially the ones on the system, the answer is a net loss. It is predictable and easy to conclude. The 6-4-2 or any other version of the compensation plan clearly shows that very few people can make any decent money. If a platinum IBO typically has 100 or more IBOs, that is your answer there. It should be noted that a platinum might not even be very profitable if they are sold out on buying system tools.
So IBOs and Amway defenders, are you making money (net profit)? Or are you just making excuses?
Tuesday, September 26, 2017
The Value Of Your Amway Business?
Many many people see the Amway plan, sign up as an IBO in the hopes that Amway income will help them fulfill their dreams and that they will walk away from their jobs at a young age and collect lifelong residual income while walking the beaches of the world. Sadly, most IBOs will never even sponsor a single downline or see a net profit. These IBOs may continue in the business for a while but will eventually quit when they see the writing on the wall. Someone mentioned on another forum that people who want to work 2-5 years and do nothing thereafter are probably lazy and therefore, are not capable of achieving in anything, much less in Amway. I agree with this but even hard working eager IBOs generally make nothing or lose money.
But wait, you're an "independent business owner". So instead of quitting, why not sell your Amway business? I wonder if any IBOs actually think about what their business is worth. I mean a diamond in theory could sell their business and live large happily ever after right? Here's some food for thought. Why are there instance of diamonds quitting or resigning from Amway? Why would they just quit when they could either walk away and collect an income "forever" or sell the business? I mean do IBOs ever stop and think about this? It is an honest and serious question that should get some consideration. Honestly, why would a diamond not walk away if they could collect income forever?
I believe diamonds quit and resign because their business is worth very little or nothing. And most Amway businesses do not even generate a net profit. For IBOs who are seriously pondering on this very important message, try looking up this topic in Amway's rules. There are very complicated steps to be taken when selling your Amway business as each person upline must be offered ownership (To the best of my understanding). This process can go on for a long time and the attrition of your business could render it worthless before you can find a buyer, if you have a buyer at all. Also, if you quit, the downline in your group would be surrendered to the immediate upline anyway. So why would your upline want to buy your business?
So IBOs, I ask you. What is your business worth? You don't own your downline. They are independent owners like yourself. You should not have inventory, employees or some warehouse storage complex. Aside from the ability to add downline volume to your own, your Amway business likely has very little value in the real world. So IBOs and prospects, think about it for a minute. What is the value of your Amway business? Ever see anyone sell their Amway business or actually walk away from Amway to collect residual income? Do you ever wonder why crowns and double diamonds are still working, even beyond retirement age for people with jobs?
But wait, you're an "independent business owner". So instead of quitting, why not sell your Amway business? I wonder if any IBOs actually think about what their business is worth. I mean a diamond in theory could sell their business and live large happily ever after right? Here's some food for thought. Why are there instance of diamonds quitting or resigning from Amway? Why would they just quit when they could either walk away and collect an income "forever" or sell the business? I mean do IBOs ever stop and think about this? It is an honest and serious question that should get some consideration. Honestly, why would a diamond not walk away if they could collect income forever?
I believe diamonds quit and resign because their business is worth very little or nothing. And most Amway businesses do not even generate a net profit. For IBOs who are seriously pondering on this very important message, try looking up this topic in Amway's rules. There are very complicated steps to be taken when selling your Amway business as each person upline must be offered ownership (To the best of my understanding). This process can go on for a long time and the attrition of your business could render it worthless before you can find a buyer, if you have a buyer at all. Also, if you quit, the downline in your group would be surrendered to the immediate upline anyway. So why would your upline want to buy your business?
So IBOs, I ask you. What is your business worth? You don't own your downline. They are independent owners like yourself. You should not have inventory, employees or some warehouse storage complex. Aside from the ability to add downline volume to your own, your Amway business likely has very little value in the real world. So IBOs and prospects, think about it for a minute. What is the value of your Amway business? Ever see anyone sell their Amway business or actually walk away from Amway to collect residual income? Do you ever wonder why crowns and double diamonds are still working, even beyond retirement age for people with jobs?
Sunday, September 24, 2017
Defending Amway?
Recently, every once a week or two, someone leaves some kind of humorous, yet somewhat rude comments. These comments may claim I'm lying, without identifying what I lied about. Or they will claim I'm wrong, without citing what I"m wrong about. Often, the comment is made and the person making the comment never returns to explain. Sort of like a "drive by shooter". It would actually be good for someone defending Amway to actually make a good case as to why they think Amway is a good business opportunity because the actual facts, many of which come directly from Amway, indicate that Amway is a crappy business opportunity and likely some kind of scam.
We know that uplines can make significant profits from selling CDs, functions and other training materials so of course they will tell downline that these items are the "key" to success. But to say it at a function with thousands of people is a scam in my opinion, because that person hasn't analyzed everyone's individual business to be able to make that claim. I've heard upline compare a function to a buffet, where you take what you want and go with it. That's total BS. Most IBOs have no business experience and wouldn't know what to take and what to leave behind at a function.
Amway must be defended because in my opinion, the vast majority of people figure out that it's a crappy business opportunity and blogs like mine, provide practical and real life experiences that are detrimental to Amway prospects. That's why the income disclosures, the prices of products and other things must be justified. Things such as many IBOs do nothing and that's why the average income is low. Well I might add the Amway "millionaires" are also a part of that average income and the average is still low. The high prices are justified by "quality" or "concentration", but only Amway people consider Amway products to be premium and only Amway biased people think Amway's price per use is a good deal. For example, Satinique shampoo costs like $8-10 for 10 ounces and I can get shampoo at Walmart for $3 for 24 ounces. But Amway folks twist it so it seems that Amway is still a good deal. The vitamins are the worst bargain. You can find equivalent vitamins to Nutrilite for a small fraction of the price.
How about actually making money from Amway? THe vast majority of IBOs on the system, lose money because of the system. Amway defenders use lines like "everyone who succeeded was on the system". My answer? Tens of millions made nothing or lost money because of that same system. I can counter by saying every lottery winner bought a ticket. Just because there's a few winners doesn't mean Amway or the lottery are good ideas, but at least buying a lottery ticket doesn't take up a lot of time and effort like Amway.
So defending Amway is futile and only Amway supporters buy the guano that defenders use to defend Amway. I have yet to see anyone use a good argument with evidence that Amway is a good business opportunity. And I have yet to see even one example, with actual evidence of someone who built Amway, went diamond, "walked away" and collected large residual income while they lounged on the beached of the world. Defending Amway is as futile as building an Amway business. That is something you can bank on.
