Investing Is Not Gambling?

 One of the biggest loads of guano told by upline diamonds was that the stock market was essentially gambling.  As if buying shares in a solid company was like betting on a hand of blackjack or red or black on a spin of the wheel on roulette.  This is extremely dangerous teaching on the part of the diamonds.  I often wonder if the diamonds themselves are invested into the stock market themselves? Let’s face it, for an average middle class person, investing at a young age can be a means to grow wealth in the long run.

I can agree that day trading can be a form of gambling because you aren’t giving the stock and the company to overcome short term setbacks and problems.  But let me give you food for thought about something I figured out a in the late 1990s.  It seemed like every so often when you read the news, Bill Gates kept getting wealthier and wealthier.  It wasn’t because he was putting his money in a bank.  He owned billions of dollars in Microsoft stock.  Having had that revelation, I bought shares of Microsoft as well and I haven’t sold a share yet although I am now retired.   The stock took some damage due to the covid 19 hysteria but has recovered nicely since April 2020.

Now I’m not claiming to be rich because of that investment but I have a fairly nice small fortune because of it.  I also own shares in other companies as well but I won’t discuss that here.  I do recall a tape made by a diamond named Dave Severn where he downplayed investing and said a broker gave him a hot tip on a stock and he said something like (not verbatim) “listen here Ace, I’ll put up as much money as you are”.  As if stock brokers aren’t willing to invest in their own advice.

Let’s look on the other side of the coin.  Diamonds advise prospects and IBOS to invest in tools and functions. I’d say that’s a much greater gamble since you can research Amway’s own numbers on their website and extrapolate that only about 1/4 of 1 percent ever reach platinum and out of those, only a small fraction ever reach diamond.  I’d venture to say confidently that you can invest in most companies with a proven track record and you’ll make positive gains in the stock as well as dividends in many cases.

Smart investing is not gambling but I’d say pouring money into an Amway business plus buying into the tools and functions gives you a worse chance of making a net profit than a day in Las Vegas.   Don’t believe me?  Who are among the richest men in the world?  Bill Gates?  Jeff Bezos?  Warren Buffet?   They didn’t make their money with Amway.  While the Amway owners are billionaires, you can note that they are not Amway distributors.  They own the MLM company, which can be lucrative when you have armies of distributors working for commission only and no benefits such as medical insurance.

Serious food for thought.

The Unseen Part Of Amway?

 I was in discussion on another related forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, cars, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode.

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literall laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this srouce of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accept rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benfit of upline, you should demand this information.

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different?

Earn More Than Your Sponsor?

 One of the silly defenses that Amway supporters use to defend their business is that it must not be a pyramid or it must be legitimate because you have the opportunity to earn more than your sponsor. While many downlines in fact do earn more than their sponsors, it's likely because about half of all IBOs quit in a year or less.   Those who stay for even a year, when you factor in the business expenses for those who are on tools, the reality of suffering business losses also causes people to exit the business. It's not that hard to earn more than people who quit. But even at that, someone who quits is often better off than IBOs who continue because those on the system are losing money.

An IBO at the 100 PV level will earn about $10 in bonus income from Amway. If they are attending functions, buying standing orders and voicemail, they will operate at a loss. Thus, unless their business grows each month (highly unlikely, even if they do as upline advises) then they will suffer losses each month and those who quit will be better off. It is why I have stated that doing nothing or staying home and watching television can honestly be better options than joining Amway and the systems such as WWDB, N21 or BWW. It is why reasonable people can conclude that working for minimum wage, even a few hours a week makes you better off than joining Amway and the systems.

The defense that someone can out earn their upline is silly. The true benchmark of this statement would be for a new guy to start a business, and in 2-5 years, out earn someone like Bill Britt. It will never happen because upline has direct influence over the fortunes of their downline, even at the diamond level. It is why you have seen diamonds quit, or split from their upline to start their own training systems. They cannot affects change from downline, without upline consent, thus the breaking away from their "mentors" or leaders. At times there have even been lawsuits over the tools income. Do people really sue their mentors? Don't diamonds teach you that suing people is wrong? That you don't get something for nothing?

You can surely out earn your sponsor. All it takes is for your sponsor to quit. However, your sponsor quitting might mean you don't out earn your sponsor. See my example above. Taking losses is not out earning someone. Keep in mind that everyone in Amway is equal. You are all unpaid commissioned Amway salespeople, bound to Amway's terms and agreements. You don't own your downline. You don't really own much as an independent business owner. You can out earn your sponsor, but that means squidly diddly when your sponsor makes nothing or takes a loss. Come back and chirp when you out earn your upline diamond. Do I hear crickets chirping now? :-)

A 4000 PV Business?

I wanted to give people a glimpse into what it was like in Amway at the 4000 PV level and what my experience was. Although Amway and WWDB apologists will claim this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't happen anymore, I have reasons to believe that very little has changed in WWDB since I was an IBO. The only major difference was that we did call in and product pick up back then. Apparently, some WWDB leaders still talk about buying homes in cash and teaching the same old stuff. And of course, now you order products online. Aside from that, I don't believe much has changed. And why would it?

How many hours per week did I work? I would say up to 30 hours a week was spent on business related issues. Granted, product pick up consumed an entire afternoon and evening, generally on Thursdays. I would have to call in my order to the platinum on Tuesday or Wednesday and then pick up the stuff on Thursday afternoon. Then I had to rush home and distribute the stuff to my downline. My upline platinum was not good at filling orders so it was a real pain. I'd say pick up and associated paperwork costed me maybe 8 hours a week. One good benefit today is that Amway issues the bonuses. In the old days, you as an upline had to cut checks to downline for their bonuses. (This is an area where I agree that Amway made good progress) I did hear though, that WWDB still has call in and pick up for standing orders and other tools. If this is true, then they undid the progress that Amway had made. Also, as an up and coming leader, my platinum expected me to absorb some of the cost of returned tools, such as absorbing losses if someone on standing order quit. (Brad Duncan cut a true north tape at the time that basically said IBOs absorb the cost of standing orders for downlines who quit - too much trouble to call upline who called upline to cancel a standing order. They didn't mind though, calling upline who called upline to add a standing order)

As a 4000 pin, I had to show the plan or attend plans for my front line IBOs. If the platinum was showing the plan. I'd say 4 nights per week we showed the plan for a downline or a downline in depth. Of course after the plan, we might "hang out" with downline and have some night owl teaching. Some people call this association or whatever. Depending on the length of the drive, this might take 3-4 hours 4 nights per week. Sometimes it was shorter when you had no shows.

