Friday, May 3, 2013

The Amway Business At 4000 PV

Joecool wanted to give people a glimpse into what it was like at the 4000 PV level and what my experience was. Although Amway and WWDB defenders will claim this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't happen anymore, I have good reasons to believe that very little has changed in WWDB since I was an IBO. The only major difference was that we did call in and product pick up back then. Apparently, some WWDB leaders still talk about buying homes in cash and teaching the same old stuff.

How many hours per week did I work? I would say up to 30 hours a week was spent on business related issues. Granted, product pick up consumed an entire afternoon and evening, generally on Thursdays. I would have to call in my order to the platinum and then pick up the stuff on Thursday afternoon. Then I had to rush home and distribute the stuff to my downline. My upline platinum was not good at filling orders so it was a real pain. I'd say pick up and associated paperwork costed me maybe 8 hours a week. One good benefit today is that Amway issues the bonuses. In the old days, you as an upline had to do so. (This is an area where I agree that Amway made good progress) I did hear though, that WWDB still has call in and pick up for standing orders and such. If this is true, then they undid the progress that Amway had made. Also, as a up and coming leader, my platinum expected me to absorb some of the cost of returned tools, such as absorbing losses if someone on standing order quit. (Brad Duncan cut a true north tape at the time that basically said IBOs absorb the cost of standing orders for downlines who quit)

As a 4000 pin, I had to show the plan or attend plans for my frontline, if the platinum was showing the plan. I'd say 4 nights per week we showed the plan for a downline or a downline in depth. Of course after the plan, we might "hang out" with downline and have some night owl teaching. Some people call this association or whatever. Depending on the length of the drive, this might take 3-4 hours 4 nights per week. Sometimes it was shorter when you had no shows.

We counseled with downline and upline. I spent some individual time with my upline and also with downline who wanted one on one time to get ideas on how to improve their Amway business. We looked over their group parameters and of course, tools flow. There was a WWDB counseling sheet for this purpose. Looking back, I"m not sure what this really accomplished except for the big pins to know which leaders are selling the most tools.

Then we had open meetings and functions. One local function each month and generally one or two open meetings where a diamond or emerald would show the plan. Of course, my sponsor (platinum) did not feel right unless he augmented our function with his own night owl meetings. We also had three long distance functions on the mainland. These functions were (at the time) called Leadership, Family Reunion and Free Enterprise day. Being from Hawaii, these functions costed me, as a single, at least $1,000 or more for each trip because it was airfare during peak travel times, hotel, rental cars and the function ticket. I hate to think what couples paid.

Because of my status as up and coming leader, I had the privilege of attending special meetings where our diamond would teach or show house plans. I even had the honor or driving the diamond to a house plan. Damn, how can anyone live without such an honor?

For my troubles, I had a business at 4000 PV, with eagle parameters. I was considered a "mover and shaker". Lots of people knew me and my sponsor wanted so badly to break a downline platinum. He sat down with me one afternoon and told me I could really push to platinum and ruby easily if I would only ditch my girlfriend (fiancee' at the time). He told me that he would ditch his wife if the upline diamond told him to do so. He said a single (ruby or higher) could easily attract a lot of eligible women. It was after that meeting when I decided to quit.

I had reached 4000 PV. I was making very little or losing some money because of the tools and functions. I did not see prospects of making money even at platinum and now my upline wanted control of my life. I told my group the truth and all of them quit except 1 or 2 of them who were brainwashed enough to stay involved. That was my story and I have no regrets about my decision to quit. I truly hope this story helps a prospect or a current IBO.

24 comments:

First Man said...