We know that uplines can make significant profits from selling CDs, functions and other training materials so of course they will tell downline that these items are the "key" to success. But to say it at a function with thousands of people is a scam in my opinion, because that person hasn't analyzed everyone's individual business to be able to make that claim. I've heard upline compare a function to a buffet, where you take what you want and go with it. That's total BS. Most IBOs have no business experience and wouldn't know what to take and what to leave behind at a function.
Amway must be defended because in my opinion, the vast majority of people figure out that it's a crappy business opportunity and blogs like mine, provide practical and real life experiences that are detrimental to Amway prospects. That's why the income disclosures, the prices of products and other things must be justified. Things such as many IBOs do nothing and that's why the average income is low. Well I might add the Amway "millionaires" are also a part of that average income and the average is still low. The high prices are justified by "quality" or "concentration", but only Amway people consider Amway products to be premium and only Amway biased people think Amway's price per use is a good deal. For example, Satinique shampoo costs like $8-10 for 10 ounces and I can get shampoo at Walmart for $3 for 24 ounces. But Amway folks twist it so it seems that Amway is still a good deal. The vitamins are the worst bargain. You can find equivalent vitamins to Nutrilite for a small fraction of the price.
How about actually making money from Amway? THe vast majority of IBOs on the system, lose money because of the system. Amway defenders use lines like "everyone who succeeded was on the system". My answer? Tens of millions made nothing or lost money because of that same system. I can counter by saying every lottery winner bought a ticket. Just because there's a few winners doesn't mean Amway or the lottery are good ideas, but at least buying a lottery ticket doesn't take up a lot of time and effort like Amway.
So defending Amway is futile and only Amway supporters buy the guano that defenders use to defend Amway. I have yet to see anyone use a good argument with evidence that Amway is a good business opportunity. And I have yet to see even one example, with actual evidence of someone who built Amway, went diamond, "walked away" and collected large residual income while they lounged on the beached of the world. Defending Amway is as futile as building an Amway business. That is something you can bank on.
Friday, September 22, 2017
Amway Success, A Fraction Of 1%?
Many people consider the platinum level in Amway as a significant achievement in Amway. While it may be nice to achieve that level and gain recognition from the Amway corporation, I will point out that there was a study done in Wisconsin where the attorney general analyzed and found that platinums on average, lost money. The study is somewhat dated, but I will also point out that today, there are MORE expenses associated with running an Amway business than before. (Voicemail, books, functions, standing orders, shipping). I would guess that it's possible that platinums lose more today than when the Wisconsin study was done.
A typical platinum group often has 100 or more downline IBOs. Thus a logical conclusion is that less than 1% of IBOs can reach that level. It is also, apparently rare to maintain that level. Factoring in people who quit, one can conclude that only a fraction of 1% ever reach platinum. Amway.com also confirms this as they state that .26% of IBOs reach the Gold level. That's roughly 1 in 400. My former upline diamond had 7 frontline platinums in his heyday. Actually, 6 of them were ruby level. None of them hold the platinum level today. In fact, I'm not even sure any of them are even in the Amway business anymore. So you have a less than a 1% chance of reaching platinum and then you are unlikely to be able to maintain that level.
What serious prospective business owner would even consider opening a real business where you have such a tiny chance of success? Even those who achieve platinum are likely to lose that level. If platinums cannot maintain their level, then it's easy to see why there are former diamonds as well. It seems that people are willing to take a chance on an Amway business because the start up cost is low. But what is the point of doing all of that when the chance of making money is negligible?
To compound the problem, many IBOs spend a lot of time and money building an Amway business that is unlikely to give them any return on their investment. I'd guess that the average serious IBO would spend $250 a month or more on tools and about $250 to $300 on Amway products. That money invested over a number of years in mutual funds would give you a much better chance of achieving some dreams. Even putting the money in the bank would make you better off than the vast majority of IBOs. A serious business owner would want to know their realistic chance of making money. For some strange reason, Amway prospects and IBOs seem to ignore this reality. They dream of only the best case scenario or what is possible. They seem to ignore what is likely.
It is because uplines are in the business of selling tools and distributorships. They are not truly interested in your long term sustainable success. If you don't believe me, stop purchasing standing orders and function tickets and see how much longer you are edified and given help from upline. Seriously, would a real business owner be interested in a less than 1% chance of success?
A typical platinum group often has 100 or more downline IBOs. Thus a logical conclusion is that less than 1% of IBOs can reach that level. It is also, apparently rare to maintain that level. Factoring in people who quit, one can conclude that only a fraction of 1% ever reach platinum. Amway.com also confirms this as they state that .26% of IBOs reach the Gold level. That's roughly 1 in 400. My former upline diamond had 7 frontline platinums in his heyday. Actually, 6 of them were ruby level. None of them hold the platinum level today. In fact, I'm not even sure any of them are even in the Amway business anymore. So you have a less than a 1% chance of reaching platinum and then you are unlikely to be able to maintain that level.
What serious prospective business owner would even consider opening a real business where you have such a tiny chance of success? Even those who achieve platinum are likely to lose that level. If platinums cannot maintain their level, then it's easy to see why there are former diamonds as well. It seems that people are willing to take a chance on an Amway business because the start up cost is low. But what is the point of doing all of that when the chance of making money is negligible?
To compound the problem, many IBOs spend a lot of time and money building an Amway business that is unlikely to give them any return on their investment. I'd guess that the average serious IBO would spend $250 a month or more on tools and about $250 to $300 on Amway products. That money invested over a number of years in mutual funds would give you a much better chance of achieving some dreams. Even putting the money in the bank would make you better off than the vast majority of IBOs. A serious business owner would want to know their realistic chance of making money. For some strange reason, Amway prospects and IBOs seem to ignore this reality. They dream of only the best case scenario or what is possible. They seem to ignore what is likely.
It is because uplines are in the business of selling tools and distributorships. They are not truly interested in your long term sustainable success. If you don't believe me, stop purchasing standing orders and function tickets and see how much longer you are edified and given help from upline. Seriously, would a real business owner be interested in a less than 1% chance of success?
Thursday, September 21, 2017
Amway Is Easy?
One of the reasons why upline and Amway presentations still manage to get people into the business is because the Amway opportunity is made to sound easy. Sure, the presenter of the plan might mention that it takes work, but prospects walking out of the meetings will get the impression that all they need is six, or that the task of going diamond is very manageable. It isn't until a prospect signs up and gets to work that he or she will find out how difficult it is to build an Amway business. In fact, the business in itself is not mind boggling, but overcoming the reputation issues that Amway has will doom most of the eager new IBOs.
