Friday, August 7, 2015

Amway And Integrity?

I've been following the blog of a WWDB IBO named "Shaun". He runs the blog called "Expeditions Of Truth" http://expeditionoftruths.com/ ***Update*** It appears Shaun is no longer in the Amway business. His blog is gone. He doesn't respond to messages and his twitter account no longer mentions "Amway". He is another former fired up IBO who saw some limited success only to quit and fail.

He seems to think that not only is he in business with people full of integrity, he also thinks that he is going to retire in November 2011. This is now August 2015. While I think doing business with people of integrity is a good thing, I also know of many successful people in business who are ruthless. So are Amway people full of integrty or are they just as ruthless as other business people? Does it matter? In my opinion, it doesn't matter except for the fact that WWDB people seem to think that they have integrity filled leaders.

Well, lets look at some of these leaders. Back in the 1990's, the current batch of WWDB leaders swore that nobody made a profit on tools. Nobody knew the truth at the time. We now know that this was a lie. Is this integrity? We know that Greg Duncan was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. Not paying for your obligations is integrity? We know that Greg Duncan and David Shores had homes foreclosed (Public information). Is that a move filled with integrity? With the tons of money Duncan and Shores make, couldn't they have made an effort to pay off their debts? Where's that integrity that they themselves have probably taught?

If you look at a blog linked to this one "Rocket's Rants", there's a youtube video of "crown" Brad Duncan telling rank and file IBOs that they can make "hundreds of thousands of dollars" a month. First of all, I wonder if Brad Duncan has achieved this himself, let alone any others? Even if someone had achieved it, it would be illegal or unethical to portray that kind of success as achieveable to a prospect. So was Brad acting illegally or unethically? Is that integrity?

Brad Wolgamott used to talk about how WWDB had a low divorce rate. Is it full on integrity for WWDB leaders to seperate or divorce when they talk about integrity and how Amway and WWDB saves marriages? What about Dean Kosage? Another divorcee? Are they full of integrity? What say you Shaun Guthrie of WWDB? What about Howie Danzik whose website doesn't mention that he was once married to Susan? Is it integrity to say you built the business as a single when Howie previously built the business with his former wife?

Amway's owner Rich DeVos ackowledged that the "tools" were likely a pyramid scam and Amway did nothing after sales dropped following some attempts to clean it up. Is that an integrity move? I don't know but
it sure seems as if WWDB and Amway have issues where integrity is concerned. What if someone is a complete asshat and decides to join Amway? Does that person suddenly have integrity?

Now there's some food for thought.

20 comments:

Qiunan Tang said...

Amway should not respond to WWDB or any other tools scam as there two different business. wwdb for example, they just a training services provider, a for profit LLC selling training tools. Amway can't stop what they doing nor they should. All they can do it try to provide more and more trainning information , free class and video by themselves. They are doing so.

Joecool said...

Amway can stop them if they wanted to. WWDB is a scam. The diamonds in the past LIED and said they were non profit and that they did not make money from tools and functions. When they got caught, they admitted profits from tools and lied that they don't make much from tools. How can you believe liars?

Qiunan Tang said...

I don't believe them , nor should anyone . As you found a LLC , it is a for profit company . If you said you are non for profit , prove it by showing the tax document.

Joecool said...

Right,, WWDB leaders were shown to be liars because WWDB is listed as an LLC for profit company. I checked.

Anonymous said...

@Joecool why not just ask this guy if he can sell product at retail prices competitive with Walmart and still make anything and draw up a real business plan with overhead etc. and not just that hypothetical Amway in Wonderland jazz.

Joecool said...

Yeah, everyone seems to talk a good geam in Amway but I'm not so sure that it works so well in real life.

Qiunan Tang said...

Oh you think Walmart has good product ? We are not competing price with Walmart . What you find in Walmart ? Read this http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2015/02/03/new-york-attorney-general-targets-supplements-at-major-retailers/?referrer=

Yes , Walmart price is low..just a side note, nutrition supplement make up about 70% of amway sells.

Joecool said...

WalMart has decent products. And anyone can get nutritional products cheaper than Amway that have similar results. Don't forget that 33% markup for IBO bonuses.

Qiunan Tang said...

Well, don't forget the X% (more than 33%) markup for Walmart to pay their salesperson, rent and all cost of running stores.
Yes, eating organic food and non-organic food also have similar results. Yes, Walmart has decent products(it is a true statement, but it means nothing). Why Macy's still in business when it usually price a higher than Walmart? Because they also have decent product. So does Amway.

Joecool said...

WalMart has a razor thin margin. They sell it cheap but they move massive volume. WalMart doesn't have layers of "Upline and downline" to pay. They buy it and sell it. The consumer gets the benefit of low prices.

Qiunan Tang said...

Amway don't have stores and staffs to pay. Anway manufactures products(most of them) and sell it. Customer get benefit of high quality products.

Joecool said...

So Amway doesn't have staff and stores to pay for. But they still charge more than WalMart because they have added more middlemen to the delivery process (upline and downline).

Qiunan Tang said...

In a business point of view , Amway has less middleman(or similar) then Walmart to delivery process. Amway is a manufacture , sells directly to consume via IBOs. Walmart purchase product and resale it to customers. All the stores are middleman. I only shop at warlmart for food most of time. Almost all other products I s cheaper on Amazon when you have a prime membership. If applies your standard , Walmart is over charged consumers because they have to pay store rents and staffs.

Joecool said...

Stores are not middlemen. Stores do not receive a commission. That's why Walmart is cheaper. They buy from the manufacturer and sell to the consumer. Amway does the same thing but they also pay upline and downline and downline and downline. That's why Amway's prices are higher. Amway overcharges because they pay layers of IBOs.

Qiunan Tang said...

Store do receive "commission" ,otherwise how store pay their bills? How store managers get pay ? How store staffs get pay?
Amway don't buy from manufacture , they manage it by themself. Walmart also do the same for some product. That's why some product , such as infant formula is much cheaper with Walmart brand.

On the other hand , IBOs who sell large auantities can off set the shipping and sell at IBOs cost and still make profit which really cut down the prices. Of course , you can't compare Walmart product to Amway because they don't carry the same product .

Joecool said...

The store is a building. Yeah, the company earns profits but I get your point. Amway only manufactures certain products. The rest in the catalogs are through other "partner" stores and affiliates. Oddly enough, Amway makes their own vitamins but they cost way more than from other stores.

Yeah, Walmart doesn't sell Amway products but they sell soap, shampoo, cosmetics, vitamins and other products that Amway has. And they are much much much much cheaper.

Qiunan Tang said...

Well, not all Walmart product has the same price. For example , body wash in Walmart range from 0.15 to 0.62 (or higher) with Walmart. Amway cost is 0.36. My point is, even Walmart as all other retailer, understand the price and quality different among brands. Also, those higher price product also selling quite well, otherwise they can't be on there. Amway just choose a different way to sell their product and paying for the sells channel, it does not make their product better or worse by doing that. Consumer choose the product and see if they like it or can afford to buy it.

Joecool said...

What are you doing? Making up prices?

Qiunan Tang said...

No price are found on Walmart.com and awkward price we sold what do you mean by making price . Well the price is per ounce so it might confuse you at first saw.

Joecool said...

Of course there are prices on WalMat.com. Where did you get the idea there aren't?