One of the humorous things that IBOs say on my blog is if Amway isn't such a great deal, then why don't we offer a better solution? I guess it's not enough that there are facts and experiences posted here so that information seekers can find and make informed decisions about joining or not joining Amway, but we must also suggest better options? Well, I will offer some. I am not advising anyone to listen to my thoughts and opinions and I think you should not act on what you read what's here without doing your due diligence and your own soul searching. That said, here are my opinions on what may be better than Amway:
1. Be a better steward of the money you already have. Many people have enough income but simply channel too much of it to things they don't need. A daily $5 cup of starbucks for example. Disciplined saving and investing. Eliminating certain optional expenses can add up to a lot of money over the course of a month or a year.
2. Get a second job and set aside a portion for saving and investing. You will not only have more discretionary cash, but also more to be able to set aside for your golden years. Try to find a job that's not so stressful and something you may have fun with. For example, working part time at a sporting goods store or golf course would be something that I might enjoy.
3. Start your own small business. The biggest issue with Amway, in my opinion is the endless supply of training that uplines sell. It causes most "serious" IBOs to end up with a net loss. You can find a niche product and sell it on ebay or craigslist, unlike Amway products. Another type of small business might be something like learning to do minor household repairs or installing hardwood flooring. These kinds of services are quite common and can be lucrative.
4. Do nothing. Since most business building IBOs lose money, doing nothing, although comical, actually makes you better financialy off than losing money because of functions and standing orders.
5. Spend more time with your family. Ironically, many IBOs have this as a goal, but actually spend less time with family because of Amway related activities.
There you have it folks. There are some ideaas of what might be better than spending your time and money participating in the Amway business and the Amway motivational organizations. While these are only ideas, only you can decide what is best for you and your family. In whatever you decide to do, I wish you well.
Friday, October 30, 2015
Thursday, October 29, 2015
Real Businesses Take Years To Profit?
One of the things I heard as an IBO and I believe is still said in some Amway meetings is that conventional businesses do not profit for up to five years. That's bogus. Conventional businesses make a profit as soon as they sell their first product. They may not have a net profit right away because of the initial investment into equipment and rental property, but they do profit by selling goods. The same principle would apply to an Amway business except that Amway IBOs have difficulty selling products. If you opened an Amway catalog and compared their prices to local retailers, you would know what I'm talking about.
Despite the small start up costs and the little to no overhead costs, most IBOs never turn a profit. I will acknowledge that many IBOs probably never do a single thing once they sign up. I believe there is an underlying story behind this as well, but I will move on. Out of the more serious IBOs, even in this group, most of them will never make a net profit if they are using tools. Factoring the cost of the website, the voicemail, standing orders, books and functions and cds, IBOs simply get drained of their money a couple hundred of bucks a month at a time. Amway uplines meanwhile, are earning profits on product purchases and someone upline are also earning profits on the tools. The tools carry a higher profit margin so it would make sense that some upline earns ore from tools than from Amway.
Toss in other challenges such as high prices for many products (higher than local retailers) and a spotty reputation from IBO behavior such as tricking people into meetings and you have an opportunity with nearly insurmountable handicaps. Yes, a few rare few and usually charismatic people can overcome these odds, but only one or two out of tens of thousands are able to do so. And even those whe reach the pinnacle of diamond, may not be able to maintain qualification. It's very common for someone to reach the level of emerald or diamond only to backslide and not qualify the following year. So much for residual income and walking the beaches of the world.
So I don't know the detailed statistics about how long it takes for a conventional business to turn a net profit. It may take up to five years. But based on my experiences and some number crunching, I'd have to say that the vast majorty of Amway Business Owners NEVER TURN A PROFIT - EVER, and most of them ending up with net losses when business expenses are factored in.
Despite the small start up costs and the little to no overhead costs, most IBOs never turn a profit. I will acknowledge that many IBOs probably never do a single thing once they sign up. I believe there is an underlying story behind this as well, but I will move on. Out of the more serious IBOs, even in this group, most of them will never make a net profit if they are using tools. Factoring the cost of the website, the voicemail, standing orders, books and functions and cds, IBOs simply get drained of their money a couple hundred of bucks a month at a time. Amway uplines meanwhile, are earning profits on product purchases and someone upline are also earning profits on the tools. The tools carry a higher profit margin so it would make sense that some upline earns ore from tools than from Amway.
Toss in other challenges such as high prices for many products (higher than local retailers) and a spotty reputation from IBO behavior such as tricking people into meetings and you have an opportunity with nearly insurmountable handicaps. Yes, a few rare few and usually charismatic people can overcome these odds, but only one or two out of tens of thousands are able to do so. And even those whe reach the pinnacle of diamond, may not be able to maintain qualification. It's very common for someone to reach the level of emerald or diamond only to backslide and not qualify the following year. So much for residual income and walking the beaches of the world.
So I don't know the detailed statistics about how long it takes for a conventional business to turn a net profit. It may take up to five years. But based on my experiences and some number crunching, I'd have to say that the vast majorty of Amway Business Owners NEVER TURN A PROFIT - EVER, and most of them ending up with net losses when business expenses are factored in.
Wednesday, October 28, 2015
Amway IBOs Are Free!
Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis.
I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me.
But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.
1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.
2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?
I am assuming that this is still the case for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs. IBOs still think they will be rich. Also, 2-5 years sounds like "get rich quick" to me.
But hey, financial freedom would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. It would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.
1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.
2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business. Also, I don't know of any Amway retirees who built their business once and walked away with any significant residual income from Amway. Do you?
Tuesday, October 27, 2015
Losing Your Shirt While Thinking You're An Amway Success?
One of the issues I have with the Amway plan is that the newest IBO, possibly the one who does the most "Work", receives the smallest compensation. Amway pays about 32% of their income back in the form of bonuses. An IBO who does 100 PV receives a 3% bonus and somewhere, uplines and sponsors receive the rest. Some of the upline may not have even met the IBO who actually did the work. Is that really fair and is that a level playing field? What do some of these uplines do to deserve the lion's share of the bonus you worked to get? Yes, the upline diamond may show the plan in an open meeting, which may help you, but then again, you pay for entrance into that meeting.
Many uplines will talk about dreams and fulfilling your dreams. But if an IBO would stop and think for a moment, you can easily see that you are building the dreams of your upline, and not your own. You receive a tiny portion of the bonus for the volume that you move, and then in addition, if you are on the system, then you are also paying upline in the form of tool purchases for the priviledge of giving them bonuses with your product purchases.
It is why your upline diamonds can parade around on stage with designer suits and show you their fancy cars and mansions and other toys. It is because they are cashing in on your efforts. You are making their dreams come true. Your dedication to moving volume and purchasing standing orders are fulfilling dreams. The upline dreams. Yes, someday you can hope to have your own group of downline to exploit for your own benefit, but unless you are adding members to your group, you will never achieve the kinds of dreams that uplines talk about. In the meantime though, you are definitely helping someone upline achieve their dreams with every function you attend. Ironically, the upline leaders will tell you to never quit, even if they don't know your personal circumstances.
Here's a challenge for IBOs and/or prospects who are being recruited into the Amway business. 100 PV will cost around $300 a month and dedication to the tools system will cost you around $200 a month on average. Would you not be better off simply writing a check to your upline for $100 and not even joining? Would you not be better off staying home and watching television instead of joining? If you read all of the information available on this blog and still decide to join, goo d luck to you, but remember this: Whose dreams are being fulfilled by your participation? Yours or your upline?
