Thursday, September 17, 2009

Amway - Helping People?

One of the things my upline said at nearly every meeting was how we were helping people by sharing the dream and showing others the Amway plan. "Helping people". He claimed that IBOs became better people and were doing good for the community by helping people. I always thought ths was odd because the only people we really "helped" were those who got into the business. We didn't hang out with or help anyone else.

How do you help someone when your life is dedicated to buying and selling Amway products, recruiting Amway prospects and attending Amway related meetings to learn how to recruit more Amway IBOs and to motivate yourself to never quit the business. I used to think about people doing volunteer work, or community service projects, or even outreach through their churches. These are the real everydy heroes who are helping others. While an outreach volunteer feeds the homeless, IBOs are in meetings. When people are doing community service projects, IBOs are showing the plan or prospecting the malls for new recruits. Who is actually helping people?

Yes, I am aware that IBOs at times, contribute to Easter Seals and the like, but do they invest the kind of time that others do? And I'm not faulting IBOs, but simply pointing out that the Amway business activities can eat away at your time and prevent you from spending time with family and friends, and prevent you from actually "helping others". While the Amway business is no different that other businesses and the like in that regard, I do not feel that the tiny average earnings of IBOs make it worth their while to spend all of that time in meetings and recruitng to make their return on their investment a worthwhile activity.

So in all of the activities you engage in as an IBO, are you helping people? Or are you only helping people who might be interested in joining your Amway business?


Anonymous said...

JoeCool, I'm a founder’s platinum from Mexico. In my country, the average number of books read in a year by the population is around one.

IBOs promote the importance of reading to people inside and outside the Amway business, through the use of words and by setting an example. Our combined efforts have helped hundreds –perhaps thousands— of people who have now picked up the habit of reading.

It is always rewarding to me to confirm later on that their new habit has really made a difference in their lives.

I know of no other force in Mexico that is promoting in such an effective way the habit of reading.

Another way we are helping people is by doing what many authors --who are not in the business-- do: help people wake up to the fact that having a job is not the best way to prosper.

Not everyone who wakes up to this fact joins the Amway business, but they do become entrepreneurs in some other way. That is another way we are helping people.

Joecool said...

Mexico Platinum, thank you for commenting.

You help people by telling people that a job is not the best way to prosper. How exactly does that hep a family feed their children?

How much NET income do your downlines receive after they subtract their Amway business expenses?

Anonymous said...

Upline does help! They help themselves to your money when you buy their bull crap tapes and voicemail system.

Anonymous said...

¿Amway promoting reading?

For God Sake!

I'm a Mexican, and let me tell you one thing:

I never heard something about promoting reading by the Amway people.

The most intensive reading program is made by the government (Ministry of Education).

In these days there's a heated debate about MLM's schemes, even the debate erupted on
some Mexican blogs (Xango is a good example).

And those MLM people have the same silly
arguments than their US counterparts. (The
words "loser", "broke" sounds familiar to you?)

I'm sick and tired of hearing of the "wonderful things" about MLM's like Omnilife,
Herbalife, Mary Kay and of course Amway.

Amway Mexico, like in the USA have a very bad reputation, his golden age was in 1995, after
a huge financial crisis.

But not today.

The only thing that I heard in Mexico about Amway are the tv ad's, and they sound funny
when they say : "Por favor vea a su empresario Amway". (Please contact you Amway enterpreneur).

And one thing:

Don't try to promote yourself like you're doing something wonderful saying that our people are stupid!

There are more than 20 newspapers just in
Mexico City alone.

The people in Mexico read, but the books are very expensive.

The people need more affordable books, not
"charity" from MLM schemers.

An angry Mexican.

Anonymous said...

Angry Mexican,

The fact that you've never heard of something about promoting reading by the Amway people doesn't mean that Amway people do not promot reading. It just means you haven't heard about it.

The ministry of education may have the most intensive reading program but not the most effective. For people to pick up the habit of reading the have to "want to pick up the habit of reading" not just "be told" by an intensive program. Give meaning to reading, and chances are better for people to pick up the habit.

Debates about MLMs exist since MLMs started to appear. Debates about them now doesn't change a thing. I'm earning money while people complain. I'm earning money inspite of that supossedly bad reputation that you mention. The bad reputation depends on who you talk to.

The words "Loser" and "Broke" don't seem familiar to me; I don't use them in my business. Perhaps someone else does, and that is something no one can control.

If someone mentions a statistic about the number of books people read in Mexico doesn't mean that he or she is promoting that Mexicans are stupid. If an angry Mexican things that the statistic is an attack, well... that is just his opinion.

Newspapers don't educate people, they just inform about current afairs.

Why do you promote that Mexicans are poor by saying that books are very expensive and that's the reason people don't read more books? Or is it just a possible interpretation of your comment?

Perhaps people don't need more affordable books, but to increase their income in order to be able to buy what seems to me as reasonable priced books.

A happy Mexican.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the Anonymous comment

“Upline does help! They help themselves to your money when you buy their bull crap tapes and voicemail system.”

In his book The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey suggests that there are four time of relationships: win-win, win-lose, lose-win and lose-lose. He also suggests that the only one that can be long term is a win-win relationship.