We counseled with downline and upline. I spent some individual time with my upline and also with downline who wanted one on one time to get ideas on how to improve their Amway business. We looked over their group parameters and of course, tool flow. There was a WWDB counseling sheet for this purpose. Looking back, I"m not sure what this really accomplished except for the big pins to know which leaders are selling the most tools.

Then we had open meetings and functions. One local function each month and generally one or two open meetings where a diamond or emerald would show the plan. Of course, my sponsor (platinum) did not feel right unless he augmented our function with his own night owl meetings. We also had three long distance functions on the mainland. These functions were (at the time) called Leadership, Family Reunion and Free Enterprise day. Being from Hawaii, these functions costed me, as a single, at least $1,000 or more for each trip because it was airfare during peak travel times, hotel, rental cars and the function ticket. I hate to think what couples paid.

Because of my status as up and coming leader, I had the privilege of attending special meetings where our diamond would teach or show house plans. I even had the "honor" or driving the diamond to a house plan. Damn, how can anyone live without such an honor?

For my troubles, I had a business at 4000 PV, with eagle parameters. I was considered a "mover and shaker". Lots of people knew me. My sponsor wanted so badly to break a downline platinum. He sat down with me one afternoon and told me I could really push to platinum and ruby easily if I would only ditch my girlfriend (fiancee' at the time). He told me that he would ditch his wife if the upline diamond told him to do so. He said a single (ruby or higher) could easily attract a lot of eligible women. It was after that meeting when I decided to quit.

I had reached 4000 PV. I was making very little or losing some money because of the tools and functions. I did not see prospects of making money even at platinum and now my upline wanted control of my life. I told my group the truth and all of them quit except 1 or 2 of them who were brainwashed enough to stay involved. That was my story and I have no regrets about my decision to quit. I hope this story helps a prospect or a current IBO to hear about life at the 4000 level. 

Are Diamonds Rich Or Broke?

 I recently read an article on what constitutes wealth. Some say an annual income of $100,000 would make them wealthy, some say assets exceeding $4 million would do it, and some estimated that $2 million would make them "rich". Of course, everything is relative and someone earning $25,000 a year would think that $100,000 a year is wealth, etc. College students might think $40,000 a year is awesome because many have little money to begin with. I'm sure someone like Bill Gates would not consider $4 million to be astonishing. It's all relative. If you are content with what you have, you are likely relatively well off already.

But let's talk about Amway diamonds. I say diamond because it is basically the pinnacle of success. It is the crowning achievement of the 6-4-2 plan (or other variations) that many groups show. The average diamond (non Q12 - the norm) earns about $150,000, according to Amway. Now $150,000 sounds like a lot of money to young people or to those with lower wage types of jobs, or those who are just starting out in their careers. But we also know that diamonds earn income from the sale of tools. Some groups advertise (verbally) that someone might earn $100,000 a year from the tools/speaking income.

Let's be generous and say the diamond earns $300,000 a year from Amway and tools income. Income tax and medical insurance for the family will eat up about 40% or more of that right off the top, leaving about $180,000. Fantastic you might say? Well, a diamond certainly would live in a million dollar mansion, which would give you about a $6000 a month mortgage or $72,000 a year, leaving $108,000. (Although many - a - diamond pays for their homes in cash) Fantastic right? Well, diamonds are constantly traveling to various functions, flying first class and staying only at 5 star hotels right? So an average of 1 trip per month with a family, first class and a 5 star hotel would probably cost about $10,000 or more per trip, or about $120,000 a year, now leaving $8,000 for this diamond's yearly budget. A good diamond with a family surely consumes 300 PV per month for household goods, or about $900 a month or about $11,000 a year, leaving debt for the rest of the year. A good diamond is often a Christian who would faithfully tithe 10% of his income, or about $30,000 a year, leaving the diamond with more debt (or they don't give to charity). Then there's monthly costs to pay for their electric and utility bills, gas, car payments, meals and entertainment.

Yes, some expenses may be slightly higher or lower, but what I am trying to illustrate is that even an above average diamond with tools income is more likely to be broke than wealthy if they live the lifestyles portrayed at functions such as dream night or other major functions. Do the math. It is unlikely that diamonds pay cash for everything and it is unlikely that fabulous lifestyles can be sustained on a diamond income. There is plenty of evidence out there. Diamond's homes foreclosed, diamonds behind on income taxes, a prominent triple diamond in bankruptcy proceeding, many diamonds selling off their homes in a bad real estate market.

I truly believe that it is quite possible for many diamonds to broke or in debt trying to portray a lifestyle of wealth and fortune.

Analyzing The 6-4-2 Plan?

Let’s break down the Amway 6-4-2 plan.  Obviously this is just a snapshot in time.  Nearly every Amway group, in addition to what's shown here, will have registered IBOs who do nothing and  quit.  But a closer look at the plan reveals what the diamonds don't want you to realize.

Basically, it’s a plan to go direct (platinum) and all you need to do is sponsor 6 of these direct groups and you’re a diamond and will retire early and life in luxury right? 

Assumptions: 1PV = 2.5BV. 1PV costs about $2.70. 

The 6-4-2 plan has the premise that you do 100 PV, and you sponsor 6 frontline who do 100 PV. Your six frontline in turn sponsor 4 (24 IBOs) each who do 100 PV. And each of these 4 IBOs sponsor two IBOs (48 IBOs). 

So your direct empire looks like this: 

1 platinum Sponsored 6 who sponsored 4 who sponsored 2 6 1300 PV groups Sponsored 4 who sponsored 2 24 300 PV groups Sponsored 2 48 100 PV IBOs 

Total 7900 PV. 7900 PV = (1 PV = 2.5 BV) 19750 BV. 19,750 BV @25% = $4937.50 per month. Annualized = $59,250. Add Q12 bonus 69,250 (platinum group yearly income, not counting retail sales profit. Cost of product (approximate) $21,300 per month or $255,960 per year to maintain 7900 PV. 

The platinum must pay his 6 1300 PV groups. 6 frontline 1300 PV = 3250 BV = $390 per month, or $4680 per year. $4680 x 6 = 28,080. 

The Platinum keeps 69,250 – 28,080 = 41,170 (net, but not including operating and system expenses, but this includes the Q 12 bonus) 

Now, the 6 frontline must pay their 4 IBOs who sponsored two. 300 PV = 750 BV = $45 Per month, or $540 per year. Thus the 6 frontline earn $4680 per year but pay out $2160 downline for a net of $2520 per year, or $210 per month. 