Many uplines will talk about dreams and fulfilling your dreams. But if an IBO would stop and think for a moment, you can easily see that you are building the dreams of your upline, and not your own. You receive a tiny portion of the bonus for the volume that you move, and then in addition, if you are on the system, then you are also paying upline in the form of tool purchases for the priviledge of giving them bonuses with your product purchases.
It is why your upline diamonds can parade around on stage with designer suits and show you their fancy cars and mansions and other toys. It is because they are cashing in on your efforts. You are making their dreams come true. Your dedication to moving volume and purchasing standing orders are fulfilling dreams. The upline dreams. Yes, someday you can hope to have your own group of downline to exploit for your own benefit, but unless you are adding members to your group, you will never achieve the kinds of dreams that uplines talk about. In the meantime though, you are definitely helping someone upline achieve their dreams with every function you attend. Ironically, the upline leaders will tell you to never quit, even if they don't know your personal circumstances.
Here's a challenge for IBOs and/or prospects who are being recruited into the Amway business. 100 PV will cost around $300 a month and dedication to the tools system will cost you around $200 a month on average. Would you not be better off simply writing a check to your upline for $100 and not even joining? Would you not be better off staying home and watching television instead of joining? If you read all of the information available on this blog and still decide to join, goo d luck to you, but remember this: Whose dreams are being fulfilled by your participation? Yours or your upline?
Monday, October 26, 2015
Amway Isn't What You Think?
One of the reasons why upline and Amway presentations still manage to get people into the business is because the Amway opportunity is made to sound easy. Sure, the presenter of the plan might mention that it takes work, but prospects walking out of the meetings will get the impression that all they need is six, or that the task of going diamond is very manageable. It isn't until a prospect signs up and gets to work that he or she will find out how difficult it is to build an Amway business. In fact, the business in itself is not mind boggling, but overcoming the reputation issues that Amway has will doom most of the eager new IBOs.
Even seasoned IBOs who have been trained to counter attack people's objections about Amway will struggle when presented with the simple facts that Amway products are not necessarily the greatest and are not necessarily the best value. If this were true, Amway could move much more product simply by marketing these great products and selling them in stores. But since IBOs move and market Amway products for no salary and at their own expense, it's a great deal for Amway. I wonder what Amway sales would be if they did not count sales to IBOs for self consumption? Seems many of these IBOs will loyally buy Amway products while they are building the Amway business but that loyalty seems to fade once the dreams of early retirement and going diamond fades away.
One glaring problem that IBOs seems to ignore is how often platinums and high level IBOs like diamonds fall out of qualification. Yes, Amway has many new platinums, etc, but what about the people who worked their tails off just to end up falling out of qualification a year later? The income stops when your volume stops. There are countless stories of diamonds quitting or leaving Amway. IBOs should do some research and look for answers as to why this is. I think they would not like the answers. They will find that some diamonds are broke, in debt and struggling. In other words, diamonds are like the rest of the world, but have been elevated as special in the Amway world. Do you really think you can live a jetset lifestyle on 100K per year? Many people think $100K is great because they might earn far less, but $100K or $200K is really just a middle class lifestyle. When you factor in taxes, business expenses and medical insurance, etc, a diamond lifestyle is not what they lead you to believe. That income might seem even inadequate if the diamond is in debt because they show off a diamond lifestyle. Behind the smoke and mirrors of the diamond illusion, I think prospects would be shocked at how diamonds really live.
Amway may sound easy but the reality paints a very different picture. Go find out for yourself.
Even seasoned IBOs who have been trained to counter attack people's objections about Amway will struggle when presented with the simple facts that Amway products are not necessarily the greatest and are not necessarily the best value. If this were true, Amway could move much more product simply by marketing these great products and selling them in stores. But since IBOs move and market Amway products for no salary and at their own expense, it's a great deal for Amway. I wonder what Amway sales would be if they did not count sales to IBOs for self consumption? Seems many of these IBOs will loyally buy Amway products while they are building the Amway business but that loyalty seems to fade once the dreams of early retirement and going diamond fades away.
One glaring problem that IBOs seems to ignore is how often platinums and high level IBOs like diamonds fall out of qualification. Yes, Amway has many new platinums, etc, but what about the people who worked their tails off just to end up falling out of qualification a year later? The income stops when your volume stops. There are countless stories of diamonds quitting or leaving Amway. IBOs should do some research and look for answers as to why this is. I think they would not like the answers. They will find that some diamonds are broke, in debt and struggling. In other words, diamonds are like the rest of the world, but have been elevated as special in the Amway world. Do you really think you can live a jetset lifestyle on 100K per year? Many people think $100K is great because they might earn far less, but $100K or $200K is really just a middle class lifestyle. When you factor in taxes, business expenses and medical insurance, etc, a diamond lifestyle is not what they lead you to believe. That income might seem even inadequate if the diamond is in debt because they show off a diamond lifestyle. Behind the smoke and mirrors of the diamond illusion, I think prospects would be shocked at how diamonds really live.
Amway may sound easy but the reality paints a very different picture. Go find out for yourself.
Friday, October 23, 2015
Never Quit!
Never Quit" was one of the things I often heard when I was an IBO. To quit seemed like the kiss of death as an IBO. I believe that the never quit mantra can be useful if the saying was meant to read as never quit trying, or never quit trying to better yourself. But in the Amway business, when uplines talk about never quit, what they mean is never quit doing 100 PV and never quit buying tools. Sometimes a wise business decision is to quit and do something else.
I find it ironic that so many IBOs think of the diamonds on stage as being mentors to them. In fact, these diamonds don't know most of their faithful downline IBOs. They don't know their personal circumstances or whether they are progressing in building their business, thus a blanket "never quit" statement is insincere at best. It seems that the never quit saying is a self serving thought, especially since the upline diamond benefits financially by an IBO staying on board with the Amway and the tools program.
When you stop and think for a moment, your upline benefits financially from almost every aspect of the business. You move 100 PV and you get 3% while somewhere upline, about 28 - 30% bonus gets shared by your sponsor and further uplines. Your voicemail account is profit for upline. Your website profits upline, standing order, book of the month and functions all pour money into your upline's pockets. In fact, it seems that IBOs pay through their teeth for almost every bit of information they receive, regardless of any success in Amway.
If your upline truly had vital information that would make your business grow, why would they want to withhold that information from downline? Maybe your uplines don't truly want your success? Maybe they only want your money? Is that why the "never quit" battle cry is made? Does your upline diamond take the time to get to know as many IBOs as possible on a personal level? Do they know your individual circumstances? Do they truly care about your success? If they did care, how could they stand on a stage and shout "never quit"?
Ironically, many - a - diamond did not take their own advice. Many a diamond has quit in recent years. Makes you wonder why someone would quit after achieving diamond? Makes you wonder why someone would quit when you can "walk the beaches" and continue to collect an income. Maybe this opportunity is not all that you have been led to believe?
I find it ironic that so many IBOs think of the diamonds on stage as being mentors to them. In fact, these diamonds don't know most of their faithful downline IBOs. They don't know their personal circumstances or whether they are progressing in building their business, thus a blanket "never quit" statement is insincere at best. It seems that the never quit saying is a self serving thought, especially since the upline diamond benefits financially by an IBO staying on board with the Amway and the tools program.
