Wednesday, March 30, 2011

Amway and Spring Leadership Functions

I read about this topic on another blog and was inspired to write about my experience with Spring Leadership. I attended a leadership function as an IBO and I remember it quite well even though I've been removed from Amway for some time now. The leadership function was where the upline diamond would have all of his new leaders (platinums and up) speak. Kinda makes me wonder how this function is going these days when it sure doesn't seem like a lot of new leaders are emerging, at least in my old group.

These new leaders would talk about their trials and how they stuck to the system and now they have arrived. Some of them spoke about how they were able to retire their wives who now stay at home to care for their children. A noble task indeed. I had thought this was the great part about the business. It might interest my readers to know that not a single one of those leadership speakers from my IBO days are at the platinum level and in fact, all but one or two of these nice folks are even in the business. My former sponsor was a platinum and he is one of the few holdovers from the old days, but he is no longer at the platinum level. Last I heard, he was somewhere around 2500 PV, which means he is likely operating at a loss if he is still dedicated to "core".

Spring leadership is the beginning of a run of functions that can really bankrupt IBOs. I'm from Hawaii and leadership was held in March, followed by family reunion (summer conference) in July and Free Enterprise Day (FED) in October. All of these functions are held during peak travel times, thus IBOs who need to fly to functions pay a premium price to travel. Sadly, there was no visible significant growth in the groups after these functions. Looking back, the major functions were just quarterly paychecks for the upline diamonds. If you do the math, you can easily discern that these diamonds may have made millions for a weekend of speaking and showing off their "diamond lifestyles".

I hope this information can help a prospect or an IBO to understand how some of these things work and allow for informed decisions to be made about joining Amway or for deciding whether or not to attend that next function. IBOs need to honestly assess their risk versus reward in making these decisions.


Anonymous said...

Every time of year the majors come up, I am so happy to be out. The relief is indescribable.

I love being at home making a simple supper and sitting on the back porch relaxing, knowing thousands of poor ibos are sitting, clapping, cheering, eating crappy food and yelling 'fired up' all day long. Just thinking of the money I did not spend on yet another major makes me smile.

Anonymous said...

I imagine the turn out for these events is decreasing each year. I have been to quite a few and they never helped my business because the purpose of these over priced events is to provide you with a constant stream of brain washing and most importantly put money in the pockets of the big pin leaders who I assure you, DO NOT speak at these events out of the goodness of their heart. Our upline shunned us when we missed one, said we should sell our TV, our car... do what ever it took to be there, like you would hear some revolutionary way to grow your business, bullshit. The FACT is that it was always the same canned crap over and over again.
The money that we spent attending these events could have been spent taking our kids to Disney World many times over.

***Former WWDB Lemming***

Anonymous said...

Toward the end our accountant began to laser focus on whether or not the majors (or any function for that matter) could really be a write-off. He wanted proof that we were learning how to sell.

We weren't learnng anything.

On Sunday afternoons when the diamond wives would get on stage to show us how to do an Artstry clinic, I about died from embarrassment.

I've sold MK cosmetics for years and done many classes and facials and it is not at all like they show on stage. They've never done it.

Most diamonds have neve done what they shove down your throats.

Anonymous said...

With the advent of camera phones, wonder why we don't see more of these functions on u-tube.

Lucifer said...

I love attending these functions.

Anonymous said...

I posted this on Anna's blog.
I wish the Ambots would realize that events like this and all the "motivational" tools are the main source of income for the big pins that they look up to. The prices they charge for these events is criminal especially when you consider the fact that most IBOs will need to travel great distances to attend and pay for accommodations. WWDB Spring Leadership is $125 Presale or $130 at the door.
To get a better picture of how profitable these events are for the Big Wigs, here's a quick run down of the WWDB's total estimated costs to pull off Spring Leadership in Spokane.

Total approximate cost to rent Spokane Arena + AV Equipment and lighting for 2 days $20,000.

If they filled the place to 14,000 total capacity x $125 per IBO = $1,750,000 in ticket revenue.

= $1,730,000 Profit from Ticket Sales.

You can check out the rental costs for Spokane Arena here.

There are a total of 3 WWDB Leaderships in April, Spokane, Vegas and Minneapolis, no doubt great income for the Puryears, Shores and Duncans and any of their minions they care to throw a few scraps to.

***Former WWDB Lemming***

Anonymous said...

lucifer, you're an idiot.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the profits made on a WWDB SL function in Spokane; First, you're a little light on cost of the arena and AV.... its more like $50 000 and that is with referencing the site you stated. Who cares 50 000 or 20 000, not a big difference either way.

There is not 14 000 people in the even, there is more like 10 000. Now you must take into consideration that guests for this event are free. IBOs who signed up after a certain point in feb were also free, now that leaves at least 3000 people in the arena who did not pay to attend the function.... Strange how this "rip off, scam, lying, cheating" company allows people in for free. Maybe its because they understand the people just getting started can't afford it and give them a break.

So, that leaves approximately 7000 paying IBOs at the event. 7000 x 125 = $875 000 minus the $50 000 for renting the arena = $825 000.