Ok, and then each of the IBOs who earn $45 per month or $540 per year must pay their downline (2 each) $7.50 per month, or $90 per year x 2 = $15 month or 180 per year. Thus the 300 PV IBO earns $30 per month or $360 per year. 

Let’s review: 

1 platinum earns $3430 per month, or $41,170 per year 6 1300 PV IBOs earn $210 per month, or $2520 per year 24 300 PV IBOs earn $30 per month, or $360 per year 48 100 PV IBOs earn $7.50 per month, or $90 per year This is before taxes and expenses, but also does not include retail profits, but hey, we teach buy from yourself right? 

OK, let’s look at tools expenses. Let’s say only the platinum, the 6 frontline and the 4 each who sponsored others are on tools (Fair assessment?) That would be 31 IBOs out of a group of 79 IBOs on tools or 39% of the group, and remember that all of these IBOs do 100 PV every month. 

Tools cost: KATE, Website, standing order, book of the month, open meetings, monthly functions, major functions (some IBOs have to fly to functions), gas, incidentals, babysitters. Let’s estimate these tools and other expenses to be $160 per month (Very conservative IMO). $160 per month = $1920 per year. 

Now let’s review the group NET income. 

1 platinum $3430 - $160 = $3270 per month, or $39,240 per year 6 frontline (1300 PV) $210 -$160 = $50 per month, or $600 per year 24 (300 PV) $30 - $160 = <$130> per month loss of $1560 per year 48 IBOs earn $7.50 per month or $90 per year. 

Group income = $69,250. Group Tools expenses = (31 x $160 = $4960 per month, or $59,520 per year) Group profit = $9,730 for the year. 

79 IBOs putting in 10 hours per week = 790 hours per week or 9480 hours per year. 

These IBOs on average made a whopping $1.02 per hour for the year collectively. Or……… 

The Platinum made $78.48 per hour 

6 frontline IBOs made $1.15 per hour 

24 – 300 PV IBOs lost $3 per hour 

48 100 PV IBOs made 17 cents per hour.

The Losers?

 One of the things I recall as an Amway IBO was thinking how sorry I felt for people who were not IBOs because we were all going to be rich and everyone else was a loser. Our upline used to tell us that we were winners - and if you weren't a winner, then obviously, you are a loser. Many times, the term "broke" was attached to the term loser. That was my mindset back then, but having been out of the system more than ten years, I can look back and laugh, realizing that the losers were the ones buying stuff they don't need, stalking people at malls and bookstores, and wasting their time and money on tapes (cds), books and functions. And the irony of it all was that the people in Amway were paying to be taught to think in that manner.

What goes unnoticed in so many cases, is how much time and money really goes down the drain for IBOs who work the system. Your life revolves around the business if you are dedicated and hard core. You are always looking for prospects and people to show the plan to, and you have to rearrange your schedules, or outright skip social or family gatherings because of the never ending number of meetings and functions, many of which teach you nothing about running a profitable business. When I first left the Amway business, I was sort of angry at the time and effort that was wasted, along with the cash I threw down the crapper. You can always make up money lost in the Amway scam but you can never regain the lost time or memories from missing social gatherings or family related events.

But after I did finally cut ties with the business and the people associated with it, I got back into a routine of sorts. I focused on my job and after some years of gaining experience and working my way up the corporate ladder, I received some promotions and I am now retired, well before the age of 60 (50) with a decent retirement income and will likely have my home paid off by then. So while I did have to work a dreaded job to be able to retire, pretty much all IBOs are also working a job or business PLUS having to expend their time and money to run their Amway business which has little to no chance of providing a long term stable and significant income. And if I may add, it is the systems such as WWDB or N21 that usually end up costing the IBOs the most money because of things like the functions.

So I will ask the question. Who's the real loser? The person diligently working and saving for their future or the person chasing an Amway dream that is unlikely to materialize? Factoring in the expenditure of time also makes the systems even more costly than it appears on the surface.

Your Best Interest?

 The really insidious part about some of the Amway LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat businessmen with nice suits and nice smiles. They are disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is true, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog and some other bitt of information I am privy to. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary.

As an IBO, the diamonds would tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniversary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. I know of an IBO who did just that. He quit his job to attend a major function and got into all kinds of financial problems when they got back to real life. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an "investment into your business". This is scary advice and why I maintain this blog.

Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy 5-7 extra cds (tapes) every week (or more). To be core, you needed to listen to a cd (tape) each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own separate standing orders. Brad Duncan even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.

In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?

Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are ruthless businessmen who will take your last dime if you allow them to.

The Mind Game?

 This was a comment left on this blog. It is a very good description of what many Amway BOs experience and how uplines manipulate them. 

Amway is totally a mind game. Controlling your mind is the name of the game. Each and everything that is said from the stage, in the cd..is done for a reason. When you are in it, you don't think u are being manipulated. Rather you are made to feel like you are a winner..and you are exceptionally better off than the average outside(non-amway) people, whereas in reality you are loosing every day- loosing in the sense, you are not getting the results for the efforts u are putting. 

Every possible negative situation that could happen is thought of and covered from the stage, and the cd. For eg: let's say u have been in the business for 5 years and not making profit. You will listen to a cd where the speaker says nothing happened to them for the first 5 years of business- so u will be like, this is so similar to my story..if I stay a little more time, it is going to work for me. 

The job world and the outside people (non-amway people) is painted in such a negative color in the system, so u will be like business is not working,.but jobs don't work either...let me stick it out and make it in the business...anyway i will not be able to even spend any time with people outside, let me stay in the business. 

You are encouraged to have bigger dreams and get pictures of your dreams on your fridge or have a dream board. In a way this keeps u in the biz, b'coz it is your dream and u are like, how can i choose to leave the biz and these dreams. 

Big time stroking of ego happens in all associations. At all associations, whoever that is getting results at that time is promoted through the roof. Sometimes when u are not getting any results, some of the big pins, wont even acknowledge ur presence. U will be like...i will show it to u, what i am capable of and will stay in the biz some more time.

The main goal of the system is to keep u in the biz for some more time, until that next function or seminar comes to pump u up or give u hope. In the meantime u will be buying 300PV worth of product and increase Amway's business and will be buying tools and be increasing your system's income. 

If u have a few people in your group, quitting becomes even more difficult, u will be like.how can i tell these people, whom i gave dreams and got them in...that i am not going to pursue. 

If ur upline is in the local area, if u tell them that u dont want to continue, they will come to ur house, spend hours with u and will use every technique in the book to keep u in. 

