This was posted by a former IBO in Hawaii:
"I personally had experience with Quixtar. It is a "tool based business'. Did I buy their books and tapes (yes...back then it was cassette tapes)? Yeah, i did.
I realized there was a problem when things started getting "shady". My gf was a downline of mine. My upline said that buying tools will help build my business. I agree that some of the information they provided could be legit and work for some people. The problem was that I was purchasing tools on a weekly basis, but my gf was not. My upline refused to "teach" me and give me any support unless my gf was buying the tools too!
Are you serious? My gf, who lived in the same house as me, had to buy tapes and books when I was already buying tapes and books?
I got out and soon afterwards, never really heard much about Quixtar or Amway again."
Joecool asked who the upline diamond was and the response:
I believe Matt was the Upline Diamond. The name sounds familiar. He's short? I think he used to be the GM of T&C or something like that.
Are you considering the business?
I wont deny that some people can make money....its just the lies I was told before and while I was in it that made me quit. I hardly even hear about them anymore....or any other MLM for that matter.
18 comments:
Everybody mentions buying this that and the other thing.... Im a new ibo and i have not bought a single piece of training equipment. Ive listened to hours of training audio at no price out of my pocket. I did buy my business licensee through Amway, and a starter pack of my choice which was filled with items my fiancee and i are still using a month later.
Yes, your sponsor will loan you tools when you are new. Once you sponsor someone, you will be expected to buy your own plus buying tools for prospects and your downline as well.
Hey Joecool. Is this necesarily a bad thing? I could understand the benefit of buying tools to invest in prospects. In a way it's like you're investing in your own business. Granted I have not bought any yet but that b/c I am not profitable enough and my Emerald that is helping me hasn't forced it down my throat either. I've been doing it for 9 months now and just went to my first convention without any pressure from my Emerald to do so. He let me work at my own pace. Am I missing something? I'm not trying to be a supporter or hater I just don't understand why people would do the wrong thing with Amway? I'm not teaching my downline to buy from themselves just to make PV. I want them to try things on their own, find what they like at their own pace, and whatever they like personally they recommend to family and have them be customers, build a profitable base, and then worry about sponsoring.
The purchase of tools nearly assures you of losing money. Amway's own information reveals that it's not a good opportunity. $115 a month average income for IBOs and one half of one percent of IBOs reach gold/platinum where you might earn $100o a month gross income.
Have you gotten customers outside of family and friends and have you make a profit? If your answer is yes, factor in the cost of tools and then see where you will be at.
I haven't bought any tools yet. I rarely spend any money on anything. My business is built on my customer base of some family members and a few customers that work with my fiance's mother. They are beauty pageant contestants who love Artistry so much after I did a spa party for them they buy things from me all the time. I only spend money on bulk orders for customers and pass the savings on shipping to them. I have earned between $150-$200 a month on my own. It took me 6 months to get my customer base but now I'm constantly doing 150 PV a month customer and whenever I need something I'd buy it. I am still in the black 9 months later. I guess it's really on each person to make smart financial decisions. I didn't think it was financially sound for me to buy tools yet so I havent' and my upline hasn't pressured me to do so. Once I can get 300 PV a month from customer orders I'll buy some to give to my downline.
I've offered my assistance to do one spa party for my new IBO's (I have 6 of them) using my demo kits so they dont have to pay for anything and I can get them started and grow a customer base for them. They can then invest in themselves and get more customer base.
In turn as they make money I'll make money.
I haven't been taught to buy things for the sake of buying it simply b/c my upline stressed the fact to be in Amway is to make money and not lose it so buying stuff I dont need it a detriment to myself. So in turn I teach my downline and let them work at their own pace.
The tools are a good thing for those that need the motivation but I wouldn't force it on anyone. My upline offers the suggestion and leaves it at that. I intend on doing the same.
Jose from NY
On a side note I was told from the first orientation that it isn't a get rich scheme, it does require work 5 days a week, for a couple of hours a day, and I was told from day 1 it was Amway. This business does separate those that want and those that are willing to get it. I was raised to be ethical and my upline is a church goer whose wife works for the church. So I guess it's all in who you meet. I met my emerald b/c I bought my ring from him and it was appraised more than I paid for it. So all in all I could see why Amway can be considered a scam but I think transparency would cure all that.
Jose in NY
Let me ask you, Anon at 11:40 et al: Do you think that there just might be something amiss with the substance and reputation of a "business" that comes with the disclaimer "it isn't a get rich quick scheme, it does require work 5 days a week" (oh, but only 2 hours a day!) LOL. Talk about answering questions no one asked...
