Thursday, September 24, 2009

Amway - College Graduate Earnings Vs. IBO Earnings

According to a U.S. Census Department study entitled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" (http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23%2D210.pdf), over an adult's working life the following are average lifetime earnings based on educational level attained:

High school graduates - $1.2 million
Bachelor's degree - $2.1 million
Master's degree - $2.5 million
Doctoral degrees - $3.4 million
Professional degrees do best at $4.4 million.

In 1999, average annual earnings ranged from $18,900 for high school dropouts to $25,900 for high school graduates, $45,400 for college graduates and $99,300 for the holders of professional degrees (medical doctors, dentists, veterinarians and lawyers).

Given empirical, verified and objective data demonstrating that a college education more than pays for itself, it is foolish for someone to suggest that they can't reasonably expect a return on their investment in a college education. It would take a real moron to suggest that they could exceed that return by wasting their time building an Amway business. Especially given the data showing miserable average results.

As far as the cost of that education and the implication that a person will incur massive debt, that too is a complete fabrication.

For those of you interested in the actual data on student loans and the effect of a college education on earnings, look here:

http://www.studentloanfacts.org/NR/rdonlyres/97FD743A-8F38-4641-916A-C4D907A84EE5/0/factbook.pdf

and here:
http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/press/cost03/cb_trends_aid_2003.pdf

and here:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2003/pdf/42_2003.pdf

Oh, and if you are an "average" IBO, spending 40 years working Amway with the average earnings of $115 a month, your career of 40 years will gross you $55,200.

37 comments:

mrmaximum said...

As someone once said, numbers don't lie. They have no personality, bias, or preference. The only way to sway numbers into your favour is to falsify them, what I mean by that is use the wrong numbers.

Joe has used some numbers here which don't make Amway look good whatsoever. Where are the numbers which support IBO's? Like I said (and I'm not the first to say it) they tell a storym they do not care what story they tell.

There it is in black and white and Joe has provided the source. Only 1% or less of IBO's will make more than a highschool dropout over their lifetime, provided Amway lasts that long.

Anonymous said...

I don't believe your analysis. I see the results. I'm university educated in computer science and make less than $ 35 K per year before taxes. Not worth it for money. For hobby certainly yes.

Anonymous said...

What you don't say is that an "average" IBO has $55,200 more than the rest, since an "average" IBO works --like the people in the statistics you brought up. A smart move, seems to me.

I came to the Amway business to be an above average IBO and that I have achieved. I just can't connect with the numbers you give here since I make much, much more.

Joecool said...

$55,200 is gross income. Subtract 40 years of standing order and functions and you will see staggering losses. Not to mention, my time is worth something as well.

mrmaximum said...

Hmm,1% is average huh? So if that is the case, why do only 1% do the work? Even if only a small number of IBO's did the work and it started showing results, then why aren't more jumping on the bandwagon? I'm sure anyone who has been in Amway has heard the statement "Whatever you resist, persists" so if that is the case Anon #2, the results would speak for themselves as to the success of the amway business, which it does not.

P said...

Zig Ziglar once said, "The man who earns $100,000 a year could well be judge a failure if he is capable of earning five times that amount."

You hold the potential to make more if you believe you do. Or you could just go back to being a good employee, make the average income (spider monkey) and join the massive.

Anonymous said...

Wow... really??? Amway Global is debt free and grew by almost 15% during this economic recession. ($7.2 Billion to $8.4 Billion in sales) Amway Global has been around for 50 years -- is Better Business Bureau Compliant and Federal Trade Commission Approved. The owners of Amway Global also own an NBA franchise as well as a British Virgin Island (Peter Island). Amway Global has produced more millionaires than anything else out there. The "AVERAGE" IBO earns $115 a month because there are a bunch of losers that get involved with the team that have no intentions of building it. You can't argue with success.

Anonymous said...

im lost but now im found IBO

wally_bang_bang@yahoo.com said...

im about to start amway but i'm confused. is it worth it or what. i think you can make as much as you are worth. if you are lazy than you are not going to make spit

Anonymous said...

If you follow the leadership in the Amway business and do what is taught--you are going to be successful. Those who 'quit' Amway couldn't say they ever started. The benefits of the Amway company go way beyond the financial benefits with tax write offs, power of association, and the great products that come along with it. If you choose to be average then you can't expect to be successful anywhere. If you understand a productive and effective work ethic then the Amway Global business model is very intelligent model to be associated with.

Anonymous said...

I would just like to point out that no one in Amway ever said that an Education is not necessary. An education is a different way of making money. An education teaches to trade time for money, where Amway teaches people how to make money residually. No way is right or wrong here. Amway is also backed by the better business bueara and has been running for well over 50 years. So if your implying it's a scam, I really think you need to do your research a little better. The BBB would not support a scam or a pyramid scheme and I'm pretty sure Amway is partners with places like Office Depot, FTD, Shop.com, Barnes & Noble, Dicks Sporting Goods, The Disney store and owns things like Peter Island and the Orlando Magic. Most of which have more lawyers than you probably do friends, so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't work with a company that is a scam! Although you may have something right, you really seem uneducated about the company you are talking trash on!

