http://expeditionoftruths.com/tag/wwdb/
I've been following the journal of an IBO who is in the WWDB LOS. Essentially, I believe the dude is hard working and wanting the best for his family. The problem I see is that he has apparently fallen for the deception that was and continues to be taught by WWDB. Pro Amway folks have criticized Joecool because they say my experience is old and outdated. Yet, here it is on the journal of a current WWDB IBO, pretty much verifies that the same material taught in the late 1990's is still taught today. The only difference I see is that the WWDB leaders are not lying about nobody making a cent of profit from tools. Although they have their own spin on that as well.
Ironically, his website says "Sto Pro Veritate", which means "I stand for the truth". I would guess that Shaun believee what his upline says is the truth but his blog is littered with material that is dicey, but because his upline said so, Shaun believes. I was once there myself, but realized the scam after a number of months. Sometimes it's hard to discern because your sponsor or upline is often a friend or family member. They get you to agree on various issues to build a degree of trust and slow up your level of commitment. Shaun is a perfect example of this.
Basically, Shaun's wife got involved and eventually, Shaun also jumped in. The couple went 1000 PV in March 2010 and even posted copies of their checks. Nothing indicating further progress has been posted since. I would assume any new pin level would have been an article that was newsworthy on such a blog. Lately, there has been more mundane material, and Shaun does not allow comments on his blog anymore, which in itself is interesting. Shaun, in 2009, posted that why wouldn't someone want to work hard for 2-3 years and never have to do it again? 2012 is around the corner, about 3 years since he got started. Food for thought.
Some of the interesting things that can be found on the blog:
The couple plans to purchase a home in cash.
Denied that Greg Duncan (One of their mentors) had bankruptcy issues
Amway/WWDB IBOs have a 2% divorce rate compared to 60% for the rest
Will be Double Eagle Rubies making $117K in 2011
Will be job optional in November 2011
Debt Free (True, but sold their home and cashed in 401K to do so)
Here's a recent quote: "We’ve got some pretty big dreams and today the dream of owning an aircraft was at the forefront. Don’t laugh, get your own dream!"
**Now let me say I wish Shaun and his family well. I hope he does succeed and is able to fulfill his goals and dreams, but not exclusively at his downline's expense. What troubles me is how the leadership at WWDB is apparently teaching him the same junk I saw as an IBO and is filling his heart with false hopes and dreams that are unlikely to ever come to fruition. Even the miniscule number of people who do succeedin Amway, do so at the expense of their trusting downline. Seems that Amway accreditation did nothing to alter or shape the teaching of these LOS's. I will continue to follow his progress and hope that he will eventually see through the facade.
Friday, December 30, 2011
Thursday, December 29, 2011
Only Winners Join Amway?
One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Kind of makes me wonder about the "most" who "do nothing" after joining.
I also heard that you're a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should kick him where the sun doesn't shine.
Only winners join Amway? Think again!
I also heard that you're a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should kick him where the sun doesn't shine.
Only winners join Amway? Think again!
Wednesday, December 28, 2011
How Strong Is Your Belief In Amway?
I often hear stories and testimonies about how some people (usually newbies) have this incredible belief in Amway, their sponsors and their LOS, such as WWDB or Network 21. Being that many, possibly most IBOs are sponsored by a friend or family member, means that there is an inherent trust in the sponsor or upline. If that were not true, then we would likely see many more complaints about Amway and/or the uplines and lines of sponsorship.
But an important facet of being an IBO is to have a dream. Don't let "naysayers" steal your dream, is what many IBOs are told. But what is that dream? Is is a dream (a long term attainable goal) or a wish such as winning the powerball lottery? Many prospects and IBOs want to succeed. They are willing to work hard, and are very dedicated, I would say that these folks usually will end up failing, not for lack of effort, but for a flawed MLM/Amway system that cannot possibly reward more than a few. The famed 6-4-2, 6-4-3 or some other variation of the plan will illustrate that only 1 in 100 or so can be "platinum". And that's with nobody quitting. Factor in attrition and "do nothings" and it might be 1 in 200 who can reach platinum. Even if the whole world signed up for Amway, that fact doesn't change.
Do you really believe in Amway and your line of sponsorship such as WWDB or Network 21? If you truly believe in Amway and your metors, I challenge you to do one of these things. If you can't or won't, then I question your level of commitment. I question your belief. I'm not here to steal your dream. I am just challenging you.
Take your 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 or 6-4-3 plan to a loan officer at a bank and show them the plan. (Hey, it will help you be CORE) Ask the loan officer for their opinion of the plan and see if you can get a business loan based on the Amway plan. If not that, try seeking the advice of a real millionaire (Someone who has a net worth of a million bucks) and see if they think the 6-4-2 or other Amway (version) plans can work and whether they think Amway is a good idea. Heck, try asking your church Pastor. My church Pastor said Amway had too many false hopes and promises to be considered a viable business option.
How strong is your belief in Amway? Strong enough to take my challenge? Or will you ignore this and go on fooling yourself?
But an important facet of being an IBO is to have a dream. Don't let "naysayers" steal your dream, is what many IBOs are told. But what is that dream? Is is a dream (a long term attainable goal) or a wish such as winning the powerball lottery? Many prospects and IBOs want to succeed. They are willing to work hard, and are very dedicated, I would say that these folks usually will end up failing, not for lack of effort, but for a flawed MLM/Amway system that cannot possibly reward more than a few. The famed 6-4-2, 6-4-3 or some other variation of the plan will illustrate that only 1 in 100 or so can be "platinum". And that's with nobody quitting. Factor in attrition and "do nothings" and it might be 1 in 200 who can reach platinum. Even if the whole world signed up for Amway, that fact doesn't change.
Do you really believe in Amway and your line of sponsorship such as WWDB or Network 21? If you truly believe in Amway and your metors, I challenge you to do one of these things. If you can't or won't, then I question your level of commitment. I question your belief. I'm not here to steal your dream. I am just challenging you.
Take your 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 or 6-4-3 plan to a loan officer at a bank and show them the plan. (Hey, it will help you be CORE) Ask the loan officer for their opinion of the plan and see if you can get a business loan based on the Amway plan. If not that, try seeking the advice of a real millionaire (Someone who has a net worth of a million bucks) and see if they think the 6-4-2 or other Amway (version) plans can work and whether they think Amway is a good idea. Heck, try asking your church Pastor. My church Pastor said Amway had too many false hopes and promises to be considered a viable business option.
How strong is your belief in Amway? Strong enough to take my challenge? Or will you ignore this and go on fooling yourself?
Tuesday, December 27, 2011
IBO (Lack of) Success?
I heard a great comment from a commentator on a related Amway blog. Basically, he said if IBOs were so successful, people would just naturally be attracted. And that's true! Where I live, the local electric company is an attractive place to work with a good salary and benefits package. When there's a handful of openings, you might get as many as 6,000 people applying for these positions. When the federal government hires for the post office, you get thousands of applicants for a handful of jobs as well.
But IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily me marketed. In fact, cutsomers would be seeking IBOs to find the products and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity.
Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opprtunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hoards of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.
In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 12 years ago. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success spakes louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening
But IBOs have to justify their positions. The common ones are how Amway products are concentrated, or they have magical ingredients in their vitamins. It is my position that if these products were so good and the opportunity actually produced successful IBOs, there would be no need to be deceptive about the products or opportunity. The products could easily me marketed. In fact, cutsomers would be seeking IBOs to find the products and there would be lines of people waiting to see the opportunity.
Instead, IBOs themselves are the primary consumers of Amway products. Many IBOs are deceptive when inviting people to see the Amway plan. Some prospects are outright lied to when recruited for the Amway opprtunity. The curiosity approach is still used by many, because mentioning "Amway" is more likely to get you funny looks than interest. If what I am writing is not true, why do IBOs need to deceive people? Why don't some IBOs open their books and display the financial success they claim to have? Why so secretive? Why aren't there hoards of new diamonds and emeralds each month? Instead, you mainly hear of the Amway growth in foreign countries. Most likely because the Amway name and reputation has not yet been soiled as it has in the US and Canada.
In the US, I see primarily the same old diamonds who were in control of the functions and systems from more than 12 years ago. In fact, factoring in diamonds who quit or dropped out, I believe there are fewer diamonds now than when I was an IBO. Some of these diamonds also had some apparent financial difficulties. The opportunity is far from how it's promoted. Success spakes louder than words, and where North American Amway success is concerned, the silence is deafening
Friday, December 23, 2011
Merry Christmas!
I would like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas! Joecool will be taking a few days off from blogging to enjoy the Christmas holiday. I remember as an IBO, even at Christmas parties I was wondering about who I could invite to an open meeting or who might be open to seeing the plan. Our upline said we can enjoy the holiday but we should always have our feelers out there for people who might be "looking" for an opportunity.
Looking back I should have simply enjoyed the holiday with no strings attached. Sometimes I wonder what my family and friends thought of my Amway days. I tried not to be over the top when talking about business but I'm sure it was on the back of everyone's minds when the subject of business came up. Turns out I recently found some acquaintances who are Amway IBOs. Although none of them have so far tried to recruit me or sell me Amway products.
Anyway, Merry Christmas to all and be safe!
Looking back I should have simply enjoyed the holiday with no strings attached. Sometimes I wonder what my family and friends thought of my Amway days. I tried not to be over the top when talking about business but I'm sure it was on the back of everyone's minds when the subject of business came up. Turns out I recently found some acquaintances who are Amway IBOs. Although none of them have so far tried to recruit me or sell me Amway products.
Anyway, Merry Christmas to all and be safe!
Thursday, December 22, 2011
A Lying Amway IBO?
An apparent IBO recently engaged me on facebook. I copied his statements and my responses. He goes by the name "Mike". He engaged me for a few exchanges and then he later comes back a month later to try and recruit me. In the exchange I catch him in a lie. Maybe he is learning fake it till you make it? I bet he is in WWDB. LOL
August 17 at 2:54pm Mike:
you wouldn't know a real biz if it hit you in the face.... who r u fooling??? My biz makes 35 to 40K part time....
Joe says: Who are you? Some Amway dude?
August 17 at 2:58pm Mike:
8.2 bil this year WITHOUT you... will be over 9 bill when the #'s all shake out... all WITHOUT you... r u stupid... this is fact!!! oh you must have a job... mike
Joe says: Amway 9 billion, Walmart 401 billion. No comparison.
August 17 at 3:04pm Mike:
lets see ... yes walmart great co... what do they do... oh they distrib.... only prob. with walmart can't have a biz... 15,000 new ibo's per day... over 40 mil. hits on the web everyday... the ONLY debt FREE co on the web that doing over a bill in biz .... income i'm plat. yrly 35-40 k...
Joe says: Debt free? Good for Amway. You are not Amway.
August 17 at 3:27pm Mike:
first thing you can do is call corp... they will give you doc... have been debt free from day one when rich & jay started... i don't know where you went to school but you must have flunked math... your crazy to think over head is 3k per month... no one gets sucked in... they join on their own... how many people start college and never finish... oh lets see ... they quit... mmmmm spent $$$$ on tuition/ books/ room-board....
Joe says: So are you profitable? Mike responds with the broke loser statement but a month later, he’s back………..
September 14 at 4:45pm Mike:
hey Joe... mike here.... do you want me to sponsor you??? had 3 new people at a home meeting on thur. last week... 2 are in and 1 customer... things are going well... mike
Joe says: It’s great that you had people at your meeting. Having people at a meeting doesn’t make you any money does it?
September 15 at 11:51am Mike:
have ALWAY'S been profitable.... i make a profit in EVERY biz i have... have been since i was 22... mike
Joe says: Are you making a net profit? What level are you?
September 15 at 2:24pm Mike:
yeh.. hi Joe... gas, cd's, functions and other expense 300-400.00 monthly... biggest expense are function weekends... run bout 300.00 for ticket,room and food... made over 50k... high margin of profit... must hang in to build the biz right... mike
Joecool commentary: So this IBO admits his expenses run about $300 to $400 a month to “build the business right”. You will notice that a month ago he was a platinum making $35 to $40K. Now, a month later he says he is making $50K. Clearly he is lying, probably faking it but not making it. Why do so many IBOs need to lie?
August 17 at 2:54pm Mike:
you wouldn't know a real biz if it hit you in the face.... who r u fooling??? My biz makes 35 to 40K part time....
Joe says: Who are you? Some Amway dude?
August 17 at 2:58pm Mike:
8.2 bil this year WITHOUT you... will be over 9 bill when the #'s all shake out... all WITHOUT you... r u stupid... this is fact!!! oh you must have a job... mike
Joe says: Amway 9 billion, Walmart 401 billion. No comparison.
August 17 at 3:04pm Mike:
lets see ... yes walmart great co... what do they do... oh they distrib.... only prob. with walmart can't have a biz... 15,000 new ibo's per day... over 40 mil. hits on the web everyday... the ONLY debt FREE co on the web that doing over a bill in biz .... income i'm plat. yrly 35-40 k...
Joe says: Debt free? Good for Amway. You are not Amway.
August 17 at 3:27pm Mike:
first thing you can do is call corp... they will give you doc... have been debt free from day one when rich & jay started... i don't know where you went to school but you must have flunked math... your crazy to think over head is 3k per month... no one gets sucked in... they join on their own... how many people start college and never finish... oh lets see ... they quit... mmmmm spent $$$$ on tuition/ books/ room-board....
Joe says: So are you profitable? Mike responds with the broke loser statement but a month later, he’s back………..
September 14 at 4:45pm Mike:
hey Joe... mike here.... do you want me to sponsor you??? had 3 new people at a home meeting on thur. last week... 2 are in and 1 customer... things are going well... mike
Joe says: It’s great that you had people at your meeting. Having people at a meeting doesn’t make you any money does it?