I do resent people like you who jump at the chance to put down the “dream stealers” who smugly parrot cheesy lines purloined from a "success" book or CD, such as: "This business does separate those that want and those that are willing to get it". Mr. Anon: Some of us DID want. It was when we found out what "it" actually was, that we beat a hasty retreat - some of us after wasting many years and huge sums of money in a quixotic attempt to prove we were one of those “willing to get it. The ugly fact is that “the business” is designed to sucker in people with trusting souls, because those trusting folk are the fodder for the sociopaths who are “willing to get it” – that is, willing to lie, cheat, and steal.
That's great that you were "raised to be ethical" (I’m sure that’s true and that your intentions are noble - but aren’t most thieves, crooks, and liars “raised to be ethical?), and that your upline is a "church goer" (as though that covers all sins). In retrospect, I happen to think that pretty much everything on my former upline's "reading list" was unbiblical, worldly, and generally opposed to the true things of God, although it was claimed that the "success principles" advocated were part of "God's will".
So what do you think about those apples?
---Daniel (formerly of WWDB)
Hi Daniel.
I really didn't expect to get this sort of reception. I guess I'm not a negative person like most people are. When they approached me saying it wasn't a get rich quick scheme I only took it one way. Most people in this country, especially in NY where I live, everyone wants money yesterday yet nobody is willing to put in the time. My mother has her own home based invitation business and it took her 3 years of working hard, busting her butt, driving to different paper conventions, driving to NJ, etc just to get her business off the ground and turn a profit. However, her business wasn't a get rich scheme either and she knew that going in. However, most people, including my own family, didn't see why it was worth the effort b/c it took too long. So when my upline told me this it was to set expectations early on.
Some people just don't have that frame of mind and I feel you are one of those people. Granted I'm not saying it's right when some Amway uplines don't disclose things, but I don't think you have a good frame of mind when it comes to setting expectations.
I personally haven't worked 5 days a week since I started 9 months ago. I probably work 2 days a week (I don't go to every function so I guess that's a big part of why I have free time) and those days I work it's maybe 2-3 a day. Yet I am able to be profitable. I make my own calls about when to attend functions and when not to. My upline hasn't turned his back and tells me these things are optional.
I can tell you obviously got burnt for whatever reason. I can only say I feel bad for those that got burnt but that's partially your own fault. Had you used some sort of intelligence you'd realize that the meetings are optional, the books/cds are optional, the conventions are optional. If you thought something was wrong with the business it shouldn't have taken years b/c the business is consistent. They preach the same things week in and week out.
To me this sounds like a personal vendetta. I am in no way trying to be an apologist. I was only giving my personal experiences based on my upline, myself, and my fiance. None of us are stupid and my natural skepticism has helped me learn what to be worried about and what not to. I also don't have unrealistic expectations that getting rich will happen within months and it takes time.
Granted it helps that I learned the products first and replaced what I had in my house before I contacted people about the business. It also helps that my upline told me not to spend money in the beginning b/c the point of Amway is to make money, not lose it.
Sorry you got burnt and sorry you had the reaction you did. It screams you getting burnt and taking out your anger and hatred on me and/or Amway when all I was doing was giving an insight into my life.
Joecool, "What do you mean?" You can't become rich and help others become wealthy by teaching them to buy overpriced goods like toilet paper or laundry detergent from Amway? I've been lied to and nearly hoodwinked!
You've poured cold water on my dream!
How could I have been so badly mislead by the relative who showed me the plan? Oh, that's right, I forgot, I didn't join, and my potential upline recruiter/relative hasn't talked to me since. (A good thing!)
I guess you can't win the power ball lottery unless you play, but the gal down at the carry out wasn't mad at me for not buying a ticket and still talks to me. Oh well. You just have to 'believe'to become that potential winner in the Amway swindle! I do like my chances of winning the lottery better and I rarely ever play that stacked game of greed either, although I have a better chance statistically of actually winning there than in the Amway Global Scam.
Jose in NY,
I would like to congratulate you for how you're handling people like Joecool, Daniel and others to come.
I wish you all the best and remember the results you're getting, the work you're putting in and the coaching you're getting from your mentor and the team.
Are Joecool and Daniel your mentors? Have they helped you get started? Have they provided you with support along the way? No, they haven't. They're here to only criticize, find fault and plant doubts in people's minds about Amway, a business that has operated since 1959 and is accredited with the Better Business Bureau since 1979.
I command your stand but my sincere advice to you is to stop arguing with these people. You'll waste your time and energy with them. They don't get it. They choose to not get it.
