One of the many things that IBOs are badly misguided on is the concept of dreams and fighting for dreams. A dream is basically a long term goal. Someone might dream about playing in the National Football League. To accomplish that dream, one might play high school and/or college level football. For most, the dream will end. No matter how much someone wants to play in the NFL, only so many people are proficient enough to be able to make the team. Even fewer are elite players that become stars. So while you might fight for your dreams, there is also an alternate reality.
In the Amway business, via the "systems" such as WWDB or Network 21, the leaders will often sell hopes and dreams to the downline. That the downline can be retired at the age of 29, walking the beaches of the world while the income just rolls in forever and ever. These kinds of "dreams" would be the same as hoping to win the powerball lottery. You may have seen a few who did it but the chance of you duplicating it is very unlikely. Slim to none is your chance in reality. Even those who might achieve diamond will find it difficult to maintain.
Another things uplines will often do is tell anecdotal stories about crabs keeping each other in a bucket when one tries to escape, or about monkeys preventing each other from grabbing bananas at the top of the pole. While the stories may be interesting and even true, it doesn't necessarily apply to the Amway business. While it is true that an IBO may have friends and family who are skeptical about Amway, it is with good reason. Many people have gone through the Amway business with no success. Many people have lost money doing everyting they were advised to do by upline. There is a track record of financial disasters associated with Amway and the attached "systems". It's not like there's a long list of people who have walked away from Amway with the cash rolling in and not a care in the world. Ever wonder why none of the crown ambassadors have exercised the option to "walk away"?
I think people should have dreams. I think people should pursue their dreams. I also think people need to know that certain dreams can come true. There also needs to be a degree of reality in their dreams. There will always be some inspirational person such as a "Rudy" who overcame great odds to accomplish a dream, but the untold reality is that there were probably many many young men who dreamed of playing for Notre Dame that year. Likely, no one else accomplished the unlikely dream like a Rudy. What I am saying is that earning a nice income and having the option of early retirement can be acomplished in many ways. You might be choosing to use Amway to accomplish your financial dreams and that is your right. But the reality is that very few people have made all their financial dreams come true due to the Amway opportunity, as compared to the tens of millions who have tried.
Keep fighting for your dreams, but keep in mind that you might need a plan B and a dose of reality.
Tuesday, February 28, 2012
Amway IBOs Are Successful!
Success is subjective. Someone making ten dollars might be considered successful. For others, nothing less than a barrel of cash will suffice. One other important point is that there are undoubtably some very successful people in Amway. I am sure that some Amway diamonds are quite well off and enjoy some of the finer things in life. But the reality is that these successes are very very rare and many of these success apparently are not sustainable as many people are led to believe. The more likely scenario is is an IBO making a few dollars a month while spending more than that on training. They are losing money but they think they are successful. The reality indicates otherwise.
But the bigger issue in the Amway opportunity is where the success comes from. Sure, many people want to "go diamond" and live in luxury while barrels of cash roll in. But what is unknown to many, is that the few who enjoy the lifestyle and trappings do so at the expense of their downline. The downline move the volume and the downline purchases the system materials, both of which is profitable for the upline. Because Amway products, admittedly are not commonly sold to people who are not IBOs, then anyone can conclude that upline success comes from the pockets of the downline. Most downline would be better off writing a check for $100 each month to their upline and not participating in the business or buying products at all.
This in itself would not be such an issue if the system actually churned out new successes frequently AND if the downline were not led to believe that the system is the key to their success. But less than one half of one percent of IBOs ever reach platinum and out of those who do, only a tiny fraction of one percent ever attain the diamond level. But the business has tens of millions of people who tried and could never achieve what was promoted. Lack of effort may be a factor, but when that many people try and fail, it's evident that the system is flawed as well. The rate of success is comparable to a lottery, which is sad when you consider that Amway is not a game of chance.
To summarize, it is possible for someone to achieve a level of success in Amway, but it is so difficult and so rare that IBOs probably have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning than they do of achieving a significant level in the Amway business. Some people are successful, but it is usually at the expense of their downline. The catch is that uplines will teach their faithful downline IBOs that attending a function or buying a standing order is success, regardless of whether an IBO is earning a profit. So many IBOs think they're successful but they are simply fooling themselves with the help of their upline.
Success is undeniable, but sadly for the vast majority of IBOs, it is also unattainable, at least in the Amway opportunity.