September 15 at 11:51am Mike:
have ALWAY'S been profitable.... i make a profit in EVERY biz i have... have been since i was 22... mike
Joe says: Are you making a net profit? What level are you?
September 15 at 2:24pm Mike:
yeh.. hi Joe... gas, cd's, functions and other expense 300-400.00 monthly... biggest expense are function weekends... run bout 300.00 for ticket,room and food... made over 50k... high margin of profit... must hang in to build the biz right... mike
Joecool commentary: So this IBO admits his expenses run about $300 to $400 a month to “build the business right”. You will notice that a month ago he was a platinum making $35 to $40K. Now, a month later he says he is making $50K. Clearly he is lying, probably faking it but not making it. Why do so many IBOs need to lie?
Wednesday, December 21, 2011
Amway And Christmas?
On the internet, I've seen some interesting stuff that some IBOs have done. Such as talking about how the malls are crowded and why bother with all the hassle when you can shop on Amway.com? I guess if you don't mind paying through your teeth you can shop at Amway.com and get your Christmas shopping done. I can imagine the looks on the faces of your family when they receive a bottle of LOC or a box of SA8 when others are receiving Xbox games and/or gift cards for WalGreens.
I'm not sure about Amway's current gift catalog programs, but I recall purchasing those items at Christmas to give to family and friends. Afterall, you gotta build that PV right? Looking back I wonder if my family and friends thought I was cheap or brainwashed with those kinds of gifts? But hey, as an IBO, you do it to support your business. So what if you spent $500 to get 100 or 200 PV? Your "broke" friends and family won't be getting that $12 check in the month following December.
One of the things our upline taught the group was that there's raraely a "day off" when you're in Amway. Sure, you might relax on Christmas day but you need to get off your duff and back on the recruiting trail so you can work on fulfilling your dreams. Afterall, you want to eventually walk away from your evil boss and deadend job and spend time at the beach with your "awesome" upline mentors. Do IBOs ever wonder why their upline mentors don't spend time at the beach and instead are out showing the plan and speaking at functions, even at Christmas? I used to see our upline diamond in his car, wearing a suit frequently. I thought why he didn't just take a month's vacation at Christmas. My sponsor said he was so focused on helping the downline "get free", that he didn't take time off. Looking back, I believe he was busy because he had to. Our former diamond (Harimoto) was a dedicated ocean lover. I wonder why he up and moved to Washington (State) in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe he enjoys a white Christmas?
Anway, for the IBOs out there... It's nearly Christmas. Lighten up. You can take a break from recruiting family and friends into Amway. Just enjoy the company and fellowship with your loved ones. Don't have undermining thoughts of showing them the plan. I can nearly assure you that your gathering with have less tension and that you will enjoy yourself. Your loved ones are likely to enjoy having you around also.
I'm not sure about Amway's current gift catalog programs, but I recall purchasing those items at Christmas to give to family and friends. Afterall, you gotta build that PV right? Looking back I wonder if my family and friends thought I was cheap or brainwashed with those kinds of gifts? But hey, as an IBO, you do it to support your business. So what if you spent $500 to get 100 or 200 PV? Your "broke" friends and family won't be getting that $12 check in the month following December.
One of the things our upline taught the group was that there's raraely a "day off" when you're in Amway. Sure, you might relax on Christmas day but you need to get off your duff and back on the recruiting trail so you can work on fulfilling your dreams. Afterall, you want to eventually walk away from your evil boss and deadend job and spend time at the beach with your "awesome" upline mentors. Do IBOs ever wonder why their upline mentors don't spend time at the beach and instead are out showing the plan and speaking at functions, even at Christmas? I used to see our upline diamond in his car, wearing a suit frequently. I thought why he didn't just take a month's vacation at Christmas. My sponsor said he was so focused on helping the downline "get free", that he didn't take time off. Looking back, I believe he was busy because he had to. Our former diamond (Harimoto) was a dedicated ocean lover. I wonder why he up and moved to Washington (State) in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe he enjoys a white Christmas?
Anway, for the IBOs out there... It's nearly Christmas. Lighten up. You can take a break from recruiting family and friends into Amway. Just enjoy the company and fellowship with your loved ones. Don't have undermining thoughts of showing them the plan. I can nearly assure you that your gathering with have less tension and that you will enjoy yourself. Your loved ones are likely to enjoy having you around also.
Monday, December 19, 2011
Are You Still CORE?
Here is a breakdodown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use. CORE is allegedly the proven system of success. Apologists claims that people who are CORE for at least six months straight will succeed. I doubt it. There are many examples, including my former sponsor who can suggest it doesn't work.
1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate
Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).
Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.
Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.
Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..
What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.
That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't.
1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate
Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).
Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.
Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.
Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..
What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.
That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't.
Friday, December 16, 2011
Amway & Costco
A Re-Post of this blog's most popular thread. I made some comments in bold:
Funny Story, the other day at work, I get a call from a friend, asking me to deliver a package for him to a mutual friend. A catalog drops out of the bag. It’s an Amway catalog, and apparently a friend of mine still buys dish drops. Anyway, I look at a few popular items from the catalog and compare them to Costco prices. I am shocked. Just by purchasing Gatorade at Costco instead of quixtar, I already get $14 savings and 80 ounces more product!
Prices Competetive?
XS Sports drinks 24 16 oz bottles = $30.00
Gatorade 24 20oz bottles = $15.95 (at Costco)
XS energy drinks 8.4 oz (case of 12) = $23.99
Red Bull 8 oz (case of 24) $31.30 (at Costco)
Double X (31 day supply) $78.05
Multi Vitamins (3 month supply) $24.80 (At Costco)
SA8 6.6 pound (100 loads) $22.75
Kirkland (5 gallon bucket from Costco) $15.99
Meadowbrook bath tissue 48 rolls $29.99
Kirkland bath tissue 36 rolls $11.99 (Costco)
Some Amway zealots actually had the gall to debate the quality of toilet paper
Smart menu Pasta 12 – 16 oz. Bags = $24.99
Golden Grain Pasta 12 16oz. Boxes = $8.99 (Costco)
Smart menu chunk light tuna 24 6 oz cans $25.99
Coral chunk light tuna 12 6 oz. cans $5.99 (Costco)
Progresso soups 8 19 oz cans $19.99
Progresso soups 8 19 oz cans $11.99 (Costco)
This soup at Costco was exactly the same 8 pack as the one in the Amway catalog
Funny Story, the other day at work, I get a call from a friend, asking me to deliver a package for him to a mutual friend. A catalog drops out of the bag. It’s an Amway catalog, and apparently a friend of mine still buys dish drops. Anyway, I look at a few popular items from the catalog and compare them to Costco prices. I am shocked. Just by purchasing Gatorade at Costco instead of quixtar, I already get $14 savings and 80 ounces more product!
Prices Competetive?
XS Sports drinks 24 16 oz bottles = $30.00
Gatorade 24 20oz bottles = $15.95 (at Costco)
XS energy drinks 8.4 oz (case of 12) = $23.99
Red Bull 8 oz (case of 24) $31.30 (at Costco)
Double X (31 day supply) $78.05
Multi Vitamins (3 month supply) $24.80 (At Costco)
SA8 6.6 pound (100 loads) $22.75
Kirkland (5 gallon bucket from Costco) $15.99
Meadowbrook bath tissue 48 rolls $29.99
Kirkland bath tissue 36 rolls $11.99 (Costco)
Some Amway zealots actually had the gall to debate the quality of toilet paper
Smart menu Pasta 12 – 16 oz. Bags = $24.99
Golden Grain Pasta 12 16oz. Boxes = $8.99 (Costco)
Smart menu chunk light tuna 24 6 oz cans $25.99
Coral chunk light tuna 12 6 oz. cans $5.99 (Costco)
Progresso soups 8 19 oz cans $19.99
Progresso soups 8 19 oz cans $11.99 (Costco)
This soup at Costco was exactly the same 8 pack as the one in the Amway catalog
Thursday, December 15, 2011
Amway And Pyramids?
Let me start out by saying that Amway is a perfectly legal company. Therefore I am not saying or implying that Amway is illegal. But I believe that the way Amway businesses are run, are like pyramids. In most groups, you will have the lowest level IBOs efforts and tool purchases being responsible for the upline bonuses and tools income. Many many IBOs are fooled into thinking that the ability to surpass your upline or that you don't get paid to recruit downline makes this a good deal. Think about it for a bit. Aren't most Amway gatherings about motivation and recruiting?
Unless you have a very very rare group where actual product sales to non IBOs is sufficient to cover the costs of running your business, functions and all, then it is true that the lower level IBO's jobs are likely the source of income for the uplines. How many groups are like that? None that I have ever seen or know of. In fact, how often do IBOs even sell enough products to cover their expenses for even one month out of the year? The groups that teach "buy from yourself" end up doing the most financial damage to their groups because the downline's expenses are then covered exclusively from the downlines jobs, bank accounts, or drive the downline into debt.
I've seen and discussed group structures in forums many times and I can only conclude that tool sales wipe out what little profits/bonuses some of the downlines might receive. Only when an IBO is able to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them will they finally breal even or make a little profit. I would guess that the 4000 PV level or platinum is where a dedicated CORE IBO would breal even and possibly start to make a real profit. But we also know that most platinum groups have 100 or more IBOs in order to generate 7500 PV. Thus we can also conclude that less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit. The only way IBOs can earn a net profit at a lower level is to avoid purchasing tools and to avoid paying for functions. Those who get involved in a system such as WWDB or N21 almost guarantee that they will have a net loss.
Sure, my job may have a pyramid structure with the CEO making the most money. But the difference is that in a company, even the lowest paid employee still receives a paycheck and has money at the end of the month. The same claim cannot be made by IBOs. For these reasons, I believe Amway to be a legal pyramid. IBOs and information seekers are free to participate, but I challenge them to sit down and really analyze their ability to make a net profit. In most cases, the analysis won't be favorable. If you are in the US in particular, you may have great difficulty in even being able to discuss "Amway" without getting strange looks your way from others. Good luck in whatever you decide
Unless you have a very very rare group where actual product sales to non IBOs is sufficient to cover the costs of running your business, functions and all, then it is true that the lower level IBO's jobs are likely the source of income for the uplines. How many groups are like that? None that I have ever seen or know of. In fact, how often do IBOs even sell enough products to cover their expenses for even one month out of the year? The groups that teach "buy from yourself" end up doing the most financial damage to their groups because the downline's expenses are then covered exclusively from the downlines jobs, bank accounts, or drive the downline into debt.
I've seen and discussed group structures in forums many times and I can only conclude that tool sales wipe out what little profits/bonuses some of the downlines might receive. Only when an IBO is able to sponsor enough downline to absorb the losses for them will they finally breal even or make a little profit. I would guess that the 4000 PV level or platinum is where a dedicated CORE IBO would breal even and possibly start to make a real profit. But we also know that most platinum groups have 100 or more IBOs in order to generate 7500 PV. Thus we can also conclude that less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit. The only way IBOs can earn a net profit at a lower level is to avoid purchasing tools and to avoid paying for functions. Those who get involved in a system such as WWDB or N21 almost guarantee that they will have a net loss.
Sure, my job may have a pyramid structure with the CEO making the most money. But the difference is that in a company, even the lowest paid employee still receives a paycheck and has money at the end of the month. The same claim cannot be made by IBOs. For these reasons, I believe Amway to be a legal pyramid. IBOs and information seekers are free to participate, but I challenge them to sit down and really analyze their ability to make a net profit. In most cases, the analysis won't be favorable. If you are in the US in particular, you may have great difficulty in even being able to discuss "Amway" without getting strange looks your way from others. Good luck in whatever you decide
Tuesday, December 13, 2011
The "Truth" About Amway?
Comment left on Happy Franchisee blog:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/
mary on December 5th, 2011 10:35 am
My husband and I were involved in the Amway/Quixtar business for 13 years. We worked very hard, attended all the meetings, reached the direct level, and made very little money. Thank God for Dateline. We were convinced that this was a reputable business,the people were great….so we thought. Then we found out the truth. The majority of the money that was told to us was suppose to be on the products and sponsoring /helping others,l was actually made on the books,tapes and seminars. You know they tell you that the speakers take the time from their families to give back to the business. Totally false ! The speakers are paid to perform. That is how they make money. Please believe me when I say that you are not being stupid just convinced by people you trust that you will make money. We went to our sponsors and told them we know how they are making money. We watched Dateline , years ago and still could not believe how we were tricked. It is sad that people will continue to believe this opportunity will produce millionaires. Most of the people in our upline were sued by other people and eventually went on to another scam. I know you will find this hard to believe. I did too. I am now reading all this information and at one time felt the same way. Again you are not stupid… just misinformed. We worked long hours, left our children with sitters, argued with our family , and listened to our upline to not believe the internet. If you make money at this business it will be on the books, tapes, seminars and speaking. We could not comprehend how our upline could have lied to us… they were good people that also got caught up in the lies. It is really difficult to listen to someone speak highly of this business, I know I would defend the products and the system too. I also thought I knew what was going on but I did not know the truth. Find another way to make money you, will be glad you found out now.