Even seasoned IBOs who have been trained to counter attack people's objections about Amway will struggle when presented with the simple facts that Amway products are not necessarily the greatest and are not necessarily the best value. If this were true, Amway could move much more product simply by marketing these great products and selling them in stores. But since IBOs move and market Amway products for no salary and at their own expense, it's a great deal for Amway. I wonder what Amway sales would be if they did not count sales to IBOs for self consumption? Seems many of these IBOs will loyally buy Amway products while they are building the Amway business but that loyalty seems to fade once the dreams of early retirement and going diamond fades away.
One glaring problem that IBOs seems to ignore is how often platinums and high level IBOs like diamonds fall out of qualification. Yes, Amway has many new platinums, etc, but what about the people who worked their tails off just to end up falling out of qualification a year later? The income stops when your volume stops. There are countless stories of diamonds quitting or leaving Amway. IBOs should do some research and look for answers as to why this is. I think they would not like the answers. They will find that some diamonds are broke, in debt and struggling. In other words, diamonds are like the rest of the world, but have been elevated as special in the Amway world. Do you really think you can live a jetset lifestyle on 100K per year? Many people think $100K is great because they might earn far less, but $100K or $200K is really just a middle class lifestyle, and maybe less if the diamond is in debt because they show off a diamond lifestyle. Behind the smoke and mirrors of the diamond illusion, I think prospects would be shocked at how diamonds really live.
Amway may sound easy but the reality paints a very different picture. Go find out for yourself.
Even seasoned IBOs who have been trained to counter attack people's objections about Amway will struggle when presented with the simple facts that Amway products are not necessarily the greatest and are not necessarily the best value. If this were true, Amway could move much more product simply by marketing these great products and selling them in stores. But since IBOs move and market Amway products for no salary and at their own expense, it's a great deal for Amway. I wonder what Amway sales would be if they did not count sales to IBOs for self consumption? Seems many of these IBOs will loyally buy Amway products while they are building the Amway business but that loyalty seems to fade once the dreams of early retirement and going diamond fades away.
One glaring problem that IBOs seems to ignore is how often platinums and high level IBOs like diamonds fall out of qualification. Yes, Amway has many new platinums, etc, but what about the people who worked their tails off just to end up falling out of qualification a year later? The income stops when your volume stops. There are countless stories of diamonds quitting or leaving Amway. IBOs should do some research and look for answers as to why this is. I think they would not like the answers. They will find that some diamonds are broke, in debt and struggling. In other words, diamonds are like the rest of the world, but have been elevated as special in the Amway world. Do you really think you can live a jetset lifestyle on 100K per year? Many people think $100K is great because they might earn far less, but $100K or $200K is really just a middle class lifestyle, and maybe less if the diamond is in debt because they show off a diamond lifestyle. Behind the smoke and mirrors of the diamond illusion, I think prospects would be shocked at how diamonds really live.
Amway may sound easy but the reality paints a very different picture. Go find out for yourself.
Tuesday, September 19, 2017
WWDB IBO's Broken Dreams?
This is a repost of an article I did some year ago. This Amway IBO "named it and claimed it: that he would be retiring in November 2011. It's now years later. His blog no longer exists and "Shaun" has gone back to a normal family life. I wish he would have come forward with his testimony about Amway and WWDB but I believe he's one who joined, was on fire for Amway, ended up losing money and quitting but just went back t his life, sans Amway.
His former blog site: http://expeditionoftruths.com/tag/wwdb/
I've been following the journal of an IBO who is in the WWDB LOS. Essentially, I believe the dude is hard working and wanting the best for his family. The problem I see is that he has apparently fallen for the deception that was and continues to be taught by WWDB. Pro Amway folks have criticized Joecool because they say my experience is old and outdated. Yet, here it is on the journal of a current WWDB IBO, pretty much verifies that the same material taught in the late 1990's is still taught today (2011). The only difference I see is that the WWDB leaders are not lying about nobody making a cent of profit from tools. Although they have their own spin on that as well.
Ironically, his website says "Sto Pro Veritate", which means "I stand for the truth". I would guess that Shaun honestly believes what his upline says is the truth but his blog is littered with material that is dicey, but because his upline said so, Shaun believes. I was once there myself, but realized the scam after a number of months. Sometimes it's hard to discern because your sponsor or upline is often a friend or family member. They get you to agree on various issues to build a degree of trust and slowly build up your level of commitment. Shaun is a perfect example of this.
Basically, Shaun's wife got involved and eventually, Shaun also jumped in. The couple went 1000 PV in March 2010 and even posted copies of their checks. Nothing indicating further progress has been posted since. I would assume any new pin level would have been an article that was newsworthy on such a blog. Lately, there has been more mundane material, and Shaun does not allow comments on his blog anymore, which in itself is interesting. Shaun, in 2009, posted that why wouldn't someone want to work hard for 2-3 years and never have to do it again? 2012 is around the corner, about 3 years since he got started. Food for thought.
Some of the interesting things that can be found on the blog:
The couple plans to purchase a home in cash.
Denied that Greg Duncan (One of their mentors) had chapter bankruptcy issues
Amway/WWDB IBOs have a 2% divorce rate compared to 60% for the rest
Will be Double Eagle Rubies making $117K in 2011
Will be job optional in November 2011
Debt Free (Sold their home and cashed in 401K to get debt free)
Here's a recent quote: "We’ve got some pretty big dreams and today the dream of owning an aircraft was at the forefront. Don’t laugh, get your own dream!"
**Now let me say I wish Shaun and his family well. I hope he does succeed and is able to fulfill his goals and dreams, but not exclusively at his downline's expense. What troubles me is how the leadership at WWDB is apparently teaching him the same junk in 2011 I saw as an IBO in the 1990's. WWDB is filling his heart with false hopes and dreams that are unlikely to ever come to fruition. Even the miniscule number of people who do succeed in Amway, do so at the expense of their trusting downline. Seems that Amway accreditation did nothing to alter or shape the teaching of these LOS's. I will continue to follow his progress and hope that he will eventually see through the facade.
His former blog site: http://expeditionoftruths.com/tag/wwdb/
I've been following the journal of an IBO who is in the WWDB LOS. Essentially, I believe the dude is hard working and wanting the best for his family. The problem I see is that he has apparently fallen for the deception that was and continues to be taught by WWDB. Pro Amway folks have criticized Joecool because they say my experience is old and outdated. Yet, here it is on the journal of a current WWDB IBO, pretty much verifies that the same material taught in the late 1990's is still taught today (2011). The only difference I see is that the WWDB leaders are not lying about nobody making a cent of profit from tools. Although they have their own spin on that as well.