But the bigger issue in the Amway opportunity is where the success comes from. Sure, many people want to "go diamond" and live in luxury while barrels of cash roll in. But what is unknown to many, is that the few who enjoy the lifestyle and trappings do so at the expense of their downline. The downline move the volume and the downline purchases the system materials, both of which is profitable for the upline. Because Amway products, admittedly are not commonly sold to people who are not IBOs, then anyone can conclude that upline success comes from the pockets of the downline. Most downline would be better off writing a check for $100 each month to their upline and not participating in the business or buying products at all.
This in itself would not be such an issue if the system actually churned out new successes frequently AND if the downline were not led to believe that the system is the key to their success. But less than one half of one percent of IBOs ever reach platinum and out of those who do, only a tiny fraction of one percent ever attain the diamond level. But the business has tens of millions of people who tried and could never achieve what was promoted. Lack of effort may be a factor, but when that many people try and fail, it's evident that the system is flawed as well. The rate of success is comparable to a lottery, which is sad when you consider that Amway is not a game of chance.
To summarize, it is possible for someone to achieve a level of success in Amway, but it is so difficult and so rare that IBOs probably have a better chance of winning the lottery or being struck by lightning than they do of achieving a significant level in the Amway business. Some people are successful, but it is usually at the expense of their downline. The catch is that uplines will teach their faithful downline IBOs that attending a function or buying a standing order is success, regardless of whether an IBO is earning a profit. So many IBOs think they're successful but they are simply fooling themselves with the help of their upline.
Success is undeniable, but sadly for the vast majority of IBOs, it is also unattainable, at least in the Amway opportunity.
Sunday, February 26, 2012
IBOs Cause Amway The Most Damage?
What I observe very frequently is new IBOs posting about the virtues of Amway and the Amway business. I believe most of these IBOs are not profitable and have only learned what their upline has taught them. They do not have adequate knowledge to defend the basic criticism about Amway. The often wind up diverting and deflecting the conversations on forums and blog, and then eventually when the new IBO runs out of ammunition for defense, they resort to name calling, insults and/or extolling Amway's virtues such as their 10.8 billion in sales last year, which is great for Amway, but does nothing for the IBOs. Amway's increase in sales have nothing to do with an individual IBO's sales. Also, if I remember correctly, Amway increases have primarily come from foreign countries such as Korea and China. What good is that for a North American IBO?
What some of the Amway IBOs don't realize is that there are many former Amway IBOs or critics who have direct experience and are quite knowledgeable about the Amway business and how the basics of the business works, including the compensation plan. Therefore, when a new IBO tries to tell tall tales or to stretch the truth about their earnings and expenses, it sticks out like a sore thumb when the situation is analyzed and examined. Often, the IBO, now cornered, has nothing left but to leave the discussion or dig in and insist that they are correct. Because basic math often tells the truth, and IBO might be stuck with no answers. Then the broke losers, quitters, jealousy and other insults come flying.
What these IBOs don't realize is that prospects or information seekers can see and follow the discussion and more often than not, the IBOs are making monkeys out of themselves with silly unrealistic claims of success, or outrageous claims such as being in Amway for 6 weeks and they are already making $6,000 a month for example. When you factor in these tidbits along with IBOs who trick people into attending meetings, and other deceptions and lies told about the Amway opportunity and you have a recipe for disaster. IBOs may not know it, but they themselves are causing the most damage to Amway's reputation. They think they are defending Amway but they are actually making things worse. Many companies have critics. Walmart for example has many critics who think Walmart is evil, for various reasons. But Walmart employees don't go online to battles the critics and the criticism of Walmart is for putting other businesses in peril, or slippery floors, or not paying their employees enough. They aren't criticized for being a scam or a pyramid. Something that Amway continues to be criticized for. Whether Amway deserves that much criticism is up for debate, but Amway IBOs and defenders who insult and sling mud do more damage to Amway than a critic.
What some of the Amway IBOs don't realize is that there are many former Amway IBOs or critics who have direct experience and are quite knowledgeable about the Amway business and how the basics of the business works, including the compensation plan. Therefore, when a new IBO tries to tell tall tales or to stretch the truth about their earnings and expenses, it sticks out like a sore thumb when the situation is analyzed and examined. Often, the IBO, now cornered, has nothing left but to leave the discussion or dig in and insist that they are correct. Because basic math often tells the truth, and IBO might be stuck with no answers. Then the broke losers, quitters, jealousy and other insults come flying.
