Wednesday, August 19, 2015

Amway Critics?

To this day, Amway has many critics and supporters. Many supporters become critics if they leave the Amway business. Some Amway apologists are claiming victory recently as they say there are fewer new internet critics. But funny enough, there aren't any apparently new Amway supporters on the net either. But still, it doesn't appear that Amway is suddenly growing by leaps and bounds. The name Amway doesn't bring visions of sugarplums in most people's heads. In fact when you google Amway, you'll see many critical sites and the words scam or pyramid often associated with the name "Amway".

What does the Amway name bring? People often think of "pyramid" or "scam". Some people are negative about the Amway opportunity and they don't even know why. Many people however, were involved in Amway at one time, or knows someone who had a bad experience. While many people's experience may have little to do with the Amway corporation, surely the motivational groups such as N21, BWW, or WWDB has had an impact on people's experience with Amway. Getting tricked into attending meetings or being lied to will lead to a bad experience. So will ridiculous snake oil campaigns like perfect water. Most people are recruited by family or friends, thus these victims are often reluctant to file complaints against their family and friends to authorities.

But has Amway done anything significant about IBO abuses? Surely they must know something about this. Someone from Amway routinely visits my blog to see what I am writing. But as far as I know, even the most abusive uplines have gone unpunished. Amway implemented an accreditation program, but thus far it appears to be mostly a toothless tiger.

I have some suggestions to curb Amway criticism. Transparency. Why not inform prospects of how many diamonds are currently qualified? Why not say how many IBOs are active or registered? Why not report North American sales? Why not say what the typical IBO earns? It would prevent critics and supporters from extrapolating information and making their own possibly inaccurate conclusions. Of course Amway is a private company and therefore will probably release only information that is required by law. And that is their right. But if that is the case, then criticism will continue......

Like the AMO saying goes, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. With no apparent changes forthcoming from Amway, the valid criticism continues........

53 comments:

Positive Movements said...

What other opportunities are out there that have a low entry fee, which makes it a low risk opportunity, and can potentially yield high profits? Now, with every business opportunity there is an effort that needs to be put forth, to see any results or movement in the right direction. If these "victims" feel as though they are being taken advantage of, are they putting in the same efforts as their upline did when they were new IBOs? To have a successful business, mentorship, honesty, and hard work are the three most important parts in maintaining a postive environment for growth. It is not a get rich quick opportunity and there surely is opporunity to take advantage of.

Joecool said...

What other opportunities are out there? Buying and selling on Amazon or ebay. Smart investing in the stock market. Starting your own part time business. Many better things other than Amway.

Positive Movements said...

Buying and selling on Amazon and Ebates will not yield high profits, therefore is a waste of time. Also, not everyone knows how to invest smart in the stock market. Finally, starting a small business is very expensive which makes it a high risk investment that could potentially make you broke. Amway gives your average american a chance to earn income and live how they want to live. If you know how to manage time well, stay positive, and keep your eye on the prize you will do GREAT!

Joecool said...

You can ake better money on Amazon and Ebay than from Amway where the vast majority make nothing or lose money.

Oh, and you also lose times in Amway.

Qiunan Tang said...

Well, as a 4 years successful eBay seller and online retailer, I have to say eBay or Amazon was a good hit. Keyword, WAS. Now, everyone start selling on this places, drag the profit margin down to the ground. I am lucky enough to start with almost zero investment and rolling up a quite good profit (still doing it now). That's why I choose Amway, same thing.
Oh, by the way,some seller is selling Amway product on Amazon(well, it is against the rules to do so), what does it prove?

Joecool said...

Why do you think people sell Amway products on ebay or Amazon?

Qiunan Tang said...

Because it sells and they make good money. They can sell amway product at IBO cost with free shipping (prime) , and still pay the fees (somewhere around 7%) . So it prove couple important things: first , non IBOs willing to purchase amway product , because it make no sense for a IBO buy from Amazon(as it does not give you PV/BV). Second , a substantial amount consumer agree that amway product is better , by purchasing, than other cheaper product as they can easily view on Amazon . Last , selling amway product is profitable otherwise those seller won't sell it.

So it proved amway product sells and you can make money by selling it.

Joecool said...

1. Selling Amway products on Amazon or ebay is against Amway rules.

2. Why do many products get sold below IBO cost?

Qiunan Tang said...

Yes , it is against the rule. I used it as a fact against your many claims. It just a clear prove that amway products sells well, and you can sell to consumers.

Break the rule is wrong. However we can achive the same (sell as IBO price and delivery free in person) and stay legit .

Joecool said...

Why would an IBO sell a product below cost when they could just return it and get their money back? Is there something we don't know about Amway's return policy?

Why do so many IBOs break the rules?

Positive Movements said...