Ironically, his website says "Sto Pro Veritate", which means "I stand for the truth". I would guess that Shaun honestly believes what his upline says is the truth but his blog is littered with material that is dicey, but because his upline said so, Shaun believes. I was once there myself, but realized the scam after a number of months. Sometimes it's hard to discern because your sponsor or upline is often a friend or family member. They get you to agree on various issues to build a degree of trust and slowly build up your level of commitment. Shaun is a perfect example of this.
Basically, Shaun's wife got involved and eventually, Shaun also jumped in. The couple went 1000 PV in March 2010 and even posted copies of their checks. Nothing indicating further progress has been posted since. I would assume any new pin level would have been an article that was newsworthy on such a blog. Lately, there has been more mundane material, and Shaun does not allow comments on his blog anymore, which in itself is interesting. Shaun, in 2009, posted that why wouldn't someone want to work hard for 2-3 years and never have to do it again? 2012 is around the corner, about 3 years since he got started. Food for thought.
Some of the interesting things that can be found on the blog:
The couple plans to purchase a home in cash.
Denied that Greg Duncan (One of their mentors) had chapter bankruptcy issues
Amway/WWDB IBOs have a 2% divorce rate compared to 60% for the rest
Will be Double Eagle Rubies making $117K in 2011
Will be job optional in November 2011
Debt Free (Sold their home and cashed in 401K to get debt free)
Here's a recent quote: "We’ve got some pretty big dreams and today the dream of owning an aircraft was at the forefront. Don’t laugh, get your own dream!"
**Now let me say I wish Shaun and his family well. I hope he does succeed and is able to fulfill his goals and dreams, but not exclusively at his downline's expense. What troubles me is how the leadership at WWDB is apparently teaching him the same junk in 2011 I saw as an IBO in the 1990's. WWDB is filling his heart with false hopes and dreams that are unlikely to ever come to fruition. Even the miniscule number of people who do succeed in Amway, do so at the expense of their trusting downline. Seems that Amway accreditation did nothing to alter or shape the teaching of these LOS's. I will continue to follow his progress and hope that he will eventually see through the facade.
Monday, September 18, 2017
Amway "Winners"?
One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.
Friday, September 15, 2017
The Illusion?
One of the things my Amway upline taught us ad nauseum was that we needed to have faith in our business and in our upline. That we needed to believe that we were going to be successful. IBOs are told that they should act successful even if they are still working their way up the ranks in the business. It is why they ask (require) IBOs to wear suits and business attire to all meetings and functions. This is one of the weird quirks about the business in my opinion. I live in Hawaii and I remember a function they held in the middle of July in a high school auditorium and there was no air conditioning. I think my suit needed special cleaning because it was completely saturated with persiration.
Anyway, with this part of the year, soon there will be thousands of IBOs shuffling off to a function called dream night, or in some cases, winter conference. The tickets are about $60 to $80 and includes a dinner. What IBOs are often unaware of is that many venues will allow you to run these conferences for $20 to $25 per person. The rest of that ticket prices goes directly into your upline's pockets. Anyway, the dream night function will feature slide shows of mansions, yachts, jet skis, sports cars, fabulous vacations and other trappings of wealth.
What many IBOs don't realize is that this display of wealth is just that. There is no bonafide evidence to indicate that these diamonds actually own all of those toys and goodies. The diamonds probably won't verbally confirm it either, because these toys and goodies may not really be owned by them. It could be rented, or maybe some upline corwn ambassador may own the mansion, but IBOs will assume that these trappings of wealth are common once you reach diamond. As an IBO, I never actually knew how much a diamond really earned. I just assumed it was a lot because we were shown all of these goodies and just assumed all diamonds had these kinds of lifestyles.
If I posted a picture of a mansion and a jet and said I owe it all to my earnings as a blogger, people would cry foul, that I am lying or making things up. And they would be right. Well, I would guess that many diamonds are doing the very same thing if they appear on stage and implying that they have jets and mansions. As I said, someone may own a mansion and a jet, but to imply that this is a part of the typical diamond lifestyle is a stretch. The evidence is there. Some diamonds have lost their homes to foreclosure. My old LOS diamonds (WWDB) taught us that diamonds pay cash for everything, including homes. Now confirmed as a blatant lie. Who knows what else they may have misrepresented?
I ask IBOs and prospects who may be attending dream night, to watch with a critical eye. What is being implied with the display of wealth? Analyze if those goodies can be purchased with a diamond income ($150,000 plus some tool income). Ask yourself if this lifestyle is truly sustainable? Ask yourself if you can live with yourself if deception is a part of earning your diamond lifestyle?
Anyway, with this part of the year, soon there will be thousands of IBOs shuffling off to a function called dream night, or in some cases, winter conference. The tickets are about $60 to $80 and includes a dinner. What IBOs are often unaware of is that many venues will allow you to run these conferences for $20 to $25 per person. The rest of that ticket prices goes directly into your upline's pockets. Anyway, the dream night function will feature slide shows of mansions, yachts, jet skis, sports cars, fabulous vacations and other trappings of wealth.
What many IBOs don't realize is that this display of wealth is just that. There is no bonafide evidence to indicate that these diamonds actually own all of those toys and goodies. The diamonds probably won't verbally confirm it either, because these toys and goodies may not really be owned by them. It could be rented, or maybe some upline corwn ambassador may own the mansion, but IBOs will assume that these trappings of wealth are common once you reach diamond. As an IBO, I never actually knew how much a diamond really earned. I just assumed it was a lot because we were shown all of these goodies and just assumed all diamonds had these kinds of lifestyles.
If I posted a picture of a mansion and a jet and said I owe it all to my earnings as a blogger, people would cry foul, that I am lying or making things up. And they would be right. Well, I would guess that many diamonds are doing the very same thing if they appear on stage and implying that they have jets and mansions. As I said, someone may own a mansion and a jet, but to imply that this is a part of the typical diamond lifestyle is a stretch. The evidence is there. Some diamonds have lost their homes to foreclosure. My old LOS diamonds (WWDB) taught us that diamonds pay cash for everything, including homes. Now confirmed as a blatant lie. Who knows what else they may have misrepresented?