Guess what, the people that speak on the stage.... they don't pay to fly there, they don't pay for their meal or pay for their hotels. Everything is taken care of because they are speaking at the function. I would say there are about 50 different speakers (almost all couples so double airfare) at an average expense of $2500 per speaker = $125 000 which leaves a remaining $700 000 Maximum and its probably less than that.

So does WWDB profit from these events? Of course they do.... I want one person to give me a fair reason why they shouldn't profit off these events. Just give me one good educated reason....

Its like someone going to a concert and paying $250 for a 4 hours show to see some guy they idolize because they can't amount to anything real in their own life. They make that person millions just for a few hours and you don't hear any of you mind numb naggers ranting about that, do you? Its a personal choice.... some people waste money on hockey, basketball and football games and go and idolize people they can never be. While making them millions!

Now you tell me which one is more stupid.... I'm waiting.......

Joecool said...

The issue is no whether they deserve to profit or not. The WWDB leaders tell people that these functions are the key to success in Amway. How many people actually succeed in Amway because they attend one of these functions? There is no documented evidence that the functions do anything other than create profits for WWDB.

Anonymous said...


I understand where you are coming from, but there is no documented evidence that going to school and getting a degree will set you up for a profitable and successful life, yet millions of people do it religiously, just to come out of school in massive debt and decide they don't want to work in the field they studied.

Lets be honest here, if you just work hard at it you will be profitable. You guys all stand on the fact that this is not a profitable business well if any of you have ever ran a traditional business, you would know that at start up you don't pay yourself a cent for at least 1 year but usually 2. Lets call a spade a spade.... Is Amway for everyone? Of course not because most people are lazy and choose not to over come the things that will hold them back in this business.

Are functions like Spring Leadership necessary for all IBOs I don't think so, but for 95% of them it is, because most people aren't self motivated and can't keep there eye on the price, most people need to be constantly reminded why they are doing what they are doing.

I will concede that part of the events are a little strange and do seem some what brain washy but I can see past that and I know why they do that. Lets face it, most people who are IBOs will never make it and the reason is them alone. You can't blame anyone else for their failure in this business. Do you think the Diamonds make more money holding these functions and having thousands of people fail and wash out every year or would they make more money if they all succeeded and became diamonds as well.... They truly do want you to succeed regardless why they want you to, the fact is they will all make waaaay more money if we all succeed then if we all fail and just blame the system, rather than accepting responsibility.

The human race is so funny, if we can blame someone else for our failures we do, yet we teach our children to accept responsibility. Go to Amway and sign up as an IBO don't get involved in a WWDB or any other forms of tools and succeed on your own. The fact is 95% of people that try it that way will fail, because they aren't self motivated and won't even know where to begin.... then who would they blame??

-= B =-

Joecool said...

Going to college is no guarantee of success, but it is documented that college grads fare much better than non college grads. Amway and the systems have no unbiased documented evidence that the systems do anything but drain money from the pockets of believing downlines.

There is no correlation between hard work and Amway success. I know many people, including myself who worked very hard at Amway and didn't make money.

And I'm not blaming anyone. I blog so people can benefit from my experiences and not end up in the same situation I was in.

Anonymous said...

I understand why you do what you do and from what I can tell you're one of the most honest, educated and mature "amway fighters" I've come across and I do respect your opinion as you are entitled to it.

I ask though, how do you explain the success of some and not others? I truly believe if you structure your business correctly and give it the right support you will succeed. I agree effort does not always mean everything... effort with out knowledge will take you no where. Like the old expression says, "work smarter, not harder" I am a strong believer in that.

I have no real success yet in the Amway business and am fairly new to it, although I personally know people who are successful in it. I also, am very successful in my own life through my own personal finance business. Upon seeing this opportunity, doing some massive research and simple math... believe in the product and my upline, I feel this is a profitable business.

That being said, I also believe all these things need to be in place to be successful. If you failed or anyone else has failed, I don't believe it is the business it self.... I feel all the factors were not in place, but then again.... this is just my opinion.

-= B =-

Joecool said...

I agree that some people "succeed". But to what degree? It can be verified that only a small fraction of 1% ever make any significant money in Amway, and out of those who "succeed", we know that most cannot sustain their businesses.

The products are not priced competetively in relation to big retailers. The system of standing orders and functions mainly drains resources from downline and is the main reason for IBO losses.

Last, how do you know your diamonds are successful? Because they show you pictures of mansions? Has a diamond ever revealed their financials? Out of the diamonds who have revealed their financials, it wasn't pretty. They were living in debt, only portraying an illusion of wealth.

All due respect, you are new and haven't seen enough to know what the real deal is.

Anonymous said...

I actually don't know any diamonds, I only know Emeralds, Sapphires and Rubies and yes I've seen their finances and I've seen the bonus checks from Amway to the tune of $75 000 and I know they exist at that level.