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/
mary on December 5th, 2011 10:35 am
My husband and I were involved in the Amway/Quixtar business for 13 years. We worked very hard, attended all the meetings, reached the direct level, and made very little money. Thank God for Dateline. We were convinced that this was a reputable business,the people were great….so we thought. Then we found out the truth. The majority of the money that was told to us was suppose to be on the products and sponsoring /helping others,l was actually made on the books,tapes and seminars. You know they tell you that the speakers take the time from their families to give back to the business. Totally false ! The speakers are paid to perform. That is how they make money. Please believe me when I say that you are not being stupid just convinced by people you trust that you will make money. We went to our sponsors and told them we know how they are making money. We watched Dateline , years ago and still could not believe how we were tricked. It is sad that people will continue to believe this opportunity will produce millionaires. Most of the people in our upline were sued by other people and eventually went on to another scam. I know you will find this hard to believe. I did too. I am now reading all this information and at one time felt the same way. Again you are not stupid… just misinformed. We worked long hours, left our children with sitters, argued with our family , and listened to our upline to not believe the internet. If you make money at this business it will be on the books, tapes, seminars and speaking. We could not comprehend how our upline could have lied to us… they were good people that also got caught up in the lies. It is really difficult to listen to someone speak highly of this business, I know I would defend the products and the system too. I also thought I knew what was going on but I did not know the truth. Find another way to make money you, will be glad you found out now.
Monday, December 12, 2011
Profit Is The Motivation That IBOs Need?
I believe that Amway IBOs have approximately a 50% attrition rate for the first year alone. If you look at a 5 year window, I believe the attrition rate is something like 95%. So what we're saying is that out of 100 IBOs, only 5 will be around in 5 years, or out of 1000 IBOs, 50 will remain after 5 years. This is extremely significant because if you are a business builder, you will need to replace half of your IBOs every single year. For this reason, I am very doubtful that there are IBOs who "built the business right and built it once", who no longer do Amway related work, but still collect significant residual income. I would guess that significant income could be defined as being enough to live a lifestyle in the top tax bracket (for the US) without having to report to a J-O-B.
Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?
Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.
All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank.
Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?
Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.
All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank.
Friday, December 9, 2011
Amway And WWDB & Integrity?
I've been following the blog of a WWDB IBO named "Shaun". He runs the blog called "Expeditions Of Truth" http://expeditionoftruths.com/
He seems to think that not only is he in business with people full of integrity, he also thinks that he is going to retire in November 2011. Is this now December 2011? While I think doing business with people of integrity is a good thing, I also know of many successful people in business who are ruthless. So are Amway and in particular, WWDB people full of integrty or are they just as ruthless as other business people? Does it matter? In my opinion, it doesn't matter except for the fact that WWDB people seem to think that they have integrity filled leaders.
Well, lets look at some of these leaders. Back in the 1990's, the current batch of WWDB leaders swore that nobody made a profit on tools. Nobody knew the truth at the time. We now know that this was a lie. Is this integrity? We know that Greg Duncan was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Not paying for your obligations is integrity? We know that Greg Duncan and David Shores had homes foreclosed (Public information). Is that a move filled with integrity? With the tons of money Duncan and Shores make, couldn't they have made an effort to pay off their debts?
If you look at a blog linked to this one "Rocket's Rants", there's a youtube video of "crown" Brad Duncan telling rank and file IBOs that they can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month. First of all, I wonder if Brad Duncan has achieved this himself, let alone any others? Even if someone had achieved it, it would be illegal or unethical to portray that kind of success as achieveable to a a prospect.
Brad Wolgamott used to talk about how WWDB had a low divorce rate. Is it full on integrity for WWDB leaders to seperate or divorce when they talk about integrity and how Amway and WWDB saves marriages? What about Dean Kosage? Another divorcee? Are they full of integrity? What say you Shaun Guthrie of WWDB? What about Howie Danzik whose website doesn't mention that he was once married to Susan? Is it integrity to say you built the business as a single when Howie previously built the business with his former wife?
Amway's owner Rich DeVos ackowledged that the "tools" were likely a pyramid scam and Amway did nothing after sales dropped following some attempts to clean it up. Is that an integrity move? I don't know but
it sure seems as if WWDB and Amway have issues where integrity is concerned.
He seems to think that not only is he in business with people full of integrity, he also thinks that he is going to retire in November 2011. Is this now December 2011? While I think doing business with people of integrity is a good thing, I also know of many successful people in business who are ruthless. So are Amway and in particular, WWDB people full of integrty or are they just as ruthless as other business people? Does it matter? In my opinion, it doesn't matter except for the fact that WWDB people seem to think that they have integrity filled leaders.
Well, lets look at some of these leaders. Back in the 1990's, the current batch of WWDB leaders swore that nobody made a profit on tools. Nobody knew the truth at the time. We now know that this was a lie. Is this integrity? We know that Greg Duncan was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Not paying for your obligations is integrity? We know that Greg Duncan and David Shores had homes foreclosed (Public information). Is that a move filled with integrity? With the tons of money Duncan and Shores make, couldn't they have made an effort to pay off their debts?
If you look at a blog linked to this one "Rocket's Rants", there's a youtube video of "crown" Brad Duncan telling rank and file IBOs that they can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month. First of all, I wonder if Brad Duncan has achieved this himself, let alone any others? Even if someone had achieved it, it would be illegal or unethical to portray that kind of success as achieveable to a a prospect.
Brad Wolgamott used to talk about how WWDB had a low divorce rate. Is it full on integrity for WWDB leaders to seperate or divorce when they talk about integrity and how Amway and WWDB saves marriages? What about Dean Kosage? Another divorcee? Are they full of integrity? What say you Shaun Guthrie of WWDB? What about Howie Danzik whose website doesn't mention that he was once married to Susan? Is it integrity to say you built the business as a single when Howie previously built the business with his former wife?
Amway's owner Rich DeVos ackowledged that the "tools" were likely a pyramid scam and Amway did nothing after sales dropped following some attempts to clean it up. Is that an integrity move? I don't know but
it sure seems as if WWDB and Amway have issues where integrity is concerned.
Thursday, December 8, 2011
Edification and Amway?
Edification. During my time in the Amway business, we saw many IBOs get edified, including myself. Of course it felt great when your upline platinum or diamond would say something that made you stand out in the crowd. For example, I remember an IBO being exalted because he quit his job to attend a major function. His boss wouldn't allow him to use vacation time so he quit to attend the function. I remember Brad Wolgamott telling people it's just a job, attend the function and get another one (job). I remember at a family reunion function, a man was edified by the diamonds because he was diagnosed with terminal cancer but instead of being at home and bitching and moaning, there he was at an Amway function, making a difference in the world they would say. But looking back, I truly believe that the upline's intentions were to uplift those who went thru extraordinary efforts to spend money on tools or functions.
In other words, you are buying your edification. Of course when I say you are buying your edification, you are not necessarily doing so in dollars. It can either be in dollars or in time. For example, you may have been edified for listening to 15 standing orders in one day, or you may be edified for driving the miles to show plans, even if the guest was a no-show. I also recall some IBOs in the group being edified for 1000 PV personal use in a month. I honestly don't know who anyone can possibly do 1000 PV in personal use without the purchase of some big ticket items. I mean how much SA8 or LOC can anyone use in the month? I suppose that you could make Nutrilite vitamins your main source of food or something like that and move a lot of PV, but it's ridiculous to spend that much on personal use.
So to what extent are you willing to go to get ediified? For my upline sponsor, it was what he lived for. My sponsor was/is a physician and he therefore could have a nice lifestyle without Amway but he was more interested in the recognition and edification. He ate it up when he was asked to speak at a function once. He told the group in a nite owl that the dream of being on stage as a diamond was more important to him than the money. Sadly, he never got beyond the platinum level as far as I know and last I heard, he was below 4000 PV. Whatever your dream or reason for building Amway, I honestly believe you need to look at the cost of it. For example, you wouldn't sell your soul to the devil in order to go diamond. I actually wonder how my former sponsor feels these days now that our upline diamond (his hero) has moved to Washington and he cannot spend much time with him anymore?
The cost of edification in Amway is high. Are you willing to foot that bill? I'm glad I woke up and decided that there are much better ways to spend my time, money and efforts. Joecool's blog is one of the better things. :-)
In other words, you are buying your edification. Of course when I say you are buying your edification, you are not necessarily doing so in dollars. It can either be in dollars or in time. For example, you may have been edified for listening to 15 standing orders in one day, or you may be edified for driving the miles to show plans, even if the guest was a no-show. I also recall some IBOs in the group being edified for 1000 PV personal use in a month. I honestly don't know who anyone can possibly do 1000 PV in personal use without the purchase of some big ticket items. I mean how much SA8 or LOC can anyone use in the month? I suppose that you could make Nutrilite vitamins your main source of food or something like that and move a lot of PV, but it's ridiculous to spend that much on personal use.
So to what extent are you willing to go to get ediified? For my upline sponsor, it was what he lived for. My sponsor was/is a physician and he therefore could have a nice lifestyle without Amway but he was more interested in the recognition and edification. He ate it up when he was asked to speak at a function once. He told the group in a nite owl that the dream of being on stage as a diamond was more important to him than the money. Sadly, he never got beyond the platinum level as far as I know and last I heard, he was below 4000 PV. Whatever your dream or reason for building Amway, I honestly believe you need to look at the cost of it. For example, you wouldn't sell your soul to the devil in order to go diamond. I actually wonder how my former sponsor feels these days now that our upline diamond (his hero) has moved to Washington and he cannot spend much time with him anymore?
The cost of edification in Amway is high. Are you willing to foot that bill? I'm glad I woke up and decided that there are much better ways to spend my time, money and efforts. Joecool's blog is one of the better things. :-)
Wednesday, December 7, 2011
What Goes Around Comes Around?
One of the things that many prospects and IBOs believe is that they will make an investment of time and money into Amway and that they will eventually get their time and money back in such abundance that they can walk off their jobs, and walk the beaches of the world while living on lifelong residual income, all because of the Amway opportunity. For IBOs and prospects of Amway, I wonder if any of you can actually name even five people who have actually accomplished this? Can you even name one person? Why do Corwn Ambassadors keep working? Keep in mind that there have probably been tens of millions of people who also wanted this and tried Amway and the systems, only to find that reality paints a different picture.
Many people think they will reap what they sow. While that many sound true, I guess the next logical question is what are you sowing? Are you deceptive when prospecting people to see the plan? Do you mention Amway when prospecting? Are you having to justify and hide price comparisons that are not favorable? Are you actually selling goods to customers and actually qualifying for your Amway bonus? Do you have a negative opinion (broke losers) about people who don't join Amway or are not interested in seeing the plan? Do you now think your boss and your job are evil? Do you leave your kids at home to attend endless numbers of functions and meetings? You reap what you sow correct?
I wonder what some WWDB diamonds were sowing? At least the ones who had their homes foreclosed, and one in particular was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings? Are they reaping what they sowed? What about the WWDB diamonds who got divorced? What were they sowing? Are IBO sure about wanting to make the claim of reaping and sowing? And yes, Joecool the person also has his own flaws, but the difference is that I am not on stage proclaiming to be flawless and many diamonds would imply when they speak (and profit from) their tens of thousands of downlines. I am not earning a living by deceiving people and profiting from people I am supposed to be helping. Have any of these leaders been held accountable by their downlines or have they simply revised history?
What goes around comes around.
Many people think they will reap what they sow. While that many sound true, I guess the next logical question is what are you sowing? Are you deceptive when prospecting people to see the plan? Do you mention Amway when prospecting? Are you having to justify and hide price comparisons that are not favorable? Are you actually selling goods to customers and actually qualifying for your Amway bonus? Do you have a negative opinion (broke losers) about people who don't join Amway or are not interested in seeing the plan? Do you now think your boss and your job are evil? Do you leave your kids at home to attend endless numbers of functions and meetings? You reap what you sow correct?
I wonder what some WWDB diamonds were sowing? At least the ones who had their homes foreclosed, and one in particular was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings? Are they reaping what they sowed? What about the WWDB diamonds who got divorced? What were they sowing? Are IBO sure about wanting to make the claim of reaping and sowing? And yes, Joecool the person also has his own flaws, but the difference is that I am not on stage proclaiming to be flawless and many diamonds would imply when they speak (and profit from) their tens of thousands of downlines. I am not earning a living by deceiving people and profiting from people I am supposed to be helping. Have any of these leaders been held accountable by their downlines or have they simply revised history?
What goes around comes around.
Monday, December 5, 2011
Personal Responsibility?
One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they wlll tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I di not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 15 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from? Where's the personal responsibility of the leaders and mentors? There are many stories of IBOs doing exactly what they were advised, only to lose money and/or fail. Where's the responsibility of the leaders? The tools system is win win for the upline leaders with the downlines getting a lose lose situation.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I di not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 15 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from? Where's the personal responsibility of the leaders and mentors? There are many stories of IBOs doing exactly what they were advised, only to lose money and/or fail. Where's the responsibility of the leaders? The tools system is win win for the upline leaders with the downlines getting a lose lose situation.
Saturday, December 3, 2011
Does Amway Care About Rules Violations?
I often read about things that Amway does. Some are good. They apparently are concerned about eco friendly products and doing things for charity such as Easter Seals. While this is all good, I wonder sometimes about whether or not Amway cares about their IBOs. IBOs are the lifeline for Amway. Basically, an IBO is a commissioned sales person for Amway with no fringe benefits. IBOs move products for Amway, often at their own expense with Amway paying out bonuses that rewards upline more than the people who actually move the products in most cases.
What makes it worse is that the Amway co-owner, Rich DeVos acknowledged that the "system", consisting of seminars and other tools, were basically an illegal pyramid scheme. Amway tried to reign in the abuse but when certain "kingpins" fought against Amway, sales dropped significantly and the tool abuse went on.
Now, many years later, some Amway groups continue tool abuse. Dateline in 2004 exposed the scam and there were some incidents with some leaders and groups that pruned some of the Amway abusers, but still, it didn't seem as if Amway did anything of substance to curb the abuses. The tools are still promoted in unethical means and even though Amway started an accreditation program, many groups have skirted the spirit of the program and Amway, despite their claims, have apparently turned a "blimd eye" to the issues.
