Monday, April 5, 2010

Amway - The Amway Critics Have Won?

I've been blogging for about 6 years now and I have seen many others come and go, both supporters and critics of Amway. There have been good debates, but the critics have come out on top because the truth is on that side of the ledger. While there are some very rare IBOs who build their Amway businesses ethically, the majority of IBOs end up in some LOS that will sell them tools consisting of typically, voicemail service, cds, books, and seminars or functions. The problem with these materials is that they don't work and most system IBOs end up with a financial loss primarily because of the cost of these materials. Ironically, many uplines gain their luxurious lifestyles by selling the system rather than from Amway.

Recently, some IBOs were bragging about how Amway sales increased from 8.2 billion to 8.4 billion from 2008 to 2009. However, considering that sales were up in India nd China, one can reasonably conclude that the sales in North America had to be down. I believe this is because information seekers using the internet can easily access websites containing valuable information like this one. I believe that the free flow of information has allowed potential IBOs to make informed decisions and apparently, many people are simply choosing not to get involved with Amway, thus the decrease in sales and an apparent decrease in Amway supporters visible on the internet. I also believe that this has led to fewer Amway critics as well. Overall, I see this as a positive sign that people are seeing right through unethical uplines and their bottom lines are shrinking.

I believe that because Amway may not be quite as lucrative as before, you are seeing diamonds quit, resign, or even take their entire groups to a new MLM. If Amway really had lifelong residual income as many IBOs mistakenlt believe, you would see or hear about diamonds walking away from Amway to walk the beaches of the world while the money rolls in. Sadly, that is a myth and while many chase that dream, I don't know of anyone who's achieved it. It is why crown ambassadors and double diamonds are still working, quite possibly because they have to.

Have the Amway critics won? I don't know but the evidence is pointing to "yes".


James Carlson said...

A life of freedom...We have all the time in a day, so long as allowed to live it, and in a night also, to invest in other people...of all statures in life, without bias or pre-judgement, at THEIR convenience, business or not business, always as help glorify (make recognizable) the One True God.
Who is not subject to your perspectives. He TOO, of all things, is maligned by others. Perspective is key.

Do you consider yourself a good person?
Romans 3:23. Read it. Romans 6:23 Read it too.
John 14:6. Hmmm
GOOD NEWS though, if you ever feel scammed by Jesus, you can also cast Him aside too, since so many hypocrites claim identity in Him also....and return to your fruitless belief that YOU TOO are god! (there are consequences, though so ya may relinquish your understanding to His definitions; otherwise perish in more ways than eternal.)

P.S. for whatever it may be worth to the seeker:
Amway will refund your signup fee if you change your mind, will refund your purchase price of products they sell up to 180 days after purchase! WWDB also will refund for tool purchases 180 days after purchase as well. If a scam, WHY is this fact straight-up available and supported in truth, as well as published in their own documentations?
If allowed, my personal contact email is
Since I do not intend on wasting time on this Rant-site, and instead serving others (as I hope I have here somewhat for the Truth-seeking reader), please contact me with any questions or suggestions you may have. For those in Christ, remember the Comission, have compassion for the Lost, and always place yourselves in roles of True discipleship, servanthood, and always continue pressing onward to fulfilling the Purpose for which you are here, under the Power and Guidance of the Holy Spirit.
May you hear "Well Done" daily, and on that Day! Luke 19:12-27

Since I don't have an account here to identify myself, I unabashedly share
My name: James A. Carlson
My location: Liberty Lake, WA
My IBO #: 3871088
My site:

I would be more than willing to meet anyone face to face, anytime. By the way, I tell people about Amway Global while first talking about the opportunity~~not in some shady con, or after 2 hours of smoke & mirrors, and also not in meetings for church/seeking Christ. I talk about Him in both environments; money and business only in PROPER environments. Amway is pretty cool, but HE....He is everything amazing and everything Good. My ultimate Purpose is to help others truly know Him more, while seeking the same in Him for me and my home. Maybe these things existant in my character, identity, and life are why we ARE successful in about every aspect of our lives (which includes our business conduct and its reward).

James Carlson said...