You say “when you buy their bull crap tapes”.

Why would you buy them if all they are to you are ”bull crap tapes”?

I wonder what is it that motivates you to establish win (you upline) – lose (yourself) relationships?

My suggestion to you is, do not establish win-lose relationships. And, if you ever do, take responsibility. Wining about it afterwards and making an effort to put the blame somewhere else where it doesn’t belong certainly doesn’t help at all.

And by the way, those bull crap tapes have taught me a few things that have proved to be very useful.

Joecool said...

Anonymous, maybe you can tell us what the tapes have taught you?

That facts are not important?

That profit is not important?

That Amway saves marriages?

The purchase of tapes and functions is win for the upline and lose for those who purchase the BS materials.

Anonymous said...

> Anonymous, maybe you can tell us what the tapes have taught you?

I could, but I just don't see the point.

>That facts are not important?

Yes, like the fact that in Mexico the number of books read in a year by the population is around one.

> That profit is not important?

Yes, that's how I was able to buy a new car.

> That Amway saves marriages?

It's couples actions and decisions that save or destroy marriages. What does Amway have to do with that?

> The purchase of tapes and functions is win for the upline and lose for those who purchase the BS materials.

That's just your opinion.

Anonymous said...

> How much NET income do your downlines receive after they subtract their Amway business expenses?

JoeCool, how do you think I should go about finding the answer to your question? How would I know what their Amway expenses are? How would I know what their income is?

While an IBO may decide to spend on gasoline to travel to other cities, another one won't. While an IBO may decide to sell a thousand dollars worth of products and make a profit, another one may not sell at all.

I have seen people making the decision to give away their profit just to have somebody give the products a try. Why would they do that? I don't know. Can Amway o an upline control an IBO's decision to give away his profit? Of course not.

Some people join Amway and don't make a profit at all. Some people join Amway and make good profits --like me. It is Amway's victory or failure when one thing happens or the other? It is not.

Why do some people fail in the very same business where others succeed? I'll let a third person suggest an answer to you. Watch the video "Motivational Expert Discusses 'Secret Code of Success'"

Anonymous said...

> You help people by telling people that a job is not the best way to prosper. How exactly does that hep a family feed their children?

The ability of a family to feed their children is dependent on the abilities of each of the family members that are in a position to generate income on the family's behalf.

Some people have a job and take good care of their family. Some people have a job –in the same company and with the same boss— and struggle to take care of their family. It must be the company’s and bosses fault for sure, right?

What I said was that we help people wake up to the fact that having a job is not the best way to *prosper*. I’m not talking about stability.

You talk about feeding a family. What does that has to do with prosperity. If a family is not able to feed their children then they have other types of problems that need to be solved first.

First strive for stability (perhaps with a job), then for prosperity (probably not with a job).

Anonymous said...

Joecool, why would you buy these tapes if all they are to you are "bull crap tapes"?

Joecool said...

I am warning people to avoid buying bull crap tapes.

Anonymous said...

How does a family prosper? There are obviously more than a few ways, but it is my opinion that many people don't understand basic budgetting skills.

Many people are already employed, but having a hard time making ends meet. Perhaps they should give up cable, or shift to a slower internet speed. Perhaps they can walk to work or carpool. Or maybe they should stop being hyperconsumers of things they can't really afford or don't need - a lot of people have a hard time saying no to impulse items.

Here's the problem - joining Amway causes already cash strapped families to spend more money to build their business. But they joined Amway to earn more money, not to spend more money. It's a conundrum! What's the head of a household to do to fulfil his or her familial obligations (provide food and shelter, pay bills, supply health insurance, etc.)?

I know the job market is tight right now and its a hard time to be searching for another job, whether it be a better paying full time job or a second job to supplement your income.

If you are already having a hard time making ends meet, Amway is probably not for you. Don't fool yourself: Amway doesn't help people to read more (but libraries do and you can get the material in them for FREE), newspapers DO INDEED educate and inform, and a good way to prosper is to live below your means and save money for the future in a retirement account. Compound interest is a beautiful thing.

I recently read Millionaire Women Next Door. Most of the women profiled owned their own businesses. Some of them just had regular modest jobs. None of them worked in Amway businesses. These women lived in modest neighborhoods, drove modest cars, lived below their means and contributed to local charities. They did it with hard work, time, tenacity, perseverance and effort. 3/4s of them went to college, 1/4 of them did not. All of them could live off of their savings for many many years.

The moral of the story is, there really aren't any successful get rich quick schemes. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Residual income is either mythical or unattainable to the grand majority of people out there and this means all of you who've been told they are pretty sharp by an Amway recruiter.

-Living in the Real World

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, do not imply that Amway is a get rich quick scheme. It's not. It requires works, effort and patience. You deal with people here not objects. Obviously you personally don't deal well with people and as soon as you get frustrated with people you throw the towel and quit. That's why this buisness isn't for you and since you don't like my answer, this business model becomes a get rich quick scheme in your eyes. Sorry.

Joecool said...