I ask IBOs and prospects who may be attending dream night, to watch with a critical eye. What is being implied with the display of wealth? Analyze if those goodies can be purchased with a diamond income ($150,000 plus some tool income). Ask yourself if this lifestyle is truly sustainable? Ask yourself if you can live with yourself if deception is a part of earning your diamond lifestyle?
Thursday, September 14, 2017
You Didn't Work Hard Enough?
One of the things Amway IBOs are taught is to blame themselves for is not working the business hard enough or not doing things just right, exactly as upline advised. Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. It's just that uplines want to be absolved from any responsibility so they teach downline that failure in Amway is their own (The downline's) fault. Upline is also quick to take full credit for any success, of course. Why shouldn't these same leaders be held accountable for their downline's results if their advice was followed?
The reason why hard work doesn't equal success is because an Amway IBO is basically a commissioned sales person. In commissioned sales, one can work hard for no reward and at times, little effort may reap large rewards. But in Amway, with a crappy reputation, Amway IBOs are dealt a handicap that most simply cannot overcome. Getting new people to recruitment meetings is hard enough, not even factoring in the abililty to sponsor others. When factoring in these tidbits, it's easy to see why uplines teach buy from yourself and selling is not needed. Buying from yourself seems easy enough and it allows volume to be moved. But after a while, how many "long lasting concentrated" products can you go through in a month's time?
The work involved is very simple. Sell products and get other IBOs (Sponsor) in your downline to be able to leverage your volume. Many IBOs work hard and attend all of the functions and do all of the steps as outlined by upline, but very few reap rewards and most quit when they realize that the system doesn't work. It is sad that on top of losing money, that IBOs are also taught to blame themselves for their demise. Where is the upline when IBOs bust their butts working hard and get no rewards? On top of that, to make it worse, uplines profit from selling training and motivation to their downlines. Why aren't they held acountable?
I've read comments by some Amway defenders wanting to sue Amway critics for a potential loss of business. But most critics, like myself are simply stating our experiences and opinions. Many of which are true and still happening today. So I will ask, what about the millions of former IBOs who may have lost billions of dollars because of false claims which led them to believe that they would get rich following upline advice? Maybe former IBOs should unite and file claims against unethical upline leaders who led them astray? Why not hold these leaders accountable?
In any case, hard work doesn't equate success in Amway and I dare anyone to try to prove me wrong.
The reason why hard work doesn't equal success is because an Amway IBO is basically a commissioned sales person. In commissioned sales, one can work hard for no reward and at times, little effort may reap large rewards. But in Amway, with a crappy reputation, Amway IBOs are dealt a handicap that most simply cannot overcome. Getting new people to recruitment meetings is hard enough, not even factoring in the abililty to sponsor others. When factoring in these tidbits, it's easy to see why uplines teach buy from yourself and selling is not needed. Buying from yourself seems easy enough and it allows volume to be moved. But after a while, how many "long lasting concentrated" products can you go through in a month's time?
The work involved is very simple. Sell products and get other IBOs (Sponsor) in your downline to be able to leverage your volume. Many IBOs work hard and attend all of the functions and do all of the steps as outlined by upline, but very few reap rewards and most quit when they realize that the system doesn't work. It is sad that on top of losing money, that IBOs are also taught to blame themselves for their demise. Where is the upline when IBOs bust their butts working hard and get no rewards? On top of that, to make it worse, uplines profit from selling training and motivation to their downlines. Why aren't they held acountable?
I've read comments by some Amway defenders wanting to sue Amway critics for a potential loss of business. But most critics, like myself are simply stating our experiences and opinions. Many of which are true and still happening today. So I will ask, what about the millions of former IBOs who may have lost billions of dollars because of false claims which led them to believe that they would get rich following upline advice? Maybe former IBOs should unite and file claims against unethical upline leaders who led them astray? Why not hold these leaders accountable?
In any case, hard work doesn't equate success in Amway and I dare anyone to try to prove me wrong.
Wednesday, September 13, 2017
Go Diamond, Live A Life Of Leisure
When I was an IBO and was out showing the plan, I often saw my upline diamond driving around town dressed in a business suit. I used to think why does he keep working so much if he can walk away and collect residual income? My sponsor told me that the diamond only works because he cares about his downline and wants to help them. So there are two possible scenarios, the diamond is working to help his downline out of a genuine concern, or possoibly he is working because he has to! The only difference now is that the diamond works the night and/or graveyard shift, because many IBOs are building the business after they complete their day jobs. **We should also note that my former upline diamond dropped down to the emerald level around 2005 and has since re-established his diamond level. (So much for lifelong residual income)
Now Amway has stated that the average diamond earns about $150,000 a year. Amway currently says the average Diamond makes over $500K, but that is the average for aQ12 Diamond (which is the rare exception, thus I believe the average diamond income is still about $150K) That is a decent income, but after taxes and paying for basic expenses such as medical and dental insurance, the average diamond probably lives a very middle class lifestyle. Keep in mind that a large portion of a diamond's income comes in the form of an annual bonus, thus a diamond's monthly income may be quite small. Yes, diamonds may have other sources of income such as speaking engagements and income from standing orders and functions. But this income depends on the diamond's continued appearances and efforts.
So is it likely that a diamond is "free"? I would have to conclude that a diamond is not free, and may actually have to spend more time maintaining his group than if the diamond simply had a 9-5 job. For one thing, a diamond needs to maintain a personal group to keep qualifying for bonuses. With a poor retention rate in Amway, I am fairly sure that a diamond spends much time recruiting personally sponsored IBOs to maintain this group. Additionally, a diamond must help his six or more groups of downline platinums to maintain their businesses or face the possibility of falling out of qualification. My former diamond dropped down to the emerald level but has since re-qualified at diamond. A diamond must also dedicate time to reward up and coming movers and shakers, to keep them motivated. I got to spend time with my upline diamond when I was considered a promising up and coming IBO.
In order to continue to receive tools income, a diamond must also travel to numerous functions and speaking engagements. Although the tools income allegedly doubles a diamond's income, it also adds a lot of expenses, especially if the diamond and his family travel first class to show off the diamond lifestyle. I wonder if some diamonds can even afford to fly first class?
After breaking down projected income and considering projected expenses, I can only conclude that a diamond probably lives a middle to upper middle class lifestyle, and probably works as much as a man with a 9-5 job, except that a diamond works nites and weekends. A good portrait of this is shown in Ruth Carter's book (Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke and Mirrors). In the book, the diamond had a net income of over $300,000, but lived in debt, could barely pay his mortgage, and was always on the run from one function to the next. This is not the lifestyle that diamonds try to portray.