When you stop and think for a moment, your upline benefits financially from almost every aspect of the business. You move 100 PV and you get 3% while somewhere upline, about 28 - 30% bonus gets shared by your sponsor and further uplines. Your voicemail account is profit for upline. Your website profits upline, standing order, book of the month and functions all pour money into your upline's pockets. In fact, it seems that IBOs pay through their teeth for almost every bit of information they receive, regardless of any success in Amway.
If your upline truly had vital information that would make your business grow, why would they want to withhold that information from downline? Maybe your uplines don't truly want your success? Maybe they only want your money? Is that why the "never quit" battle cry is made? Does your upline diamond take the time to get to know as many IBOs as possible on a personal level? Do they know your individual circumstances? Do they truly care about your success? If they did care, how could they stand on a stage and shout "never quit"?
Ironically, many - a - diamond did not take their own advice. Many a diamond has quit in recent years. Makes you wonder why someone would quit after achieving diamond? Makes you wonder why someone would quit when you can "walk the beaches" and continue to collect an income. Maybe this opportunity is not all that you have been led to believe?
Thursday, October 22, 2015
Get Out Of Debt?
One of the things that many uplines will talk about with their downline is debt. Many IBOs and prospects join Amway, hoping that Amway will help them eliminate debt, by providing some extra income. What many IBOs find out though, is that they end up more deeply in debt, not because of Amway necessarily, but often because of the pressure to purchase tools and function tickets. While getting out of debt is a good idea, the same upline may advise that person to go deeper in hock to participate in Amway and the functions and tools systems.
Eliminating debt on the surface, is a good thing. However, I believe that many uplines only want IBOs to eliminate debt so they can free up discretionary monies that can be channeled into tool purchases, which uplines profit from. So while the advice seems sound, it still ends up as a self serving piece of advice. If you are an IBO or a prospect, is your upline advising you to eliminate debt and then turning around and telling you to attend "all" functions?
As a WWDB IBO, I heard the mantra about getting rid of debt. It sounded good to me, but I was floored when the same upline told us it was okay to go deeper in hock if it was to further our business, or in other words, to buy more standing orders or to attend functions. I could not understand why it was okay to create more debt, but only to "invest" in your business. If debt is bad, then functions and other tools should be cut as well, until the IBO can reasonably afford to participate in the system. IBOs, in my opinion. should be using profits from the business in order to purchase tools. If there is no net profit, then that IBO needs to decide whether or not the tools are worthy of an investment. Even if an IBO has some profits, the IBOs should determine whether to bank the profit or to channel them towards tool purchases.
Too many IBOs trust their upline and make initial and ongoing purchases of tools, and then continue to do so without seeing tangible results. I believe this is why IBOs are taught to trust and have faith. Or that success is right around the corner. It keeps an IBO going, even in the absence of results. Hopefully a post like this can bring awareness to IBOs and potential IBOs. Good luck to those who disregard this information.
Eliminating debt on the surface, is a good thing. However, I believe that many uplines only want IBOs to eliminate debt so they can free up discretionary monies that can be channeled into tool purchases, which uplines profit from. So while the advice seems sound, it still ends up as a self serving piece of advice. If you are an IBO or a prospect, is your upline advising you to eliminate debt and then turning around and telling you to attend "all" functions?
As a WWDB IBO, I heard the mantra about getting rid of debt. It sounded good to me, but I was floored when the same upline told us it was okay to go deeper in hock if it was to further our business, or in other words, to buy more standing orders or to attend functions. I could not understand why it was okay to create more debt, but only to "invest" in your business. If debt is bad, then functions and other tools should be cut as well, until the IBO can reasonably afford to participate in the system. IBOs, in my opinion. should be using profits from the business in order to purchase tools. If there is no net profit, then that IBO needs to decide whether or not the tools are worthy of an investment. Even if an IBO has some profits, the IBOs should determine whether to bank the profit or to channel them towards tool purchases.
Too many IBOs trust their upline and make initial and ongoing purchases of tools, and then continue to do so without seeing tangible results. I believe this is why IBOs are taught to trust and have faith. Or that success is right around the corner. It keeps an IBO going, even in the absence of results. Hopefully a post like this can bring awareness to IBOs and potential IBOs. Good luck to those who disregard this information.
Wednesday, October 21, 2015
Is Amway A Viable Business?
Over the years I have been debating with Amway supporters, I cannot see what is so great about the Amway opportunity. Are some of these Amway defenders that stupid or dense that they truly believe that a business where one out of a few hundred people might make a profit and most of the remaining IBOs will lose money is a good opportunity? I'm not talking about people who sign up and "do nothing". Many IBOs sign up and put in a great deal of time, effort and money, only to find out that the system simply does not work (especially in the US) and they make a business decision to quit and/or to do something else.
Of course there are some people who make money in Amway. If nobody made money, then the opportunity would cease to exist. But it is basically exploitation of the downline that accounts for upline success. Certain upline make most of their income from their downline's PV volume, and on tool purchases. I mean even a lottery has winners. Even ponzi schemes and other questionable opportunties have some winners. This is not to suggest that Amway in not legal. Amway is legal on paper, but the way the opportunity is set up, those who profit, primarily do so at the expense of their downline.
There are no groups that I know of where all the IBOs can win and earn a profit. I would guess that there might be a few rogue groups who only focus on retail sales, and while these groups can be profitable as a group, they are few and far between. This is because most IBOs fall under an LOS such as WWDB, BWW, LTD or N21, and these groups all seemingly focus on recruiting of new IBOs. Yes, they may sprinkle in some suggeestions about selling goods, but generally speaking, their "training" materials consist of motivation speeches, feel good stories (whether true or not), and the theme of never quitting while continuing to purchase more tools.
Some upline have the nerve to start teaching downline that their Amway business is not about making money, but to save your marriage, make you a nicer person, or some other diversion to make you forget that you are losing money month after month after month. Some groups even mix in religion and politics into their functions and meetings. As far as I can see, the typical business building IBO signs up, gets some of the tools and attends a few functions, and finds that the products are hard to sell because they are not priced competetively with other retailers, and that a damaged reputation is nearly impossible to overcome. These IBOs realize they are not going anywhere, and they walk away, chalking up the losses as a life lesson. But apparently, many uplines who lied and deceived in the past are continuing to do so today, often just revising history for their benefit (i.e. lying about making any profit on tools).
Many IBOs, prospects, information seekers and critics read this blog. My question is very simple. What is so great about the Amway opportunity? For most, it is just a bad use of time and money. While some may exist, I don't know of a single person who "did the work once" and sat back collecting barrels of Amway money while sipping Mai Tais on the beaches of Jamaica. I see crown ambassadors working as hard today as they did many years ago. Diamonds losing homes to forclosures, a prominent diamond in bankruptcy proceedings, and a hoard of WWDB diamonds apparently selling off mansions that they allegedly paid for in cash. (It is quite possible that their lifestyles are simply not sustainable).
Where is the benefit in the business for the typical IBO? Just as there are some diamonds, there are lottery winners. Displaying a lottery winner doesn't make it prudent to spend your money on lottery tickets. Displaying a diamond's lifestyle doesn't make Amway a good opportunity. While Amway is a business and not a game of chance, the results of either, sadly are eerily similar - that is a few winners and millions of non winners.
