Monday, August 3, 2015

Joecool's Amway Challenge

I often hear stories and testimonies about how some people (usually newbies) have this incredible belief in Amway, their sponsors and their LOS, such as WWDB or Network 21. Being that many, possibly most IBOs are sponsored by a friend or family member, means that there is an inherent trust in the sponsor or upline. If that were not true, then we would likely see many more complaints about Amway and/or the uplines and lines of sponsorship.

But an important facet of being an IBO is to have a dream. Don't let "naysayers" steal your dream, is what many IBOs are told. But what is that dream? Is is a dream (a long term attainable goal) or a wish such as winning the powerball lottery? Many prospects and IBOs want to succeed. They are willing to work hard, and are very dedicated, I would say that these folks usually will end up failing, not for lack of effort, but for a flawed MLM/Amway system that cannot possibly reward more than a few. The famed 6-4-2, 6-4-3 or some other variation of the plan will illustrate that only 1 in 100 or so can be "platinum". And that's with nobody quitting. Factor in attrition and "do nothings" and it might be 1 in 200 who can reach platinum. Even if the whole world signed up for Amway, that fact doesn't change.

Do you really believe in Amway and your line of sponsorship such as WWDB or Network 21? If you truly believe in Amway and your mentors, I challenge you to do one of these things. If you can't or won't, then I question your level of commitment. I question your belief. I'm not here to steal your dream. I am just challenging you.

Take your 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 or 6-4-3 plan to a loan officer at a bank and show them the plan. (Hey, it will help you be CORE) Ask the loan officer for their opinion of the plan and see if you can get a business loan based on the Amway plan. If not that, try seeking the advice of a real millionaire (Someone who has a net worth of a million bucks) and see if they think the 6-4-2 or other Amway (version) plans can work and whether they think Amway is a good idea. Heck, try asking your church Pastor. My church Pastor said Amway had too many false hopes and promises to be considered a viable business option.

How strong is your belief in Amway? Strong enough to take my challenge? Or will you ignore this and go on fooling yourself?

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

Amway (and any other similar MLM scam) is tightly scripted. They've been pulling the same scam since long ago so they have polished it to a "T". They separate you from your non Amway friends (until you've been sufficiently brainwashed by them) and then they turn you loose to try to recruit them too. Kind of like the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers". The reason they want to hold you tight in their orbit is to lovebomb you with their b.s. and to keep you away from other sources of information, like the truth.

Amway wants you to think you need to hurry up and act quickly on this "extraordinary business opportunity" before it gets away. Ironically, one of their selling points is that Amway has been around for over a half century so then it must be good, right? Well then, by that same reasoning their "extraordinary" offer will still be around after you take the time to investigate it, but you almost certainly will not be willing to part with your money if you do.

Joecool said...

Thanks for your insightful comments. You are right. Amway's been around for a long time so there should be no rush to join without doing due diligence as anyone should when considering a business option. Amway IBOs try to use hype an excitement to recruit but as with many things, take time to decide, don't make an impulse decision and allow the facts to speak for themselves.

Qiunan Tang said...

I haven hear a 6-4-2 plan or such also. What I learned is a 60-40-20-7-1 plan, means only one out of 60 people who insterst on amway you could expect to become your active down line that work as close hard as your. Amway is not a easy business(there is no business is easy at all, 90% of business close door in first year, than anther 50% close in 3 years!) , whoever told you that amway is easy money you should get away from them ASAP. I am a IBO , I never work with or told anyone I try to recruit that amway is a easy business.
Amway does not make any false promise, only bad IBOs made them. My diamond up line just showed us how hard she worked to get to diamond in 5 years, even with all those great helpers.
However, it is possible to success with amway , you just have to understand, as it is true to start any own business , 90% of business fell , 95% of business lose money. I do not learn it from amway , I lean it from business college, from busniess owners and being one of the loser onetime ( as I try to start two business and lose a bit money , however I succeed on my third online business so far) .
Don't get to involve until you find it is for you, it takes a lot to succss in amway business. If it not for you, then just use some product if it fet you , or make extart 100 or 200 dollar and that would be it.

