Friday, July 30, 2010

Amway - Winners and Losers?

One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.

26 comments:

Poster said...

Joecool! Welcome! How are you doing today? Let's continue our discussion from the 'Amway - The Residual Income Myth?' topic. You seem to have walked out of frustration like a little, crying girl who did not receive her lollipop yesterday. Today, you may. On one condition; if you pass the test this time. Yesterday, you were tested on your biblical knowledge of money and wealth and you have failed. Today, you will be tested on your biblical faith since you proudly claim to be a genuine Christian. And what better place to do that than under 'Amway - Winners and Losers?' So let's begin, tell us about your reaction as a Christian towards Amway.

Joecool said...

Poster from Canada, you're a funny guy. You got schooled abd failed to prove a single point. All you do is make long winded posts that say nothing. It's so very typical of IBOs. I wonder why that is.

Let me make myself clear. This is my blog. You don't get to make conditions and require me to take any of your "tests".

Poster said...

A true Christian passes the test or else he fails.

Joecool said...

I've passed the test. You just mistakenly think you get to judge whether I have passed or not.

Anna said...

Anonymous Poster from Canada - shut the fuck up! Typical Amway cult leader shoving biblical terms to the masses with no intent other than to cause confusion and sidestep reality. Too embarrassed to post your true identity? Just like those masked hoodlums at the G20 Summit in your country. If you want to be taken seriously show your face and don't hide behind a mask.

Poster said...

Anna, your language does not sound very Christian to me. So, let us test you, as we have tested Joecool to see if you are a genuine Christian. Anna, if you were to die tonight and God were to ask you, why should I let you in my kingdom, what would your answer be?

Anna said...

Hell no! I'm a satanist!

Joecool said...

Poster is just a troll pretending to know the Bible but cannot explain basic and simple principles. Hel also pretend to have a profit in Amway and is probably lying about that too.

Poster said...

So Anna, leaving jokes aside, do you know what God did for you so that you can escape Hell? Have you heard of Jesus Christ?

Joecool said...

Anonymous Poster from Ontario Canada, why do you keep writing religious questions? Please stay on topic or I will have to delete your ignorant and off topic messages. If youo actually knew what you were talking about, we could at least have a coherent conversation.

Poster said...

Joecool by this time it is obvious, at least to me, that your honest avoidance towards answering the question concerning your faith in Jesus Christ and Salvation as a test to verify your integrity claims of being a Christian man is a sign of your spiritual lost condition.
I'm sorry friend, you have failed this test as well. Your claims of being a born again Christian as of January 29, 2000 are bogus. You are a proud, lying and deceptive man. You are also lazy. Do you remember our discussion in the 'Amway - The Residual Income Myth?' topic where you said that 'I do not see the word "but" in this entire post. What are you talking about?'? Well, a quick search turned up the word 'but' in two more places. You only removed one instance of the word because the context in which you used it was placing you in an unfavorable position. Now, don't go back and try to edit that because as I told you last time, I have saved the page as evidence to show others. Don't incriminate yourself further, at least for now. You have plenty of time afterward. Be my guest. I wonder, what else can I discover about you?

Joecool said...

Poster (anonymous loser from Canada), you mistakenly think I owe you answers to questions unrelated to the topic at hand.

Poster said...

To me, personally, you don't owe answers to any questions. You are vindicated or condemned by the answers you give alone. You are responsible for your own actions. Apparently, you believe otherwise. You believe that Amway is responsible for your personal failure which is a reflection of your character: pride, rebellion, laziness, unbelief and deception. You even go as far as saying that Amway is responsible for everyone's failure because most people don't make it. It's true that most people don't make it and that is also true in life in general. Most people don't make it but few are willing to consider if that outcome is a result of their own choice instead of squarely blaming someone else.
The verdict is pretty clear here:
1) you did not submit into following the system to build your business. If you were to, you would be seeing good results. The system is not made by amateurs but by people whose experiences are the reason why the system is designed to ensure others follow a well established path to maximize output while minimizing mistakes. If you question the system, this business is not for you. Start your own business with your own system.
2) you have failed when it comes to your biblical knowledge of money and wealth. That explains in part your lack of common sense when it comes to the blessings of personal and financial independence. Even someone who doesn't know God but retains a dose of common sense would still understand what you fail to.
3) you have failed when it comes to your biblical faith on what God did for you to excuse you from Hell. If you were to die tonight, you would be on your way to Hell.
4) you have excelled when it comes to your claims of being a devout Christian but turned out to be a religious hypocrite.
5) you still play the victim.
That being said, continue to play what suits you well but whether or not you accept, 100% responsibility for one's own actions is what tests the real integrity of every man or woman.

Joecool said...

Anonymous cowardly Poster from Canada,

1. You apparently did not read my profile. I had a sizable Amway business, unlike you. I succeeded in spite of the system, not because of it.

2. You misunderstanding or refusal to understand is why you cannot comprehend the scriptures I cited. You have a self serving view of how the Bible views money and wealth.

3. I have a clear understanding. God made the ultimate sacrifice for us to have salvation. All we need to do is accept God's gift. You seems to be confused about this.

4. You call me a hypocrite but fail to say why.

5. I am not playing the victim. I am trying to prevent others from becoming a victim.

Poster said...

Joecool, rest assured that I read your profile and my belief is that your actions do not line up with what the system teaches. If you were to dedicate as much time and effort as you do here making the business work, you would see good results by now.
If you think that I have a self serving view of how the Bible views money and wealth, why don't you go ahead and start your own thing to create more personal freedom and financial security instead of sticking to a job that delivers temporary, fixed income and no practical security?
God made the ultimate sacrifice for us to have salvation... which is? I asked you to explain that in your own words but I didn't see you explain it clearly and coherently.
And lastly, how are you trying to prevent others from becoming a victim when you yourself are a victim of not knowing what you are fighting against?