What is so great about the Amway opportunity? I don't see it.
Of course there are some people who make money in Amway. If nobody made money, then the opportunity would cease to exist. But it is basically exploitation of the downline that accounts for upline success. Certain upline make most of their income from their downline's PV volume, and on tool purchases. I mean even a lottery has winners. Even ponzi schemes and other questionable opportunties have some winners. This is not to suggest that Amway in not legal. Amway is legal on paper, but the way the opportunity is set up, those who profit, primarily do so at the expense of their downline.
There are no groups that I know of where all the IBOs can win and earn a profit. I would guess that there might be a few rogue groups who only focus on retail sales, and while these groups can be profitable as a group, they are few and far between. This is because most IBOs fall under an LOS such as WWDB, BWW, LTD or N21, and these groups all seemingly focus on recruiting of new IBOs. Yes, they may sprinkle in some suggeestions about selling goods, but generally speaking, their "training" materials consist of motivation speeches, feel good stories (whether true or not), and the theme of never quitting while continuing to purchase more tools.
Some upline have the nerve to start teaching downline that their Amway business is not about making money, but to save your marriage, make you a nicer person, or some other diversion to make you forget that you are losing money month after month after month. Some groups even mix in religion and politics into their functions and meetings. As far as I can see, the typical business building IBO signs up, gets some of the tools and attends a few functions, and finds that the products are hard to sell because they are not priced competetively with other retailers, and that a damaged reputation is nearly impossible to overcome. These IBOs realize they are not going anywhere, and they walk away, chalking up the losses as a life lesson. But apparently, many uplines who lied and deceived in the past are continuing to do so today, often just revising history for their benefit (i.e. lying about making any profit on tools).
Many IBOs, prospects, information seekers and critics read this blog. My question is very simple. What is so great about the Amway opportunity? For most, it is just a bad use of time and money. While some may exist, I don't know of a single person who "did the work once" and sat back collecting barrels of Amway money while sipping Mai Tais on the beaches of Jamaica. I see crown ambassadors working as hard today as they did many years ago. Diamonds losing homes to forclosures, a prominent diamond in bankruptcy proceedings, and a hoard of WWDB diamonds apparently selling off mansions that they allegedly paid for in cash. (It is quite possible that their lifestyles are simply not sustainable).
Where is the benefit in the business for the typical IBO? Just as there are some diamonds, there are lottery winners. Displaying a lottery winner doesn't make it prudent to spend your money on lottery tickets. Displaying a diamond's lifestyle doesn't make Amway a good opportunity. While Amway is a business and not a game of chance, the results of either, sadly are eerily similar - that is a few winners and millions of non winners.
What is so great about the Amway opportunity? I don't see it.
Monday, October 19, 2015
Your Amway Coach?
In the Amway business, many active IBOs are advised to trust upline. To think of upline as a coach or a mentor. These upline mentors or coaches are supposed to have your best interest at heart and they will guide you to success if only you will be open to learning. Many uplines, including my former uplines used to coin the term "copy" or duplicate. If you can do that you will be successful. Even the simplest of people can copy. The upline may crack a joke about getting thru school by copying. Thus, many IBOs follow exactly what their upline advises them to do.
But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds, and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose?
Imagine hiring a guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, perhaps an expert. So if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore.
But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for up to 20 years or more in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure there are many new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground in North America based on sales. One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore, although I have heard that some of these are still active.
Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like some succeed in spite of the system, not because of.
The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond?
But then uplines turn the responsibility away from themselves. Many Amway defenders will also claim that downline should not simply follow the advice of upline. They may make a ridiculous claim that standing orders and functions contain advice that must be discerned. That information is like a buffet. You pick and choose what you need and discard the rest. If you are a new IBO or prospect, let me tell you that is a load of guano (crap) that is being heaped on you. Your upline is touted as having experience and wisdom in the Amway business, which is why you are paying good money for voicemail, books, cds, and functions. So why would their advice be something you pick and choose? How would a new IBO know what to pick and choose?
Imagine hiring a guide for a trek in the wilderness. The guide is supposed to be an experienced outdoorsman, perhaps an expert. So if he recommends that you eat certain plants or fruits, you trust that he is going to guide you right. Imagine eating something that made you sick to your stomach, only to have the guide tell you that he just points out plants and fruits and you have to discern which is good for you and which is not. You would fire the guide and tell everyone you know not to use that guide anymore.
But here we have these "systems" such as Network 21, WWDB or BWW that have been "guiding" IBOs for up to 20 years or more in some cases, and the number of diamonds are negligible. Sure there are many new platinums, but many tool consuming platinums have been found to be losing money or making very little money for their efforts. What's more, it would appear that Amway is losing ground in North America based on sales. One can reasonably guess that any new platinums that break are simply replacing the volume for a platinum that no longer exists or a platinum that no longer qualifies. My former upline diamond appears to have all new qualifying platinums from the time I was in the business and here's the kicker. My former diamond had 6 downline rubies. As far as I know, none of these rubies are qualified as platinum anymore, although I have heard that some of these are still active.
Uplines also program their downline to take responsibility for the failure. Thus you have IBOs who did everything that was asked of them, only to fail. Yet these IBOs often blame themselves for their failure. It is my opinion that former IBOs who did everything asked of them only to fail should file a formal complaint against their LOS with the better business bureau. Amway defenders like to think that a lack of formal complaints means that the system works when clearly, there is no unbiased substantial evidence to suggest that the system works. It looks like some succeed in spite of the system, not because of.
The catch in all this is uplines skirting responsibility for the outcomes of those they "mentor" and profit from. IBOs should ask if upline really cared about their success, why do you have to pay for any help that you receive from your upline diamond?
Friday, October 16, 2015
A Diamond Is Forever?
I've seen some interesting discussion recently about how a diamond pin is like winning a gold medal. That you don't get it taken away from you later even if you don't qualify anymore. The discussion also flowed as to where they mentioned that former US President Jimmy Carter is still addressed as Mr. President. Or that someone with a superbowl ring can be addressed as a superbowl champion. While I agree with that to some degree, I think the issue of diamond or former diamond is significant and different from former President Carter or a former Superbowl Champion. Terry Bradshaw or Joe Montana don't parade around as if they just won the superbowl last year.
The diamond pin is a significant achievement for sure. Seems that recently, it's even harder to achieve in North America. I don't know of more than a few new diamonds emerging in the last ten years or so in the US. But if say a diamond qualified in 1988 and never qualified again, how would you as an IBO feel about paying to see this diamond speak function after function and how many would continue to buy standing orders from a guy who may have achieved diamond 20 years ago and never again? Would the audiences be "fired up" to see these speakers? I find this ironic also, because many Amway defenders like to criticize Amway critics for having an outdated experience. Well, conversely, a one time diamond would be basically the same thing. If not then Joecool should command the respect of a 4000 PV Eagle since that was my highest level.
I actually have no issue with Amway allowing the achiever to carry their highest pin as a recognized achievement, but I do believe that those who use their former pin status to exploit and profit from new IBOs and prospects should be stopped. I know I would not have been so excited attending a function where the keynote speaker went diamond for 6 months a decade ago and was no longer qualified. Else, by upline's definition, he will teach me to go diamond and fall apart? I believe there are fewer North American diamonds now than ten years ago. Some diamonds resigned and some outright quit. So much for residual/passive income. Obviously if these things existed, then nobody would quit or walk away from residual income.