Qiunan Tang said...

By the way the first mistake to do is to write a business plan and go to banker, they know zero about business. I do asked a couple business person and they all said the plan is good , although it is hard, same as any business .

Joecool said...

Loan officers who process business loans are VERY knowlledgeable about business and business plans.

Qiunan Tang said...

Do they? Tell me a successful business start with a bank loan. Ask and read about entrepreneurs. I am one , and I attended my college. Banker are not invester , they are looking for if you can pay the money back with interest. If you can do so , they don't careful if your business plan or business at all. Nothing wrong with it, it is their job to do so. You should ask a entrepreneur, not a bank.

Joecool said...

Entrepreneurs often need loans to get started. Banks loan money. Loan officers are knowledgeable about business and business plans. My friend started a successful business but started with a business loan for a franchise. He had to produce a business plan.

IBOs have no plan. The 6-4-2 is a "dream", not a plan.

William said...

I totally agree that bankers know a lot more about business plans than any IBO upline does. Even a lot of entrpreneurs don't know that much about it. They hire people who do to run that side of it. A good business plan shows how you intend to make money, how you intend to spend that money, how long you think it will take to turn a profit and any business risks involved. I have not see one Amway IBO who can come up with any of that. Qiunan, you keep saying on other posts on this site that even if you get 50 people a year to join, it is good. It may take a very long time, but it is good. That is not good. A good business plan shows that a profit should start 2-5 years after opening a business. That is after all expenses are accounted for. As Joecool says all the time on this site, any profit made in Amway, if any is ever made, goes to tools or to "trainings" which takes away all of that profit. And then of course there are the people that always quit from each group. That takes away even more profit. Any customers that one gets in Amway do not stay loyal and even if you get them to sign up as IBO's, they will quite sooner or later. Usually sooner rather than later. Especially if they are as "sharp" as their sponsor says they are. The Amway business model does not work. Period. If it did, we would have thousands of Diamonds, thousands of Emeralds, and tens of thousands of platimums. But we don't, so it proves it doesn't work.

William said...

Also, not every business is hard. Millions of people make far more money from a "traditional" business than they ever would with Amway. Some businesses, yes, are hard to get off the ground. But most do well in 2-5 years. I always use the example of mobile apps. Look at the creators of Angry Birds or Flappy Bird. He had to take his app out of the App Store because he was making TOO much money and it was messing with his simple lifestyle (man, would I love to be in that position!). There are many, many other ways to make money aside from Amway.

Joecool said...

Thank you for confirming what I've been saying. The business loan officer knows a lot about business, that's why they are the ones who approve of a business plan for a loan. The banks do not randomly approve loans. That's why I challenge an IBO to take one to the bank for assessment.

And yes, even if you make a profit (as I did), your upline is likely to advise you to reinvest it into tools.

I'm fairly certain there are fewer diamonds in the US now than when I was an IBO back in 1997.

Joecool said...

You "can" make money in Amway but you are very unlikely to. There are many easier and better ways to make money. Even a second job with disciplined savings can be much more beneficial than many other ventures.

Qiunan Tang said...

well , my amway business strat to profit in the second month. You can't name a simple statement to compare different industry.

it is very simple, you sell product and make profit. You sell 5000K a month , you make about $600-700. Part time. train one do the same , you double your income even when you just selling the same amount. The operational cost of amway business is very low, I will say about 20-70 dollars each month. Of course , it could be a little higher in first couple months but I don't think here is any reason it can go over 100 if you avg first year.

When a say 50 person sales channel, it create a passive income of 50K a year, this channel worth about 500Kto 1500 K.

Many other business is good , but only few of them are easy to take of ground with neither capital investment nor creativity request to start.

Most customers in amway stay loyal. In fact , a large number of people quite doing business actively but still purchasing product that they like.