For those of u who have read "How to win Friends and Influence people"- two main techniques are used from that book in amway business: 1) Appeal to Nobler cause- There is no real money in Amway for most people- so what do they appeal to - Impacting people, better marriages, great families, Free Enterprise, Intangible benefits like becoming a better person etc etc etc. 

2)Dramatize your ideas- This is what happens in the function- whereas everything is dramatized--incredible fear about economy, job world is put in your mind and incredible rewards achieved by people in the business is constantly talked about( in a crowd of 3000 in a function, at the most 20 so called successful people talk-so there is your ratio of success.) 

So, how does this business run? why do people stay in? for HOPE...HOPE of making it one day. .HOPE of achieving their dreams...They stay afloat with HOPE

A Job Or Amway?

 One of the ways that upline diamonds would put down jobs was to toss in the phrase that a job was simply trading hours for dollars. As if it were demeaning to have a job where you got paid for your time. I believe it's all relative. Being that many IBOs are young and maybe working in more entry level types of jobs, then yeah, your hours wage might not be that great. If you earn say $10 an hour, then you might be struggling financially and it may take time before your skills and knowledge increase to a point where your experience is worth more money. What if you had a job paying $1000 an hour and earned $160,000 a month? Is that a lousy deal trading hours for dollars? Sounds pretty sweet to me.

Conversely, having a business can be good or bad also. If you have an Amway business earning less than $100 a month and you spend $200 a month on functions, standing orders and other training and motivational materials, then you are losing money. You would be better off doing nothing. That is still a better alternative than working a business where you are losing money. I think most people agree that a platinum group typically has a 100 or more IBOs. Thus a platinum is in the top 1% of all IBOs. I have heard that the platinum level is where you start to break even or make a little profit, depending on your level of tool consumption. If platinums are barely making a profit, then the other 99+% of IBOs are likely losing money. How much is that worth per hour?

I think uplines cleverly trick IBOs into thinking that a job is bad. Trading hours for dollars, after all, sounds like some kind of indentured servant of sorts. But in the end, what matters is your bottom line. If you are an IBO with little or no downline, and/or not much in terms of sales to non IBOs/customers, then you are losing money each and every month if you are attending functions and buying standing orders. Your 10-12 hours a week of Amway work is costing you money! But if you spend 10-12 hours a week, even at minimum wage, then you might be making about 300 to 350 a month gross income. After taxes, you make about 250 to 300. At least trading hours for dollars gets you a guaranteed net gain at the end of the month. Amway nearly assures you of net losses each month.

Uplines trick you into a "business mentality" where you think that working for a net loss is just a part of business. IBOs should realize that a business promoted as low risk and no overhead should be one where you can profit right away. Instead, IBOs are taught to delay gratification, or to reinvest any profit back into their business in the form of tools and functions, which results in a net loss. If that's the case I would gladly choose trading hours for dollars.

Remember, trading hours for dollars is not a bad deal if you are making enough dollars per hour. And even those who make less, are better off that those who "run a business" but end up with a net loss. It's all relative and hopefully, this message will help new or prospective IBOs who are being enticed to join the Amway business opportunity. Good luck to those with jobs and those with businesses. You can be successful either way.

"Success"?

 Success is subjective. Someone making ten dollars might be considered successful, for others, nothing less than a barrel of cash will suffice. One other important point is that there are undoubtedly some very successful people in Amway. I am sure that some Amway diamonds are quite well off and enjoy some of the finer things in life. But the reality is that these successes are very very rare and many of these success apparently are not sustainable as many people are led to believe

But the bigger issue in the Amway opportunity is where the success comes from. Sure, many people want to "go diamond" and live in luxury while barrels of cash roll in. But what is unknown to many, is that the few who enjoy the lifestyle and trappings do so at the expense of their downline. The downline move the volume and the downline purchases the system materials, both of which is profitable for the upline. Because Amway products, admittedly are not commonly sold to people who are not IBOs, then anyone can conclude that upline success comes from the pockets of the downline. Most downline would be better off writing a check for $100 each month to their upline and not participating in the business or buying products at all.

This in itself would not be such an issue if the system actually churned out new successes frequently AND if the downline were not led to believe that the system is the key to their success. But less than one half of one percent of IBOs ever reach platinum and out of those who do, only a tiny fraction of one percent ever attain the diamond level. But the business has tens of millions of people who tried and could never achieve what was promoted. Lack of effort may be a factor, but when that many people try and fail, it's evident that the system is flawed as well.

To summarize, it is possible for someone to achieve a level of success in Amway, but it is so difficult and so rare that IBOs probably have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning than they do of achieving a significant level in the Amway business. Some people are successful, but it is usually at the expense of their downline. The catch is that uplines will teach their faithful downline IBOs that attending a function or buying a standing order is success, regardless of whether an IBO is earning a profit. So many IBOs think they're successful but they are simply fooling themselves with the help of their upline.

Success is undeniable, but sadly for the vast majority of IBOs, it is also unattainable, at least in the Amway opportunity.

Freedom At Last?

 Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis.

I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me.

But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.

1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.

2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?

The Forgotten Amway/WWDB Challenge?

Some people may not recall any of this, but sometime about 12+ years ago, then Crown Ambassador Ron Puryear made a challenge to all the WWDB Diamonds. He said that in order to prove that going diamond is possible, he challenged the WWDB diamonds to build a diamond business on top of what they already have. That would prove to downline that going diamond is indeed possible and that "anyone" can do it. Of course the diamonds had the advantage of having already achieved some level of success. They could use their experience and credibility to build an even bigger business and to be an example of what downline should be targeting.

Not a single diamond, as far as I know, was able to achieve this feat. All the same diamonds and whatever, remained the same. The challenge fizzled out after a number of months and WWDB leaders just pretended that nothing ever happened. That seems to be a common tactic of WWDB leaders, to just pretend something never happened or to simply revise history to erase this memory. A good example was how Howie Dnazik built his diamondship as a single, when the truth is, he was married to Susan Danzik and went diamond with her, until their divorce. But ask any WWDB people and they'll deny it or make up some story that the marriage failure was all on Susan, when in fact, nobody has ever heard her side of the story.