If you examines my former LOS, (WWDB), you can find ample evidence that nothing has changed from my time in the business to now. There is still abuse, lies and deception. Amway claims to address issues, but I have emeiled them numerous issues, many with no response, and in another issue, I posted information about a rules violator on the Amway Answers Blog, which was never published and no response given. Does Amway care? It seems that they do when it favors them and they don't care if not.
What makes it worse is that the Amway co-owner, Rich DeVos acknowledged that the "system", consisting of seminars and other tools, were basically an illegal pyramid scheme. Amway tried to reign in the abuse but when certain "kingpins" fought against Amway, sales dropped significantly and the tool abuse went on.
Now, many years later, some Amway groups continue tool abuse. Dateline in 2004 exposed the scam and there were some incidents with some leaders and groups that pruned some of the Amway abusers, but still, it didn't seem as if Amway did anything of substance to curb the abuses. The tools are still promoted in unethical means and even though Amway started an accreditation program, many groups have skirted the spirit of the program and Amway, despite their claims, have apparently turned a "blimd eye" to the issues.
If you examines my former LOS, (WWDB), you can find ample evidence that nothing has changed from my time in the business to now. There is still abuse, lies and deception. Amway claims to address issues, but I have emeiled them numerous issues, many with no response, and in another issue, I posted information about a rules violator on the Amway Answers Blog, which was never published and no response given. Does Amway care? It seems that they do when it favors them and they don't care if not.
Friday, December 2, 2011
Endless Amway Motivation?
I believe that Amway IBOs have approximately a 50% attrition rate for the first year alone. If you look at a 5 year window, I believe the attrition rate is something like 95%. So what we're saying is that out of 100 IBOs, only 5 will be around in 5 years, or out of 1000 IBOs, 50 will remain after 5 years. This is extremely significant because if you are a business builder, you will need to replace half of your IBOs every single year. For this reason, I am very doubtful that there are IBOs who "built the business right and built it once", who no longer do Amway related work, but still collect significant residual income. I would guess that significant income could be defined as being enough to live a lifestyle in the top tax bracket (for the US) without having to report to a J-O-B.
Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?
Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.
All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank
Now I understand that some IBOs take it personally when I bring up subjects like this. It is because they have been deceived by some upline diamond or big pin who has sold them on a dream of financial prosperity for life if they will only work hard for 2-5 years. I once thought so too, but realized that there isn't a single diamond that I know of who built the business right and walked away to enjoy the beaches of the world while truckloads of money rolls in. Kinda makes you wonder why you see Crowns still working, and diamonds actually quitting or resigning. I have asked the question many times and it has never been answered. Can anyone name a few people who built their business right and built it once who is currently enjoying these lifelong residuals? Also, if that were a benefit, why doesn't Amway say so?
Instead, you have a constant and endless flow of motivation being sold to IBOs. This motivation comes in the form of cds, books, meetings, functions and other things like voicemail messages. It's sad that IBOs have to continue to pay through the nose for motivation and "teaching" about the Amway business when there are cheaper and more efficient means of communication. For example, why would you need an expensive voicemail when a facebook group account can disseminate messages to your group in seconds at no cost? It is because the uplines want to extract every possible sent from their downline. Because of the internet, I believe people are starting to figure things out and avoid the systems altogether. I hope Joecool's blog contributes to this.
All the motivation IBOs truly need is to see a net profit at the end of the month. If IBOs actually earned an extra $200 a month, or $50 a month, or $600 a month as advertised, there would be no need for motivational speeches. The IBOs would simply look at the growth in their finances and they would keep going. The poor retention rate is easy to explain. IBOs are losing money because of the system expenses and they lose their motivation to continue. If you are an IBO or a prospect, stop and think for a minute. If you are making an extra $200 a month with minimal effort, would you need functions and other materials to motivate you? Or would you have intrinsic motivation from the profit? All the motivation you will ever need is a net profit. Take that to the bank
Thursday, December 1, 2011
The Amway Financial Freedom Myth?
Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis.
I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me.
But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.
1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.
2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?
I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me.
But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.
1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.
2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?
Tuesday, November 29, 2011
Only Amway IBOs Are "Winners"?
One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Or that you were a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.
In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway/IBO world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.
In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stand for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!
Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should hand him a mirror.
Friday, November 25, 2011
Amway IBOs Should Face The Facts
One thing that appears to be common amongst IBOs is how IBOs are in denial. They truly believe that their uplines are working in their best interest and that upline wants their success. I don't believe that to be true. If uplines were truly making a fortune from Amway, why would an downline IBO have to pay for practically every bit of help they get from upline leaders? Do upline leaders actually evaluate your business before advising you to buy more tools?
To show the plan, you would need to pay to attend an open meeting, and pay for your guests, even if they do not register as a result of the presentation. You pay for voicemail to communikate with your upline and downlines. You pay for standing orders and you may end up paying twice if you were in attendance at the function when the standing order was recorded. You pay for books and other materials as well.
What's more, many IBOs turn their heads when ugly facts rear their heads. For example, some IBOs deny that a prominent triple diamond was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. They continue to edify and pay for financial advice from someone who could not even manage his own finances. They believe that Amway saves marriages even when the leaders who speak this may be getting divorced. It's like upline simply revises history and downlines buy it without question. Many IBOs do not even see it as a problem that some upline boldy lied and said there were no profits from tools in the past. I find this odd because tool profits are still shrouded in secrecy and downline simply believe that they will eventually get a cut, even without a written compensation plan and agreement.
I believe too many IBOs are simply in denial. They give upline their trust and upline abuses it. IBOs are told they are successful for attending a function even when they might be losing money month after month. They may be told that the Amway business is not about money but about making friends. They may be told that they are nicer people because of their participation in Amway. What too many IBOs do not see is that they are in denial about their business. Most IBOs are losing money, a little at a time, perhaps $100 or $150 a month. For the hardcore, maybe more. But they are taught to ignore these simple facts and deny that there is a problem.
It is my hope that exposure of some of these tactics will be beneficial to information seekers and perhaps new IBOs who have not yet been fully indoctrinated. I encourage people to ask tough questions, demand answers and use due diligence when checking out this oppportunity. The fact is that very few people every make a profit and people should know this before getting involved. Don't deny the obvious.
To show the plan, you would need to pay to attend an open meeting, and pay for your guests, even if they do not register as a result of the presentation. You pay for voicemail to communikate with your upline and downlines. You pay for standing orders and you may end up paying twice if you were in attendance at the function when the standing order was recorded. You pay for books and other materials as well.
What's more, many IBOs turn their heads when ugly facts rear their heads. For example, some IBOs deny that a prominent triple diamond was involved in bankruptcy proceedings. They continue to edify and pay for financial advice from someone who could not even manage his own finances. They believe that Amway saves marriages even when the leaders who speak this may be getting divorced. It's like upline simply revises history and downlines buy it without question. Many IBOs do not even see it as a problem that some upline boldy lied and said there were no profits from tools in the past. I find this odd because tool profits are still shrouded in secrecy and downline simply believe that they will eventually get a cut, even without a written compensation plan and agreement.
I believe too many IBOs are simply in denial. They give upline their trust and upline abuses it. IBOs are told they are successful for attending a function even when they might be losing money month after month. They may be told that the Amway business is not about money but about making friends. They may be told that they are nicer people because of their participation in Amway. What too many IBOs do not see is that they are in denial about their business. Most IBOs are losing money, a little at a time, perhaps $100 or $150 a month. For the hardcore, maybe more. But they are taught to ignore these simple facts and deny that there is a problem.
It is my hope that exposure of some of these tactics will be beneficial to information seekers and perhaps new IBOs who have not yet been fully indoctrinated. I encourage people to ask tough questions, demand answers and use due diligence when checking out this oppportunity. The fact is that very few people every make a profit and people should know this before getting involved. Don't deny the obvious.
Wednesday, November 23, 2011
Happy Thanksgiving From Joecool
With Thanksgiving upon us, I want to wish everyone a Happy Thankgiving! For those on the roads, I wish you safe travels and a blessed return trip. I hope families can truly reflect on what they are thankful for that that any differences can be reconciled.
I hope everyone has enough to eat and can enjoy a nice meal with friends and family!
I hope everyone has enough to eat and can enjoy a nice meal with friends and family!
Tuesday, November 22, 2011
Amway - Vertical Alignment?
When I was an IBO, and even now, there is ample evidence that uplines continue to teach contradictory and poor business practices. I believe the abuse of downline continues because nobody has ever corrected or held upline accountable for their bad advice or even outright lies, such as the previous claim that nobody made a profit from tools. While some of the teaching might make sense on the surface, I believe that much of the upline teaching has an under current designed to profit the upline at the expense of those they are advising.
For example, upline may teach you to get out of debt and live below your means. While that may seem like good advice, it is rendered meaningless if your sacrifices and savings are spent on purchasing tools. I've recently been following the blog of an IBO who got out of debt by selling his home and cashing out his 401K. I believe he was advised by upline to do this. The sad thing is that I believe he is overspending on tools and products with the savings he realized by wiping out (most of) his debts. The upline likely wants you to live below your means and eliminate debt so your disposable cash can be channeled towards tools. I seriousbly doubt that the hard tool pushers really care whether IBOs profit or not, as long as they buy tools. It is why a failure to progress in business often leads an upline to advise the IBO to buy more tools.
A really interesting piece of advice would be to get into vertical alignment. Which is God = #1, Spouse #2, family #3, job #4 and Amway #5. Yet anytime a conflict comes up with a function or a business meeting, the "priorities" somehow turn out where the Amway meeting becomes #1. Sadly, I have seen some dedicated IBOs miss their kids childhood days chasing the Amway dream and they never earn a net profit. If your upline teaches this, I would urge you to consider keeping Amway at #5 and not reschedule family or church gatherings.
Selling products are vital to running a business, yet many uplines do not place emphasis on this aspect. Many IBOs are taught to self consume products. If this happens, then the only way for IBOs to earn an income is to recruit downline. This borders on the parameters of legal. Also, it creates an artificial need for Amway products. How many former IBOs consistently use 100 to 300 PV? How many current IBOs actually use that much without being taught it? How many of you spent over $100 a month on vitamins? How many if you drank energy drinks or $48 for a case of (perfect) water?
Some uplines also emphasize the "side benefits" of the business such as you being a nicer person, which may or may not be true, depending on the perspective of others. They may say that they are your friends for life, at least until you miss a function. They may claim that Amway saves marriages, while not talking about IBOs who may have divorced BECAUSE of the Amway opportunity. Try this, stop being CORE and see how long some of those lifelong friendships last. Once I stopped being CORE, I never heard a peep from any of my lifelong Amway friends.
Many uplines will teach downline IBOs things that benefit the upline and not the IBOs themselves. If you see or hear some of these ideas or others. I urge you to ask tough questions about why the teaching may be contradictory to the princioples of business or of what they are teaching. If you are taught to get out of debt, I do not believe your savings from doing this should be spent on functions. You should seriously reconsider adding debt to build your business, afterall, you were probably told that the Amway business has little to no risk or overhead. Hold your upline to their promises. Do not allow them to manipulate it for their own benefit.
Good luck to IBOs and prospects, but seriously think about teaching that does not add up.
For example, upline may teach you to get out of debt and live below your means. While that may seem like good advice, it is rendered meaningless if your sacrifices and savings are spent on purchasing tools. I've recently been following the blog of an IBO who got out of debt by selling his home and cashing out his 401K. I believe he was advised by upline to do this. The sad thing is that I believe he is overspending on tools and products with the savings he realized by wiping out (most of) his debts. The upline likely wants you to live below your means and eliminate debt so your disposable cash can be channeled towards tools. I seriousbly doubt that the hard tool pushers really care whether IBOs profit or not, as long as they buy tools. It is why a failure to progress in business often leads an upline to advise the IBO to buy more tools.
A really interesting piece of advice would be to get into vertical alignment. Which is God = #1, Spouse #2, family #3, job #4 and Amway #5. Yet anytime a conflict comes up with a function or a business meeting, the "priorities" somehow turn out where the Amway meeting becomes #1. Sadly, I have seen some dedicated IBOs miss their kids childhood days chasing the Amway dream and they never earn a net profit. If your upline teaches this, I would urge you to consider keeping Amway at #5 and not reschedule family or church gatherings.
Selling products are vital to running a business, yet many uplines do not place emphasis on this aspect. Many IBOs are taught to self consume products. If this happens, then the only way for IBOs to earn an income is to recruit downline. This borders on the parameters of legal. Also, it creates an artificial need for Amway products. How many former IBOs consistently use 100 to 300 PV? How many current IBOs actually use that much without being taught it? How many of you spent over $100 a month on vitamins? How many if you drank energy drinks or $48 for a case of (perfect) water?
Some uplines also emphasize the "side benefits" of the business such as you being a nicer person, which may or may not be true, depending on the perspective of others. They may say that they are your friends for life, at least until you miss a function. They may claim that Amway saves marriages, while not talking about IBOs who may have divorced BECAUSE of the Amway opportunity. Try this, stop being CORE and see how long some of those lifelong friendships last. Once I stopped being CORE, I never heard a peep from any of my lifelong Amway friends.
Many uplines will teach downline IBOs things that benefit the upline and not the IBOs themselves. If you see or hear some of these ideas or others. I urge you to ask tough questions about why the teaching may be contradictory to the princioples of business or of what they are teaching. If you are taught to get out of debt, I do not believe your savings from doing this should be spent on functions. You should seriously reconsider adding debt to build your business, afterall, you were probably told that the Amway business has little to no risk or overhead. Hold your upline to their promises. Do not allow them to manipulate it for their own benefit.
Good luck to IBOs and prospects, but seriously think about teaching that does not add up.
Monday, November 21, 2011
Amway IBOs And Tax Deductions?