I recently met a street Bible preacher guy who claims to be a born again Christian and he told me that the business won't work because it's just hype and a tool of the greedy to suck you in and I've asked him why he thinks that way. His argument was very clever; he told me that I love money more than God! Listen to that argument, how subtle and deceitful! To which I asked him why he keeps on going to work if not for the money; he told me it's because he needs money to pay for things. His second statement was even worse; he told me that this business won't work because God did not call me to do it! I asked him how he knows that and he told me that he just knows it. So, I focused on him next. I asked him if he finds life hard as a single guy. He said 'YES'. He also told me that before he got saved by Jesus, he wanted to be a human resources recruiter. To which I asked him if that's what he does today. His answer was 'YES'. Next, I asked him if that's what God called him to do. His answer was 'NO'. My last question to him was that if he's truly saved by Jesus why he keeps on being a human resources recruiter. His answer was 'I DON'T KNOW'
This my friend is a lesson for you and for everyone else. Don't listen to broke people; don't listen to people who may be nice but are mentally unstable. Don't listen to people who bring nothing to the table but expect you to bring something. Stay away from those who give reasons why you can't have something you want because they themselves don't have it. Especially stay away from religious preachers who come your way with Biblical statements and apply them in a way to get you to doubt who you are and what it is you're trying to get done. They've tried to trick me in the past but I stood firm in my faith and overcame them much to their disappointment.
Stay firm, associate with those who will help you to accomplish your goals and dreams in this business and overcome the people who don't like what we do much to their disappointment!
To your success! God be with you!
Really, Amway has been accredited since 1979? I suppose you have a link to show that this is true? *crickets chirping*
Don't listen to broke people? LOL I'm laughing my ass off. Is Greg Duncan broke because he filed bankruptcy? Is David Shores broke because his house got foreclosed? Bwahahaha.
The Bible says Satan is the master of deceit and lies. "Quixtar isn't Amway" "Nobody profits from tools" 'Perfect water makes you flexible" All lies told by IBOs and diamonds. Their words not mine.
By the way Jose, the anonymous who wrote this post is the one who threatened my life in case you were fooled by thinking he might actually have character. This anon is from Scarbourough is Canada.
Joecool asks 'Really, Amway has been accredited since 1979? I suppose you have a link to show that this is true? *crickets chirping*'
Two things;
Yes, I do and here it is
http://www.bbb.org/western-michigan/business-reviews/multi-level-selling/amway-corporation-in-ada-mi-15000624
And voila, under the heading 'BBB Accreditation' it clearly says that Amway is 'A BBB Accredited Business since 07/01/1979'
Last, your question clearly describes you as a notoriously LAZY person who's unable to do even the minimum required work to get somewhere in life. And you expected to become a Diamond because Amway promised you a Diamond done deal. You apparently missed out on that Amway requires work, effort and discipline to get to the Diamond level. It didn't sit well with you and you decided to quit, criticize, bash and plant doubts in other people's minds about Amway. Clearly, you have zero credibility! I won't waste my time with you any further!
Jose in NY, don't even bother to reply to these guys. Joecool didn't even touch the BBB page to find out about Amway's accreditation. He asked me to do that for him instead! I did it and now he's without excuse! I'm done here! Again, congrats on how you've handled them!
Anon, you made the claim about the BBB accreditation. At least you had a link.
So now, what does that do for IBOs who are independent business owners?
Did you mention that the FTC fined Amway in 1986 for false income claims?
that's it, cool joe. keep the facts comin'!
**proud Amway hater**
Dear Jose from NY (not actually "Anon"):
You know nothing about either my “frame of mind” or my background in Amway (or otherwise), much less that of either people in NY or “most people in this country” – that’s just a conceit fabricated by you in a false reality where being “positive” is god. Which in turn gives you - a “positive” person - permission to put on airs of superiority over a “negative” person like me.
I’m content to be a negative thinker, Jose – in fact, one of the greatest negative thinkers in history was the prophet Jeremiah: “The heart is deceitful, and desperately wicked – who can know it?” (Jer. 17:9). Check your own heart, Jose, and beware.
--Daniel
The truth is not negativity, its called the truth, why don't Amway supporters understand this??
Oh yea I forgot the truth is negative to Amway supporters because facts and the truth speak louder then words!
We can get into all this Philosophical and Religious crap with Amway, but the truth of the matter is Amway is the worst opportunity and any MLM for that matter!
I guarantee if you are in Amway and put that effort for selling on Amazon or Ebay you are gonna make way more money. There are ways to make money even besides Amazon or Ebay.
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