I am a proud IBO and by losing money you mean me purchasing products I thoroughly enjoy using and me getting paid to use those products.. Firstly, I don't understand your argument because I am not losing money, I am investing time into prospecting (looking for people who want the same financial goals and freedoms) and money into products I would otherwise use if I bought from somewhere else, not to include profit-sharing with our major affiliates. By doing this I am being paid and I am promoting products that I use. I call that a win joecool.

Dan L. said...

Hey Positive Movements,

Does your name have something to do with Positive Thinking? The "power" of "positive thinking" is Amway mythology, you know. No scientific tests ever measured positive and negative thoughts, nor could there be any such tests because thoughts are nonphysical and their "power" cannot be measured. Which leads to my observation that your comments about "not losing money" seem grounded in the deluded myopia common to all Amway distributors, from the biggest pins to the 100 pv-ers. You ARE losing money, by definition, if, in your own words you are "using the products", "time" looking for people, and "promoting" the products. You are getting paid for all that and running a profit? Doesn't sound like it. Mind if we get a look at your tax returns and year-to-date financials? I think you DO understand Joe Cool's argument and are just stubbornly making excuses. I know - I've been there. Don't waste another day of your life with these greedheads who are just going to make you waste years of your time and treasure on THEM.

Joecool said...

Dan, your comment are spot on. On Amway.com, it says that about .26% of IBOs reach platinum. Platinum is where you apparently begin to break even or make a little profit so about 1 in 400 IBOs make a little (after expenses) or break even. Does that sound like a good investment of your time and money?

Dan L. said...

No, it doesn't. Factor in the expense of weekly purchases of "tools" and the cost of attending overpriced "functions" like "Dream Night", "Leadership", or "Free Enterprise Days," and unless you have family or trust fund money to fall back on, you're looking at the brink of bankruptcy after sustaining a few years in this so-called business. (Unless, of course, you're in on the top of the scam).

Joecool said...

Yes, the upline will bleed you to death one cd at a time, one function at a time and make you think they're doing you a favor in the process. It's a clever scam.

Positive Movements said...

(bio) I started 2 months ago and I am 26 with an accounting degree. I am doing perfectly fine with my career and looked for other opportunities. I do not want anyone getting me confused of being an un-educated individual who has not done their research. I have a great up-line who is supporting me with interviews while I am not there and I will do the same for my downline.

Said that-- 5*150= 750* 12% = $90
15*150= 2250 * 15% = $270
45*150= 6750 * 23%= $1552

So you're telling me you will trade time for a salary/hourly wage, compared to investing time to earn extra money on top of what you're already earning.

AMWAY is the #1 direct selling/referral marketing company
#2 Is in the top 50 private companies (#26) on Forbes
#3 Nutrilite
#4 XS




Positive Movements said...

I also do want to include there are tax advanteges to owning your own business for the people not thinking "money savy"

Joecool said...

It is against Amway rules to promote the opportunity as a tax shelter.

Joecool said...

Okay, since you're educated, I can convey some of this to you. You say Amway is #1 in direct selling, etc and top 50 in companies.

1. You are not Amway. You are an independent business owner.

2. Amway's numbers show that about .26% or about 1 in 400 reach the gold level where you might make enogh to break even (depending on your expenses)

3. You showed numbers of hypotheticals. Amway works well on paper bbut not so well in real life.

Qiunan Tang said...

Joecool , please get your number updated . More than 1% IBOs is gold , not counting higher. (It also counted inactive IBOs) . 0.9 reach Platimun but higher. The number wasn't very high but certainly is reasonable after meaning adjustment .

It work on real life because I saw so many successful examples. I also see a lot fail cases . True , more people fail , as it is true in all most everything by my stander.

Qiunan Tang said...

Why they selling on Amazon? Because it sells and sell well so they can make profit. Yes , they sell at cost but still get paid the commission. Not many IBOs breaking rules, but there are some doing it. Of course , Amway is working hard to band them and did success with some. But still have some trying.

Anyway, it clearly prove amway product sell to non IBOs and selling quite well.

Positive Movements said...

Im sorry it didn't work out for you, but you don't need to ruin it for others

Qiunan Tang said...

Functions and tools are optional. Almost everytime I attend function I learned great things and/or sign up new members.

Joecool said...

How do I ruin it for others? My experience is in line with Amway stats. 1 in 400 reach platinum and the vast majority make nothing or lose money.

Secondly, my blog is just a blog. Nobody is forced to come here and read it, but it's here for people who need information and I share my experiences.

Joecool said...

And what is a newbie supposed to say when they are told "tools are optional but so is success"?

Joecool said...

Buying products is not a business expense except perhaps for samples. But there are cds, voicemail, seminars, books and other materials. They eat into your profits and cam result in losses. Not to mention your time spent working the business.

Joecool said...

Tell Amway to get their numbers correct. Amway.com says .26% reach platinum. That's just a little higher than 1 in 400.

Dan L. said...