One of the things that I have observed is how IBOs are so misguided by their upline, that they think that their business losses, which result in a tax refund is somewhat like a profit, or that they are getting a free pass with the government footing the bill for their standing orders and functions. In the past, IBOs have been audited and had many business deductions disallowed because the tax department ruled that they were not truly running a business, but participating in a hobby called Amway. Sadly, this only made some IBO's losses even worse as they had their losses magnified because of their participation in Amway and the systems.
I know that most IBOs are deducting the cost of their training materials on their taxes, but the issue at hand is whether the training materials are resulting in increased sales for your business. If you are running a "buy from yourself" business, then there is a strong possibility that your expenses may not be valid deductions come tax time. If you are not selling products to customers for a profit, then there is a chance that your expenses are not valid deductions. It would be sad indeed to be audited at tax time a few years after you have been an Amway business owner, only to find out that your expenses are not valid and that you may owe tens of thousands of dollars in back taxes.
Another apparently common mistake of IBOs is to think that their business expenses are basically free from the government because they may end up with a tax return. Your expenses are deductible from your taxable income. Thus if you had $10,000 in business expenses, your return would depend on your tax bracket. If you are in the 15% tax bracket, then $10,000 in expenses would get you about a $1,500 tax return, depending on other deductions you may have. But IBOs get duped into thinking they made a score and now get back $1,500 when they may not have had a refund in the past. Obviously in this case, the IBO would have been better off saving the $10,000 and never getting involved in Amway. Some IBOs proudly proclaim their refunds as basically a windfall, almost like it is a profit. That is truly scary.
Folks, there is no free ride. If you are spending money on legitimate business expenses with an intent to make a profit, then there is nothing wrong with that. But if you are traveling to conventions hoping to learn the secret of sponsoring more downline, you could be walking on thin ice should the IRS ever decide to audit your business. There have been many cases in the past where not only did IBOs lose their shirts due to the business support materials they purchaed, but they got double whammied later when the IRS disallowed tax deductions, leaving them in financial ruin. I truly hope you aren't on that path.
Check out this link:
http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/irs.html
"TRAVEL AND ENTERTAINMENT have always been areas of abuse. Sections 162, 262, and 274 are always applicable and sometimes Section 183. Since most of the travel is primarily to attend social gatherings for entertainment and motivational purposes, any real business purpose is suspect. Unless the taxpayer can show that attending seminars, meetings, etc., meets the requirement of Section 162, the travel should be disallowed. Amway people have been unable to show that attending these meetinqs increased their sales. The agendas of these meetings appear to be primarily for entertainment, socializing, and listening to motivational speeches. The meetings have nothing to do with promoting the sale of Amway products to the general public. In fact, Amway distributors are specifically warned aqainst mentioning either Amway or selling when recruitinq potential downline people. Since it is not likely that the taxpayer will increase his sales by attending these functions, then there is not a reasonable business purpose for the trips"
I know that most IBOs are deducting the cost of their training materials on their taxes, but the issue at hand is whether the training materials are resulting in increased sales for your business. If you are running a "buy from yourself" business, then there is a strong possibility that your expenses may not be valid deductions come tax time. If you are not selling products to customers for a profit, then there is a chance that your expenses are not valid deductions. It would be sad indeed to be audited at tax time a few years after you have been an Amway business owner, only to find out that your expenses are not valid and that you may owe tens of thousands of dollars in back taxes.
Another apparently common mistake of IBOs is to think that their business expenses are basically free from the government because they may end up with a tax return. Your expenses are deductible from your taxable income. Thus if you had $10,000 in business expenses, your return would depend on your tax bracket. If you are in the 15% tax bracket, then $10,000 in expenses would get you about a $1,500 tax return, depending on other deductions you may have. But IBOs get duped into thinking they made a score and now get back $1,500 when they may not have had a refund in the past. Obviously in this case, the IBO would have been better off saving the $10,000 and never getting involved in Amway. Some IBOs proudly proclaim their refunds as basically a windfall, almost like it is a profit. That is truly scary.
Folks, there is no free ride. If you are spending money on legitimate business expenses with an intent to make a profit, then there is nothing wrong with that. But if you are traveling to conventions hoping to learn the secret of sponsoring more downline, you could be walking on thin ice should the IRS ever decide to audit your business. There have been many cases in the past where not only did IBOs lose their shirts due to the business support materials they purchaed, but they got double whammied later when the IRS disallowed tax deductions, leaving them in financial ruin. I truly hope you aren't on that path.
Check out this link:
http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/irs.html
"TRAVEL AND ENTERTAINMENT have always been areas of abuse. Sections 162, 262, and 274 are always applicable and sometimes Section 183. Since most of the travel is primarily to attend social gatherings for entertainment and motivational purposes, any real business purpose is suspect. Unless the taxpayer can show that attending seminars, meetings, etc., meets the requirement of Section 162, the travel should be disallowed. Amway people have been unable to show that attending these meetinqs increased their sales. The agendas of these meetings appear to be primarily for entertainment, socializing, and listening to motivational speeches. The meetings have nothing to do with promoting the sale of Amway products to the general public. In fact, Amway distributors are specifically warned aqainst mentioning either Amway or selling when recruitinq potential downline people. Since it is not likely that the taxpayer will increase his sales by attending these functions, then there is not a reasonable business purpose for the trips"
Saturday, November 19, 2011
IBOs, The Real Losers?
One of the things I recall as an IBO was thinking how sorry I felt for people who were not IBOs because we were all going to be rich and everyone else was a loser. Our upline used to tell us that we were winners - and if you weren't a winner, then obviously, you are a loser. Many times, the term "broke" was attached to the term loser. That was my mindset back then, but having been out of the system more than ten years, I can look back and laugh, realizing that the losers were the ones buying stuff they don't need, stalking people at malls and bookstores, and wasting their time and money on tapes (cds), books and functions.
What goes unnoticed in many cases, is how much time and money really goes down the drain for IBOs who work the system. Your life revolves around the business if you are dedicated and hard core. You are always looking for prospects and people to show the plan to, and you have to rearrange your schedules, or outright skip social or family gatherings because of the neverending number of meetings and functions, many of which teach you nothing about running a profitable business. When I first left the Amway business, I was sort of angry at the time and effort that was wasted, along with the cahs I threw down the crapper.
But after I did finally cut ties with the business and the people associated with it, I got back into a routine of sorts. I focused on my job and after some years of gaining experience and working my way up the corporate ladder, I received some promotions and I am scheduled to be retired before the age of 60 with a decent retirement income and will likely have my home paid off by then. So while I did have to work a dreaded job to be able to retire, pretty much all IBOs are also working a job or business PLUS having to expend their time and money to run their Amway business which has little to no chance of providing a long term stable and significant income. And if I may add, it is the systems such as WWDB or N21 that usually end up costing the IBOs the most money because of things like the functions.
So I will ask the question. Who's the real loser? The person diligently working and saving for their future or the person chasing a dream that is unlikely to materialize? Factoring in the expenditure of time also makes the systems even more costly than it appears on the surface.
What goes unnoticed in many cases, is how much time and money really goes down the drain for IBOs who work the system. Your life revolves around the business if you are dedicated and hard core. You are always looking for prospects and people to show the plan to, and you have to rearrange your schedules, or outright skip social or family gatherings because of the neverending number of meetings and functions, many of which teach you nothing about running a profitable business. When I first left the Amway business, I was sort of angry at the time and effort that was wasted, along with the cahs I threw down the crapper.
But after I did finally cut ties with the business and the people associated with it, I got back into a routine of sorts. I focused on my job and after some years of gaining experience and working my way up the corporate ladder, I received some promotions and I am scheduled to be retired before the age of 60 with a decent retirement income and will likely have my home paid off by then. So while I did have to work a dreaded job to be able to retire, pretty much all IBOs are also working a job or business PLUS having to expend their time and money to run their Amway business which has little to no chance of providing a long term stable and significant income. And if I may add, it is the systems such as WWDB or N21 that usually end up costing the IBOs the most money because of things like the functions.
So I will ask the question. Who's the real loser? The person diligently working and saving for their future or the person chasing a dream that is unlikely to materialize? Factoring in the expenditure of time also makes the systems even more costly than it appears on the surface.
Thursday, November 17, 2011
"Anyone" Can Succeed In Amway?
One of the "false hope" things my upline used to tell our group was that everyone was going to succeed. That although things are tough, one day we will all be at diamond club together looking back at the struggles and laughing. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. One of the things that Amway promoters like to state is that "anyone" can succeed", but in the same line of reasoning, I could also say that "anyone" can win the lottery. The same thing can apply to not "everyone" can succeed in Amway and not "everyone" can win the lottery. Amway is not a game of chance like the lottery, but this still applies.
Using the term "anyone can succeed" is simply a statement that gives people hope. It appears that Amway promoters love to use the psychology of giving people hope as a means of recruiting and retaining IBOs. Hope is what keeps people motivated. The problem with the Amway opportunity, is that it is false hope. It is very easy to see that in most groups, the majority of downline IBOs will lose money. The majority of active IBOs, if they receive a bonus, will get only about $10 a month from Amway. If they use voicemail, or subscribe to standing order, they are already at a net loss for the month. Never mind the open meetings, major functions and other expenses associated with the Amway business.
I believe it is hope that makes gambling popular. One pull on a slot machine handle can change your life. Many IBOs believe that one good run of business can change thir lives. Unfortunately, the Amway business has not appeared to produced much fruit in North America. It seems that any new success is simply replacing older pins who no longer qualify. In my opinion, it is a telltale sign that Amway has stopped reporting North American sales. I'm sure if sales were up, they would stand on their rooftops and trumpet out such success. While Amway reported an increase in sales, there is insufficient data to determine the cause and effect of the sales increase. I have heard some chatter that it could be a result of increased prices. I wish the corporation would just be more transparent about these issues.
To summarize, "anyone" can succeed. But that simply means that you never know who the next platinum or diamond may be. You don't know where they will come from. And it is unlikely to be a new recruit. If you are using a system such as N21, WWDB, or BWW, then I can say with certainty, that "everyone" cannot succeed.
Using the term "anyone can succeed" is simply a statement that gives people hope. It appears that Amway promoters love to use the psychology of giving people hope as a means of recruiting and retaining IBOs. Hope is what keeps people motivated. The problem with the Amway opportunity, is that it is false hope. It is very easy to see that in most groups, the majority of downline IBOs will lose money. The majority of active IBOs, if they receive a bonus, will get only about $10 a month from Amway. If they use voicemail, or subscribe to standing order, they are already at a net loss for the month. Never mind the open meetings, major functions and other expenses associated with the Amway business.
I believe it is hope that makes gambling popular. One pull on a slot machine handle can change your life. Many IBOs believe that one good run of business can change thir lives. Unfortunately, the Amway business has not appeared to produced much fruit in North America. It seems that any new success is simply replacing older pins who no longer qualify. In my opinion, it is a telltale sign that Amway has stopped reporting North American sales. I'm sure if sales were up, they would stand on their rooftops and trumpet out such success. While Amway reported an increase in sales, there is insufficient data to determine the cause and effect of the sales increase. I have heard some chatter that it could be a result of increased prices. I wish the corporation would just be more transparent about these issues.
To summarize, "anyone" can succeed. But that simply means that you never know who the next platinum or diamond may be. You don't know where they will come from. And it is unlikely to be a new recruit. If you are using a system such as N21, WWDB, or BWW, then I can say with certainty, that "everyone" cannot succeed.
Wednesday, November 16, 2011
What If Everyone Joined Amway?
The point of this blog post is to illustrate that the Amway opportunity is simply not sustainable and that the market is basically saturated in North America. I know Amway recently released some propaganda on the average IBO income being up, but once again, a clear explanation of how they derived the numbers was not given. For all we know, they have hve simply excluded more IBOs by declaring them as "inactive". Anytime I heard the word Amway, it frequently draws funny looks from people. I know that Amway proponents will claim that Amway is not saturated, but in real life, you aren't going to have people lining up to join. It is why there are countless stories of people being lied to or tricked into attending recruitment meetings.
So in reviewing the common 6-4-2 plan, there are 79 IBOs and one becomes a platinum. And that is with the generous assumption that all of these IBOs are moving 100 PV consistently each month. Factor in some folks who do little or nothing and some who order infrequently and anyone can reasonably conclude that a platinum business will commonly have well over 100 downline IBOs. Now with that being said, what if everyone in the entire world suddenly had an epiphany and decided to join Amway?
Well, the structure of most platinum businesses won't change. You will still likely have more than 100 downline in each platinum group. The platinum will make some money and most downline, especially those on the system of cds and functions will lose money. Thus less than 1% of the IBO population can realistically be a platinum at any given time. Whether is now or whether the entire planet signs up for Amway, it will always be less than 1% of the IBO population at the platinum level. That is how the system is set up. The only exceptions to this rule would be for IBOs to sell enough PV to make up for a lack of downline. But there is ample testimony and evidence to indicate that many IBOs simply self consume their PV because they cannot or do not like selling. Some AMo groups teach IBOs to almost exclusively consume their own volume. My former LOS, WWDB did not emphasize selling, but focused on recruiting. And why not? The reality is you cannot go emerald or diamond without many downlines.
So even if every person on earth joined Amway, there would still be less than 1% of IBOs at the platinum level and very likely that less than 1% of IBOs would be at a net profit. Some proponents argue that many IBOs sign up and do nothing or sign up and don't order products. So what? They are still IBOs and even if you didn't count them in averages, what I have posted above explains why the success rate (platinum) still cannot amount to much more than 1% even at the best case scenario.
Still thinking about registering for Amway? Do your research and you may want to think about this article.