BTW, a recent article on an Amway Corporate website says this about passive income:
"Passive income is a term we do not permit distributors to use and it’s not a term the Corporation uses. In our business, there is no such thing as doing no work, and expecting money to still come in.” Link:
http://blogs.amway.com/answers/2010/11/02/unwelcome-words/#comments
Still think there's a free ride at the end of the tunnel?
The diamond pin is a significant achievement for sure. Seems that recently, it's even harder to achieve in North America. I don't know of more than a few new diamonds emerging in the last ten years or so in the US. But if say a diamond qualified in 1988 and never qualified again, how would you as an IBO feel about paying to see this diamond speak function after function and how many would continue to buy standing orders from a guy who may have achieved diamond 20 years ago and never again? Would the audiences be "fired up" to see these speakers? I find this ironic also, because many Amway defenders like to criticize Amway critics for having an outdated experience. Well, conversely, a one time diamond would be basically the same thing. If not then Joecool should command the respect of a 4000 PV Eagle since that was my highest level.
I actually have no issue with Amway allowing the achiever to carry their highest pin as a recognized achievement, but I do believe that those who use their former pin status to exploit and profit from new IBOs and prospects should be stopped. I know I would not have been so excited attending a function where the keynote speaker went diamond for 6 months a decade ago and was no longer qualified. Else, by upline's definition, he will teach me to go diamond and fall apart? I believe there are fewer North American diamonds now than ten years ago. Some diamonds resigned and some outright quit. So much for residual/passive income. Obviously if these things existed, then nobody would quit or walk away from residual income.
BTW, a recent article on an Amway Corporate website says this about passive income:
"Passive income is a term we do not permit distributors to use and it’s not a term the Corporation uses. In our business, there is no such thing as doing no work, and expecting money to still come in.” Link:
http://blogs.amway.com/answers/2010/11/02/unwelcome-words/#comments
Still think there's a free ride at the end of the tunnel?
Thursday, October 15, 2015
Upline Credentials?
I recently read a comment from an Amway zealot. She mentions that someone's credentials must be considered when looking at information that is presented. I will comment that showing me a sports car or a fancy suit is not proof of financial success. Strange how they question credentials of everyone except their beloved leaders, some of whom told bold faced lies in the past.
I find this subject ironic because not one single upline leader, as far as I know, has ever supplied bonafide credentials about themselves. The audience assumes that the person on stage has high credentials, but do they really? Certainly, if someone is wearing a diamond pin for example, that this person has at least achieved the diamond level as recognized by Amway, but the level may not be current, and the level doesn't indicate the kind of income this person earns from Amway. Also, the diamond pin is one that is like a lifetime achievement, meaning you could have been diamond for 6 months in 1982 and never qualified again, but you can still wear the pin as you are still recognized as having achieved diamond status. I guess Joecool should be refered to as 4000 PV if that is the case.
What many people wrongly assume is that the diamonds buy homes and cars in cash, that they wake up at noon every day and participate in leisure activities all day while the cash rolls in. I have heard from some new IBOs, that their upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than a critic makes in a whole year at a job. That IBO became quiet when some critics offered to take that bet. I doubt that any diamonds would take that bet.
But the truth of the matter is that as far as I know, only former diamonds have come clean about their Amway income. They are the only ones who spoke of credentials and accomplishments. Even critics of Amway will often openly speak about their experiences and achieved levels in the business. In the REAL business world, showing business tax returns and credentials are a normal part of doing business. It appears that only in the world of Amway is the supply of credentials and financial statements a big secret. Now I am not suggesting that IBOs or upline leaders should disclose their financials to the entire world, but certainly prospects and some downline should be able to see what their upline is doing financially, especially if that is the basis for purchasing their standing orders and function tickets. And I refer to business (Amway and Tools) income and expenses only, not from other personal sources.
I believe that IBOs and upline leaders do not disclose that information because it would not be beneficial to them. If it were, they would likely publish it freely, just as they flash around copies of checks. IBOs and prospects should take this to heart and ask upline the tough questions
I find this subject ironic because not one single upline leader, as far as I know, has ever supplied bonafide credentials about themselves. The audience assumes that the person on stage has high credentials, but do they really? Certainly, if someone is wearing a diamond pin for example, that this person has at least achieved the diamond level as recognized by Amway, but the level may not be current, and the level doesn't indicate the kind of income this person earns from Amway. Also, the diamond pin is one that is like a lifetime achievement, meaning you could have been diamond for 6 months in 1982 and never qualified again, but you can still wear the pin as you are still recognized as having achieved diamond status. I guess Joecool should be refered to as 4000 PV if that is the case.
What many people wrongly assume is that the diamonds buy homes and cars in cash, that they wake up at noon every day and participate in leisure activities all day while the cash rolls in. I have heard from some new IBOs, that their upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than a critic makes in a whole year at a job. That IBO became quiet when some critics offered to take that bet. I doubt that any diamonds would take that bet.
But the truth of the matter is that as far as I know, only former diamonds have come clean about their Amway income. They are the only ones who spoke of credentials and accomplishments. Even critics of Amway will often openly speak about their experiences and achieved levels in the business. In the REAL business world, showing business tax returns and credentials are a normal part of doing business. It appears that only in the world of Amway is the supply of credentials and financial statements a big secret. Now I am not suggesting that IBOs or upline leaders should disclose their financials to the entire world, but certainly prospects and some downline should be able to see what their upline is doing financially, especially if that is the basis for purchasing their standing orders and function tickets. And I refer to business (Amway and Tools) income and expenses only, not from other personal sources.
I believe that IBOs and upline leaders do not disclose that information because it would not be beneficial to them. If it were, they would likely publish it freely, just as they flash around copies of checks. IBOs and prospects should take this to heart and ask upline the tough questions
Tuesday, October 13, 2015
Amway Sounds "Doable"
One of the reasons why upline and Amway presentations still manage to get people into the business is because the Amway opportunity is made to sound easy. Sure, the presenter of the plan might mention that it takes work, but prospects walking out of the meetings will get the impression that all they need is six, or that the task of going diamond is very manageable. It isn't until a prospect signs up and gets to work that he or she will find out how difficult it is to build an Amway business. In fact, the business in itself is not mind boggling, but overcoming the reputation issues that Amway has will doom most of the eager new IBOs. What's sad is so many IBOs lose money while in the process of discovering this for themselves.
Even seasoned IBOs who have been trained to counter attack people's objections about Amway will struggle when presented with the simple facts that Amway products are not necessarily the greatest and are not necessarily the best value. If this were true, Amway could move much more product simply by marketing these great products and selling them in stores. But since IBOs move and market Amway products for no salary and at their own expense, it's a great deal for Amway. I wonder what Amway sales would be if they did not count sales to IBOs for self consumption? Seems many of these IBOs will loyally buy Amway products while they are building the Amway business but that loyalty seems to fade once the dreams of early retirement and going diamond fades away. Amway's attrition rate seems to back up this theory. If not, Amway's sales would be climbing each year as IBOs regularly drop out of the business.
