Friday, August 4, 2017

Amway Or A Job?

One of the ways that upline diamonds would put down jobs was to toss in the phrase that a job was simply trading hours for dollars. As if it were demeaning to have a job where you got paid for your time. I believe it's all relative. Being that many IBos are young and maybe working in more entry level types of jobs, then yeah, your hours wage might not be that great. If you earn say $10 an hour, then you might be struggling financially and it may take time before your skills and knowledge increase to a point where your experience is worth more money. What if you had a job paying $1000 an hour and earned $160,000 a month? Is that a lousy deal trading hours for dollars? Sounds pretty sweet to me.

Conversely, having a business can be good or bad also. If you have an Amway business earning less than $100 a month and you spend $200 a month on functions, standing orders and other training and motivational materials, then you are losing money. You would be better off doing nothing. That is still a better alternative than working a business where you are losing money. I think most people agree that a platinum group typically has a 100 or more IBOs. Thus a platinum is in the top 1% of all IBOs. I have heard that the platinum level is where you start to break even or make a little profit, depending on your level of tool consumption. If platinums are barely making a profit, then the other 99+% of IBOs are likely losing money. How much is that worth per hour?

I think uplines cleverly trick IBOs into thinking that a job is bad. Trading hours for dollars, afterall, sounds like some kind of indentured servant of sorts. But in the end, what matters is your bottom line. If you are an IBO with little or no downline, and/or not much in terms of sales to non IBOs/customers, then you are losing money each and every month if you are attending functions and buying standing orders. Your 10-12 hours a week of Amway work is costing you money! But if you spend 10-12 hours a week, even at minimum wage, then you might be making about 300 to 350 a month gross income. After taxes, you make about 250 to 300. At least trading hours for dollars gets you a guaranteed net gain at the end of the month. Amway nearly assures you of net losses each month.

Uplines trick you into a "business mentality" where you think that working for a net loss is just a part of business. IBOs should realize that a business promoted as low risk and no overhead should be one where you can profit right away. Instead, IBOs are taught to delay gratification, or to reinvest any profit back into their business in the form of tools and functions, which results in a net loss. If that's the case I would gladly choose trading hours for dollars.

Remember, trading hours for dollars is not a bad deal if you are making enough dollars per hour. And even those who make less, are better off that those who "run a business" but end up with a net loss. It's all relative and hopefully, this message will help new or prospective IBOs who are being enticed to join the Amway business opportunity. Good luck to those with jobs and those with businesses. You can be successful either way.


Anonymous said...

This is probably a waiste of my time. Joecool or Joefool whatever you call yourself, if you love your job so much then keep it. Quit trying to convince people that Amway is a bad deal. When I was at the 1000pv level of the bonus schedule I made $200 to $300 + my retail profit of $100 to $200. So I was making $300 to $500. That more than compensated for the training tools and functions. I didn't quit my job until I reached the platinum level.
To me a job is actually the riskiest way to earn an income. You are in a sense as you put it, an indentured slave no matter what you are earning. You are at the whim of the owners and whether or not that company stays in business.
So quit sadistically wasting your time writing your halftruths. #fakenews, #looser.

Joecool said...

Anonymous, I don't believe you, but even if you made of $300 to $500 at the 1000 PV level, you had downline losing money. And the upline was still making big profits from you tool purchases. If you are hard core dedicated to the system, then you didn't make much profit. You're just another "drive by" commentator who offers no evidence to support your claim.

I don't convince anyone of anything. My blog sits here and you search and find it on your own. Nobody is forced to read my blog or to make any decisions because of it.

As an Amway IBO, you are at the whim of Amway and your upline. That's worse than having a boss. You cross Amway or your upline and you'll be cut off, like an employee losing a job. You're no better off in Amway and a job at least pays you (guaranteed) for your work, Amway does not.

You say I write half truths, but fail to identify even a single one of them. Typical "tape peak" from an Amway adherent.

Mike Evans said...