Interesting points Derek; you've claimed to never have met anyone making it...I can come to Tacoma next time in Seattle and would love to introduce myself. What do you think?
Here's what I think:

Very sad to me how many shallow-ly informed people sit at their computers and nod at the negative about a great company that has had some selfish and mis-driven people try to apply it for success, which ended and ends up tainting a great opportunity. Are you not similarly-duped by the words of others? OF COURSE there are TONS of idiots out there, many of whom have trudged through the ranks of this business opportunity, your name lists, and even had YOU on their list of contacts! There have been many TRAINERS of like-lack-of-character...DON'T FOLLOW or imitate them! The ones who imitate Christ? Yeah, imitate their Source too! Quite simple, really.

People scam people. In all walks of life, it happens.

I am foremost a Christian under the influence of the Holy Spirit. I understand and daily strive to fulfill the Great Commission. (Talk about "failures"??? 80% of all claimed-Christians go to the physical grave having never shared the Gospel with another, and yet STILL have a chance to enter into His Presence, under STARK disobedience!)

Secondly, I am a husband to a beautiful wife. We have been on our honeymoon for over a year now (married Jan. 8, '09), in full-time ministry together, almost every hour of every day.

For income, We ARE IBO's, Personally sponsored by one of the improperly-titled & aforementioned "king pins" (who wasn't personally mentioned: Severn), who themselves are personally sponsored by the founder of WWDB Ron & G.L. Puryear. We have no need of jobs, personally retiring from a $60,000/yr income in property management; my wife of similar income level as a previous occupational therapist, 'retired' from it over 2 years ago as a result of honest business income, ethic, and progress. We have no debt, except our home's mortgage payment. Everything else we have is not owned by the bank. Ultimately, it's ALL God's including even our own selves, but we "manage" it, free and clear.

Contrary to MOST, we actually made profit from week-one. I had profited over $800 after my first two weeks, walked away from my well-paying (and relative to most jobs: GREAT job environment) about a year and a half thereafter. I've not returned to a job since, nor do I intend to. My girlfriend at the time, who is now my wife (Thank GOD!) worked her job until just before we got engaged, and by the grace and provision of our Source will never need work for another person (other than those we serve in ministry) again.
We've benefitted others (upline, downline, crossline, non-business people, and the economy in numerous ways---including (!) the 5+ jobs we gave to others when our employers have tried to since replace our productivity we had once-provided while chained to them.

Joecool said...

Hi James, who is Derek?

Joecool said...

James you should read proverbs. Better a poor man whose ways are clean rather than a rich man whose ways are perverse.

Or Timothy, where is says it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than it is for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle.

rocket said...

I thought we were talking about the Amway business Carlson. Then you go off on some sort of sermon?

Really? That's how you run your business? OK. Good luck with that.

By the way, who the hell is Derek?

Joecool said...

James, what do you think of the non denominational services that WWDB provides at functions and what do you think of the excessive lifestyles that WWDB leaders display at the dream night function? What do you think about Greg Duncan bragging about all his cash and then going bankrupt? What do you think about Wolgamott saying Amway savies marriages and then divorcing?

Anonymous said...

Hi "James"

Maybe instead of copying and pasting the same comment from Derek's "Amway Functions Suck" blog - maybe actually address the issue - in your own words, and not some pre-scripted diatribe.

Sorry "James" - the old BS lines don't work anymore. Too many of us "critics" were front-line go-getters, showing the plans, driving the miles, doing EVERYTHING our wonderful Diamond "mentors" told us to do. Guess what, the system DOES NOT WORK!!! Period!

BTW - I thought this was a business?

Joecool said...

The critics have won. The IBO's are just desperately trying to justify themeselves. Not a single IBO has ever stepped up to prove that their group made a net profit.

James Carlson said...

Joe...WHY must you "approve" comments before they post to your blog? What are you afraid of? address you all in brief IF this posts accurately!

"step up" Joe? I'm offering to meet you. Where is your openness to my invitation?

Anon? WHY do you post anonymously? You have no credibility in your statements without some integrity of your identity. By the way, WHO do you think "pre-scripted" my comments? Oh, perhaps my LIFE?! :) Jeesh, relax. Truth is truth: Unchanging and real.