I believe that diamonds may actually be busier at the diamond level than an average Joe who has a 9-5 J-O-B. The difference is that the diamond works the night shift. Is this the freedom you are seeking?
Now Amway has stated that the average diamond earns about $150,000 a year. Amway currently says the average Diamond makes over $500K, but that is the average for aQ12 Diamond (which is the rare exception, thus I believe the average diamond income is still about $150K) That is a decent income, but after taxes and paying for basic expenses such as medical and dental insurance, the average diamond probably lives a very middle class lifestyle. Keep in mind that a large portion of a diamond's income comes in the form of an annual bonus, thus a diamond's monthly income may be quite small. Yes, diamonds may have other sources of income such as speaking engagements and income from standing orders and functions. But this income depends on the diamond's continued appearances and efforts.
So is it likely that a diamond is "free"? I would have to conclude that a diamond is not free, and may actually have to spend more time maintaining his group than if the diamond simply had a 9-5 job. For one thing, a diamond needs to maintain a personal group to keep qualifying for bonuses. With a poor retention rate in Amway, I am fairly sure that a diamond spends much time recruiting personally sponsored IBOs to maintain this group. Additionally, a diamond must help his six or more groups of downline platinums to maintain their businesses or face the possibility of falling out of qualification. My former diamond dropped down to the emerald level but has since re-qualified at diamond. A diamond must also dedicate time to reward up and coming movers and shakers, to keep them motivated. I got to spend time with my upline diamond when I was considered a promising up and coming IBO.
In order to continue to receive tools income, a diamond must also travel to numerous functions and speaking engagements. Although the tools income allegedly doubles a diamond's income, it also adds a lot of expenses, especially if the diamond and his family travel first class to show off the diamond lifestyle. I wonder if some diamonds can even afford to fly first class?
After breaking down projected income and considering projected expenses, I can only conclude that a diamond probably lives a middle to upper middle class lifestyle, and probably works as much as a man with a 9-5 job, except that a diamond works nites and weekends. A good portrait of this is shown in Ruth Carter's book (Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke and Mirrors). In the book, the diamond had a net income of over $300,000, but lived in debt, could barely pay his mortgage, and was always on the run from one function to the next. This is not the lifestyle that diamonds try to portray.
I believe that diamonds may actually be busier at the diamond level than an average Joe who has a 9-5 J-O-B. The difference is that the diamond works the night shift. Is this the freedom you are seeking?
Monday, September 11, 2017
Personal Responsibility In Amway?
One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they wlll tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure. Where's the responsibility of the upline? Why aren't they held accountable for the people who trusted them and followed their advice?
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I did not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that. Most of these IBOs will fade away and never be heard from again.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 18 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment? There are likely many instances where platinums fully sold out to the systems still end up losing money as the support materials and functions can add up quickly.
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery. Amway is a business opportunity, but the overall results for success are similar to a lottery. What does that tell you?
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from?
I will pass.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I did not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that. Most of these IBOs will fade away and never be heard from again.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 18 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment? There are likely many instances where platinums fully sold out to the systems still end up losing money as the support materials and functions can add up quickly.
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery. Amway is a business opportunity, but the overall results for success are similar to a lottery. What does that tell you?
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from?
I will pass.
Friday, September 8, 2017
Join Amway And Sink Deeper Into Debt?
One of the things that many Amway uplines will talk about with their downline is debt. Many IBOs and prospects join Amway, hoping that Amway will help them eliminate debt, by providing some extra income. What many IBOs find out though, is that they end up more deeply in debt, not because of Amway necessarily, but often because of the pressure to purchase tools and function tickets. While getting out of debt is a good idea, the same upline may advise that person to go deeper in hock to participate in Amway and the training (tools) system.
Eliminating debt on the surface, is a good thing. However, I believe that many uplines only want IBOs to eliminate debt so they can free up discretionary monies that can be channeled into tool purchases, which uplines profit from. So while the advice seems sound, it still ends up as a self serving piece of advice. If you are an IBO or a prospect, is your upline advising you to eliminate debt and then turning around and telling you to attend "all" functions? If so, they are simply helping you clear up debt so you can obtain more of it by making them wealthy via tool purchases.
As a WWDB IBO, I heard the mantra about getting rid of debt. It sounded good to me, but I was floored when the same upline told us it was okay to go deeper in hock if it was to further our business, or in other words, to buy more standing orders or to attend functions. I could not understand why it was okay to create more debt, but only to "invest" in your business. If debt is bad, then functions and other tools should be cut as well, until the IBO can reasonably afford to participate in the system. IBOs, in my opinion. should be using profits from the business in order to purchase tools. If there is no net profit, then that IBO should decide whether or not the tools are worthy of an investment. Even if an IBO has some profits, the IBOs should determine whether to bank the profit or to channel them towards tool purchases. This needs to be said: There is no evidence that tools work, unless you ask the people selling the tools.
Too many IBOs trust their upline and make initial and ongoing purchases of tools, and then continue to do so without seeing tangible results. I believe this is why IBOs are taught to trust and have faith. Or that success is right around the corner. It keeps an IBO going, even in the absence of results. Hopefully an article like this can bring awareness to IBOs and potential IBOs. Good luck to those who disregard this information.
Eliminating debt on the surface, is a good thing. However, I believe that many uplines only want IBOs to eliminate debt so they can free up discretionary monies that can be channeled into tool purchases, which uplines profit from. So while the advice seems sound, it still ends up as a self serving piece of advice. If you are an IBO or a prospect, is your upline advising you to eliminate debt and then turning around and telling you to attend "all" functions? If so, they are simply helping you clear up debt so you can obtain more of it by making them wealthy via tool purchases.
As a WWDB IBO, I heard the mantra about getting rid of debt. It sounded good to me, but I was floored when the same upline told us it was okay to go deeper in hock if it was to further our business, or in other words, to buy more standing orders or to attend functions. I could not understand why it was okay to create more debt, but only to "invest" in your business. If debt is bad, then functions and other tools should be cut as well, until the IBO can reasonably afford to participate in the system. IBOs, in my opinion. should be using profits from the business in order to purchase tools. If there is no net profit, then that IBO should decide whether or not the tools are worthy of an investment. Even if an IBO has some profits, the IBOs should determine whether to bank the profit or to channel them towards tool purchases. This needs to be said: There is no evidence that tools work, unless you ask the people selling the tools.