Joecool, sounds like you did make one good choice by quitting when your upline had a poor choice of words - that is unacceptable. I know you are a better man today for making that choice. Right?
Here's the thing - great companies evolve. If you think that Amway still operates the same as it did 10 years ago, you are wrong. If you think Amway still operates the same as it did 3 years ago, you are wrong. Were you brainwashed into thinking that you were part of the ONLY organization using Amway as a supplier? Did you know there used to be 33 organizations - now 32 (1 shut down for building a pyramid)? Do you know that there are some organizations who don't make their money from learning materials? My parents were in the business years ago and they said they paid 12-20$ for a single CD. There has to come a point where you know you are getting ripped off - if not, then you are brainwashed. A true mentor does not 'teach' and does not speak unless he/she is asked a question. Mentorship is something seeked out by an individual by asking questions and wanting to know more. There is enough 'teaching' and bossing around in our daily lives as is, the last thing we want is another person 'telling' us what to do. If you don't know the difference between mentoring and teaching, it would be a great place to start as far as my organization is concerned. I'd love to talk more with you and find out more of the old Amway so I can relate to older generations. Thank you

Month of April Brand New 1000's

Joecool said...

First Man, I know Amway changed. But if you read my article again, I am saying not much has changed in WWDB. And I do have evidence.

Anonymous said...

Joecool, trust me. You are TOTALLY RIGHT in saying "not much has changed in WWDB". I'm SO GLAD to not be a part of this anymore, yet spouse/close friends are still involved, and it's totally clear that nothing at all has 'changed' over the years. Same old same old. Keep up the good work. You really are doing a great service to many people. Thank you!!

Joecool said...

Anonymous, you are welcome. At times I was tempted to quit blogging but I realized I can provide information for those who seek it and allow people to comment on WWDB and any unethical practices that still go on today.

Anonymous said...

Oh, don't stop blogging. WWDB is--for too many people--a "bad addiction" where these people never stop chasing the high, spending their life savings, having zero to show for it, and continue to defend WWDB to the death...just the way a drugee defends his drug to the death.

WWDB just messes with people's minds TOO MUCH...and there really needs to be the 'opposing voice', so please Joe, never stop blogging. You REALLY "help" people.

Joecool said...

Thanks for the kind comments. Some day, I will stop blogging but I won't remove my blog from the net. It will remain for information seekers. For now I update it regularly to keep it relevant. My WWDB leaders outright lied to us about not making a cent from selling us cd's and functions and then when the lies were exposed, they got swept under the rug and many of these same leaders are still profiting by deceiving their downline. These leaders have never been held accountable. It is for that reason I started blogging. If people know the truth and still join, then at least I've done my part. I know many people have thanked me for sharing my experiences which was a help for them.

Anonymous said...

I think bottom line is this model is about recruiting people who are prepared to autoconsume products and buy tools which generates income upline. So if you want it you have to accept to pay while you find a group prepared to do the same for you. Its not presented like this but thats how it is. Would be alot easier if everyone stayed at home and jus sent a check monthly. But then you would not have the smoke and mirrors facilitated by the products, your own business etc.

Anonymous said...

i lost someone i love to amway afew months ago, and reading your blog has been 'therapeutic' and helpful to me to some degree. so yes, thank you for your updates :)

Anonymous said...

They talk accountability all the time...

They practice accountability SOME of the time....when it works to their advantage.

And for all their accountability talk, certain 'truths' about the business are always lied about, and so all accountability is lost.

But they STILL present themeselves as the gold standard of accountailbity.

When you finally quit this business and take a year to come clean, it's as if you've been given a whole new life. REAL freedom!

Anonymous said...

I looked up Wwdb on amway wiki. Seems to me this group produced in the usa about average 2 diamonds a year over the last 30 years. Thats not great. And not many in the last 10 years. I assume the older diamonds are out of qualification. Presumably for the Puryears the korea downline with 400 diamonds is a big revenue stream.

Anonymous said...

I love the fact... your the anonymouse IP poster... is the same as yours...Just saying.

Anonymous said...

First Man,

So the takeaway from your post is this, I suppose: You, the inestimable "First Man", are not "brainwashed", here in the supercharged year of 2013 when the "System" has been ultraperfected. But Joe Cool and I were "brainwashed" back in the '90s when we were believers, naively accepting certain things we were told. Oh, but YOU, you're different. Is that about right, First Man?

--Daniel

Anonymous said...