Joecool said...

Amway sounds "reasonable" and "possible" on paper and when you hear the plan. You claim that your business expenses are $20 to $70 a month. That sounds pretty low compared to other systems, but let' go with that. If you sell and consume about $300 (USD), you will earn about a $10 monus. You still end up with a net loss unless you sponsor at least 3-4 or more people.

Most IBOs can't sponsor anyone.

It's easy to say you sell $5000 a month but the reality would suggest that you're lucky to sell a fraction of that. If you sold $5000 in products a month, you would make decent retail profits plus about 1500 PV or more. But since you have the bad practice of signing up your customers, you only get the PV and lose about $1500 a month in retail sales profits.

Your upline is giving you bad advice.

Qiunan Tang said...

Well, if you can't sell why you pick a salesman job? If you can't sell, sell you chose to be a merchant?

Retail profit ? Yes I would take if I could but in fact , It wasn't hard for someone to find out they can sign up and get discount. My up line did not tell me to give up the profit , they just remind me that I have to think the retail profit as an additional, but do not relay huge on it to make profit. So we count for the worse case. It is up to me to decide what price I chose to sell to customer or sign them up.

Man , it is a sales man job (selling Both product and business opportunities ) , if you cannot sell, if you don't like to sell and , most importantly , you don't want to learn or change so you can do it, why you pick this business?


Joecool said...

That's just it. I sponsored 12 people and I was close to going platinum. I quit because I wasn't making money. My upline assured me that the money would be there and it wasn't. When I found the upline lies, I started to question them and they could not give me satisfactory answers other than to trust and believe in them. But I could not trust liars.

Qiunan Tang said...

You did it half right. You want quite your Syestem but you don't have to quite amway . Upline have no control of you, you can continue doing the business.

Joecool said...

Why would I want to stay in a business where no money was being made? And no, you don't understand. Your upline can kill your business if they want to.

Qiunan Tang said...

How can your upline kill your business ? I don't understand.

Joecool said...

It's happened to others and there have been lawsuits over it. Your upline diamonds can tell your group you're a sleazeball and that they should council with someone else. The diamond being a high ranking IBO would have more credibility than you. It's happened before and like I said, lawsuits have been filed over it.

Qiunan Tang said...

And if I my source is correct it result the upline has been terminated from business, right ?

Joecool said...

No, the upline is still speaking at functions. Still teaching the same unethical messages they gave 15 years ago. Still teaching self serving information to unsuspecting downline.

Qiunan Tang said...

Would you might tell me which case you are referring to? I am very interesting on it and want to read the case

Anonymous said...

Tang is pretty brainwashed.

Joecool said...

I'm referring to WWDB. You can google lawsuits, WWDB, Samir Attalah, Brad Duncan. Problem is on these lawsuits, they end up getting settled out of court so you don't know the outcome.

Qiunan Tang said...

The google indicate only one case back on 1985. No new case since then, quite outdated.

Brainwashed is a nice label. However, most people, who stick this label on the others, have no idea what it is. (and in many cases, they are the one being brainwashed).

Sorry, it takes a lot more to brainwash me than Amway can do, if they do so at all. It is out of topic.

Anonymous said...

I feel bad for Quinan lol... I'm embarrassed it took me as long as it did to open my eyes and realize this money-sucking "business" was a huge waste of time and energy.

Anonymous said...

"Lawsuits have been filed", but were " settled out of court so you don't know the outcome"...? Do you know the outcome?! If u don't, what is your point then?!

Joecool said...

Ask yuorelf why all these suits are settled out of court? Because they don't want anyone to know what happened. Same with the lawsuits Amway settles. If includes gag orders.

Joecool said...

Brainwashed is when you blindly beilieve everthing your upline tells you, without question.

Qiunan Tang said...

I feel well as I am making money, so it is good.

Joecool said...

But are you making a net profit? I made money too, but my expenses ate up the profits.