Joecool, I've studied and read Proverbs hundreds of times in my life, and continue today. :) but honestly, thank you for the suggestion, in case I was unaware. (I do agree that it is for ANY man who's way is clean than ANY man who's way is or poor! What about someone who's ways are clean AND has a bountiful life?!)

Dude....REALLY?! Show me where in Timothy that you pulled that verse from about the needle! It was/is Jesus who said it to his disciples, you dork.....but STILL Truth! Do you know what the "eye of a needle" even is? I bet you thought it has something to do with sewing!? LOL dude, it's a small hole in the wall that surrounded cities for protection...firstly, He did NOT say it was impossible, just "harder".

How much money do YOU have Joe? What have you compromised to get it? You have a ARE a rich man! Compared to whom, Mr. Self-Righteous??? Do you have clothes to wear, a house with running water and electricity? Your hypocrisy is already are "richer" on this earth than Jesus was while on the earth and His immediate followers were. Be careful, that needle of yours has a small hole.

Anon...again, before casting blame of me copying and pasting, why don't you know that Joecool-down does the very same thing? I've seen his rant repeated again and again, not only here on his 'glorious' blog, but on other blogs in which I've read. I am NOT saying it's wrong to do so, sometimes seems necessary to be heard wherever the reader may find such a relax.

Regarding Wolgamott? You have NO idea how eager I am to meet the guy face to face. I believe in reconcilliation. The guy made foolish choices (just like even us all are prone to making!) and I would love the opportunity to slap some respectable sense into him. He let gobs of people down, including himself...but I for one do not judge him. While he's still breathing there is hope for him...just as there is for all of us.

Rocket, I was talking about both. If you don't like hearing about God and my amazing relationship with Him He has allowed, you wouldn't like playing racquetball with me either, or watersports, travelling, ANYTHING really. I do not separate Him from me in any activity or conduct I participate in. It's "okay" Rocket. Apparently we have our you said, I say to you: "good luck with that".

Anon, thanx for clarifying who Derek may be. :)

Joey...THIS ibo does not try to justify himself. You claim to know Scripture, you should know that NO ONE can justify himself. All religions of the world try, but in the End are also failing. There is One alone Who justifies. IBOs or not, if they do not know that, are also lost themselves.

Joecool said...

Hi James, did I strike a nerve with my comments? I moderate my comments because in the past, a spammer did something to my blog that had it delisted from google, and to keep rubbish from 'Tex" out of here.

How much money do I have? Enough to own a home in Hawaii and to live comfortably. Why is that relevent to the TRUTH that most IBOs lose their shirts because of bad advice given by upline?

Greg Duncan bankrupt, Wolgamott seperated or divorced, Shores home foreclosed, Hawkins making up silly claims about perfect water.
These are leaders to be held in esteem? Please.

What truth are you seeking?

James Carlson said...

Thanx for the clarification Joe! :)
That totally makes sense why you'd moderate in order to avoid some of it in part. Thanx for allowing mine to post (although I didn't check to see if my actual comments were modified/moderated from original).
Striking nerves, since you asked...I don't think so. I was responding to your questions and statements. The relevance of the money and stuff you manage was in response to your comments about "the rich" and how the Bible warns against improper focus/balance with such that you brought to the table. I simply was clarifying to all that your blanket comments about IBOs, diamonds, whatevers are equally relatable to yourself, and just about any of your "followers" & readers. :)
Hawaii is GORGEOUS!!! My wife and I just spent 3 weeks in Maui.....yummy! Congratulations for living a healthy life there! Next time I'm visiting, would you like to meet?
I know of "Tex" but not who he is. Why would he be disallowed from commenting? Strikes too many nerves? Why not set a rule that there would be NO anonymous comments? Make people be willing to identify themselves in order to hold any respectability.....unless maybe this remains a dis-respectful blog, similar to a majority of all the others.

Why do you each post comments directed toward me and questions, ONLY on your blog-threads, when I stated in my introduction that I would not likely return to respond? Send it to my personal email, call me, or meet with me.

Again, I'm saddened that "innocent" passers-by would swallow all the negative comments on some electronic forum, without having credible basis.

I don't know what claims Hawk is making about Perfect water, but have you tried it? :) Would not recommend it for just drinking water, but for someone seeking a premium water, especially for's pretty-fantastic stuff! I personally love it.