So in reviewing the common 6-4-2 plan, there are 79 IBOs and one becomes a platinum. And that is with the generous assumption that all of these IBOs are moving 100 PV consistently each month. Factor in some folks who do little or nothing and some who order infrequently and anyone can reasonably conclude that a platinum business will commonly have well over 100 downline IBOs. Now with that being said, what if everyone in the entire world suddenly had an epiphany and decided to join Amway?
Well, the structure of most platinum businesses won't change. You will still likely have more than 100 downline in each platinum group. The platinum will make some money and most downline, especially those on the system of cds and functions will lose money. Thus less than 1% of the IBO population can realistically be a platinum at any given time. Whether is now or whether the entire planet signs up for Amway, it will always be less than 1% of the IBO population at the platinum level. That is how the system is set up. The only exceptions to this rule would be for IBOs to sell enough PV to make up for a lack of downline. But there is ample testimony and evidence to indicate that many IBOs simply self consume their PV because they cannot or do not like selling. Some AMo groups teach IBOs to almost exclusively consume their own volume. My former LOS, WWDB did not emphasize selling, but focused on recruiting. And why not? The reality is you cannot go emerald or diamond without many downlines.
So even if every person on earth joined Amway, there would still be less than 1% of IBOs at the platinum level and very likely that less than 1% of IBOs would be at a net profit. Some proponents argue that many IBOs sign up and do nothing or sign up and don't order products. So what? They are still IBOs and even if you didn't count them in averages, what I have posted above explains why the success rate (platinum) still cannot amount to much more than 1% even at the best case scenario.
Still thinking about registering for Amway? Do your research and you may want to think about this article.
Tuesday, November 15, 2011
Looking Beyond The Amway Facade?
One of the things that Diamonds and some other leaders do to attract new IBOs is to put on a dog and pony show. They want prospects to think that you can consume Amway products and get others to follow your lead and in a few years, you will be set for life financially, speaking on stages and securing the future for generations to come. They might use props such as pictures of mansion. slideshows of cars, yets, yachts. It looks impressive but based on what I know now, who knows whether the diamonds actually own this stuff or if they are simply showing you a slideshow of "lifestyles of the rich and famous". The reality is very likely that many diamonds are actually living in debt or bonus check to bonus check. It is a fact that more than half of NBA basketball pros end up broke, and they earn more than diamonds. Why would a diamond be different than the average Joe, especially when they appear to live beyond their means.
In the few cases where diamond income was exposed, we can see that they were not making the kind of money they would have you believe. Triple diamond Greg Duncan was making about half a million a year from Amway. A nice income for sure, but not what people would think, and not enough to save Mr. Duncan from bankruptcy. David Shores lost a home to foreclosure. Another diamond, unnamed but documented in the book "Amway Motivational Organizations, Behind the Smoke and Mirrors", talks about a diamond who had a gross income of over 3 million dollars, and a net of about $320,000. This diamond was in debt, had back taxes owed to the government, and was working hard to portray the diamond lifestyle.
Some of these leaders also use religion or Christianity as a means to justify their involvement in the business. For those who know, the Bible is clear that the love of money can lead to destruction. When you have functions such as Dream Night, what does that say? I would also like to note that in cases where these diamond's financials were exposed, there were no significant contributions to charity. I wonder if these charlatans talk a good game but do not contribute time or money to worthy causes? Where are the ten thousand dollar checks they talk about donating to charity? These leaders often refer to themselves as mentors, but any help they provide to downline results in some kind of compensation for them. This is not a mentor, but more like a paid consultant who is not getting effective results.
Behind the nice suits and the glitz of the functions, I believe that IBOs and prospects would see a world they truly would not want to be a part of. A world where deceit is practically needed to succeed. Where you take advantage of people who trust in you. Where you pretend to be wealthy and free, but in reality a slave to the mighty dollar. Where you traded a 9-5 job for a job that works the graveyard shift. If you look objectively behind the facade, you might see what I see.
In the few cases where diamond income was exposed, we can see that they were not making the kind of money they would have you believe. Triple diamond Greg Duncan was making about half a million a year from Amway. A nice income for sure, but not what people would think, and not enough to save Mr. Duncan from bankruptcy. David Shores lost a home to foreclosure. Another diamond, unnamed but documented in the book "Amway Motivational Organizations, Behind the Smoke and Mirrors", talks about a diamond who had a gross income of over 3 million dollars, and a net of about $320,000. This diamond was in debt, had back taxes owed to the government, and was working hard to portray the diamond lifestyle.
Some of these leaders also use religion or Christianity as a means to justify their involvement in the business. For those who know, the Bible is clear that the love of money can lead to destruction. When you have functions such as Dream Night, what does that say? I would also like to note that in cases where these diamond's financials were exposed, there were no significant contributions to charity. I wonder if these charlatans talk a good game but do not contribute time or money to worthy causes? Where are the ten thousand dollar checks they talk about donating to charity? These leaders often refer to themselves as mentors, but any help they provide to downline results in some kind of compensation for them. This is not a mentor, but more like a paid consultant who is not getting effective results.
Behind the nice suits and the glitz of the functions, I believe that IBOs and prospects would see a world they truly would not want to be a part of. A world where deceit is practically needed to succeed. Where you take advantage of people who trust in you. Where you pretend to be wealthy and free, but in reality a slave to the mighty dollar. Where you traded a 9-5 job for a job that works the graveyard shift. If you look objectively behind the facade, you might see what I see.
Monday, November 14, 2011
Upline Wolves In Sheep's Clothing?
The really insidious part about some of the LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat ruthless businessmen with nice suits, and disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is true, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary.
They may even claim moral superiority such as using religion as a basis for building the business. I heard some leaders say "Amway is a God pleasing business". Really? God likes lying and exploiting others? I would beg to differ. They might tell you lies such as Amway and/or WWDB IBOs have a lower divorce level than the world. They may tell you a bunch of unsubstantiated details. I urge IBOs to verify and confirm claims like these.
As an IBO, the diamonds may tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniverssary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an "investment" into your business.
Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own seperate standing orders. Brad Duncen even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.
In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?
Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are cutthroat wolves in sheep's clothing who will take your last dime if you allow them to.
They may even claim moral superiority such as using religion as a basis for building the business. I heard some leaders say "Amway is a God pleasing business". Really? God likes lying and exploiting others? I would beg to differ. They might tell you lies such as Amway and/or WWDB IBOs have a lower divorce level than the world. They may tell you a bunch of unsubstantiated details. I urge IBOs to verify and confirm claims like these.
As an IBO, the diamonds may tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniverssary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an "investment" into your business.
Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own seperate standing orders. Brad Duncen even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.
In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?
Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are cutthroat wolves in sheep's clothing who will take your last dime if you allow them to.
Thursday, November 10, 2011
Dear Amway:
This is an open letter basically explaining Joecool's position and why in my opinion, criticism of Amway doesn't stop.
Dear Amway,
Why does criticism of Amway continue Ad Nauseum? Because you have not taken any apparent visible action(s) against higher level IBOs who make their living by ripping off unsuspecting prospects and faithful downline by feeding them lines about how easy it is to build an Amway business and how they can ditch their jobs and live on easy street. I saw it and there are countless testimonies and experiences posted on the internet.
When I was an IBO in WWDB, we were fed outright lies by upline. Nobody made any money from tools being the biggest. Downline were taught how long they could string out their mortgages or electric bills so they can attend functions and buy more tools. Yes, IBOs have culpability as well, but the culture of these groups is one of trust and loyalty to the diamonds. Amway's owner, Mr. DeVos acknowledged this in his 1983 speech "directly speaking". But despite the speech, no apparent visible action was taken, thus status quo continued. Even the accreditation system which seemed nice on the surface appears to be a farce. I believe that possibly millions of people over the years have been adversely affected financially because of some of these Amway IBO leaders.
Many of the same leaders who lied to benefit themselves are still at it. A fellow blogger named "Rocket" recently reported a possible violation where crown ambassador and IBOAI member, Brad Duncan is caught on tape claiming that IBOs can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month in Amway. Your response was to make non sensical remarks and then eventually no response when pressed for one. I also reported a WWDB IBO who was making disparaging and false statements about some competitor's products while making misleading positive statements about Amway products. Your response was no response and my comment wasn't even published on your "Amway Answers" blog. Ironically, one of the topics on that blog was about how Amway doesn't turn a blind eye to problems. Yeah, you can say it but your actions show something else.
Maybe someone can explain why actions in other countries indicate that the folks who sell Amway tools are scammers. For some reason, the regulatory agencies in the US have not taken notice of the tools business. The Dateline segment in 2004 exposed the tools and systems. It became a big debate on the internet with critics and proponents. While Amway can claim innocence because the unethical actions were taken by IBOs, or "independent" business owners, I still believe that Amway has a responsibility to reign is some of the sales force that represents them.
Food for thought: Joe Paterno was an assistant and head coach, an icon at Penn State University for more than 60 years. He was fired yesterday because he had knowledge of child abuse occuring at the program under his watch. While he was not personally guilty of this, and did many good things for Penn State and the community, still his inactions may have caused harm to befall innocent children. Ultimately, he had the ability and power to stop the wrongdoing but did not. It is a sad ending for a man who many consider a legend. I wish him well.
Amway can reign in the tool abuse and take control of some of the bad leaders, but apparently has not and will not. The fight goes on.....
Dear Amway,
Why does criticism of Amway continue Ad Nauseum? Because you have not taken any apparent visible action(s) against higher level IBOs who make their living by ripping off unsuspecting prospects and faithful downline by feeding them lines about how easy it is to build an Amway business and how they can ditch their jobs and live on easy street. I saw it and there are countless testimonies and experiences posted on the internet.
When I was an IBO in WWDB, we were fed outright lies by upline. Nobody made any money from tools being the biggest. Downline were taught how long they could string out their mortgages or electric bills so they can attend functions and buy more tools. Yes, IBOs have culpability as well, but the culture of these groups is one of trust and loyalty to the diamonds. Amway's owner, Mr. DeVos acknowledged this in his 1983 speech "directly speaking". But despite the speech, no apparent visible action was taken, thus status quo continued. Even the accreditation system which seemed nice on the surface appears to be a farce. I believe that possibly millions of people over the years have been adversely affected financially because of some of these Amway IBO leaders.
Many of the same leaders who lied to benefit themselves are still at it. A fellow blogger named "Rocket" recently reported a possible violation where crown ambassador and IBOAI member, Brad Duncan is caught on tape claiming that IBOs can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month in Amway. Your response was to make non sensical remarks and then eventually no response when pressed for one. I also reported a WWDB IBO who was making disparaging and false statements about some competitor's products while making misleading positive statements about Amway products. Your response was no response and my comment wasn't even published on your "Amway Answers" blog. Ironically, one of the topics on that blog was about how Amway doesn't turn a blind eye to problems. Yeah, you can say it but your actions show something else.
Maybe someone can explain why actions in other countries indicate that the folks who sell Amway tools are scammers. For some reason, the regulatory agencies in the US have not taken notice of the tools business. The Dateline segment in 2004 exposed the tools and systems. It became a big debate on the internet with critics and proponents. While Amway can claim innocence because the unethical actions were taken by IBOs, or "independent" business owners, I still believe that Amway has a responsibility to reign is some of the sales force that represents them.
Food for thought: Joe Paterno was an assistant and head coach, an icon at Penn State University for more than 60 years. He was fired yesterday because he had knowledge of child abuse occuring at the program under his watch. While he was not personally guilty of this, and did many good things for Penn State and the community, still his inactions may have caused harm to befall innocent children. Ultimately, he had the ability and power to stop the wrongdoing but did not. It is a sad ending for a man who many consider a legend. I wish him well.
Amway can reign in the tool abuse and take control of some of the bad leaders, but apparently has not and will not. The fight goes on.....
Wednesday, November 9, 2011
A Part Time Job vs The Amway Opportunity
Many people pitch Amway as an easy, and somewhat shortcut to riches. It's all over the internet, it's what I saw as an IBO, and I have good reason to believe that many still pitch Amway in this manner. I believe that people want to believe that you can create wealth part time in 2-5 years. IBOs and prospects may be told "it's not get rich quick", but 2-5 years to quit your job and live off residual income sure sounds like the pitch of a get rich quick scam. It is what has contributed to Amway's current reputation.
A typical IBO (not counting those who do nothing), according to the "plan" will consume and possibly sell some goods on their way to 100 PV, which will earn them about a $10 bonus from Amway. There might be some profit from sales to customers, but there are also expenses involved in running a business. If an IBO is on the system, then their expenses might run from $100 or so to $500 a month, depending on level of commitment (brainwashing). In the end, a falwed system and generally non competitive pricing and products leads to most IBOs eventually quitting. The vast majority of IBOs on the system will wind up with a net loss, even with a tremendous amount of effort. Seems that effort has no relationship with success in Amway. Based on my experience, deception and lies seem to be a better way to succeed in Amway than by hard work.
But what if someone basically worked a part time job instead of Amway? If someone simply got a 20 hour a week job at $10 an hour (not that difficult), someone could earn about $800 a month gross income, or about
$9600 a year. In ten years, even with no raises in salary, that person would have earned close to $100,000 more income. That money, if invested into a diverse portfolio can be the nestegg that allow someone to retire early, or to retire more comfortably than most. And that salary is guaranteed if you work the hours.
In Amway, there are no assurances of anything, even if you work 40 hours a week. The only assurance if that you will help your upline earn more than yourself by moving products. If you are on the system, you are basically paying your upline (via tool puchases) for the priviledge of boosting your upline's volume. It is why uplines teach you to "never quit" and to be "core". These virtures help assure your upline of profits, but does little for the rank and file IBOs. I write this blog post just to stimulate thought amongst IBOs and prospects. There are better and easier options than the Amway opportunity. If you are reading this, you are looking at one potential alternative. It's your job to decide.