Too many IBOs trust their upline and make initial and ongoing purchases of tools, and then continue to do so without seeing tangible results. I believe this is why IBOs are taught to trust and have faith. Or that success is right around the corner. It keeps an IBO going, even in the absence of results. Hopefully an article like this can bring awareness to IBOs and potential IBOs. Good luck to those who disregard this information.
Thursday, September 7, 2017
Complaints About Amway?
Over the years, I have seen literally hundreds (if not more) blogs and testimonials about Amway. Most of them decry the pitfalls of being an Amway IBO. Most of the complaints cite the fact that Amway in general has higher prices than comparable retailers and the fact that the system consisting of voicemail, books, cds and seminars ate up any profits the IBO may have made and resulted in net losses for most. One particular Amway apologist bemoans the fact that the internet is full of bad testomonials about Amway. The reason why there are so many negative testimonials about Amway is because over the years, thousands, possibly millions either had a bad experience for the reasons I cited above, or personally know of someone who had a bad experience.
Amway defenders will often cite the fact that many IBOs sign up and "do nothing" as their defense to this. But I will easily point out that I haven't seen anyone say they signed up, failed to do anything or order products, quit and started blogging about a bad experience in Amway. These defenders will also compare Amway to the gym where people sign up and "do nothing". Whether true or not, I also do not see people who sign up and "do nothing" complain about not receiving health benefits by simply signing up. It is a very weak defense. Conversely, I have seen numerous accounts of folks like myself who did put in effort, some for many years, who did what upline advised and did not see the financial rewards that is promoted in "the plan".
Amway defenders will then try to justify themselves, saying that the better business bureau (BBB) receives few formal complaints about Amway. I will agree with this. Many IBOs never bother to file formal complaints to the BBB or to Amway because in many, probably most cases, the person who quits and may have had a bad experience, was sponsored into the business. The sponsor was often a friend or family member of the IBO who left the business. Many will simply leave and forget the episode and chalk it up to a learning experience in life. Some will complain, but really have to ne venue to voice their remorse about joining. Some of us have found the interent to be quite effective in sharing our experiences and our opinions on why the business did not work. This is what one Amway defender calls the "internet war". What I have pointed out is that critics most often simply point out what the IBOs themselves have done. In many cases, the IBO is his own worst enemy. Afterall, critics didn't deny Amway and Quixtar had a connection, nor did critics make up claims about perfect water, etc.
It would appear that most of the problems has a root in the AMO systems, such as WWDB, BWW, LTD, or N21. Now, not all upline leaders are unethical, but it appears that many are, and new IBOs have no way to identify the good from the bad. It also appears that some of these upline leaders will issue bad avice. Advice that is detrimental to the IBOs, but financially beneficial to themselves, such as telling IBOs to never miss a function, or to buy more cds. In many cases, these unethical uplines do not care about IBO success, their goal is just to move as many support materials as possible, so they can fund their "diamond" lifestyle. Sadly, it is also apparent that the diamond lifestyle may be a facade in some cases. An illusion of wealth portrayed as a recruiting tool.
If you recognize some of these warning signs, ask tough questions of your potential sponsor and visit this or some of the blogs linked to this one for more information.
Amway defenders will often cite the fact that many IBOs sign up and "do nothing" as their defense to this. But I will easily point out that I haven't seen anyone say they signed up, failed to do anything or order products, quit and started blogging about a bad experience in Amway. These defenders will also compare Amway to the gym where people sign up and "do nothing". Whether true or not, I also do not see people who sign up and "do nothing" complain about not receiving health benefits by simply signing up. It is a very weak defense. Conversely, I have seen numerous accounts of folks like myself who did put in effort, some for many years, who did what upline advised and did not see the financial rewards that is promoted in "the plan".
Amway defenders will then try to justify themselves, saying that the better business bureau (BBB) receives few formal complaints about Amway. I will agree with this. Many IBOs never bother to file formal complaints to the BBB or to Amway because in many, probably most cases, the person who quits and may have had a bad experience, was sponsored into the business. The sponsor was often a friend or family member of the IBO who left the business. Many will simply leave and forget the episode and chalk it up to a learning experience in life. Some will complain, but really have to ne venue to voice their remorse about joining. Some of us have found the interent to be quite effective in sharing our experiences and our opinions on why the business did not work. This is what one Amway defender calls the "internet war". What I have pointed out is that critics most often simply point out what the IBOs themselves have done. In many cases, the IBO is his own worst enemy. Afterall, critics didn't deny Amway and Quixtar had a connection, nor did critics make up claims about perfect water, etc.
It would appear that most of the problems has a root in the AMO systems, such as WWDB, BWW, LTD, or N21. Now, not all upline leaders are unethical, but it appears that many are, and new IBOs have no way to identify the good from the bad. It also appears that some of these upline leaders will issue bad avice. Advice that is detrimental to the IBOs, but financially beneficial to themselves, such as telling IBOs to never miss a function, or to buy more cds. In many cases, these unethical uplines do not care about IBO success, their goal is just to move as many support materials as possible, so they can fund their "diamond" lifestyle. Sadly, it is also apparent that the diamond lifestyle may be a facade in some cases. An illusion of wealth portrayed as a recruiting tool.
If you recognize some of these warning signs, ask tough questions of your potential sponsor and visit this or some of the blogs linked to this one for more information.
Wednesday, September 6, 2017
Build It Once, Build It Right?
I believe that Amway IBOs have an approximate 50% attrition rate for the first year alone. If you look at a 5 year window, I believe the attrition rate is something like 95%. So what we're saying is that out of 100 IBOs, only 5 will be around in 5 years, or out of 1000 IBOs, 50 will remain after 5 years. This is extremely significant because if you are a business builder, you will need to replace half of your IBOs every single year. For this reason, I am very doubtful that there are IBOs who "built the business right and built it once", who no longer do Amway related work, but still collect significant residual income. I would guess that significant income could be defined as being enough to live a lifestyle in the top tax bracket (for the US) without having to report to a J-O-B.
Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, even until death. And you still can find diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once, who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?
Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.
All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank.
Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, even until death. And you still can find diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once, who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?
Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.
All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank.
Tuesday, September 5, 2017
Amway Success?
Success is subjective. Someone making ten dollars might be considered successful, for others, nothing less than a barrel of cash will suffice. One other important point is that there are undoubtably some very successful people in Amway. I am sure that some Amway diamonds are quite well off and enjoy some of the finer things in life. But the reality is that these successes are very very rare and many of these success apparently are not sustainable as many people are led to believe.