So here is my two cents on this. Joe I understand where you are coming from. And to a point you are correct. Where you are wrong is in your numbers. Anonymous could be accurate. As no one has the same 1000pv business. It all depends on structure and what kind of business volume is going through their business. It is possible to be at 1000pv without any downline. I doubt any one person is buying that much product themselves so that's an unrealistic potential. But what is not unrealistic is someone creating that much customer volume. If someone does 1000pv in customer column that person probably makes well over $500 in profit (depends on what products were sold)
Typically someone reaches 1000pv with downline. And yes some of those downline are probably just getting started and working in their customer base so they may not be making much money. But every new business takes time to earn a profit at least with this business we are not trying to cover a several hundred thousand dollar investment into starting a business.
For you to say that making platinum is when people start to break even is completely in true. Platinum or the 7500 pv level I have not seen anyone make less than 3k a month. If someone is just breaking even at that point I feel bad for them because no one should be spending that much on products and tools. They obviously are doing something wrong.
Joe as to your comment that if amway it Upline cuts you off your done is also not true. Amway will not cut anyone off unless they break rules or regulations repeatedly. Same thing would happen to any other business. So follow a few simple guidelines and you're good. Now however unlikely it is that Upline cuts you off you are still not

Mike Evans said...


Still not done. The people that started this business did not have Upline and they were successful. I have also personally met many others that lives out of state from their Upline and are still successful. It all about ambition and drive to win with this opportunity. Because that all it is is an opportunity. Whether someone wins or fails is completely 100% their fault. And does everyone make millions of dollars? No no they don't. But could everyone? Yes if they choose to.
I have a bigger question for you joe. And others may have asked you before but I'm not going to search your blog for the answer. Have you been a part of amway before? I don't care about any other network marketing company I am only concerned with amway. Have to been an amway IBO? Or is this all coming from some "research" you did on google?

Thank you

Sorry that was long winded but this topic is not easily discussed in text format.

Joecool said...

Someone at the platinum level can be losing money or only breaking even. A platinum making 3K a month would be one with a great business structure and I already know that this is the exception and not the rule. That's why a Q 12 platinum is not the norm.

How can you lose money at that level? If you have to travel by air to get to functions and to show the plan for distance groups, you can spend a fortune. Not to mention functions generally occur when air travel is the most expensive.

At 4000 PV, here are my approximate monthly expenses (I was an IBO in the 90's and I was at 4000 PV myself):

Standing order: $36
Extra tapes/CDs: $168 (upline taught that "leaders" buy 7-9 extra tapes/CDs per week - you can't listen to the same one each day right?)
Voicemail: $24
Open meetings (plus parking) $16
Regional functions (one each month except when major functions occur). $28
Books $20
Gas $50
Major functions (I'm from Hawaii). $1300 X 4 (average = over $400 per month). Airfare about $800 R/T, hotels, rental cars, meals
100 - 150 PV approximate cost $300

Those expenses associated with Amway (and I'm sure I missed some) exceed $1000

Someone at the gold level (7500 PV) earns about $1200 per month ( The gold level is attained by .26% of IBOs which is abut 1 in 400.

So if you did as I was told, you would be below the platinum level and have Amway associated expenses exceeding $1000, assuming you are hard core. I did not include airfare and hotels for showing out of town plans. My platinum flew to Arizona/California to show the plan twice per year and there's go diamond weekend, which Amway pays for, but if you live in Hawaii or far away states, you need to fly. When you factor in all these expenses, a platinum can indeed beard even, lose money or make a little. And about 1 in 400 reaches that level. Anyone lower than that is likely to lose money, again if they are hard core.

Omar Garcia said...

Please, stop writing about things you don't have any clue. I'm not going to show you my check or any other IBO is going to do it to try to convince you of anything. Amway's 60th anniversary is down the line. Simple, is clear you are not fit for this type of business. Go flip burgers and secure a job.

Joecool said...

Omar, thanks for basically admitting you're losing money in Amway. Sure, you don't have to post your "check". But posting your check is meaningless without knowing what your expenses are. If you make $10,000 a month but you spend $9000 on expenses, you aren't making much. That's what Amwayers do. Show a copy of a big check but don't show the expenses. Or they make like you to refuse to show anything.