A typical IBO (not counting those who do nothing), according to the "plan" will consume and possibly sell some goods on their way to 100 PV, which will earn them about a $10 bonus from Amway. There might be some profit from sales to customers, but there are also expenses involved in running a business. If an IBO is on the system, then their expenses might run from $100 or so to $500 a month, depending on level of commitment (brainwashing). In the end, a falwed system and generally non competitive pricing and products leads to most IBOs eventually quitting. The vast majority of IBOs on the system will wind up with a net loss, even with a tremendous amount of effort. Seems that effort has no relationship with success in Amway. Based on my experience, deception and lies seem to be a better way to succeed in Amway than by hard work.
But what if someone basically worked a part time job instead of Amway? If someone simply got a 20 hour a week job at $10 an hour (not that difficult), someone could earn about $800 a month gross income, or about
$9600 a year. In ten years, even with no raises in salary, that person would have earned close to $100,000 more income. That money, if invested into a diverse portfolio can be the nestegg that allow someone to retire early, or to retire more comfortably than most. And that salary is guaranteed if you work the hours.
In Amway, there are no assurances of anything, even if you work 40 hours a week. The only assurance if that you will help your upline earn more than yourself by moving products. If you are on the system, you are basically paying your upline (via tool puchases) for the priviledge of boosting your upline's volume. It is why uplines teach you to "never quit" and to be "core". These virtures help assure your upline of profits, but does little for the rank and file IBOs. I write this blog post just to stimulate thought amongst IBOs and prospects. There are better and easier options than the Amway opportunity. If you are reading this, you are looking at one potential alternative. It's your job to decide.
Tuesday, November 8, 2011
The Purpose Of Night Owls And Small Group Meetings?
Based on my personal experience, and based on having read numerous acconts from other former IBOs, it's pretty clear that the higher uplines, absolve themselves of issues and problems by having others do their dirty work. While some leaders are bold enough to make dumb statements on stage, many uplines will have their "eagles" or platinums do their dirty work, which is to pass bad and often self serving advice to their downline. Advice that will help them (upline) to profit directly from the losses suffered by downline.
For example, a diamond may stand on stage and talk about the merits of getting out of debt. Now getting out of debt is a good thing and nobody should get caught up in credit card debt and other piles of debt. But so many times, I sat in meetings where the group was told they needed to be at the next funtion - no matter what. Do whatever it takes to get there, even if it meant selling personal belongings. Ironically, the solution to getting to the next major function did not involve selling Amway products. So many IBOs made sacrifices of time and money to get to the next function, but their business did not experience any growth in volume or downline. I saw many crossline IBOs attend meeting after meeting and function after function without any downline. They faithfully spent their time and money chasing a dream based on lies by the upline leaders. Our group was told that upline made zero profit on tools. While some groups now admit that profit is made on tools, there is still a lack of transparency about the tools profits and as far as I know, there are no formal written agreements with regards to the tool profits.
I also recall our platinums having platinum and above meetings while we were at major functions and it seemed that the platinums always had something to teach the group that was contrary to what we had just heard on stage and the platinum would tell us that he had the freshest information from the meeting. It's like the platinum was just a henchman for the diamonds and carried out their dirty deeds. Another example is how the diamonds taught vertical alignment where God is first, then your spouse, your kids, your job and in 5th place was your Amway business. But anytime an event such as a friend's wedding or an anniversary dinner or your kid's soccer game conflicted with an Amway event, the group was told "attend all meetings". All means all, is what our group was told. That is directly contrary to the concept of vertical alignment. In fact, the Amway IBOs became less useful to their communities and churches as they are constantly attending meetings and functions and unable to serve in other capacities. I also wondered whether the Amway business and tools consumption took away their abililty to tithe and give to the local charities. Our upline would tell us to go diamond and then send in $10,000checks as if that made it okay not to serve others and help the needy.
It is my informed opinion that this still goes on today, despite the claims of Amway appologists that my experience is twelve years old. There is ample evidence suggesting that very little has changed from 20 years ago. In fact, many of the leaders from my IBO days are still teaching unethical things to this day. Many Upline passes bad advice downline, but they do it in sneaky ways such as having their downline leaders pass the information on. This is also how Amway itself can skirt some of their issues, as IBOs are not Amway employees, they are "independent". But most people in North America now know the truth and hopefully this article shines some light on that truth.
For example, a diamond may stand on stage and talk about the merits of getting out of debt. Now getting out of debt is a good thing and nobody should get caught up in credit card debt and other piles of debt. But so many times, I sat in meetings where the group was told they needed to be at the next funtion - no matter what. Do whatever it takes to get there, even if it meant selling personal belongings. Ironically, the solution to getting to the next major function did not involve selling Amway products. So many IBOs made sacrifices of time and money to get to the next function, but their business did not experience any growth in volume or downline. I saw many crossline IBOs attend meeting after meeting and function after function without any downline. They faithfully spent their time and money chasing a dream based on lies by the upline leaders. Our group was told that upline made zero profit on tools. While some groups now admit that profit is made on tools, there is still a lack of transparency about the tools profits and as far as I know, there are no formal written agreements with regards to the tool profits.
I also recall our platinums having platinum and above meetings while we were at major functions and it seemed that the platinums always had something to teach the group that was contrary to what we had just heard on stage and the platinum would tell us that he had the freshest information from the meeting. It's like the platinum was just a henchman for the diamonds and carried out their dirty deeds. Another example is how the diamonds taught vertical alignment where God is first, then your spouse, your kids, your job and in 5th place was your Amway business. But anytime an event such as a friend's wedding or an anniversary dinner or your kid's soccer game conflicted with an Amway event, the group was told "attend all meetings". All means all, is what our group was told. That is directly contrary to the concept of vertical alignment. In fact, the Amway IBOs became less useful to their communities and churches as they are constantly attending meetings and functions and unable to serve in other capacities. I also wondered whether the Amway business and tools consumption took away their abililty to tithe and give to the local charities. Our upline would tell us to go diamond and then send in $10,000checks as if that made it okay not to serve others and help the needy.
It is my informed opinion that this still goes on today, despite the claims of Amway appologists that my experience is twelve years old. There is ample evidence suggesting that very little has changed from 20 years ago. In fact, many of the leaders from my IBO days are still teaching unethical things to this day. Many Upline passes bad advice downline, but they do it in sneaky ways such as having their downline leaders pass the information on. This is also how Amway itself can skirt some of their issues, as IBOs are not Amway employees, they are "independent". But most people in North America now know the truth and hopefully this article shines some light on that truth.
Monday, November 7, 2011
"Why" Are You Building Amway?
One of the reasons why I joined Amway at one time in my life was because a close friend of mine had joined, and had gone platinum and convinced me of how easy it was and that I could easily do what he had done. Additionally, I was sold by delusions of residual income flowing for the rest of my life. I honestly thought that the one day would come when there would be no job and life's toughest decision would be where to have lunch.
I got serious and started building the business and eventually reached various levels, eventually topping off at the 4000 PV level. At that point, my upline had assured me that my net income would be $1000 a month with the right parameters. I had those parameters but my net income was zero because upline expected IBOs to reinvest all of their earnings into tools (standing orders, functions, etc). At that point, I began to question why we would do all the work and get no financial reward. I was told that the money would be there if I just kept working the business.
Apparently, many IBOs get in for various reasons and I'm sure that teh displays of mansions, jets and cars made some people salivate. Some really enjoyed the thought of telling off their boss and quitting their jobs because Amway was so lucrative. Many people believe it because they want to believe it. Many people would love financial freedom, especially when you have a 2-5 year shortcut to achieve it.
I recall some nite meetings where upline asked the group "why" we are building Amway. It was to spend more time with family, or to possibly gain financial freedom. A popular one was to retire the wife so she can be the one to care for the kids and eventually the dad wouold soon follow. In a nutshell, many people joined Amway as a means to have more time and more money. Money from your residual income and time because you won't need a job. The truly sad thing is that for the vast majority of people who try, even those who work hard at it, end up with less time and money as a result of Amway and the systems.
Rather than why you should build an Amway business, people would think about better and more realistic ways of securing their future. That hard fact is that only a fraction of 1% of people will ever make any decent money from Amway, and even those who might make some coin from Amway, much of that profit is rechanneled back into tools. IBOs would seriously be better off doing nothing than doing Amway.
I got serious and started building the business and eventually reached various levels, eventually topping off at the 4000 PV level. At that point, my upline had assured me that my net income would be $1000 a month with the right parameters. I had those parameters but my net income was zero because upline expected IBOs to reinvest all of their earnings into tools (standing orders, functions, etc). At that point, I began to question why we would do all the work and get no financial reward. I was told that the money would be there if I just kept working the business.
Apparently, many IBOs get in for various reasons and I'm sure that teh displays of mansions, jets and cars made some people salivate. Some really enjoyed the thought of telling off their boss and quitting their jobs because Amway was so lucrative. Many people believe it because they want to believe it. Many people would love financial freedom, especially when you have a 2-5 year shortcut to achieve it.
I recall some nite meetings where upline asked the group "why" we are building Amway. It was to spend more time with family, or to possibly gain financial freedom. A popular one was to retire the wife so she can be the one to care for the kids and eventually the dad wouold soon follow. In a nutshell, many people joined Amway as a means to have more time and more money. Money from your residual income and time because you won't need a job. The truly sad thing is that for the vast majority of people who try, even those who work hard at it, end up with less time and money as a result of Amway and the systems.
Rather than why you should build an Amway business, people would think about better and more realistic ways of securing their future. That hard fact is that only a fraction of 1% of people will ever make any decent money from Amway, and even those who might make some coin from Amway, much of that profit is rechanneled back into tools. IBOs would seriously be better off doing nothing than doing Amway.
Friday, November 4, 2011
The Problems With Amway?
The reason(s) why I feel that Amway is a poor business opportunity is for various reasons. While upline leaders and recruiters give recruits the pie in the sky view, the reality for most is not so pretty.
The products in general are priced uncompetitively. That isn't to say that there is no value in any Amway products, but overall, with the internet and big box retailers, you can almost guarantee that you can find products of equal value at a better price somewhere. It is why Amwayers end up talking about product concentration or "quality", which is subjective. I find it ironic that the quality and concentration doesn't seem to be enough to keep former IBOs as faithful customers.
The compensation plan is unfair to those who do the work. An IBO who moves 100 PV, roughly $300 in sales, usually gets the smallest cut of the bonus. $300 in sales generates about $90 to $100 in bonus money. Approxinately 90% of that bonus goes to layers and layers of upline (middlemen) and the IBO who did all the work might get $10 or so. Some of the upline who enjoy the bonus may have done nothing and may not even know the IBO who did the work. Most IBOs would be better off just selling some other products without being in an MLM and they could then keep all of the business and not have a minimum (100 PV) in order to qualify for a bonus.
The system consisting of voicemail, website fees, cds, books and functions do not work. Sure, some people may learn some techniques and gain some self improvement benefits. But a business exists to earn a profit and the system fails miserably in that regard. The system may churn out a diamond here and there, but these few successes amount to a tiny fraction of 1% of IBOs. Even IBOs who put in tremendous effort often find out that their hard work doesn't pay off. Instead, the system slowly drains IBO resources which is why most system IBOs end up with a net loss at the end of the month. IBOs who stay on the system for several years can be out tens of thousands of dollars, one cd and one function at a time, with no profit to speak of. This is despite uplines claiming that the system is so vital to your success. Recruits need to carefully analyze their progress or they can wake up a few months later and be out thousands of dollars.
I also wonder whether or not Amway actually takes any action against IBO rule breakers. I have, and seen others report obvious violations with no results. In some cases, the Amway folks would not even acknowledge or publish my comments when I have exposed rule violations. The accreditation process was a joke and there's plenty of evidence that nothing has changed, save for some cosmetic changes. The real issue was identified by Amway owner Rich DeVos in 1983 (Directly speaking) but it looks like doing the right thing hurt Amway sales so the violators were left alone and the result has been millions of people being adversely affected by the non action.
It is why I have had the resolve to keep blogging all of these years. to get the word out. That if you join Amway and the tools system, you are nearly assured of a net loss. Do the math and it is an easy conclusion to make. Good luck to all.
The products in general are priced uncompetitively. That isn't to say that there is no value in any Amway products, but overall, with the internet and big box retailers, you can almost guarantee that you can find products of equal value at a better price somewhere. It is why Amwayers end up talking about product concentration or "quality", which is subjective. I find it ironic that the quality and concentration doesn't seem to be enough to keep former IBOs as faithful customers.
The compensation plan is unfair to those who do the work. An IBO who moves 100 PV, roughly $300 in sales, usually gets the smallest cut of the bonus. $300 in sales generates about $90 to $100 in bonus money. Approxinately 90% of that bonus goes to layers and layers of upline (middlemen) and the IBO who did all the work might get $10 or so. Some of the upline who enjoy the bonus may have done nothing and may not even know the IBO who did the work. Most IBOs would be better off just selling some other products without being in an MLM and they could then keep all of the business and not have a minimum (100 PV) in order to qualify for a bonus.
The system consisting of voicemail, website fees, cds, books and functions do not work. Sure, some people may learn some techniques and gain some self improvement benefits. But a business exists to earn a profit and the system fails miserably in that regard. The system may churn out a diamond here and there, but these few successes amount to a tiny fraction of 1% of IBOs. Even IBOs who put in tremendous effort often find out that their hard work doesn't pay off. Instead, the system slowly drains IBO resources which is why most system IBOs end up with a net loss at the end of the month. IBOs who stay on the system for several years can be out tens of thousands of dollars, one cd and one function at a time, with no profit to speak of. This is despite uplines claiming that the system is so vital to your success. Recruits need to carefully analyze their progress or they can wake up a few months later and be out thousands of dollars.