One glaring problem that IBOs seems to ignore is how often platinums and high level IBOs like diamonds fall out of qualification. Yes, Amway has many new platinums, etc, but what about the people who worked their tails off just to end up falling out of qualification a year later? The income stops when your volume stops. There are countless stories of diamonds quitting or leaving Amway. IBOs should do some research and look for answers as to why this is. I think they would not like the answers. They will find that some diamonds are broke, in debt and struggling. In other words, diamonds are like the rest of the world, but have been elevated as special in the Amway world. Do you really think you can live a jetset lifestyle on 100K per year? Many people think $100K is great because they might earn far less, but $100K or $200K is really just a middle class lifestyle, and maybe less if the diamond is in debt because they show off a diamond lifestyle. Behind the smoke and mirrors of the diamond illusion, I think prospects would be shocked at how diamonds really live.
Amway may sound easy but the reality paints a very different picture. Go find out for yourself.
Even seasoned IBOs who have been trained to counter attack people's objections about Amway will struggle when presented with the simple facts that Amway products are not necessarily the greatest and are not necessarily the best value. If this were true, Amway could move much more product simply by marketing these great products and selling them in stores. But since IBOs move and market Amway products for no salary and at their own expense, it's a great deal for Amway. I wonder what Amway sales would be if they did not count sales to IBOs for self consumption? Seems many of these IBOs will loyally buy Amway products while they are building the Amway business but that loyalty seems to fade once the dreams of early retirement and going diamond fades away. Amway's attrition rate seems to back up this theory. If not, Amway's sales would be climbing each year as IBOs regularly drop out of the business.
One glaring problem that IBOs seems to ignore is how often platinums and high level IBOs like diamonds fall out of qualification. Yes, Amway has many new platinums, etc, but what about the people who worked their tails off just to end up falling out of qualification a year later? The income stops when your volume stops. There are countless stories of diamonds quitting or leaving Amway. IBOs should do some research and look for answers as to why this is. I think they would not like the answers. They will find that some diamonds are broke, in debt and struggling. In other words, diamonds are like the rest of the world, but have been elevated as special in the Amway world. Do you really think you can live a jetset lifestyle on 100K per year? Many people think $100K is great because they might earn far less, but $100K or $200K is really just a middle class lifestyle, and maybe less if the diamond is in debt because they show off a diamond lifestyle. Behind the smoke and mirrors of the diamond illusion, I think prospects would be shocked at how diamonds really live.
Amway may sound easy but the reality paints a very different picture. Go find out for yourself.
Monday, October 12, 2015
Do Amway IBOs Actually Sell Stuff?
I've been debating with some IBOs about retail sales to customers. While many IBOs claim to have real customers and to teach retail, the reality seems to paint a different picture. Even an Amway corporate blogger at one time wrote a piece stating that sales to non IBOs were 3.4% of Amway (Quixtar) sales a few years back. Apologists will say that many IBOs are actually customers who only buy stuff and do not build the business. While there might be some IBO customers, I highly doubt that the majority of IBOs are paying renewal fees just to buy soap and overpriced vitamins.
I know some groups have their schtick down. They will say they "teach" their IBOs to have sales to about 20 customers which gives them a monthly income and allows them to qualify for a PV bonus. It certainly sounds great, but I would bet that IBOs with 20 actual regular customers are about as common as a founder's diamond. In many groups, the IBOs are taught to "buy from themselves" primarily. Thus the income generated for the diamonds simply comes out of the pockets of their downline IBOs. Sadly, "serious" IBOs often wind up paying their upline (via tool sales) to learn that this sham is a good idea.
I can prove right here that IBOs are not focused on selling products. The focus is on selling the opportunity. How can I prove it? Very simple. Every single time I have seen or heard about the Amway business, there was talk about the economy, inflation, etc. The speaker talks about his easy lifestyle, and how he made it bbig by capitalizing on an opportunity, the Amway oportunity. Then the 6-4-2 plan or some similar variation is shown to the audience. It is shown as "simple", "reasonable" and "doable". The plan is about making money, typically six figures at the diamond level and a decent income at the platinum level. There is little mention about having to sell products, and little or no mention about the actual products that Amway carries. The hype in the meetings is to sell the opportunity. Sure, after the plan is over, a prospect might be given some samples and such, but the emphasis is still on the business opportunity. The products are usually a side note in the presentation.
While IBOs might talk a good game about selling products, the reality is that many active IBOs have very few actual customers. It is my informed opinion that even the few real customers are often sympathetic friends and family of the IBO, rather then people who are genuinely seeking Amway good and services. I wonder if anyone in Amway has ever "shown the plan" by starting out with product presentations and samples? When you really think about it, unless the business has real customers, all you are doing is exploiting those you sponsor for their personal consumption, which might benefit your business a bit, but won't benefit your downline unless they can dupe others into joining them.
So take a real look at your business. Are you actually selling goods to outside customers are are you engaged in a personal consumption game? My undedrstanding is that an IBO does not qualify for a bonus without sales to actual customers. Are you legit or not?
I know some groups have their schtick down. They will say they "teach" their IBOs to have sales to about 20 customers which gives them a monthly income and allows them to qualify for a PV bonus. It certainly sounds great, but I would bet that IBOs with 20 actual regular customers are about as common as a founder's diamond. In many groups, the IBOs are taught to "buy from themselves" primarily. Thus the income generated for the diamonds simply comes out of the pockets of their downline IBOs. Sadly, "serious" IBOs often wind up paying their upline (via tool sales) to learn that this sham is a good idea.
I can prove right here that IBOs are not focused on selling products. The focus is on selling the opportunity. How can I prove it? Very simple. Every single time I have seen or heard about the Amway business, there was talk about the economy, inflation, etc. The speaker talks about his easy lifestyle, and how he made it bbig by capitalizing on an opportunity, the Amway oportunity. Then the 6-4-2 plan or some similar variation is shown to the audience. It is shown as "simple", "reasonable" and "doable". The plan is about making money, typically six figures at the diamond level and a decent income at the platinum level. There is little mention about having to sell products, and little or no mention about the actual products that Amway carries. The hype in the meetings is to sell the opportunity. Sure, after the plan is over, a prospect might be given some samples and such, but the emphasis is still on the business opportunity. The products are usually a side note in the presentation.
While IBOs might talk a good game about selling products, the reality is that many active IBOs have very few actual customers. It is my informed opinion that even the few real customers are often sympathetic friends and family of the IBO, rather then people who are genuinely seeking Amway good and services. I wonder if anyone in Amway has ever "shown the plan" by starting out with product presentations and samples? When you really think about it, unless the business has real customers, all you are doing is exploiting those you sponsor for their personal consumption, which might benefit your business a bit, but won't benefit your downline unless they can dupe others into joining them.
So take a real look at your business. Are you actually selling goods to outside customers are are you engaged in a personal consumption game? My undedrstanding is that an IBO does not qualify for a bonus without sales to actual customers. Are you legit or not?
Thursday, October 8, 2015
IBOs Or Glorified Amway Customers?
I've been debating with others about the concept of customers. Amway's most prolific defender argues that IBOs are customers and holds the position that there are alot of people who register with Amway simply to be customers. Now I don't know how anyone can possibly make that determination, but regardless of whether it's true or not, these folks are still considered IBOs. I don't want to debate the legal ramifications about the 1979 FTC ruling and the 70& rule, although the spirit of the rule was to prevent IBOs from buying their bonus. Also, it will be interesting to see how the FTC action against VEMMA will play out. In this case, the FTC said Vemma's distributors only sell 22% of their products to people who are actual customers. This was part of the basis for the recent shut down.