Shaun Ornellas said...

Sorry Joe you have the opinions you have, you obviously have not been involved in the business, nor built it. Your vitriol certainly gives me that indication.

I have been involved with the company for over 30 years. Those that work it and work it properly, make good money. Those that pretend, or want to reinvent the wheel don't!

By your discussion, you strike me as being the latter.

Good luck with your future and please do not denigrate those that are putting in the hard work(like every other businessperson or committed employee).

Anonymous said...

This "Omar Garcia" is a complete jackass. But that's the kind of person they like in Amway -- someone totally obedient and unquestioning, and ready to spout Amway jargon.

And yes -- "Omar Garcia" is no doubt losing money hand over fist in the Amway racket. That's why he's so defensive.

Joecool said...

"You obviously have not been involved in the business"?

Wrong. I was a 4000 with eagle parameters. No net profit due to the tools and functions.

What vitriol are you speaking of? I haven't put anyone down or used foul language. It is the Amwayers who visit this blog and use derogatory statements about me. Have you read how to win friends and influence people?

My future is very bright. Thank you! How does running a blog denigrate anyone in any way? You visit this website on your own accord. I'm not sitting at your computer forcing you to come here and read my articles.

You say you've been involved for 30 years but you don't mention having a net profit. Why is that?

Anonymous said...

Since the only "Shaun Ornellas" in the United States (from Fresno, California) is 33 years old according to on-line records, it's hard to see how he could have been in Amway for 30 years.

It's exactly as Anna Banana always says: You know an Ambot is lying when he opens his mouth.

kwaaikat said...

@Anon 4:41.

I certainly support your sentiment about misinformation, but to be fair I think this Shaun is in Australia.

I'm also not in the USA. The story is the same everywhere. My perception is that Amway already has a very bad name in the USA, Canada, Australia, UK, and South Africa. Here if you just try to market a business opportunity people willl ask whether it's Amway. And then say no they're not interested in loosing friends and alienating people. It does not sound very different in the US.

India is probably next.

The bad rap in Australia is evident in this case as well. Direct selling and a few other terms are mentioned on LinkedIn, but not Amway. And the reference to the business itself (there is another day job which seems to have subsidised Amway in the last 30 years) is vague.

In won't insult him because guys like him are the worst victims. The guy that's trying to recruit me has a cunningly similar story, and he has also been in it for very long.

He also uses the (15) years in it as a positive (ie he has a lot of experience to mentor you) but the irony that so many years wasted, without having built a replacement income never hits home. He could have progressed a lot further in the industry he is in, had he put his mind there, rather than chasing a fake dream. His peers have nice senior jobs with lots of freedom, and quite a lot have started successful (real) businesses in the industry. Even if he used the time to learn something of value.

The only ray of light in both cases is that neither of them have gone in fully, like that guy from Merchants of Deception.

Joe said...

"I didn't quit my job until I reached the platinum level"

Well if that's true, then you are an idiot. You can't support yourself AND the Amway scam on a platinum earnings.

Anonymous said...

Amway as a cult.

These higher ups, the ones making millions of dollars dangle Maserati cars million dollar homes in front of these young impressionable people and tell them they too can own this..

But as they struggle to reach that goal they pay an entrance fee for each mandatory meeting..meetings are almost 3 to 5 times a week.
And some of these meetings they attend they are given cold sandwiches chips and water or soda...

For the amount of money these young people spend they should get more than a cold sandwich.

Also they hold bible studies in an uplines home but are told in many different forms that Amway meetings are more important than your family weddings birthdays etc.

Now if you are still in Amway and someone leaves Amway you are no longer allowed to associate yourself with them... So you build these "fake" friendship for the sole purpose of recruiting fresh young people.

You are not allowed to date anyone within your group unless you get permission from your superior first

The ONLY thing they do is help these young people build good work ethics and social skills for future employment

im sorry but this is what I have seen first hand.