I also wonder whether or not Amway actually takes any action against IBO rule breakers. I have, and seen others report obvious violations with no results. In some cases, the Amway folks would not even acknowledge or publish my comments when I have exposed rule violations. The accreditation process was a joke and there's plenty of evidence that nothing has changed, save for some cosmetic changes. The real issue was identified by Amway owner Rich DeVos in 1983 (Directly speaking) but it looks like doing the right thing hurt Amway sales so the violators were left alone and the result has been millions of people being adversely affected by the non action.
It is why I have had the resolve to keep blogging all of these years. to get the word out. That if you join Amway and the tools system, you are nearly assured of a net loss. Do the math and it is an easy conclusion to make. Good luck to all.
Thursday, November 3, 2011
Where's The Money?
When I was a young IBO, I saw the plan and thought it was realistic to go direct and to find six (6) downlines who could do the same thing. I didn't know the realistic chances of doing this, but the presentation made sense so I went with it. I basically built my group on excitement and it seemed like the system could work. Sadly, as I climbed the ranks, my bottom line did not change. I did not "net" $200 at the 1000 PV level, and I did not "net" $1000 a month at 4000 PV as my upline taught. I had the parameters they taught, but the reality was my leaders taught everyone to pump what little profits we earned into buying more tools.
My leaders also taught people to get out of debt, which was good advice on the surface, but at the same time, any disposable income left over was to be channeled into tools, and for those who did not escape debt, they were told it was okay to go deeper in debt, but only if it was to "invest" in their businesses by purchasing more tools. Thus it certainly appears that upline's advice was purely self serving and had nothing to do with an IBO's individual success.
I was in WWDB and they (upline) said that WWDB was breaking the most new diamonds and that WWDB diamonds were the most profitable. So here it is a dozen years later, where are all these new diamonds? Aside from from foreign diamonds, there are (I believe) less than 4 new diamonds from WWDB in the US from the time I left the business. Now I may be wrong, but even it was a few more than 4 new diamonds, that is a miserable success rate given the amount of cash spent by downline on tools and the claims made my upline about the tools.
We have also seen some WWDB diamonds end up in home foreclosures. Where is the integrity and financial acumen these leaders boasted about? Where is the success and long term financial security available to everyone that was touted? I believe more diamonds and emeralds fell out of qualification than new pins emerged. The business was promoted as one that would stand the test of time. Sadly, I believe WWDB and the Amway opportunity as promoted by WWDB has been a miserable failure.
There is little success to speak of, just he same old tired diamonds showing off a lifestyle that some of them apparently can no longer afford. Where is the success?
It is years later and we are still waiting.......
My leaders also taught people to get out of debt, which was good advice on the surface, but at the same time, any disposable income left over was to be channeled into tools, and for those who did not escape debt, they were told it was okay to go deeper in debt, but only if it was to "invest" in their businesses by purchasing more tools. Thus it certainly appears that upline's advice was purely self serving and had nothing to do with an IBO's individual success.
I was in WWDB and they (upline) said that WWDB was breaking the most new diamonds and that WWDB diamonds were the most profitable. So here it is a dozen years later, where are all these new diamonds? Aside from from foreign diamonds, there are (I believe) less than 4 new diamonds from WWDB in the US from the time I left the business. Now I may be wrong, but even it was a few more than 4 new diamonds, that is a miserable success rate given the amount of cash spent by downline on tools and the claims made my upline about the tools.
We have also seen some WWDB diamonds end up in home foreclosures. Where is the integrity and financial acumen these leaders boasted about? Where is the success and long term financial security available to everyone that was touted? I believe more diamonds and emeralds fell out of qualification than new pins emerged. The business was promoted as one that would stand the test of time. Sadly, I believe WWDB and the Amway opportunity as promoted by WWDB has been a miserable failure.
There is little success to speak of, just he same old tired diamonds showing off a lifestyle that some of them apparently can no longer afford. Where is the success?
It is years later and we are still waiting.......
Monday, October 31, 2011
Climbing The Amway Pyramid?
So many eager young people join Amway with the hopes that they will retire early, live a life of luxury and basically enjoy life with no worries. Most of the people who join Amway are very likely to be motivated, hard working and wanting more out of life. Their intentions are great but it leads to the question of why do so few people actually get anywhere in Amway and why are there so few new diamonds, at least in the US and Canada?
I think part of the problem is that the folks who recruit new prospects into Amway often imply that everyone has a chance to be a diamond and they also imply that it's not that difficult. I heard comments once that going platinum was so easy that someone's dog could do it. It's obviously not true when less than one percent of IBOs ever reach the platinum level and even those who do often are unable to maintain that level of volume.
Now let's break it down to numbers. A platinum group is often typically 100 to 150 IBOs. Of course not all of them are busy moving products or recruiting downline. A diamond group is six platinum groups plus some side volume, thus a diamond group is likely to have 750 to 1000 IBOs. Being a platinum can be compared to being the manager of a company and a diamond is like being a CEO of a big organization. In a job, you can work your way up and eventually become a manager or CEO. Some IBOs think they can never achieve those goals at work, but they mistakenly think they can surpass their sponsors in Amway so it's a better deal. But even if you earn more than your sponsor, does that mean you will eventually reach platinum or diamond? I think a better gauge of success would be those who go diamond. Diamond is often portrayed as the pinnacle of success and is the target shown in "the plan".
However, as I stated, going diamond would also be like achieving the level of CEO in a company. There is only so much room at the top. That is true. While there can be many diamonds, you would still need to have about 100 to 150 downline to achieve platinum and you would still need six platinum downline groups equating about 750 to 1000 downline IBOs to be diamond, plus your personal group. Thus a diamond is like a CEO who creates his own company. Factor in that half your group is likely to quit each year, thus you must replace hundreds of IBOs every year to maintain the minimum qualification of platinum or diamond. Add the in name "Amway" that makes some people cringe and maintaining a group is a daunting task. Imagine being a CEO of a company that loses half of their employees every year. That's what a diamond "lifestyle" includes.
It is my informed opinion that a diamond lifestyle is one of hectic schedules, constantly working to help your groups maintain volume and bringing in new IBOs, plus sponsoring and maintaining your own personal group of 2500 PV volume. If you cannot maintain 2500 PV personal volume, I believe you would not qualify for some of the bonuses paid by Amway. Also, because the rest of the workers normally works 8-5 or so, a diamond is out working the night shift and odd hours trying to keep the group intact. Also, factor in the travel to functions for speaking engagements and a constant churning of meetings and you have little time to actually work your business and spend time with family. Sadly, many people join to gain more time and money and they often end up with less time and less money because of their involvement with the constant meetings and functions.
So can someone succeed in Amway? Certainly it has been done, but I believe that many diamonds are possibly busier working odd hours than someone with a job with regular hours. The diamond lifestyle may be shown as fabulous, but I believe the reality is not as nice a picture. See my previous post about visiting with a diamond.
I think part of the problem is that the folks who recruit new prospects into Amway often imply that everyone has a chance to be a diamond and they also imply that it's not that difficult. I heard comments once that going platinum was so easy that someone's dog could do it. It's obviously not true when less than one percent of IBOs ever reach the platinum level and even those who do often are unable to maintain that level of volume.
Now let's break it down to numbers. A platinum group is often typically 100 to 150 IBOs. Of course not all of them are busy moving products or recruiting downline. A diamond group is six platinum groups plus some side volume, thus a diamond group is likely to have 750 to 1000 IBOs. Being a platinum can be compared to being the manager of a company and a diamond is like being a CEO of a big organization. In a job, you can work your way up and eventually become a manager or CEO. Some IBOs think they can never achieve those goals at work, but they mistakenly think they can surpass their sponsors in Amway so it's a better deal. But even if you earn more than your sponsor, does that mean you will eventually reach platinum or diamond? I think a better gauge of success would be those who go diamond. Diamond is often portrayed as the pinnacle of success and is the target shown in "the plan".
However, as I stated, going diamond would also be like achieving the level of CEO in a company. There is only so much room at the top. That is true. While there can be many diamonds, you would still need to have about 100 to 150 downline to achieve platinum and you would still need six platinum downline groups equating about 750 to 1000 downline IBOs to be diamond, plus your personal group. Thus a diamond is like a CEO who creates his own company. Factor in that half your group is likely to quit each year, thus you must replace hundreds of IBOs every year to maintain the minimum qualification of platinum or diamond. Add the in name "Amway" that makes some people cringe and maintaining a group is a daunting task. Imagine being a CEO of a company that loses half of their employees every year. That's what a diamond "lifestyle" includes.
It is my informed opinion that a diamond lifestyle is one of hectic schedules, constantly working to help your groups maintain volume and bringing in new IBOs, plus sponsoring and maintaining your own personal group of 2500 PV volume. If you cannot maintain 2500 PV personal volume, I believe you would not qualify for some of the bonuses paid by Amway. Also, because the rest of the workers normally works 8-5 or so, a diamond is out working the night shift and odd hours trying to keep the group intact. Also, factor in the travel to functions for speaking engagements and a constant churning of meetings and you have little time to actually work your business and spend time with family. Sadly, many people join to gain more time and money and they often end up with less time and less money because of their involvement with the constant meetings and functions.
So can someone succeed in Amway? Certainly it has been done, but I believe that many diamonds are possibly busier working odd hours than someone with a job with regular hours. The diamond lifestyle may be shown as fabulous, but I believe the reality is not as nice a picture. See my previous post about visiting with a diamond.
Friday, October 28, 2011
Why It's Hard To Quit Amway?
One of the things that keeps some IBOs going is the "alternative reality". What I mean by that is for some IBOs, once you have been in Amway for a while, it can be hard to quit. You may have been recruited with dreams of lifelong residual income and walking on all of the exotic beaches of the world. Retiring young and spending that time with your wife and family. To quit means an IBO would have to face the reality that these dreams will not come true, at least not with the Amway busines. The fact is that the Amway opportunity probably would not have delivered those dreams anyway. Even a diamond more than likely cannot afford those dreams. In fact I would estimate that most diamonds, if they flaunt some excessive lifestyle, are near broke or in heavy debt as a diamond income cannot sustain a jetset lifestyle, save for a founders crown ambassador or something similar. I believe the prominent WWDB triple diamond bankruptcy shed a lot of light into the finances of an upper level pin and it wasn't nearly as impressive as I would have thought.
But what is the reality? It's working hard only to drift between 100 and 500 PV. It's finally sponsoring a new IBO only to have a downline quit. It's talking to people about Amway and getting laughed at or getting rejected. It's your upline or sponsor pushing you to do more. Possibly your upline is one who questions your manhood if you aren't working hard enough. It's your upline or sponsor reminding you that a winner doesn't miss functions, especially the major ones. It's staying up late for team meetings or nite owls when you need a good nite's rest to do your job the next day. It's driving the miles to show a plan, only to have your prospect not show up. It's having to be deceptive about what you are doing. It's skipping functions with family and friends so you can be core to the business.
As IBOs, do you see any of this? I saw much of this during my involvement. While I have not been an IBO in some years now, I still see many testimonies and comments by more current and even some active IBOs to indicate that a lot of this still goes on. While Amway defenders will deny it, I see no reason why any of this would have changed over the years since Amway has made no significant changes to stop abusive uplines. If Amway did make any changes, they are not immediately apparent and the continuous string of comments and testimonies do not confirm that any clean up has been done. I recently sent some information to Amway about some unethical behavior by an IBO. Not only did they not publish my concern on their now defunct "Answers" blog, they also did not respond and apparently did nothing to the unethical IBO. So much for not turning a blind eye.
For active IBOs or prospects, these are the realities that may be attached with the Amway opportunity. Much of it is because of motivational groups such as WWDB or BWW, but if you are seeing these traits in your group, ask the tough questions. If you happen to decide that the Amway opportunity is not for you, take heart! There are other ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams and there are moe efficent ways out there. Sometimes, quitting something that isn't working is a wise business decisions and sometimes you can lose more by not quitting. Good luck in whatever you decide.
But what is the reality? It's working hard only to drift between 100 and 500 PV. It's finally sponsoring a new IBO only to have a downline quit. It's talking to people about Amway and getting laughed at or getting rejected. It's your upline or sponsor pushing you to do more. Possibly your upline is one who questions your manhood if you aren't working hard enough. It's your upline or sponsor reminding you that a winner doesn't miss functions, especially the major ones. It's staying up late for team meetings or nite owls when you need a good nite's rest to do your job the next day. It's driving the miles to show a plan, only to have your prospect not show up. It's having to be deceptive about what you are doing. It's skipping functions with family and friends so you can be core to the business.
As IBOs, do you see any of this? I saw much of this during my involvement. While I have not been an IBO in some years now, I still see many testimonies and comments by more current and even some active IBOs to indicate that a lot of this still goes on. While Amway defenders will deny it, I see no reason why any of this would have changed over the years since Amway has made no significant changes to stop abusive uplines. If Amway did make any changes, they are not immediately apparent and the continuous string of comments and testimonies do not confirm that any clean up has been done. I recently sent some information to Amway about some unethical behavior by an IBO. Not only did they not publish my concern on their now defunct "Answers" blog, they also did not respond and apparently did nothing to the unethical IBO. So much for not turning a blind eye.
For active IBOs or prospects, these are the realities that may be attached with the Amway opportunity. Much of it is because of motivational groups such as WWDB or BWW, but if you are seeing these traits in your group, ask the tough questions. If you happen to decide that the Amway opportunity is not for you, take heart! There are other ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams and there are moe efficent ways out there. Sometimes, quitting something that isn't working is a wise business decisions and sometimes you can lose more by not quitting. Good luck in whatever you decide.
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