There was a time when the Internet was fairly new, and WWDB leaders stood on stage and boldly proclaimed that nobody made a cent of profit on the tools and functions. Later, when the Internet exposed that as a lie, the narrative changed to how WWDB diamonds made a profit on tools and functions, but that their profits were minimal. If anyone can do the math on tools and functions, you can see how much profit is inevitable. The tools and functions have a much higher profit margin than Amway products but the rank and file IBOs don't get any portion of the tools and functions profits. For example, a cd or audio might cost pennies to make but if you pay $50 for WWDB premiere club play $2-3 for a cd or audio, upline makes hefty profits. The same goes for voicemail and books. But the major events such as Dream Night, or family reunion are significant profit makers. You might pay anywhere from $75 to $125 for a function ticket and maybe 10-20 thousand people are in attendance. The IBOs provide a lot of the labor for free (ushers, etc) and the set up is basically mics and some video screens, nothing elaborate.

What many people also don't see is that a city or county gives discounts on venues if you're bringing 10 to 20 thousand visitors to their city. I can only imagine how much actualy profit is made by the diamonds on these functions, not to mention they sell shirts, audios and other materials at these functions. Whatever happened to that WWDB challenge? MOst IBOs or leaders will pretend it never happened or make some excuse as to why they could not meet the challenge. To me, the answer is obvious. 

Humorous IBOs?

 I get a kick out of IBOs who make outlandish claims and then mumble and stumble to back up their claims, or to offer at least a verbal explanation of their claims. I believe many IBOs, newbies in particular are loaded with enthusiasm, but lacking in actual Amway business knowledge. Certain groups have a certain philosophy, which sometimes comes out in a conversation. But I believe in most cases, the philosophy is one of talk and not action. Amway's own numbers seem to back up many of the claims made by critics, such as the low amount of sales to people who are not IBOs.

I recently saw a blog post by a WWDB IBO who says he got a nice tax refund from the government, mainly because of his business deductions. He also claims that his Amway business is booming and that he is making money. Now I'm not a tax genius, but if you are writing off losses on your business, you would get a refund, and if you were actually making money, then you would actually be paying more taxes because you taxable income would then be higher. It's amazing how some IBOs will try to fake success in ways that clearly show they are putting up a facade.

Other obvious ways are IBOs who say they are brand new in Amway but are making over $5000 a month. Now I do believe that it can be "possible" to make some money in Amway, and obviously some people do make a nice income from Amway, but generally, these will be tenured higher pins. The vast majority of IBOs do not make any significant money from Amway and if these same IBOs were participating in the teaching systems such as Network 21, WWDB, or BWW, then they are likely ending up with a net loss because the monthly expenditures for voicemail, functions, books and standing orders exceed (by far) the monthly income for most IBOs.

Even diamonds who want to flash fancy cars and gadgets. I believe many of these diamonds are not making as much as they want you to believe and in fact, if you just get a calculator and figure out what a flashy lifestyle costs, you will see that it will simply not be sustainable on Amway income, even when you factor in the tools income. Some diamonds whose incomes were exposed when they quit or had legal proceedings indicate that while a diamond (or higher) income may be nice, it will not sustain the kinds of lifestyles they speak about at Dream Night functions, or other functions where great wealth is displayed.

They may be fooling (some) new prospects, but they do not fool me and I hope they do not fool you. But it is funny when you see it happening.

Amway Profits?

 I find it humorous when so many Amway IBOs talk about their anecdotal stories of success, or talk about how their system teaches a foolproof way of succeeding in Amway. Yet I have not seen a single IBO who was willing to describe their business structure or talk about how they progressed from zero PV into a profitable structure. Amway's biggest defender, David Steadson AKA IBOfightback is a good example of someone who can talk a good game but cannot back it up with evidence of any success in Amway. In fact, where is David Steadson these days? Looks like he's finally dropped out of the Amway debate.

Back in my IBO days, WWDB leaders would teach that someone who could talk a good game was a teacher, and not a doer. Many IBOs may have a good theory about how to build a business but evidence clearly shows that it is talk and not action. One specific example is how an IBO is supposed to find 20 customers who each buy 20 PV from an IBO. Nobody I know of or heard of has ever had 20 customers who regularly purchase the equivalent of 20 PV each month consistently. Sure, there might be some rare IBO who does a lot of sales, but given Amway's less than competitive prices, most IBOs likely have sympathetic family and friends as their primary customers, if they have any customers. It's difficult to sell generic types of products for premium prices.

Based on my observations, most IBOs have a small business, unable to sponsor enough downline to move any significant volume. They faithfully self consume 100 PV and do most of the CORE steps, except for being able to consistently show the plan and sponsor downline. Why is this? It is because the Amway reputation is stained and getting people to see the plan is an enormous challenge by itself, not taking into consideration that sponsoring is even harder. If you are reading this blog and you can relate to what you see here, perhaps you need to re-think your business situation and ask your sponsor some tough questions. If your Amway business is not progressing as they show in the plan, when will it ever? Or what will you change if your upline's teaching is not helping you progress? Your upline might say "never quit", but sometimes a wise business decision is to quit and do something else. That's not quitting on your dreams, but simply finding a better venue to achieve them.

Now this leads to another question. Other than flashing a photocopy of someone's diamond bonus or the like, has your sponsor or anyone upline actually showed evidence of a profit in Amway? If you asked, what response did you receive? When I asked my sponsor about profit, I was told it was "none of my business". I believe that someone who is asking you to follow their system, which is not free, should be tasked with providing this information. If your upline teaches submission to upline, even more so you should demand to see results. If your upline refuses to show evidence of a profit, why should you follow their advice?

If your upline or sponsor refuses to show you evidence of profit, it should send up red flags all over the place. Maybe, just maybe, the critics of Amway are onto something.

Amway Business Expenses?

 Many uplines will use slightly deceptive recruitment tactics when getting new people to see or register into the Amway business. One of the common things was how joining Amway has very little risk, no or very little overhead. This is true, if an IBO is not involved in any of th system related training. However, it is the goal of many if not most uplines to get as many IBOs involved in the system as possible. This is probably because selling standing orders, voicemails and seminars has a higher profit margin for some uplines than the actual movement of Amway volume. So some newbies might join thinking Amway won't cost them much, only to find out that 100 PV might run them more than $300. They may not be aware that standing orders and functions never end and can add an additional cost of up to several hundreds of dollars more. Uplines will then justify the expense by saying the IBO is investing in his/her business.

New IBOs, and especially IBOs who are single should seriously think about the cost of being a business building IBO before joining. Many or most prospects don't know that building an Amway business using system tools and "coaching" can cost them up to $500 or more each month. A single person more than likely cannot possibly consume 100 PV worth or products on a monthly basis unless they almost exclusively consume XS drinks and Nutrilite vitamins. And secondly, how many singles or prospects were consuming cases of energy drinks and vitamins ($300 monthly) before being presented with the Amway business? How many people were willing to fork out hundreds of dollars for a weekend function that may require airfare and hotel stay? I don't think too many people like this exist. But I believe they do so because they have been sold a dream of financial freedom, of early retirement and not having to work a job anymore. But the evidence would suggest that once the dream disappears or reality sets in, how many (former) IBOs continue to purchase Amway products and attend seminars?