The fact is, I am surrounded by many multi-millionaires every single day in my business but the average man or women at my level in my personal business is making of $300 000 a year (remember this is not Amway) and guess what, they are all in debt out there ass some of the richest people I know are the poorest. Just because a diamond is living in debt doesn't mean they don't make a lot of money, that is simply a personal choice. Its very easy to make $800 000 a year and be in debt.

The information you speak of does intrigue me because I like to see everything from all angles and I'm not close minded. I would be interested to know more about what you know and your experiences. I will send you an email and look forward to hearing from you.

-= B =-

Joecool said...

My point is that many people who appear to be rich from Amway - are not. They just appear to be rich. Even if you make $200,000 from Amway as a diamond, you aren't making much after taxes and business expenses. Flying around the country to attend functions can get expensive.

I look forward to your email. My access may be restricted until I return from Japan however.

S.A. said...

To Anon I'm a former platinum. I qualified for 3 years this was 2nd time around. Like you defending the cause. Bottom line functions did nothing but hype. The reason I reached that level is because I STP plan an average of 5 times a week convinced to buy product that's it. I got tired of deppending on other people for my success. Now back in real estate making about 10-20k a month no meetings. Yes taking time but again depending on own ability not helping people build their dreams. However helping them out a nite mare in todays RE market.

Anonymous said...

I'm from Hawaii too, I went to all these functions and bought the farm, I did everything they thought qualified platinum twice and probably personally sponsored 70 people and was almost 10 deep in 2 legs. It still fell apart. 15 yrs. I feel so free now, this must be the freedom they kept preaching about.

Anonymous said...

Right on! It is always what you have in you as a person that will make you succeed in ANY business!

Anonymous said...

Right on! EXCEPT it doesn't happen in AMWAY!!!

A Polyniak said...

Something to keep in mind if you are a prospect or new IBO reading this is that the Amway business is what you make it. You are in control of your own success in this business. If you decide that you are going to be lazy and not go to events, go prospecting, or make a conscious effort to grow and to try, then you will not be successful. The people that don't make it in this business and quit, didn't try hard enough. It is not a "get-rich-quick" business, it takes hard work and willingness to learn. Just because you have a gym membership doesn't mean you are automatically going to lose weight, you have to work towards that. The same goes for Amway, just because you are an IBO doesn't mean you are automatically going to become a have to work. I have been an IBO for almost a year and because I have worked hard and wanted all of my dreams to come true, I have been successful.

Joecool said...

Not true. You have no control. Your upline can screw you over if they want.

junior bravo said...

I like u man..everything ur saying is true..yea the speakers make some money ..they kinda need to cuz were I come from conventions from amway the speakers come from otther organizations so we pay them to come speak to uss..n its so true how at least here in amway were paying 125 for something that could help us in the future. .but will paying 1000 dollars for a front role seat in a basketball game help me in the future??? Yea maybe if u want to become a basketball player but most ppl just go to have fun while making the players millions ...did u mo most nba players make a minimum of 10 million a year while I pay to watch them play basketball. ...thats why I hate sports. .atleast in amway im learning to become a better ppl person good post man I hope ur amway business grows peace.

junior bravo said...

Great post man ..I love when people talk good about amway n not say its a cult n stuff. ..first of all u dont NEED to go to the conventions ..its nice going though u learn new things. ..u can still succeed in amway without going to the seminars or buying books n cds if u strong minded n motivated u can crreate a great busniess .Second u dont really loose money at first ..ur basically buying everyday things that a human needs .soap..shampoo .detergent. .vitamins. .energy drinks ooh n dem good meal bars n meal replacements(the chocolate one is so gooooood)ur buying things dat u would buy in Walmart n stuff yea they migth be a little more pricy but there great quality in my opinion ....I dont like talking bad about other mlms but like organo gold?? U dont need coffee n tea for everyday life (to me any sort of coffee is bad if tooken in excess ) at least in amway u can buy everyday products. ..great post ..I hope ur amway business work s great for u

Unknown said...

Please do tell, how your upline can screw you? Dude its up to you to make money! Period. Amway has BWW (Brit World Wide) a system in place to guide you on how to move up the ladder in your business. If you follow it like a bible, you're results will be great. If you choose to be a lazy F@$%, then please work for a company all your life from 9 - 5 and stop scolding a company! Amway is providing products for you to sell, BWW has a system in place to help you make more money in MLM, NOW it is up to you to put both things into perspective and make the money. I am a new IBO, but I've received my first check of $600 (I've only spent $50 to buy some house hold products), and motivated to do more! Doing this part time as I am "employed" full time. My upline is Founders Emerald and she's going to be Diamond, maybe next year. But I know her personally and TRUST me, she's worked hard to be where she is now, and she is definitely making money! Before you criticize; analyze, think, and evaluate the situation. In this world nothing comes easy, everything requires hard work and dedication. Just ask yourself, why did you fail? What were you not doing? And maybe you will realize that this business was meant for people who are not lazy, and just want to do something with their live's!

Joecool said...

If you have a dispute with your upline, all they need to do is de-edify you and take your downline.

I've seen it happen and there have been lawsuits in the past over these issues.

If everyone could make money in Amway with hard work, I would have no problem with it. But that's not the case is it?