Joecool said...

Anonymous Poster from Canada, please take lessons in logic. I was at 4000 PV and there was no money. I was promised a net profit of $1000 a month if I had the parameters. Well, the money wasn't there. Why build a business for no profit?

Why do you wrongly assume that I don't have financial security? When I retire, my home will be paid off and I will have enough income to golf regularly, and travel out of country several times each year. I won't have any difficulty. Compare that to IBOs who are in debt, bankruptm and getting deeper in debt buying standig orders and seminar tickets.

God made the ultimate sacrifice at the cross. If you actually read and understood the Bible, you would know this. Jesus, the savior, healer, baptizer, and coming King (4 square).

I am not a victim and I am not fighting anything. I am simply providing information to information seekers so they don't get misled by unethical IBOs and Amway recruiters.

Steve said...

Hey Joecool - Just recently found your site... like the common sense and transparency.

Poster said...

Joecool, thank you for being honest about it. I have also seen people who have registered as an IBO in this business, some of who after months of being in the business came up with the argument 'why am I not making any money, you showed me that I can make $50,000 one year after I start'. To which I asked 'what was your activity level today, yesterday, last week and last month?' Then I got the answer 'what do you mean?' I gave a blank stare and a smile. Then here came the line 'you know, I spoke to someone today about the business.' Then I asked 'what about yesterday?' The answer came 'well, I didn't do anything yesterday and last few days I was busy.' Then I told the guy 'see, that's the problem, you're inconsistent, your good results get delayed.' The final line was 'what? I signed up and you promised that I will make $50,000 a year, where's the money?' That was the last time I heard from the guy. He quit out of frustration. One guy even asked if he was supposed to do anything to make money! He thought that by signing up he was guaranteed to make money! There you have it Joecool. A lot of people who quit do so as a result of their own fault but claim that it was Amway's fault for their lack of success.
Now to answer your question about what God did for you to escape Hell. You seem to come forth clearer in your answer. Yes, Jesus Christ was crucified for the sins of mankind, He was resurrected three days after and ascended to Heaven, sitting at God's right side. By His blood we are redeemed. Now, what is our responsibility to appreciate and accept His sacrifice? Do you know?

Joecool said...

Anonymous Poster, I am not here to play question and answer about the Bible. If you wish, start your own blog and invite me. I will debate with you. As for Amway, people quit because they don't make money. Any money they earn ends up being spent on tools, as per the wise advice of their upline. They end up losing money, contradicting the promises of upline and they quit. It really is as simple as that. As for consistency, it is because once you aren't working hard, your business will backslide. That oges for diamonds as well.

Poster said...

How nice Joecool, one mix of a little bit of truth (eg: as for consistency, it is because once you aren't working hard, your business will backslide) with a lot of error, compromise and and deception. Such a little devil in disguise are you, aren't you? What promises are you talking about? No one promises anything here. The story I gave you is of someone who quit as a result of unfulfilled perceived promises when such promises were never made in the first place. What is shown is the earning potential based on a model. A model is not a guarantee. A model must be followed and put into practice to see results. Now, if you think that the model does not work why haven't you approached Amway by now and present your improved model?

Joecool said...

Poster, you ahve comprehension issues. I did the work, built my business with the correctly advise parameters. The money wasn't there. My upline said to keep going as success was right around the corner. Additionally, the upline wanted me to submit to them and they started controlling my life. I quit despite being at 4000 PV. Big deal, I wasn't making money and my dignity and integrity was more important than a few dollars.

You aren't a devil in disguise, I think you are the devil. You try to twist my words into something it is not.

As I said, it's not a consistency issue. Once you stop working hard, your business will backslide immediately because of the attrition. And it is why there is no residual income.

Poster said...

Again Joecool, you are avoiding another important question and this time the question is about why you haven't approached Amway by now and present your improved business model. I thought that you said that the Amway business model as is, does not work so if you want to see people succeed in Amway that is what you should be doing.

Poster said...

Joecool first says 'As for consistency, it is because once you aren't working hard, your business will backslide.'
Joecool then says 'As I said, it's not a consistency issue. Once you stop working hard, your business will backslide immediately because of the attrition. '
So what I understand is that you have trouble expressing yourself. And that is just as serious and troublesome for someone who wants to be a credible journalist. But we know now that you are a flimsy journalist. Proud, liar, hypocrite, arrogant, lazy and deceptive. Religious and showing up with seemingly good, noble and credible intentions only to create a campaign of fear of misinformation. Quick to cover up his mistakes by believing that in writing four more equally erroneous articles, this discussion will be buried, forgotten and not prime time for others to see. This discussion has made you expose yourself for who you really are. It has revealed what your true intentions are. It has revealed the manner in which you carry out your intentions. Overall, it has given an idea as to how you conduct yourself in your daily life. Proverbs 23:7 says that as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. That is you Joecool. Congratulations!
Now, if you will kindly pardon me, I have to attend to my own matters and I hope that you will eventually understand and correct your errors. Not that I expect it to happen. I can't expect anything good coming from you. But at least, I leave you with a word of hope. It was a privilege knowing you. Thank you and good bye!

Joecool said...

Poster, I'm not avoiding anything. I just do not see the value in continuing this anymore when you clearly do not understand the scriptures you quote. You say I am wrong but cannot point out what is wrong. The Amway business has no residual income. Once you stop working, your business is doomed.

Anonymous said...

Looks like poster was thoroughly schooled by JoeCool.

Anonymous said...

my day just got better.