I agree, to some point, about "please" be wary and careful about whom we esteem.

Joe, you ask what truth I'm seeking, right?

"Seek and you shall find". I've sought, and long-ago found Truth. (John 14:6) He continues to reveal Himself to me. Now, I'm an ambassador carrying the Truth to our decaying Generation, if there be any who yet listen.

We chose to fund our lifestyle & full-time ministry through our legitimate AmwayGlobal business, instead of a job, investments-otherwise, or milking financial support from the church we attend, which you can see a glimpse of via my website.

Joecool said...

Hi James, I do not modify comments. I only allow or disallow. I allow most comments unless they are spam or unless they are filled with profanity.

Tex is a forum troll. If you call him you will find out. He has been banned from all credible blogs and even some that aren't.

I suggest you read my profile and I am game for a discussion, but not in person as I have received threats of physical violence on this blog in the past. I wish to keep my anonymity.

James Carlson said...

dang man, I am very sorry to hear that! NOW I totally understand why you moderate (to a point), but more importantly why you choose anonymity! Dang, I hope to encounter anyone threatening you or anyone else, and somehow correct 'em, if possible.

Resultantly, I apologize for addressing you in ways like "Joey" or "Joecool-down"! It's just hard to know how to treat you accurately without having met you face to face, ya know? What once appeared to me to be hiding, was prudence for your situation. So, I'm sorry. Heck, for all I or we know, you COULD be a 14 year old girl and I should treat you like a lady!! ;)

I'm mostly kidding. :)

BUT, if I do return to addess anything in your blog-forum, I'll do what I can to treat you with more respect, having become aware of a little of your story.

While I'm at it...sorry for calling you a dork for mis-stating a location of Scripture, or demeaning you in any other way for such...I was wrong to do so. I possibly mis-took you, and classified you for a common fault thousands of people do to make a point and take stuff out of context to fabricate a certain stance/belief and claim it's Truth, when sometimes they are simple "Oprah-isms" or things that sound Biblical if repeated enough times by enough people.

I hope you are loving your day in Hawaii!! :)

Joecool said...

Thanks James. I look forward to some interesting discussions in the near future.

As I stated in my profile, I'm not one who never built the business. I was on the verge of platinum but not making money (due to system expenses) and my upline had become out of control, wanting control of my life.

My sponsor is a physician and last I heard, he is still active and has never gone beyond platinum. (Platinum but never Q12)

James Carlson said...

I know far too many occurances of "upline" wanting to control the lives of others. Such folk were rightly avoided by you. I counsel anyone I meet to not be controlled by ANY one, including a church, cult, friend, family member (unless it's a child who needs parenting that I'm talking with), job, school, or ibos...

Would you have continued if you could have progressed without the excessive tools-expense? Additionally if your mentors retained some level of sociable sanity?! ;) Maybe THAT is why my wife and I (as well as our growing team) are successful when others, like yourself at the time, were not.

James Carlson said...

for whatever it's worth, we are finding great success by avoiding such expenses for us and our downline-sponsored. There ARE expenses, but I help everyone understand to be prudent with participation, and only to do it when sensible, to a level that is sensible as well. Free websites, free function attendance (in part), downloadable ENTIRE CD & DVD library for less than $25 one-time.
The system of WWDB has changed drastically from what you experienced Joe (how many years ago was that, anyway?), atleast in necessary expense. FYI also, IF someone wants Kate (the voice messaging system), it is now available for less than $15/mo...however I can forward messages to downline interested, for free via email if they do not value the tool's expense.
There's an extra $500.00-ish profit (paid out in increments) from Amway Global available to new IBOs in their first 90-120 days too, which can be used to more-than pay for sign-up, tools, etc...or spent at the movies if the IBO chooses. :) (or heck, even some Maui Gold, hey?!)

