Wednesday, July 15, 2015

Retired Amway Diamonds And Other Myths?

I was watching a show on Discovery channel the other night about Sasquatch. It was followed by a show about evidence of UFOs. It made me start to think about these phenomena. It seems like everyone has heard about or knows something about Sasquatch (Big foot) and/or UFOs. There are many documentaries showing pictures and evidence of both, but to date, there is no bonafide evidence that these things exist. You'd think that a body or bones of a Sasquatch would turn up somewhere, sooner or later, or we would find compelling evidence of a spaceship from another galaxy.

It sounds just like stories of people who built a diamondship, then "walked away" from their businesses, retired in the lap of luxury and did nothing while the money kept rolling in. I heard numerous scenarios about this happening, but looking back, all the diamonds kept working and since Joecool left the business, the diamond either kept working, or quit or got terminated. But I never heard anyone name some higher up Amway pin who built a business, and then walked away from it to travel the beaches of the world while hundreds of thousands of dollars kept rolling in. Many have heard about it but nobody seems to be able to name any of these folks. I mean after over 50 years in existence, you'd think some of these folks would exist, especially when it seems to be a selling point of the business for many AMOs.

It is my opinion that Sasquatch, UFOs and retired Amways diamonds (with significant Amway income) are non existent. If these folks existed, there should be at least some shred of evidence of it. The lack of evidence indicates to me that it is either non existent or so rare that nobody can display bonafide proof. I mean there aren't any T-Rexs roaming the earth anymore but fossil evidence proves that they existed at one time.

Keeping in mind that the Amway business has a high attrition rate, coupled with low sales to non IBOs and you can easily conclude that residual and significant income is nearly impossible. An Amway business that is left alone will deteriorate like a sandcastle does as the waves wash it away. You (in theory) could possible walk away from an Amway business for a while and collect some income, but you won't be collecting enough income to live the "diamond lifestyle" as portrayed by diamonds in their functions and open meetings. I'm not even sure that active diamonds can comfortably afford that lifestyle even when building their businesses. There is ample evidence to support my claim. Diamonds losing homes to foreclosure, former diamonds revealing secrets about their income. If you really believe you can walk away from your Amway business and collect untold wealth, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. :-)

25 comments:

Qiunan Tang said...

Let me ask you , how much you think a diamond make a year ?

Joecool said...

It depends on whether the diamond is actually qualified or not. Most diamonds are not Q12 sothey likely make about $150K from Amway and whatever they make from tools. After taxes and business expenses, they probably live middle class lifestyles. Most diamonds cannot afford the diamond lifestyle.

Qiunan Tang said...

Again your number is way out. Base on amway publish on 2013 , avg founder emerald made 135 K , founder diamond is 565k(when the top one made close to 3 million) . On amway check only. So a diamond, no q12 making as least 250k a year in NA with amway check. (my upline diamond make a little more than 300k, alone, not with her husband who spend very little time with amway) and we are not selling any tools. Plus, you get at least two vacation pay by the company , with a value over 20k

Business expenses is very low. It is not a very amusing income yet but it is upper middle class , your in top 30% . And is it a passive income ? well I haven't seen one diamond quite because once you get to diamond , double diamond is very achievable in a year or two. You own a heathy sales channel with 600-1000 salesperson , it grows itself, so it is pAssive income. I don't know the definition of your diamond lifestyle . I never think about it. I talked to more then 20 diamond face to face so far (although only three of them are in NA, one. Canada and two U.S. ) , no one stop there.

We don't talk about tax , everyone pay tax, but commonly we know that you pay lower tax if you are a business owner than taking salary.

Joecool said...

Yes, founder's emeralds and diamonds. Founder's pins are the exception. Most emeralds and diamonds are not founders. The emeralds and diamonds who are not Q12 do not make that much money and after taxes and business expenses, they are living like people who have jobs.

Also, if you are a diamond with no job, you need to pay for medical insurance for your family and other expenses that a job might otherwise pay for.

Qiunan Tang said...

Please tell me what you mean by not making much ? How much is not much? Making a 200k a year call not much ? Avg Q12 platinum made 55k a year, at least two times higher than avg working class. Yes they living like people have a very good job , and don't work for a boss , have much more freedom and ten times higher grown chance then a people have a nice job. For example, 6 legs is a diamond , you get at least addition bonus in 2014 (from the GI program) , when you just make one more leg, you made 70k alone. How fast your salary can increase ? Can't you double your pay check in a year ?

Joecool said...

You're looking at gross income. What about business expenses? At 4000 PV, I had no net profit because of business expenses. It's a dated study, but in Wisconsin, they compiled the top1% of Amway IBO tax returns and they averaged a $900 annual loss. And that's before they started selling voicemail and some other tools. I'll bet the losses are even more now days.

Qiunan Tang said...

What date was the study you are taking ? I found on the interetner the day was in 1982. Today is 2015 . Could you please cite the report date so we are sure about we talking the same one? When were you at 4000 PV ? Can you list all your business expense? Come on , you are talking about tax return, people open a business just for reporting lose and get more tax return or whatever is not a secret .
Part of business is about cost control. I really don't see how conduct amway business will cost a lot money each month. Please tell me how , you can still lose money when you are at 4000 PV when I am profitable since 200 PV. I friend is profitable at 1500 PV too.

It not hard to do so, just list the business expense that could added up to 1000 dollar a month please.

Joecool said...