IBOFB/Insider/Icerat/David Steadson apparently contends that IBOs who purchase and then resell to downline are meeting the sales requirements and the downline are customers. Okay, let's go with that. But wait, IBOs do not buy and then resell to their downline. IBOs order directly from Amway do they not? If IBOs order directly from Amway, their upline gets some volume credit for downline purchases but the upline doesn't buy and then resell anything to downline. So are IBOs actually making any sales to non IBOs, save for sympathetic friends and family?
If in fact, IBOs are not selling their goods, and are primarily self consuming them, it means that most of the upline bonus is basically generated from the pockets of the downline. I believe the tools business is a pyramid as only IBOs are buying standing orders and attending functions. The lack of selling Amway products to the public would put the Amway business opportunity in pretty much the same category. I wonder what the FTC would rule today if that were the case? I wonder what the FTC would rule on the tools systems as it is today?
Something to think seriously about. If you are an Amway business owner, and you are selling little or nothing, where do you think your bonus comes from? It either comes from your own pockets, or it comes from taking advantage of your downline, who then pony up a portion of your bonus from their pockets. In a system such as this, the only way to maximize your bonus is to recruit as many downline as possible. Because the more people you can leverage, the more bonus you can get. The problem with this system is that people realize they aren't making money, and that paying in some cases, ridiculous high prices for "prestigious" soap and vitamins is not worth it, and they quit. When these folks lose their Amway dream of mansions and jets, they somehow lose their desire to keep making purchases.
If former IBOs kept on buying Amway goods, then Amway sales would climb pretty much every year as the former IBO's purchases coupled with current IBO purchases should keep going up, not down. But that's not really the case is it? In what business can the employees or company owners be the primary customers and prosper. The answer is none and Amway is not an exception.
IBOFB/Insider/Icerat/David Steadson apparently contends that IBOs who purchase and then resell to downline are meeting the sales requirements and the downline are customers. Okay, let's go with that. But wait, IBOs do not buy and then resell to their downline. IBOs order directly from Amway do they not? If IBOs order directly from Amway, their upline gets some volume credit for downline purchases but the upline doesn't buy and then resell anything to downline. So are IBOs actually making any sales to non IBOs, save for sympathetic friends and family?
If in fact, IBOs are not selling their goods, and are primarily self consuming them, it means that most of the upline bonus is basically generated from the pockets of the downline. I believe the tools business is a pyramid as only IBOs are buying standing orders and attending functions. The lack of selling Amway products to the public would put the Amway business opportunity in pretty much the same category. I wonder what the FTC would rule today if that were the case? I wonder what the FTC would rule on the tools systems as it is today?
Something to think seriously about. If you are an Amway business owner, and you are selling little or nothing, where do you think your bonus comes from? It either comes from your own pockets, or it comes from taking advantage of your downline, who then pony up a portion of your bonus from their pockets. In a system such as this, the only way to maximize your bonus is to recruit as many downline as possible. Because the more people you can leverage, the more bonus you can get. The problem with this system is that people realize they aren't making money, and that paying in some cases, ridiculous high prices for "prestigious" soap and vitamins is not worth it, and they quit. When these folks lose their Amway dream of mansions and jets, they somehow lose their desire to keep making purchases.
If former IBOs kept on buying Amway goods, then Amway sales would climb pretty much every year as the former IBO's purchases coupled with current IBO purchases should keep going up, not down. But that's not really the case is it? In what business can the employees or company owners be the primary customers and prosper. The answer is none and Amway is not an exception.
Wednesday, October 7, 2015
The Real Amway Business?
I have been reading some ongoing debates about whether the system income for higher pins is more than their Amway bonuses. I believe the systems such as BWW, WWDB, N21 or LTD, does generate more profit for upline than the sale of Amway products. How the system income is divided though, is still a mystery as it doesn't appear that there are bonafide written contracts explaining how tools income is split up among the higher pins. There is also the debate of whether diamonds themselves or their "corporations" receive the profit, which is laughable as a defense.
But it's very easy to determine that more income is made from the system than from Amway. If you move $100 worth of Amway products, Amway will pay about $33 back in the form of bonuses. These bonuses will be split among the Amway IBOs (middlemen), depending on your level. On the other hand, if your group bought say 20 cds at $5.00each, the system will profit about $90 as cds cost about 50 cents each to produce in bulk. Some Amway apologists will cite the fact that some groups sell cds for $2.50 or $3.00. While this is true, there is a "member's fee" which must be paid. And when you add in the member's fee, the profit for the system is the same or possibly higher! Even when you factor in the system employees, you can easily see the math and determine where the real money is made.
If you buy a major function ticket for $125, the cost of that function might be in the neighborhood of $25 to $30 per attendee, so the system may generate $100 profit on a $125 sale. I believe the smaller functions such as open meetings, books and voicemail have smaller profit margins, but still overall, it's easy to conclude that the profit from the system is greater than profits generated by moving Amway products. I might add that the sales on these functions are often made in cash, thus who knows if the diamonds are even paying the IRS taxes on these sales.
The only question is how much each individual earns. I have "heard" that platinums get a discount on the sale of standing orders and cds, but I have never heard of a platinum sharing any profit for functions, voicemail, or any of the other materials. This is puzzling to me as I believe the platinums do the most work in the system, helping downlines.
So for the lower level IBOs, if you move $300 in Amway sales (Approximately 100 PV), you will receive about $10 or 3% while upline enjoys the rest of the $90+ in bonuses from Amway. And then when you purchase and move tools volume, you receive nothing and some of your uplines enjoy all of the profit. While I don't see any problem in upline making a profit for selling training materials, I see a problem in the fact that the tools don't work. So few IBOs progress to levels where an actual profit is earned that the use of tools cannot be justified. Amway supporters will point out the new platinums emerging each year, but do not mention the platinums who do not re-qualify.
Based on my observations, I can only conclude (quite easily) that there is substantially more profit from the sale of support materials for upline to enjoy, and I can also conclude that the support materials are ineffective in training downline IBOs so they can progress to higher levels of the business. But as PT Barnum once said, a sucker is born every minute.
But it's very easy to determine that more income is made from the system than from Amway. If you move $100 worth of Amway products, Amway will pay about $33 back in the form of bonuses. These bonuses will be split among the Amway IBOs (middlemen), depending on your level. On the other hand, if your group bought say 20 cds at $5.00each, the system will profit about $90 as cds cost about 50 cents each to produce in bulk. Some Amway apologists will cite the fact that some groups sell cds for $2.50 or $3.00. While this is true, there is a "member's fee" which must be paid. And when you add in the member's fee, the profit for the system is the same or possibly higher! Even when you factor in the system employees, you can easily see the math and determine where the real money is made.
If you buy a major function ticket for $125, the cost of that function might be in the neighborhood of $25 to $30 per attendee, so the system may generate $100 profit on a $125 sale. I believe the smaller functions such as open meetings, books and voicemail have smaller profit margins, but still overall, it's easy to conclude that the profit from the system is greater than profits generated by moving Amway products. I might add that the sales on these functions are often made in cash, thus who knows if the diamonds are even paying the IRS taxes on these sales.
The only question is how much each individual earns. I have "heard" that platinums get a discount on the sale of standing orders and cds, but I have never heard of a platinum sharing any profit for functions, voicemail, or any of the other materials. This is puzzling to me as I believe the platinums do the most work in the system, helping downlines.