I know of many former IBOs and I don't know of any who purchase Amway products on a regular basis and I don't know of ANYONE who has ever forked out money to attend an Amway/AMO function after they stopped being an IBO. Amway's numbers bear out this claim as there is very little sales to people who are not IBOs. The IBO salesforce is responsible for consuming the lion's share of Amway's products and services. I myself have purchased an Amway product or two since I left the business. But I did so only to humor friends who were still in the business. They have all since quit. It is very reasonable to conclude that once the desire to build the business stops, the desire to purchase Amway products also stops.

Most eager young and motivated people who sign up often do not realize that these IBO expenses exist. While Amway acknowledges that these tools and systems expenses are optional, the uplines who promote the tools may suggest that it is insanity to attempt to build an Amway business without the tools or strongly encourage new IBOs to partake. A common statement was that we "needed" to be at the next function no matter what. Missing it would set your business back six months. New IBOs and prospects don't know better so they will often conform. Sadly, there is ZERO unbiased evidence that the tools and seminars do anything to increase IBO volume and/or the sponsorship rate. In my informed and experienced opinion, the tools are ineffective and the vast majority if IBOs would be better off handing their upline a monthly check for $100 and not building the business or buying any products.

IBOs and information seekers should be awar of these potential IBO expenses and determine if the expenses would be worth your while. Keep in mind that someone upline profits handsomely from the tools, even if you do not make a cent from your Amway business. You should have your best interest at heart, no matter what your upline tells you.

How Amway Diamonds Prosper?

 One of the things that many Amway IBOs do not understand is where the upline diamond profits actually come from. They think they will obtain passive residual income but most do not understand how it works or where the money comes from. What most people see instead, is a photocopy of an upline's check, or they may see upline driving a nice car or something like that. They do not understand how the business works and the fact that there are two businesses at work. The Amway opportunity and the tools (business support materials) business. Frankly, most IBOs would be much better off giving their upline a check for $50 each month and never getting involved in the Amway opportunity to begin with.

Upline diamonds (or higher ups) earn some income from the movement of products. Amway returns about 33+% of their gross in the form of bonuses. Most (active business building) IBOs earn 3% while uplines split up the remaining 30% of the bonus. Not such a great deal when you think about it. Also, most IBOs overspend on Amway products. They are not simply replacing what they normally buy. If they did, then there would be tons of former IBOs continuing to move 100 PV or more. Instead, when an IBO quits, they either buy nothing from Amway anymore, or they may use a few products here and there. The opportunity and the way it is promoted simply creates an artificial demand for Amway products. If the products were so great, why then after 50 years of business, why the Amway sales aren't going through the roof if former Amway IBOs get hooked on the products and keep buying them? The answer is that they typically stop buying once the "dream" of residual income ends.

Then you have the tools business where IBOs don't even get a measly 3% of the profits. Uplines keep all of the tool profits. Also, the tools have a higher profit margin than Amway products. While this may seem acceptable on the surface, keep in mind that the tools are inefficient. There is no unbiased evidence that I know of that suggests that the tools create a natural progression of IBOs from 0 PV to diamond. I cannot name more than a few new diamonds in the US since I left the business in 1997 or 1998. And even if there were some new diamonds, I believe there were even more who quit or left Amway for other reasons. One might wonder why a diamond would quit in the first place if there really was residual passive income involved.

So where does upline profits come from? Simple, it comes directly out of the pockets of downline. If IBOs actually sold products, then some profits would come from sales and customers. Instead, most Amway sales are simply made from upline to downline. And virtually ALL sales in the tools business comes from upline to downline. Thus many IBOs spend $250 to $300 a month on products and get back $10 if they reach 100 PV. Then you factor in the $100 to $250 monthly that IBOs typically spend on tools. Suddenly that cheap or no risk opportunity doesn't sound so cheap. And try working it for several years and IBOs can easily rack up tens of thousands of dollars of expenses or more.

That's where upline profits come from folks. Do the math, most IBOs truly would be better off giving upline a check for $50 a month and doing nothing else.

Amway IBOs "Talk" A Good Plan?

 Having blogged for a number of years now, I have observed that Amway IBOs talk a good game about retailing, sponsoring and doing Amway business activities. They will tell you to set yourself up with 20 customers, sponsor 6 frontline, show a number of plans and set up certain follow ups with contacts, and doing other activities supposedly to build an Amway business. I find if humorous when these same IBOs start throwing insults or diverting the discussion when someone asks if they are actually making money. Of course it would be understandable if a new IBO would admit they had not made a fortune as of yet but it seems that even that response is not forthcoming from IBOs.  

It seems that the Amway business is simple enough. Buy some products, sell products and try to sponsor some downline in order to leverage your volume with your downlines. IBOs mistakenly believe that you can build it once correctly and that the income will flow into future generations. What goes unnoticed is that IBOs come and go with such a high frequency, that a business generating residual income would be like a sandcastle on the beach. You might build it nice and big but the waves of attrition would quickly turn that sandcastle into nothing. The same would be true of an Amway business. The IBOs dropping out would wipe out your business unless you are constantly replacing the people who quit. IBOs like to talk about Amway sales and how the company is growing in sales, but the Amway sales have no relationship with making IBOs more profitable. 

IBOs may also toss in comments about how they are nicer people or how they are improving their marriage because of the Amway business. I often wonder how that can be when functions and meetings take you away from your family and spouse. I suppose it could be because the uplines talk about people being nicer or tossing out lies about Amway and the AMOs saving marriages. I remember a WWDB diamond talking about how WWDB members had a 2% divorce rate while the rest of society has a 60% divorce rate. Ironically, that diamond's marriage ended in divorce. I believe this crap is still taught as a WWDB IBO who blogs, had mentioned this tidbit on his blog last year. I don't believe Amwayers or anyone else has a higher or lower rate of divorce than society but it becomes an issue when uplines teach it and their downlines repeat it. 

So it would seem that IBOs talk a good game. They know what to say and how to act, but they're like poker players who are bluffing. If you call them on it, they are likely to fold in their hands because they don't have the goods. It is why many Amway discussions turn into a insult contest, when the IBO suddenly gets confronted with facts that are contrary to upline teaching. It's usually quite funny but I wonder if these folks question their upline or go on their merry way repeating uplines lies? It becomes apparent to everyone but the IBO when they are repeating crazy stuff taught by their upline. Good luck to anyone who tries to build this business against nearly insurmountable odds.