Worship of the Golden Calf is failure, not success, Positive Movements. Don't get sucked in. Oh, it all sounds so good...so noble! Make some extra money, "part time" (har har)...tax advantages...surround yourself with virtuous, noble people who don't think nego-nego...cultivate the Law of Attraction in your life to get rich...

Just walk away now. Don't listen to another tape or attend another meeting. You won't regret it.

Qiunan Tang said...

Where is your source ?

Qiunan Tang said...

Let fix the number first :
Following are approximate percentages of IBOs in North America who achieved the illustrated levels of success in the performance year ending August 31, 2013: Gold (1.42%), Platinum (0.38%), Founders Platinum (0.60%), Sapphire (0.036%), Founders Sapphire (0.036%), Emerald (0.035%), Founders Emerald (0.075%), Diamond (0.018%), Founders Diamond (0.0122%)

It is listed at each level , also base on the fact, Q12 (founder) platinum are more than regular platinum (as well as founder emerald) . Then, the number above is base on all IBOs , however it is fair to take out non active IBOs , only 46% are active IBOs so we can adjust it a little.

You cut the number so much my friend . Check your source and make sure you understand it correctly .

Joecool said...

Your numbers are based on active IBOs and not all IBOs.

Qiunan Tang said...

Sure , I am just tell you that your experience were 18 years old and heavily limited to wwdb system.

Joecool said...

My source is Amway.com

Joecool said...

WWDB is a big LOS and came from BWW. How do you know how the rest operate? They all pretty much operate the same.

Qiunan Tang said...

Link? My source is from the PDFs of Money and Reward by amway I also hold and hand out hard copies. Read the print many times I belief it is base on IBOs , as it does not use the word active like it was using it the other statements.

Joecool said...

You need to read Amway's disclosures more carefully.

Qiunan Tang said...

So you claim you get it from amway.com , do you have the link ? I think I read careful enough. where you get your 0.26% ?

Joecool said...

It was on their income disclosure unless they have updated it with something else.

Dan L. said...

Of course it was "heavily limited" to Worldwide. All the "systems" are basically the same, as Joe notes, so what is the magical difference with your LOS? They all sacrifice to and worship the Golden Calf. You can't ignore that, Mr. Tang. "Flee youthful lusts," as it is written in the scriptures. Flee, Mr. Tang, flee.

Qiunan Tang said...

that's your guess, you don't know. Last time at a amway even , there are 2000+ Spanish speaking IBOs show up, I have no idea how they operator. You can't just guess. They're almost no internet and smart phone back then compare to today.

Qiunan Tang said...

Can you post the link that you saw it. Here is my

http://read.dmtmag.com/i/368389-fiscal-year-2015

Cheek the footnote on page 10 .

Joecool said...

Posted

Qiunan Tang said...

And when were you get it? My data is base on F2013.

Joecool said...

Does your LOS sell cds and seminar ticketes for a profit? If they do, they are like the rest. An LOS is a for profit organization that sells training and motivation to IBOs. Why would yours be any different from the others?

Joecool said...

Yes, the LOS all sell training to IBOs and profit even if the IBOs make nothing and/or lose money.

Qiunan Tang said...

No, my Los never make CDs or any tools. I don't know if the seminars made profit or not but price are reasonable. Not all Los is making profit by selling tools. You can just guess and claim all amway Los do the same.

Qiunan Tang said...

Well, making statements with no fact backing it up. Do you know all systems and how they operate?
Well, I can confidently said all business are basically the same , making money from customer when customer making nothing or lose money. All human are the same because we are human.

It goes to nowhere. training company like BBW or WWDB is a for profit company sells products. You went to school get a degree and can't get a job or won't make money, do you call school is a scam ?

I don't know what is a Golden Calf, I don't workship anyone. We just learn from successful person.

Joecool said...

Yes, the training companies are more alike than not. They sell Amway related training and motivation and make money whether IBOs profit or now.

School is not a scam because school exists to provide you an education. Colleges do not primarily promote themselves as a training ground for jobs (or employers). On the other hand, Amway is promoted as a way to make lots of money, often in 2-5 years. Big difference.

Joecool said...

Your LOS makes profits otherwise they wouldn't exist. I'm not guessing. An LOS is a third party for profit company that sells training and motivational materials to IBOs. They may have variations on what materials they sell depending on where they operate but they are basically the same.

Dan L. said...

What facts are you looking for, Mr. Tang? Considering that what you say is basically fact-free. The Golden Calf is a god of your own imagination - in your case, the Great God Amway and the priesthood for that false religion, your LOS. The Bible condemns the imagination of man as foolish and corrupt. The opposite of what Amway LOS groups invariably teach.

Anonymous said...

You said it to yourself. That means it is true that 99% will fail even the most dedicated ibo

Anonymous said...

Tang even said that less than 1% achieve success.

Joecool said...

The system is designed that way