Tuesday, August 11, 2015

Joecool's Amway 4000 PV Business?

I wanted to give people a glimpse into what it was like at the 4000 PV level and what my experience was. Although Amway and WWDB apologists will claim this doesn't happen, or that it doesn't happen anymore, I have reasons to believe that very little has changed in WWDB since I was an IBO. The only major difference was that we did call in and product pick up back then. Apparently, some WWDB leaders still talk about buying homes in cash and teaching the same old stuff. They apparently still teach about Amway savings marriages, etc. But what was it like for am at 4000 PV?

How many hours per week did I work? I would say up to 30 hours a week was spent on business related issues. Granted, product pick up consumed an entire afternoon and evening, generally on Wednesday evening, I would have to call in my order to the platinum and then pick up the stuff on Thursday afternoon. Then I had to rush home and distribute the stuff to my downline. My upline platinum was not good at filling orders so it was a real pain. I'd say pick up and associated paperwork costed me maybe 8 hours a week. One good benefit today is that Amway issues the bonuses. In the old days, you as an upline had to do so. (This is an area where I agree that Amway made good progress) I did hear though, that some factions of WWDB still has call in and pick up for standing orders and such. If this is true, then they undid the progress that Amway had made. Also, as a up and coming leader, my platinum expected me to absorb some of the cost of returned tools, such as absorbing losses if someone on standing order quit. (Brad Duncan cut a true north tape at the time that basically said IBOs absorb the cost of standing orders for downlines who quit)

As a 4000 pin, I had to show the plan or attend plans for my frontline, if the platinum was showing the plan. I'd say 4 nights per week we showed the plan for a downline or a downline in depth. Of course after the plan, we might "hang out" with downline and have some night owl teaching. Some people call this association or whatever. Depending on the length of the drive, this might take 3-4 hours 4 nights per week. Sometimes it was shorter when you had no shows, sometimes longer if you had more guests.

We counseled with downline and upline. I spent some individual time with my upline and also with downline who wanted one on one time to get ideas on how to improve their Amway business. We looked over their group parameters and of course, tools flow. There was a WWDB counseling sheet for this purpose. Looking back, I'm not sure what this really accomplished except for the big pins to know which leaders are selling the most tools, which is probably what was most important to the WWDB leaders.

Then we had open meetings and functions. One local function each month and generally one or two open meetings where a diamond or emerald would show the plan. Of course, my sponsor (platinum) did not feel right unless he augmented our function with his own night owl meetings. We also had three long distance functions on the mainland. These functions were (at the time) called Leadership, Family Reunion and Free Enterprise day. Being from Hawaii, these functions costed me, as a single, at least $1,000 or more for each trip because it was airfare during peak travel times, hotel, rental cars and the function ticket. I hate to think what couples paid.

Because of my status as up and coming leader, I had the privilege of attending special meetings where our diamond would teach or show house plans. I even had the honor or driving the diamond to a house plan. Damn, how can anyone live without such an honor?

For my troubles, I had a business at 4000 PV, with eagle parameters. I was considered a "mover and shaker". Lots of people knew me and my sponsor wanted so badly to break a downline platinum. He sat down with me one afternoon and told me I could really push to platinum and ruby easily if I would only ditch my girlfriend (fiancee' at the time). He told me that he would ditch his wife if the upline diamond told him to do so. He said a single (ruby or higher) could easily attract a lot of eligible women. It was after that meeting when I decided to quit. (The person he wanted me to ditch has now been my wife for 20 years and counting)

I had reached 4000 PV. I was making very little or losing some money because of the tools and functions. I did not see prospects of making money even at platinum and now my upline wanted control of my life. I told my group the truth and all of them quit except 1 or 2 of them who were brainwashed enough to stay involved. That was my story and I have no regrets about my decision to quit. I truly hope this story helps a prospect or a current IBO. There were no real prospects of making money until you went beyond platinum because the upline leaders wanted all of your money "reinvested" in the teaching system. After all, that's how they made some serious money. It certainly wasn't what I envisioned for 4000 PV.

20 comments:

Qiunan Tang said...

It is good a inside review. I agree what you said but I have one point to say.
No one from WWDB is amway employees , no one from WWDB can repsent Amway. WWDB is a for profit LLC , you LOS is belong to your and your upline , not belong to Amway. As an IBOs , you and your upline has right to do business in their own way. A lot of things you meantion might against the IBO code of conduce(at least sounds to me at today version).

Remember , not all LOS doing business in the same way. IBOs does not equal to amway. Amway did change to contract now you can't incorporate like it use to be without prove from them.

Joecool said...

You're right. Some LOS are different but they are the same in this regard. And LOS - Line Of Sponsorship is a for profit company that sells tools and functions and they make a profit from IBOs even if the IBOs go broke and lose their homes.