But the bigger issue in the Amway opportunity is where the success comes from. Sure, many people want to "go diamond" and live in luxury while barrels of cash roll in. But what is unknown to many, is that the few who enjoy the lifestyle and trappings do so at the expense of their downline. The downline move the volume and the downline purchases the system materials, both of which is profitable for the upline. Because Amway products, admittedly are not commonly sold to people who are not IBOs, then anyone can conclude that upline success comes from the pockets of the downline. Most downline would be better off writing a check for $100 each month to their upline and not participating in the business or buying products at all.
This in itself would not be such an issue if the system actually churned out new successes frequently AND if the downline were not led to believe that the system is the key to their success. But less than one half of one percent of IBOs ever reach platinum and out of those who do, only a tiny fraction of one percent ever attain the diamond level. But the business has tens of millions of people who tried and could never achieve what was promoted. Lack of effort may be a factor, but when that many people try and fail, it's evident that the system is flawed as well.
To summarize, it is possible for someone to achieve a level of success in Amway, but it is so difficult and so rare that IBOs probably have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning than they do of achieving a significant level in the Amway business. Some people are successful, but it is usually at the expense of their downline. The catch is that uplines will teach their faithful downline IBOs that attending a function or buying a standing order is success, regardless of whether an IBO is earning a profit. So many IBOs think they're successful but they are simply fooling themselves with the help of their upline.
Success is undeniable, but sadly for the vast majority of IBOs, it is also unattainable, at least in the Amway opportunity.
But the bigger issue in the Amway opportunity is where the success comes from. Sure, many people want to "go diamond" and live in luxury while barrels of cash roll in. But what is unknown to many, is that the few who enjoy the lifestyle and trappings do so at the expense of their downline. The downline move the volume and the downline purchases the system materials, both of which is profitable for the upline. Because Amway products, admittedly are not commonly sold to people who are not IBOs, then anyone can conclude that upline success comes from the pockets of the downline. Most downline would be better off writing a check for $100 each month to their upline and not participating in the business or buying products at all.
This in itself would not be such an issue if the system actually churned out new successes frequently AND if the downline were not led to believe that the system is the key to their success. But less than one half of one percent of IBOs ever reach platinum and out of those who do, only a tiny fraction of one percent ever attain the diamond level. But the business has tens of millions of people who tried and could never achieve what was promoted. Lack of effort may be a factor, but when that many people try and fail, it's evident that the system is flawed as well.
To summarize, it is possible for someone to achieve a level of success in Amway, but it is so difficult and so rare that IBOs probably have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning than they do of achieving a significant level in the Amway business. Some people are successful, but it is usually at the expense of their downline. The catch is that uplines will teach their faithful downline IBOs that attending a function or buying a standing order is success, regardless of whether an IBO is earning a profit. So many IBOs think they're successful but they are simply fooling themselves with the help of their upline.
Success is undeniable, but sadly for the vast majority of IBOs, it is also unattainable, at least in the Amway opportunity.
Monday, September 4, 2017
Why Amway Was and Still Is A Scam?
When I was a younger man, I was pitched Amway as a shortcut to untold wealth. That in 2-5 years, everyone could be millionaires walking the beaches of the world and living the high life. All we needed was 2-5 years of work and to dedicate yourself to the "system". If you do all of the "core" steps for 6 straight months, 100% of the time you would succeed. That was the teaching then and based on my observations and discussions with current IBOs, that's basically what is taught now. Therefore, I still believe that Amway was and still is a scam.
Amway products are not priced competetively. The "generous" 30+% bonus that Amway pays out is included in the cost of Amway products. And that's before an IBO adds markup for their own profit. I know that many IBOs are willing to sell at their cost to reduce the amount of PV they need to self consume. This is based on various discussions I've had with IBOs and some of them are desperate to move volume, even at cost. Therefore, Amway products cannot be competetively sold because of these reasons. NOw that's not to say there are no good deals from Amway. A few products here and there may very well be decent value, but overall and in general, Amway products cannot compare to similar products that you can get at a retailer.
The other scam is the Amway "tools" system. Upline promotes the system as your key to success. The system consists of a voicemail system, CDs, books, functions, sample kits and some other materials. These costs can vary and some upline will foot the cost for new IBOs in the beginning. But the system itself has no verified record of success. Some uplines or IBOs will claim that everyone who went diamond was on the system, but to that I say every lottery winner had a ticket. Just because there are some winners doesn't mean that the system was responsible for their success or that the system works for most people who use it. Success in Amwayis often short lived and unsustainable. (See how many former platinums and diamonds there are).
Amway is still promoted as easy, simple or "anyone can do it". The fact of the matter is anyone can win the lottery also. Amway defenders like to harp that Amway isn't a game of chance. To that I say isn't it sad that something that isn't a game of chance has the same dismal results as agame of chance? My old LOS, WWDB (Worldwide Group) used to claim they were the best and most profitable. Yet there are fewer diamonds (In the US) now than when I was involved many years ago. Shouldn't there be new and many success stories? There aren't. And it's why I believe that Amway was and still is a scam.
Amway products are not priced competetively. The "generous" 30+% bonus that Amway pays out is included in the cost of Amway products. And that's before an IBO adds markup for their own profit. I know that many IBOs are willing to sell at their cost to reduce the amount of PV they need to self consume. This is based on various discussions I've had with IBOs and some of them are desperate to move volume, even at cost. Therefore, Amway products cannot be competetively sold because of these reasons. NOw that's not to say there are no good deals from Amway. A few products here and there may very well be decent value, but overall and in general, Amway products cannot compare to similar products that you can get at a retailer.
The other scam is the Amway "tools" system. Upline promotes the system as your key to success. The system consists of a voicemail system, CDs, books, functions, sample kits and some other materials. These costs can vary and some upline will foot the cost for new IBOs in the beginning. But the system itself has no verified record of success. Some uplines or IBOs will claim that everyone who went diamond was on the system, but to that I say every lottery winner had a ticket. Just because there are some winners doesn't mean that the system was responsible for their success or that the system works for most people who use it. Success in Amwayis often short lived and unsustainable. (See how many former platinums and diamonds there are).
Amway is still promoted as easy, simple or "anyone can do it". The fact of the matter is anyone can win the lottery also. Amway defenders like to harp that Amway isn't a game of chance. To that I say isn't it sad that something that isn't a game of chance has the same dismal results as agame of chance? My old LOS, WWDB (Worldwide Group) used to claim they were the best and most profitable. Yet there are fewer diamonds (In the US) now than when I was involved many years ago. Shouldn't there be new and many success stories? There aren't. And it's why I believe that Amway was and still is a scam.
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