Its interesting that the BOV (legal document) provided at board plans and 2nd looks shows Eagle parameters as 6 personal width legs with 150 PV first circle each (100 personal use and 50 customer as you know). As such an Eagle is stated as 1050 PV with the IBO's first circle and 6 frontline legs.
1050 PV over 6 legs in width is considered eagle. My friend, if you were running 4000 PV down 6 legs, over 4 times an eagle paramter(PV wise anyhow) you shouldn't have been making that much to begin with. Your width was crap. Have that spread over 8 - 12 legs, more legs doing less work means higher differential = higher performance bonus. Less legs doing more work = they should be getting paid for their performance. Almost any Dave Severn talk you'll hear "Whats 19 bonus cheques? - Not twenty!" - I hear width taught all the time. As we're growing I can see why.

Shoddy width means your differential will get eaten up by your frontline IBO's who are earning it. If you had a Double Eagle parameter, 4000 would have been nice for sure. With only 6 frontline legs - yeah I can see how your bonus cheque may not have been what you would have hoped at that level.

Joecool said...

I had 12 frontline legs

Anonymous said...

Ah, so you were twelve wide, but not double eagle parameters then. Its interesting you were having a hard time at 4000 yet I've seen opposite blogs of people who have 5x increase in their performance bonus from just going from 3% performance to 9% with a small difference in personal use/customer volume. If their increase in the bonus is 5x from just a 3% to a 9% - I have a hard time seeing how 4000 didn't do well for you.
Not that it matters, really - anyone could be lying online. *shrug*

Joecool said...

I made good money but my net was zero. Our upline wanted us to reinvest all profits into tools.

Anonymous said...

Great. Let's see your income tax returns. Our upline would always flash checks at us, but never once showed us a tax return... In fact, he was audited several times.

That is OK if your goal is 'to be in the business'... I mean, some people just LIKE that lifestyle. I got sick of it..

Anonymous said...

Joecool, you quit a business because an upline, who's opinion or advise you can take or ignore, told you to leave you girl???

Seriously man??? Don't blog about how bad Amway is, blog about what a failure you are in life... Or about what an arse your upline was...

You can make money or you can make excuses! You can't do both... Sounds like you were looking for an excuse to quit and well done mate!! You found one.

Justify it to yourself all you want and keep on blogging so you can feel better about the fact that YOU QUIT!!! YOU ARE A QUITTER... How useless do you have to be if you cannot even follow a simple system and make a business as easy as Amway succeed...???

Lets see if this post makes it onto the blog.....


Anonymous said...

I agree, Joecool has an employee mentality and unfortunately being an IBO means that you have your OWN business.

Really sad that you are blogging and knocking a very good business model because you as an individual couldn't make it work. My upline said this, my upline wanted me to do that, my upline, my upline.... All I read are excuses! YOU need to take responsibility for your life and the poor results you achieve in it!!! Maybe the problem wasn't with Amway, but rather with you???

Joecool said...

LOL/ An employee menatlity? Funny, when I was an IBO, my upline said i had a business mentality. I guess once you leave Amway you automatically change to an employee mentality or become broke.

Anonymous said...

"My upline said..." Your upline was an idiot and he would have told his little b!tch whatever he needed to in order to get you to do something. You need to be told what to do in order to go into action(employee mentality). If you were capable of doing things and thinking for yourself(business mentality), you would have distanced yourself from your upline and partnered up with someone who had the same values and goals as you.

Instead you quit and then write a blog about how bad this business model is...??? I would be too embarrassed to quit and then look for excuses and shift blame if it was me. Rather keep quite because you aren't fooling anyone.

I truly hope people who read this have the wisdom do see past your incompetence and research this for themselves...

Joecool said...

You're just a little bitch repeating what your upline said. We were told that the upline was a millionaire and that we'd be crazy not to take his advice. I eventually quit because I did what I was advised and did not make a net profit as the upline assured me. I made a wise business decision.

Anonymous said...

I don't think you did haha

Anonymous said...

like he cares what you think?