If Not Amway, Then What?

 One of the humorous things that Amway IBOs often bring up is that someone who sees Amway in a critical eye should bring up viable alternatives. I mean if someone prevents you from falling over a cliff, they should have warned you and given you alternatives right? If I recognized you getting were conned by a conman, I should find viable financial investments for you before warning you of the potential scam you are about to walk into right? It sounds completely ridiculous but Amway IBOs have actually made those comments on this blog and some other Amway related websites.

Well, let's explore a few of these alternatives anyway just for fun. How about you stay home and do nothing? For most IBOs, you would be better off financially than committing your time and resources into Amway's products and their ineffective training materials and functions. If you are really dedicated to tools, sending your upline a check for $50 monthly and not buying Amway goods or related training materials would make you better off. Isn't it ironic that
doing nothing makes you better off than Amway?

A second job where you actually receive a paycheck is a better alternative. While there's no hype and hopes of getting rich in 2-5 years, you can do much for your future by saving a portion of that pay check each month. If you are young, this especially applies to you. But anyone can help their future by saving and investing. Even someone who panhandles is more likely to have more net cash than most Amway IBOs since most Amway IBOs make nothing or lose money.

Sure, some people do make money in Amway and some make a lot of money. The problem is they make money by exploiting their downlines and those hopeful downlines basically have no hope. In other words, you profit by selling false hope and false dreams. Basically, you can gain wealth in Amway by being a conman. Can you live with yourself in order to profit at any cost? What the upline does is extract $100 or a few hundred dollars a month from a lot of people.

I haven't even gone into the amount of time lost chasing prospects and attending functions. Your time might be the most valuable commodity that is lost chasing the 2-5 year dream. Ask yourself this question. Where are these diamonds who did the 2-5 year plan living in luxury and doing nothing? I have asked this over the years numerous times and not a single Amway defender can name someone and provide a shred of evidence that it's true.

Accountability?

 Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Possibly millions of downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will take credit for meager success, but place the blame on the downline when success is not there. Upline will claim that they either did not try hard enough, were not teachable enough, or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. I believe it's obvious that the system and the upline advice is severely flawed.

In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.

The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, questionable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.

Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.

The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.

Endless Motivation?

 I believe that Amway IBOs have approximately a 50% attrition rate for the first year alone. If you look at a 5 year window, I believe the attrition rate is something like 95%. So what we're saying is that out of 100 IBOs, only 5 will be around in 5 years, or out of 1000 IBOs, 50 will remain after 5 years. This is extremely significant because if you are a business builder, you will need to replace half of your IBOs every single year. For this reason, I am very doubtful that there are IBOs who "built the business right and built it once", who no longer do Amway related work, but still collect significant residual income. I would guess that significant income could be defined as being enough to live a lifestyle in the top tax bracket (for the US) without having to report to a J-O-B. 

Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?

Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.

All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank

"CORE", Guaranteed Success?

 Breakdown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use. Some things may have changed but the general premise is likely the same:

1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)

2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)

3 – Tapes/cds/audios

4 - Books

5 - Functions (attend all)

6 - Accountability

7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)

8 - Buy 100% of your own products

9 – Communikate (Voicemail)


Many upline will tell you that your success is 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).

Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.

Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.

Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..

What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.

That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't. :D

Amway Creates The "Most" Millionaires?

 I had a great LOL in that my former post titled “Blatant Upline Lies” elicited a comment that up until 1998, Amway had created more millionaires than all other business combined,   It was ironic that this blatant lie appeared appropriately in that thread.  I’m pretty sure Wall Street has created more millionaires than Amway hands down.   Amway IBOs and recruits assume that all of the diamonds are millionaires but they fail to see how a diamond lifestyle can be expensive to upkeep and diamonds may indeed be living in debt or check to check like many in the US.

We know that the owners of Amway have done well, being listed as billionaires.  But how would anyone know who might be a millionaire in Amway.  The diamonds don’t release their financial details and would likely tell you it’s none of your business if you asked for business related financials.  So many indoctrinated IBOs and Amway apologists assume that diamonds are wealthy beyond belief but the fact remains that nobody really knows.  Now I don’t think that there aren’t any millionaires in Amway but to think Amway created more millionaires that all other business combined up through 1998 is hogwash.  Microsoft corporation itself probably created more millionaires than Amway during the same time frame if you count stock holders of which I am one.

Some years ago I was curious so I emailed a local hotel (On Maui)  to ask how many diamonds were in attendance at diamond club when they were in Hawaii for that event.   While I no longer have the email. I was told that 160 people were in attendance.  That 160 included wives and kids.  But hey, let’s assume they are all millionaires.  160 millionaires plus maybe a few who could not attend is more millionaires than all business combined through 1998?  Seriously?  Diamonds must teach these lies and sadly, prospects and IBOS believe it.

If the diamonds want to tell lies to strengthen their case for Amway, you’d think they could come up with a better story.  Anyone ever wonder why there is seemingly a huge lack of Amway retirees as diamonds are forever in terms of working.  They apparently work until they drop although they pitch early retirement as an enticement for people to join which I find humorous and ironic.  😎

Investing Is Gambling?

 One of the biggest loads of guano told by upline diamonds was that the stock market was essentially gambling.  As if buying shares in a solid company was like betting on a hand of blackjack or red or black on a spin of the wheel on roulette.  This is extremely dangerous teaching on the part of the diamonds.  I often wonder if the diamonds themselves are invested into the stock market themselves? Let’s face it, for an average middle class person, investing at a young age can be a means to grow wealth in the long run.   I was able to retire early because of sound investments in companies such as Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, etc.   These company's owners are wealthy because of the stocks in their company.

I can agree that day trading can be a form of gambling because you aren’t giving the stock and the company to overcome short term setbacks and problems.  But let me give you food for thought about something I figured out a in the late 1990s.  It seemed like every so often when you read the news, Bill Gates kept getting wealthier and wealthier.  It wasn’t because he was putting his money in a bank.  He owned billions of dollars in Microsoft stock.  Having had that revelation, I bought shares of Microsoft as well and I haven’t sold a share yet although I am now retired.   The stock took some damage due to the covid 19 hysteria but has recovered nicely since April 2020.