Anonymous said...

Most professionals that start an Amway business of their own are doing so in addition to their full time income. It is meant to supplement that base income from your job that you may or may not be satisfied with.

Top Amway producers are not told to retire and have this be their only source of income until their numbers (core IBOs, numbers of people attending functions, on membership) are solid enough to ensure a large residual income from the business.

The argument from the author is unfounded because he/she is assuming that this is an individual's ONLY source of income. If I make just 500 a month in Amway (post expenses) that is still 6K a year additional that can help someone cut at their dept, help pay a mortgage or rent etc...

I like to compare it to many of my coworkers who have decided to work towards a MBA while working full time in finance. They have decided to spend thousands of dollars towards a degree that they hope will increase their total income years later. I have decided to grow an Amway Business where I risk far less money, but possibly more time to set myself up for a long term secondary income years later.

Anonymous said...

The sale of BSMs (business support materials) by "high ranking" IBOs may be questionable, but so is the sale of any motivational product.

If you're going to do Amway, stay away from BSMs unless that kind of stuff actually helps you. The Amway business itself is not a scam at all. As another poster said, the BBB backs Amway.

If you're good at networking with people, you could potentially do well with an Amway business. If you don't like people, it's probably not for you.

jintoci said...

Amway is a franchise, no different than a McDonald's. And now they are promoting themselves all over TV during the NBA and NHL playoffs, so anyone considering this is a scam is simply uneducated on the business. I'm not bashing anyone, but it's apparent that they are simply not educated.

A lot of people jump into Amway and wait for checks to come... That would be a pyramid scheme and those that sit back and wait for checks will be disappointed. This business requires effort just like any other business in this world... There is no such thing as a get rich quick scheme. People that don't put in any effort feel they have been taken for a ride and go online bashing the business. The internet makes everyone a professional writer with an opinion, so definitely be cautious of what you read online...

Obviously Amway is not a scam, but can people scam people? Sure... My advice to anyone interested in joining a company like Amway is look for a mentor as opposed to worry about the products or compensation. If you join Amway for example and your leader or mentor disappears you might feel scammed. And you're not really scammed monetarily since the investment is so small, but you might feel scammed that your mentor promised the moon and vanished. So yes, you were mislead... This has nothing to do with Amway, but simply the IBO that signed you up.

If anyone has read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki you will start to understand that Network Marketing is a big business and is good for anyone looking to get out of the rat race. A good Network Marketing company like Amway has a proven system in place, and a team of people to help you succeed. As an IBO we don't make a penny of your sign up investment into the franchise, but we make money based on your success. Why would we waste our time helping you grow if we weren't going to get anything out of it? If anyone that has a job or is self employed is looking for a legitimate opportunity, than Network Marketing is it... I'll give the example of McDonald's again. How is a company like that able to be run by teenagers all throughout the country? Think about it... That's because they have a system in place... If you were to buy into that franchise it would cost you millions. But then they tell you exactly how it's supposed to be run. And obviously their system works... All of us can make a better hamburger than McDonalds, but if you open a McDonald's make your own hamburger you will be thrown out the door... Were you scammed? No, you didn't follow the system. So Amway, is a franchise. You buy into their franchise, their system, and with the proper leader or IBO on your upline you could make a fortune... But it requires effort.

I hope I was able to make some people think differently in regards to this and I would love to talk to others further about this subject since it's something I'm very passionate about. Feel free to email me at anytime.

Joey
jintoci@optonline.com

Joecool said...

Amway is NOT a franchise. And they are no like McDonald's. McDonald's owners actually make money, unlike most IBOs.

Anonymous said...

Joe cool, you just keep staying "cool"...
Very Broke cool

Joecool said...

Anon, stayin in Amway and be worse than broke. You will end up in hock! Maybe you already are?

Anonymous said...

U know Joecool and every1 who says its gonna make u broke doesn't work bla bla bla would be right......if I didn't know some 1 personally who went from starting out as a IBO and now is Emerald making over 200,000 wife been retired for bout 3 yrs now he gonna retire in 3 months, and on ya he gets that on the side, he's text book college education got him a job at a bank and he doesn't get a fraction of that. This took him bought 8 yrs and they say it could have been less if they got serious earlier and just listened to their mentors who were already doing well. Take it as u will man I'm doin chemical enginnering and ima graduate in 2 yrs. I can work for Nasa for 15 yrs and I will not have the growth that he has had. I'm IBO, crow die hard still sun down!!!!

Anonymous said...