So for the lower level IBOs, if you move $300 in Amway sales (Approximately 100 PV), you will receive about $10 or 3% while upline enjoys the rest of the $90+ in bonuses from Amway. And then when you purchase and move tools volume, you receive nothing and some of your uplines enjoy all of the profit. While I don't see any problem in upline making a profit for selling training materials, I see a problem in the fact that the tools don't work. So few IBOs progress to levels where an actual profit is earned that the use of tools cannot be justified. Amway supporters will point out the new platinums emerging each year, but do not mention the platinums who do not re-qualify.
Based on my observations, I can only conclude (quite easily) that there is substantially more profit from the sale of support materials for upline to enjoy, and I can also conclude that the support materials are ineffective in training downline IBOs so they can progress to higher levels of the business. But as PT Barnum once said, a sucker is born every minute.
Monday, October 5, 2015
Amway IBO Excuses?
I've been a blogger now for a number of years. I've debated with Amway apologists and they ultimately resort to excuses and/or personal attacks when they run out of defenses. Food for thought, when you have to make excuses about why your opportunity isn't a scam or a pyramid scheme, that should already make you stop and think for a minute. The easy excuse is to say that "my group isn't like that". Yet I see testimonies and statements that indicate to me that things have not changed, even in all the years since I left the Amway business myself.
Even the product's prices need to be justified. That there is concentration or other factors that really make Amway stuff a better value. Strange how that better value doesn't seem to translate further once an IBO realizes that there is no residual income at the end of the rainbow. Many IBOs don't seem to mind paying for Amway stuff when they believe that they will one day walk the beaches of the world while more money than they can count will keep rolling in. When the dream fades, so does the desire to purchase these awesome products. If not, with tens of millions of former IBOs, Amway sales should be through the roof after all these years. But it hasn't. Although Amway recently reported an increase in north american sales, that wasn't the case in the last 10 years. Amway apologists even have excuses about why that is the case.
Amway also reported recently, that they have updated their average IBO income. While it is still miserable, it has gone up, although a clear explanation as to how and why they calculated the "average income" was not apparently given. So the debate continues. Critics analyzing and predicting how and why, and Amway apologists making excuses and justifying their position. Why not just be transparent and end the debate once and for all? I think most people know the answer. The bottom line for most is whether or not they make a net profit. For the vast majority of IBOs, especially the ones on the system, the answer is a net loss. It is predictable and easy to conclude. The 6-4-2 or any other version of the compensation plan clearly shows that very few people can make any decent money. If a platinum IBO typically has 100 or more IBOs, that is your answer there. It should be noted that a platinum might not even be very profitable if they are sold out on buying system tools.
So IBOs and Amway defenders, are you making money (net profit)? Or are you just making excuses?
Even the product's prices need to be justified. That there is concentration or other factors that really make Amway stuff a better value. Strange how that better value doesn't seem to translate further once an IBO realizes that there is no residual income at the end of the rainbow. Many IBOs don't seem to mind paying for Amway stuff when they believe that they will one day walk the beaches of the world while more money than they can count will keep rolling in. When the dream fades, so does the desire to purchase these awesome products. If not, with tens of millions of former IBOs, Amway sales should be through the roof after all these years. But it hasn't. Although Amway recently reported an increase in north american sales, that wasn't the case in the last 10 years. Amway apologists even have excuses about why that is the case.
Amway also reported recently, that they have updated their average IBO income. While it is still miserable, it has gone up, although a clear explanation as to how and why they calculated the "average income" was not apparently given. So the debate continues. Critics analyzing and predicting how and why, and Amway apologists making excuses and justifying their position. Why not just be transparent and end the debate once and for all? I think most people know the answer. The bottom line for most is whether or not they make a net profit. For the vast majority of IBOs, especially the ones on the system, the answer is a net loss. It is predictable and easy to conclude. The 6-4-2 or any other version of the compensation plan clearly shows that very few people can make any decent money. If a platinum IBO typically has 100 or more IBOs, that is your answer there. It should be noted that a platinum might not even be very profitable if they are sold out on buying system tools.
So IBOs and Amway defenders, are you making money (net profit)? Or are you just making excuses?
Friday, October 2, 2015
Whose Best Interest Is Served?
The really insidious part about some of the LOS leaders, such as the ones I had in WWDB, is that they apparently are cutthroat ruthless businessmen with nice suits, and disguised as your mentors and friends. They get you to trust them, and they will tell you that they have your best interest at heart, or that they would never purposely lead you astray. On the surface, you may think this is true, but look at their actions and you can easily discern that some of these uplines are absolutely ruthless businessmen who would take every cent from you if they could. I was in WWDB and I have good reasons to believe that they are still doing this, based on a WWDB IBO blog. On this blog, I see all the same teachings today, that I heard as an IBO and some of the same claims such as buying homes in cash. It's scary.
They may even claim moral superiority such as using religion as a basis for building the business. I heard some leaders say "Amway is a God pleasing business". Really? God likes lying and exploiting others? I would beg to differ. They might tell you lies such as Amway and/or WWDB IBOs have a lower divorce level than the world. They may tell you a bunch of unsubstantiated details. I urge IBOs to verify and confirm claims like these.
As an IBO, the diamonds may tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniverssary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an "investment" into your business.
Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own seperate standing orders. Brad Duncen even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.
In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?
Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are cutthroat wolves in sheep's clothing who will take your last dime if you allow them to.
They may even claim moral superiority such as using religion as a basis for building the business. I heard some leaders say "Amway is a God pleasing business". Really? God likes lying and exploiting others? I would beg to differ. They might tell you lies such as Amway and/or WWDB IBOs have a lower divorce level than the world. They may tell you a bunch of unsubstantiated details. I urge IBOs to verify and confirm claims like these.
As an IBO, the diamonds may tell you to never miss a function, ever. The only good reason for missing a function was for your own funeral. I recall some crossline IBOs rearranging pre-planned anniverssary parties, weddings, and other special family events in the name of being core and attending all functions. Some IBOs actually did quit their jobs to attend functions and they very well may have done so because some uplines taught this. IBOs were also encouraged and told to go into debt to attend a function. This was okay because it was an "investment" into your business.
Our group was also strongly encouraged to buy extra cds every week. To be core, you needed to listen to a cd each day and you cannot listen to the same one each day right? Couples were told to buy their own seperate standing orders. Brad Duncen even had a true north tape (cd) that said sponsors were to eat the standing orders for downlines who quit because it was too much trouble to call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. Oddly enough, they didn't mind upline calling upline calling upline to add a standing order.
In the end, I was lucky enough to have been progressing up the pin ranks so my losses were not that devastating. I ended up losing in my early months of the business but mostly broke even when I was at 4000 PV. Sadly though, my crossline did not fare so well. I know of one couple who declared bankruptcy. I don't know how much their WWDB involvement contributed to bankruptcy, but I am certain it was a major factor and I know of two couples who had homes foreclosed, and I believe that their allegiance to WWDB was a factor in those foreclosures. But I guess hey, two WWDB diamonds had homes foreclosed so maybe they were duplicating?
Do not be fooled. The diamonds may have a nice smile and a nice suit, but they are cutthroat wolves in sheep's clothing who will take your last dime if you allow them to.
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