The study by Bruce Craig. Yes, it was dated but nothing has happened since then that would change things except that IBOs these days have MORE expenses than back in 1982.

I was at 4000 PV in 1997. My business expenses also ate up my bonus check.

Qiunan Tang said...

How can you say nothing changed since 1982? IBOs have to make same amount of PV to get bonus as today, nothing change. But, in 1982, the avg house income is $18,801 (Nominal $) and in 2012 is $49,486. So it is a big pop for purchasing power. How may people need weight management product in 1982? How many people understand we need nutrition supplement in 1982? It is easier to sell more today then back then. Also, many additional bonus from Amway has been added since then, increase the income of IBOs.

"IBOs these days have MORE expenses than back in 1982" ? I have some data tell the very different. IBOs business expenses fall into the business operational cost. Early data won't available but since the 2006 to 2013, "Operating expenses as a percent of sales" drops, from 10% to 8.3%. (source http://www.census.gov/econ/bes/)

You said your business expenses ate up your bonus check, what are they? I can't find my business expenses of operating Amway business cost more than 70 dollars per month at the very upper end. Well,you think your most cost end up on buying over prices selling tools that in fact not helping you enough. So, let me ask you the question. if you said those tools are useless (I don't know, I never see one of them), then why can't you still making sells on 4000PV and no pay for tools, or lets say you just leave WWDB (is the one you are in?) and do Amway in your own so it won't cost you all that much?

Joecool said...

Business expenses = standing orders, voicemail, books, functions, open meetings, gas, brochures, product kits, etc.

Back in 1982, there was no voicemail and website fees. Aside from that, things are mostly the same.

But yes, there are more expenses now than before.

Qiunan Tang said...

There is no free online class provide by amway in 1982. Today , free class are provide online for free. I don't know what is standing order , do you have to order it in order to do amway business? Do you have to purchase books to do amway business ? Amway provide ePub freely right now. If you feel meeting and fuctions are useless, then just don't go. Product kits? don't know that you mean.
Voicemail ? Who use that ? Tons free communicate tool amway also provide one . the need of brochures reduce because now we can download the ePub version or order from website.

From your list, only gas is essential. So now we have much less expense than 1982 .

Joecool said...

Standing order is a weekly cd subscription. What ystem are you in? Nearly all Amway systems have standing order. You must not be from the US.

Qiunan Tang said...

Nearly all the system you know. I am not from U.S but now I am doing business in Las Vegas , our system has been in U.S. Market over 10 years and I just ask people around non of them said in any point of time we have a standard order or mandatory monthly payment things like that .

I wasn't a amway number in other regions , my sells is base on U.S market alone. I conduct no business outside NA market so far.

We are lead by the world number one amway distributor Holly Chen who just reach FFA 80 this year. You can google amway holly Chen and read the wsj report.

Qiunan Tang said...

We don't know how many diamonds we have in North American, but I met five already. Our local leader is a new diamond this year , who did it in 5 years from she join the business, 6 years since she moved to U.S (she know nothing about Amway before she moved here) and she just merely around 30s. Well, you might have a Amway experience from 15 years ago tells you it is a bad, I have a live experience telling me it make sense.
Well, I don't like to cite independent case, however, it is true that who you follow and how good your mentor will have huge impact on your success. I mean, you might meet your upline platinum or diamond only in the open meeting or functions or so. You get very little help from them. We work together closely, meeting at least 3-4 times a week.

That's why I am so confident that I can success in this business. I understand, for most of people don't get such good training chance. That's how we get ahead of our competitors.

Joecool said...

So did your diamond start and build the business in the US or in a foreign country? In the US, there very few new diamonds that I know of.

Joecool said...

The standing order is not mandatory but many upline will tell you that you cannot succeed with it.

Qiunan Tang said...

I said that , she join Amway 5 years ago, she moved to U.S 6 years ago. She start the business in the U.S. And she wasn't doing the business before she came to U.S.

Joecool said...

Ok, so what system are you working with? Your system sounds different than many others I have heard of.

Qiunan Tang said...

Also, I have to clealify that she is not my upline, my preformance will not add a single cent to her bonus check. But I still get help from her and many others in Las Vegas. we operator very very different from other groups as you know.

Her story should be published soon on amway achieve .

Joecool said...

So are you allowed to say what system you are working with?

Qiunan Tang said...

I said that Already . We are lead by the world number one amway distributor Holly Chen who just reach FFA 80 this year. You can google amway holly Chen and read the wsj report.
We are not incorporated , Some website call us ultra group, but it unofficial. Official name is "Chao Fan" in Chinese.

Qiunan Tang said...

Since I name our system , I have to make it very clear. i only represent myself giving my own experience base on my best knowledge. I am have almost no knowledge about WWDB or any other system or groups. I did not label them as scam nor do I saying they are doing anything bad.

I simply saying we are doing the same as the way joecool experienced.Also, I am not making claim for our whole group, I am only talking what we did and how we did it here in Las Vegas. I do know we suppose to do the same or similar in other cities.

Joecool said...

I read that they are in the "Plum Blossom" line of sponsorship.

Joecool said...

I was in WWDB and I know the leaders lied and they were ruthless about it.

Qiunan Tang said...

Well some might refer to that name as well but it is not the official name. I take that as a discretion of the our system. However, the translation of the name wasn't matter much. Also in side "Chao Fan" each FA might has a additional name of sub gourp Which might case confusion as well.