LOL, should should not imply that Amway is get rich period. Upliars only teach you the get rich slow mantra so you will stick around for a few years and line their pockets by purchasing standing orders and seminar tickets.

Anonymous said...

Oh, anon - HAHAH, Amway distributorship certainly isn't for me, I agree with you there! I am not a sucker! Also, I am doing just fine all on my own and am reasonably successful with my J-O-B - incidentally I do work with the public and have done so for a long period of time.

You say Amway is not a get rich quick scheme, and I agree with you, it is not. Unfortunately, that is not how it is portrayed to prospects! Many are told that if they just follow their upline's advice, they can buy a house IN CASH! (or some other outlandish claim) in a few years IF they ALSO buy the motivational DVD's and attend all the functions(which, incidentally, many of them can't afford because remember they got into Amway to MAKE more money, not SPEND more money).

New IBOs are indoctrinated into Amway by a constant barrage of people displaying their supposed wealth and a very persistent message that "you can do it too!" But can you? Were you able to accomplish the things they told you you could achieve in the time they said it would take? Did you buy that house in cash? Did they in fact lie to you? They told you anyone could do it. So why haven't you?

Its because Amway doesn't work for everyone. Unfortunately, people don't realize this until they are more in the hole than they were when they started. It is not the IBOs fault. It is because its actually DIFFICULT to make a business work with this sort of business model.
And when I say work, I mean, make a profit, support yourself, save money for retirement, etc.

Life isn't a get rich quick scheme, true. If I wasn't making any headway in accomplishing my goals in a few years, I would sincerely question if I was on the right path. Amway isn't for everyone, but it DEFINITELY isn't for people who can't make ends meet to begin with.

-Living in the Real World

Anonymous said...

You're reasonably successful with your job... and it's just as reasonable to loose it one day. Sounds fair. But I won't argue with you because you're as clueless and as childish as Joecool.

Gina said...

All this talk about these books that promote certain kinds of relationships, setting goals ect is fine but it is being sugar coated to say the least. First reading these kinds of books is not helping people and promoting literacy, that is just what IBO's say to justify the fact that they read nothing else. Second, these books and their content are being misconstrued. The information these books give is meant to be used to accomplish something. What are you accomplishing if you are continuously reading the same message in different books but not seeing any results? It is contrary to what many of these books preach.

Clearly IBO's do not practice the SMART goals teachings...

There is always talk of IBO's helping people, which is never a bad thing but is that all your doing? Is that why you started a business, because you don't need to shell money out on seminars and books in order to help others. Is all this helping others actually doing something for your business? Is that what you are focusing on and if so why?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
You're reasonably successful with your job... and it's just as reasonable to loose it one day. Sounds fair. But I won't argue with you because you're as clueless and as childish as Joecool.

Anon - what exactly is clueless and childish? That I am pointing out basic intrinsic flaws in the so-called Amway opportunity? That's childish? That's clueless? How?

In fact, I would think people would be THANKFUL that someone pointed out how they could potentially lose their shirts if they got involved in Amway! Wow. Who's childish now - me for wanting people to not throw money away or you for wanting people to bury their heads in the sand screaming LALALALAL at the top of their lungs? Who's clueless? It would seem to me that without any real facts to back up any of your claims you are the one who is clueless.

As for the anon who wondered what would happen if I lost my job, I ask this - what would happen if all of your customers - oops! I'm sorry, your DOWNLINE, because you probably don't have many real customers outside of the Amway distribution line - were unable to buy your products or switched to less expensive items that they could get at Walmart?

I don't sweat a few hundred bucks of lost income. Thankfully I have money saved if I lose my job AND I was smart enough to have back up education and training I can fall back on to replace my job. I don't think you can fault any of this logic.

-Living in the Real World

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry to say but Amway is not a "so-called opportunity". Amway has been around for 50 years and being an acredited business with the BBB since 1979 makes Amway a strong opportunity. That calls into question your so-called expertise on the Amway subject. You're a clueless individual but you sound convincing and that makes you pretty dangerous.
When I look back at my parents telling me why Amway doesn't work, why Amway won't work for me, they sounded very convincing, every single day. But my mom dropped the ball when she said the classical line "I would try that thing for one week and if I don't see results, I QUIT"!
My parents' theoretical expertise on Amway: 100/100.
My parents' real expertise/involvement with Amway: 0/100.
Comforting score! So, keep Living in the Real World!

Joecool said...

Amway has been around 50 years. Yes, but you are not Amway.

Your success in Amway? 0/100?

Anonymous said...

Joecool, why do you keep on acting stupid? Of course I'm not Amway. I don't have to be Amway to have the life I want. I can't be Amway in the first place. I'm myself. But I use Amway for business purposes and I will use Amway for the next 50 years and beyond. Happy now?

Anonymous said...

Everybody who has something bad to say about Amway/Quixtar has simply not experienced it the right way or is discouraged by the business because they did not become millionaires overnight. I don't care what I hear about the business, I care about WHAT I SEE and what I see is thousands of financially free people! I bet everyone who smacks down on the business is broke.

Goodbye ... :D

Anonymous said...

you're right. they are, or knew someone who got broke by joining the "business". you're not fooling anyone, anon, so cut the crap!