Most LOS are pretty much the same. You claim your LOS doesn't try to push tools and functions but that is odd because as I said, the LOS is a for profit company that sells tools and functions. Why would they tell you not to buy?

It's insidious because there is no evidence that these tools help IBOs to profit.

Qiunan Tang said...

Well, the true is , WWDB or other for profit training companies, does "produce" some new diamonds in last few years and certainly, some profitable IBOs too. So it does count as evidences that those tools, as least work for someone. I neither agree or disagree with it, I only consider IBOs should receive adequate training from upline platinum for free (as it already paid by Amway). All other training should be optional, as like all kinds professional training out there.

And, LOS is not a for profit company by itself(please check the definition of LOS), only the LOS that choose to incorporate then become a profit company.

The LOS, by itself, it sells Amway product, not tools or functions. My LOS, does suggest we go to every function, but we did not make any other tools that were for sell at all. Functions, even if there is a small profit, it just make up a very small percentage of income.

Joecool said...

LOS are not a part of Amway. As far as I know, they are typically LLC companies. Functions are the biggest profit center. Do the math and you can see.

Qiunan Tang said...

LOS is "line of sponsorships" , it is formed when an Amway IBOs has upline and downline , which almost anyone has one. Of course their are not LLC unless they choose to form it and complete all legal requirement. WWDB, for example , is not a LOS, it is a for profit LLC that provide training services to IBOs who want to buy. There are many LOS using WWDB.

Joecool said...

The LOS (WWDB) is Amway IBOs but WWDB is legally separate from Amway.

Burky said...

You should have spoken to his upline. That's not a reliable source of mentorship devorce is something we need less of. And business needs to come after relationships.

Joecool said...

Upline is not a reliable source of mentorship.

Qiunan Tang said...

mentorship is nothing to do with upline . My mentor can be my downline , upline or cross line in our system. It is a team job and that how we are beating everybody. We learn from whoever success in the business and success is proven by sales and income .

Joecool said...

How do you know who is successful in Amway? Nobody shares their profit and loss information. It's a big secret. Many IBOs are taught to dress and act successful when the reality is they are losing money.

Qiunan Tang said...

Really? Do you have anything to support your claim? We know the IBO's pin (as amway publish it) , so we know their income ranges. We can easily write down business expense , as there isn't much you can spend on it. so we know that. Ok , you don't listen , but you watch. Not just one day, but for a couple months , you can tell.

Joecool said...

All we have are diamonds who volunteered information when they quit and Greg Duncan, a triple diamond who went bankrupt. We have their financial information and we also have Amway's income disclosures and diamonds do not make the kind of money that can support a "diamond" lifestyle.

Qiunan Tang said...

I don't know what kind of diamond life you are thinking. I know that diamond make at least 300k a year with great grows on the track. Also has other benefits.

I don't know how they went bankrupt and I don't care. I do know that super starts making millions also can go bankrupt.

So make it clear that a diamond can make avg. 300k and it is a kind of passive income . It is not a super rich life but better most people can do by having a job .

Joecool said...

Amway says average diamond makes 150K and founders diamond makes around 600K but founders diamonds are quite rare.

Qiunan Tang said...

Founder emerald made 135,826 per year avg. I can count out diamond made at least 25k a year. The number of diamond is close to founder diamond. It might be quite rare to you but it is much rare then people in working class can make this much for me.

Joecool said...

The Amway stats indicate that founder's emeralds and diamonds are the exception and not the rule. Also, except for the new diamonds and emeralds, you don't know who is and who isn't. Amway only recognizes the new ones. Amway's position is once a diamond, always a diamond.

Qiunan Tang said...

In almost any company success is exception not the rule. What's the percentage of a worker on average , can make the way to make 200k per year ? Please compare the rate. Oh yes , I guess union worker might get it.

Business is about risk and reward, job is trading time for money. Amway (as well as other nice MLM ) is a good business because it is easy to start and very low risk.

Joecool said...

Yes, but in companies where they pay a wage or salary, even the lowest guy on the organizational chart gets paid and has money at the end of the month. In Amway, almost everyone makes nothing or loses money.

Qiunan Tang said...

Depend on what type of job you are looking at . commission base jobs are out there way before amway was founded. When I run my small business , I don't take wage or salary.

You can not compare Apple to orange . You can not compare business opportunities with a wage job. Most people if they do it in the right way, made money in Good MLM ( not just amway). MLM as a trend grows so fast everywhere, that is a fact.

Joecool said...

Okay, compare it to a franchise. Franchisors set up their franchisees to succeed by studying demographics and market penetration to try and make everyone succeed. In Amway, you sign up everyone regardless of how many distributors live in a certain area. And then the distributors try to sign up friends and family who also add to their own competition.