Now I’m not claiming to be uver rich because of that investment but I have a nice small fortune because of it.  I also own shares in other companies as well but I won’t discuss that here.  I do recall a tape made by a diamond named Dave Severn where he downplayed investing and said a broker gave him a hot tip on a stock and he said something like (not verbatim) “listen here Ace, I’ll put up as much money as you are”.  As if stock brokers aren’t willing to invest in their own advice.  

Let’s look on the other side of the coin.  Diamonds advise prospects and IBOS to invest in tools and functions. I’d say that’s a much greater gamble since you can research Amway’s own numbers on their website and extrapolate that only about 1/4 of 1 percent ever reach platinum and out of those, only a small fraction ever reach diamond.  I’d venture to say confidently that you can invest in most companies with a proven track record and you’ll make positive gains in the stock as well as dividends in many cases.

Smart investing is not gambling but I’d say pouring money into an Amway business plus buying into the tools and functions gives you a worse chance of making a net profit than a day in Las Vegas.   Don’t believe me?  Who are among the richest men in the world?  Bill Gates?  Jeff Bezoes?  Warren Buffet?   They didn’t make their money with Amway.  While the Amway owners are billionaires, you can note that they are not Amway distributors.  They own the MLM company, which can be lucrative when you have armies of distributors working for commission only and no benefits such as medical insurance.

Serious food for thought.

Never Quit - Because.......?

 When I was an Amway IBO, I heard the saying over and over. Never quit, success might be right around the corner. There were countless stories by diamonds and emeralds of how they were on the verge of quitting, but stuck it out and somehow "made it". I also heard stories about why people should not quit because even if you were told "no" a thousand times, the next prospect might say "yes" and turn your entire business around. This mindset is almost like a gambler who thinks the next hand or the next roll of the dice will suddenly start the beginning of a good run.

I believe these are all heartfelt stories. However, I believe that many stories are embellished and made to order. Or in other words, made to fit a standing order. If you listen carefully to many of the standing orders, you will notice that the higher pins were consistently sponsoring people and generally achieved the platinum level in 18 months or less. There are exceptions of course, but the majority of stories I heard seem to have had the same theme. Those who were destined for success achieved some significant level in less than 2 years.

But for IBOs and new recruits, if you aren't constantly bringing in new people to the open meetings, and sponsoring new people, then you are very unlikely to ever achieve much in Amway. Statistically, less than one half of one percent ever reach platinum. Thus if you are unable to grow your organization or group, then you are unlikely to be that one who "makes it". Success is not around the corner as some uplines will have you believe. If you take 100 "no's" and then someone finally says "yes" then chances are that person who said yes, will "do nothing", or do little and wind up quitting. Chances are that person won't sponsor anyone or show anyone the plan. Chances are that person won't even be in the business a year later.

It might be a good idea for IBOs to take a step back and take an unbiased look at their business and their business activities. Is your group growing consistently? Is your volume increasing each month? Are you able to get people interested in seeing the plan on a consistent basis? If you answered "no" to any of these points, then you are unlikely to progress and achieve in the Amway business.

One important thing for people to note is that there are many ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams. Amway is probably not the best vehicle for most. The numbers speak for themselves. If less than one half of one percent ever reach platinum, where allegedly, IBOs finally see a profit, then I would say your chances of success are better elsewhere, even if that is a second job. The average "active" IBO earns about $200 a month according to Amway. Considering all IBOs, then the average income is probably about $100 a month. You can earn much more than that working 4-5 hours a week at minimum wage.

Is success right around the corner? I doubt it.

Love Your Job?

 One of the things I heard WWDB speakers say on more than one occasion was that nobody "loves" their job. They claimed that if you loved your job, you would do it for free. But that claim is silly. I could turn it around and ask the Amway diamonds if they loved Amway so much, would they do it for free? They might lie and say yes, but the fact remains that these folks are not traveling from function to function out of love. They do it because speaking at functions is a lucrative "job". Additionally, the functions are recorded and turned into a standing order, which is then sold to IBOs.

Truth be told, I am somewhat dedicated to giving information to Amway prospects and information seekers because I don't want them to get ripped off based on lies and deception by upline leaders, who apparently still teach the same old junk today, that was taught many years ago. Amway apologists have their heads so far up her fanny (ass) that they cannot tell up from down. Apologists claim that WWDB is changing for the better, despite participating on a blog by a WWDB IBO who repeats the same garbage I heard as an IBO 13 - 14 years ago. There's a seemingly nice kid named Shaun who runs his blog as a journal of his WWDB experiences. There he speaks about getting out of debt (No apparent thanks to Amway income) and saving up to purchase a home in cash, getting a bigger tax refund (despite claiming to make money in Amway) and he also mentioned that IBOs have a 2% divorce rate versus the rest of the world with a 60% divorce rate. All of these things were taught by WWDB uplines back in 1997 and 1998 when I was an IBO. It's all there for everyone to see, yet stupid people like Bridgett Baron continue to deny it. What is their agenda? Clearly, the vast majority of people who join Amway either do little or nothing and those who work hard usually end up losing money because of the system expenses such as voicemail, functions and standing orders. That is a fact. IBOFB and Bridgett Baron are apparently not interested in facts but they want to promote their version of the "Truth About Amway".

I would also like to point out that my former uplines and WWDB leaders such as Greg Duncan and Brad Duncan apparently did not work out of love. Even though some WWDB leaders outright lied and said Diamonds did not earn anything from tools, we now know that they lied and that they are/were likely compensated for every single appearance and that rank and file struggling IBOs footed the bill.

Yes, people don't work their jobs out of love. Everyone needs to earn a living, but don't be fooled. Diamonds do not work for love either. They work, likely because they also have to earn a living, just like people who have jobs. Just because they may show you pictures of mansions and sports cars doesn't mean they own them outright or that they can even comfortably afford them.

It is very sad that so may people over the years, possibly tens of millions have suffered financial losses as a result of inaccurate information or deception and lies used to recruit people into Amway. While it may not be (directly) Amway's fault, the fact is that many many these people had bad experiences and financial losses. The facts are there for those who seek the facts. It is why Joecool hasn't yet quit the blogging community.

I would also like to note that IBOFightback and Bridgett Baron really should stop slandering/libeling Joecool with their false accusations without proof or evidence. There are lawyers in Hawaii too. Anna Banana, if you read this post, you can help show that IBOFB and Bridgett Baron are just obsessed Amway defenders who are wrong once again with their accusations.

I wonder if IBOFB aka David Steadson and Bridgett Baron work for love - or for Amway? :-) (Note the smiley?)
Posted by Joecool at 9:42 PM