But to receive that newly-added bonus, it takes some effort from the IBO, not just signing up and meeting the "active" definition so many in these blogs point to. Meaning, that "active" definition (as set during a 2001 survey) is really doing very little at all >>> To conduct the survey, these were the questions asked to determine if the IBO was active: Did you TRY to sell ONE product OR go to ONE meeting OR show some ONE the opportunity OR receive bonus money (which could be as low as 3 or so bucks!) in the course of 'this' entire year?
Saying yes to any of these questions lumped them also into the average income of an "active" IBO being $115.00/month.
Joe, in building the business, you knew that while those things ARE activity (sorta), they would not be what you would rightly define as someone actively building this (or any business for that matter), with a concerted effort worthy of justifying progressing with increasing overhead nor additional investments.
We counsel our team accordingly, so as to protect them from folly and additional financial trouble. If they are only IN Amway, but not into working the vehicle, we try to keep them aware that they needn't service it nor take the driving lessons, so-to-speak. Thereafter, if they are seriously wanting to learn to apply it to its respective potential, we often service the vehicle for them, and provide the lessons for free, until it makes sound-sense for them to clip the umbilical cord and ween from the teet. ;)

Anonymous said...

Jeez, I didn't realize by posting Anon it invalidated the question. But attacking the messenger is the easy way out.

Sorry, all the superior self-exalting under the guise of "Christianity" can't defeat the gift of discernment that Lord has blessed upon us little inferior tax-collectors.


Big John said...

Mate I just want to say I love this blog of yours.

I love reading about this legal pyramid scam that sucks people in. I feel sorry for the victims, but it makes for fascinating reading.

But I have to ask mate, what's with all the Amway trolls?

I'm an atheist and I’ve seen some very nasty trolls in some our forums- all of them die hard Christian nuts, but these Amway trolls would have to be some of the worst I’ve ever seen.

Also I have to ask do you think Amway can keep going indefinitely ? I wouldn't have thought so with all the horror stories you read on the net, surely a lot of there potential victims must be hearing about it by now.

Joecool said...

I believe that Amway sales are declining in the US. It is because Amway sales are primarily to IBOs. There are fewert people (IMO) becoming IBOs because of the easily accessible information available to potential recruits. The cool thing is my blog is being visited often by Chinese and Indian information seekers.

Joecool said...

James, what I find troubling about WWDB is that when I was an IBO, they taught and gave some bad advice. Such as buying homes only in cash. Happened a long time ago, still happens now. The also teach that Amway saves marriages which is a lie. What really gets me going is that WWDB leaders told many lies in the past and they were never held accountable for their actions.

James Carlson said...

Hey Joe,


WHOMEVER would ever say that a business or job or career saves marriages is either mistaken themselves, OR being mis-quoted, mis-understood, or taken out of context.

Having common goals as a team, or a household vision...sure does help. Not necessarily on one specific agenda (i.e. AMWAY), but being together to accomplish something is what marriage really is all about. Many people lose that when both spouses always do things separate from each other (which jobs often lead to, more often than not) and get so busy with life they forget about taking care of each other's needs, including the needs of their respective communities.

When that is lost in ANY endeavor, the marriage is tossed about by the waves...on the rocks...since the vision and purpose of unity has been lost.
All of us will be held accountable for our actions, as well as our motives behind them...some await that time for much later, others have exposure of such much sooner. Surely your time and mine will come relax, we ALL have our time of accountability.

The "Bad Advice" (as you call it) about buying home in cash, if you followed it...I would suppose that your home in Hawaii, if you own it/bought it in cash would be a very good thing. Why upset about that? I think it's awesome that you only pay tax & insurance on it, and enjoy it daily, as well as having something to pass onto those who follow in your stead, without payments!

Whichever the case man, whatever level of leadership I find myself in, I expect to not find myself speaking anything but Truth (and hey, you could be my friend by listening to what I say and correct me if wrong even!) and I hope that we will also be offering sound and wise advice to anyone who may hear our message.

Joecool said...

Jame, I sat in the audience and I heard several WWDB diamonds, including Brad Wolgamott say that Amway saves marriages. Ironic isn't it?

Buying a home in cash is great. But what these WWDB leaders told the audience and in counseling sessions is that you can ONLY buy a home if you can pay for it in cash. They still teach this in parts of WWDB.

My former sponsor is/was a physician. I have a friend in common with my former sponsor who sells real estate. A few years back he called my former sponsor and was told that he could not yet purchase a home because he would only consider buying a home in cash. Crazy.

Not to mention WWDB diamonds probably have mortgages. Except Greg Duncan who had his foreclosed. LOL :)

Anonymous said...

james, you're full of crap. end of story.