The only problem with Amway is that they pay not enough until you reach at least Emerald level (a beguining Emerald can cash a check of around $3,000) to make a living from the business, and Emerald level is achivable for the 0.00000001% of the ibo`s, that`s one, on the other side because they don`t pay enough the only way to keep the wagon rolling is to get money fron the education system and if you believe Eric Scheibeler (an ex Founder Emerald) in his book "Merchants of Deception" (get it free from the web) from the earnings of some Diamonds that earned 2 million a year, $100 000 were from Amway, the rest is from the "education sytem" that`s means that they run two business in one or better say, they "milk" the ibo`s twice a month in order to pay for the gas of the rolls royce.
My wife and i were in Amway for three years, working our a** from 30 to 50 hours a week, building a 396 people downline and achiving Gold Level, just 1 month short of getting Platinum, (they got a fiscal year in wich you have to qualify for the level or you begin from zero again) our biggest check was for $1876.00, in the month that we did spend $1000.00 in goods from the company, and $800.00 for a convention, ($400.00 in convention tickets and $400.00 in gas, hotel and food during the three days event), not worth your time, your efforts and losing the relation with your family and friends do to the business.
Now take a look at this, in the mlm company business we are doing right now, we earn in our first month $1600,00 in just 20 hours work, our first month in Amway was a little bit over $100.00, and that is abnormal, the normal john and jane doe, don`t earn more than $10.00 in his/her first month in Amway.

Anonymous said...

wow, i had to slog through all that bullcrap to get to only ONE person who posted an intelligent comment besides joe and mr. max??? smh

Anonymous said...

Hello every one. I'm very new to this business. won't be able to comment with such authority or knowledge like you all.
All I can say right now that Amway has changed my way of thinking. My whole life was in a mess. Not in reality but in my own mindset. Slowly and gradually I started containing myself within boundaries. That this was my limit and i won't be able to go any further. The exuberance of youth; which I was once famous for in my fraternity, was no longer there. They told me that this is the reality of life. Life in the real world.
But the education system associated with amway that some of you have criticized a lot, That's the one which has changed my life.
thanks to them,I now believe in my capabilities again. It is such a wonderful system. a system which I had made an opinion about that it existed only in books of ethics at present. But here is Amway operating on the same moral values and principles for over 60 years now, and growing.
Moreover the products they provide. Those love their mother earth will never say no to such products. simply world class. You are not cheating any one of their money in their business. it's all about inclusive growth. One for all and all for one. Beautiful system.
I believe one perceive the world as are his/her thoughts about the world he/she lives in. once you change your thought process, not only can you the world around yourself but also your complete personality. You will be a more confident person. If U believe in something u can achieve, you can surely do it.
That's what amway is all about. That's because the products which you'll be selling are 90 percent about ur own self and 10 percent about the product itself.
May god bless you all with love and a brighter future.
Thank you for reading this.
Dr. Malhi

Anonymous said...

blah, blah, blah....gotta love them ambots!

Anonymous said...

I've read a vast majority of these posts and find it more entertaining then help-full. The people who defend this business spout emotional babel. The non believer keeps condemning no matter the proof. Then, you have the third type someone who just got started and looks for a reason to justify why they should not believe Amway is horrible. To you sir or ma'am, you will find nothing good if you look for it. Instead see the positive. Get out and share this company with others and earn your return investment. This is the same with any program. Work it, stop trying to find the next best thing. Amway has been around and still going strong sense the 1950's. It's gonna keep going on with or without you.

Anonymous said...

blah, blah, blah....gotta love them ambots. hey, is there an echo in here??? HAHAHAHAHAHA :p

Yuri Gonzalez said...

the person who wrote this article is a fucking moron . check out 2012 amway and decide for your self . the moron that took time to write this article most likely lives of credit cards like i used to , broke !!! if you reading this is because some one presented you to this business. make your own decision. educate yourself with new information at efinity from amway . have fun

Joecool said...

More like you're a fucking moron if you think Amway is a good business opportunity.

Anonymous said...

Dont fall for amway .1% suceed and other 99% watch that 1% Dream of becoming millionaires.

luke beno said...

I am that 1% an you are the 99% so go get another degree because
I know why! An you know how!

luke beno said...

This is the real deal Mr Joe Cool I am that 1% an you are the 99% so go get another degree because
I know why ! An you know how !

Joecool said...

Luke, you can pretend anything you want. Ain't it great? How much did you make last month from Amway? A net loss? LOL

luke beno said...

hahaha this guy is funny

Anonymous said...

truth can certainly be a hoot, now can't it, lukey luke???

fuck off.

**proud Amway hater**

Anonymous said...

What convention did you attend that cost $800? Every convention that I have ever seen costs $75 for first time IBOs and $120 for everyone else. If you do not like Amway fine but do not lie about costs just to make it seem as though you were put out or ripped off.

Anonymous said...

Joe do not lie.. If you truly were at 4000pv then you would have been making a profit unless that 4000pv was only generated in one leg. At which point you should have gotten off your bum and sponsored more people instead of being lazy. People like you need to quit expecting handouts and actually EARN what they get.

Anonymous said...

$120 is still a lot...

Anonymous said...

fuck off...

Anonymous said...

i wonder if i shall see this anon in dc.....hmn...Dussualt!!!