What these IBOs don't realize is that prospects or information seekers can see and follow the discussion and more often than not, the IBOs are making monkeys out of themselves with silly unrealistic claims of success, or outrageous claims such as being in Amway for 6 weeks and they are already making $6,000 a month for example. When you factor in these tidbits along with IBOs who trick people into attending meetings, and other deceptions and lies told about the Amway opportunity and you have a recipe for disaster. IBOs may not know it, but they themselves are causing the most damage to Amway's reputation. They think they are defending Amway but they are actually making things worse. Many companies have critics. Walmart for example has many critics who think Walmart is evil, for various reasons. But Walmart employees don't go online to battles the critics and the criticism of Walmart is for putting other businesses in peril, or slippery floors, or not paying their employees enough. They aren't criticized for being a scam or a pyramid. Something that Amway continues to be criticized for. Whether Amway deserves that much criticism is up for debate, but Amway IBOs and defenders who insult and sling mud do more damage to Amway than a critic.
Saturday, February 25, 2012
It's None Of My Business?
One of the things I heard as an IBO, and still witness today, is IBOs telling prospects that their income is none of your business. That you can refer to the compensation plan and see that you are compensated for volume. That your effort will yield different results than their efforts. All I can say is what a load of baloney. If you are researching the Amway business opportunity and the person contacting you won't disclose financial details of their business, red flags should pop up all over the place. Sure if your potential sponsor is new, they may not have much to share, but are they willing to share or claim that it's a trade secret?
Remember that your sponsor will receive a financial benefit from your purchases and/or sales for the life of his/hers and your business. Volume that you move, plus your downline volume will be a part of your sponsor's and upline's volume. For that kind of reward, you'd think that people would be open to sharing. Now I'm not suggesting you ask to see the sponsor's personal job income, but surely, you'd want to know what kind of time, effort and expenses you might expect, along with the kind of expected results that your potential sponsor may be experiencing so you can decide whether it's worth the investment of time and money, especially if you will be encouraged to purchase training from the upline.
If your potential sponsor has a downline, and has been around for a month or more, wouldn't you want to know what their results and expenses are? It's perfectly reasonable to ask and expect a response. Since Amway leaders often talk about duplicating, wouldn't you want to know what you would be duplicating? I wouldn't want to put in 12 hours a week plus a few hundred in expenses if the likely result would be a net loss. Now I understand that a new business might not prosper right away but what are the indicators that a profit is coming? If you have trouble selling and sponsoring downline, you will more than likely never make a net profit. If you are selling and sponsoring, but still not profiting, then what? Are the tools and training expenses eating up all your profits?
It is my conclusion that uplines and potential sponsors don't share this information because it would not be attractive to prospects. Most IBOs run at a loss, especially if they have tools and training expenses and they might be putting in a tremendous effort. We know that some diamonds have financial difficulty. We also know that some, possibly many diamonds make more money from the tools and training than from Amway. I believe that the Amway opportunity is a far cry from how it's presented with the mansions and sports cars. I believe the reality is a sad one. If you are told by your potential sponsor that their business income and/or results are none of your business, you should pack up your bags and run!
Remember that your sponsor will receive a financial benefit from your purchases and/or sales for the life of his/hers and your business. Volume that you move, plus your downline volume will be a part of your sponsor's and upline's volume. For that kind of reward, you'd think that people would be open to sharing. Now I'm not suggesting you ask to see the sponsor's personal job income, but surely, you'd want to know what kind of time, effort and expenses you might expect, along with the kind of expected results that your potential sponsor may be experiencing so you can decide whether it's worth the investment of time and money, especially if you will be encouraged to purchase training from the upline.
If your potential sponsor has a downline, and has been around for a month or more, wouldn't you want to know what their results and expenses are? It's perfectly reasonable to ask and expect a response. Since Amway leaders often talk about duplicating, wouldn't you want to know what you would be duplicating? I wouldn't want to put in 12 hours a week plus a few hundred in expenses if the likely result would be a net loss. Now I understand that a new business might not prosper right away but what are the indicators that a profit is coming? If you have trouble selling and sponsoring downline, you will more than likely never make a net profit. If you are selling and sponsoring, but still not profiting, then what? Are the tools and training expenses eating up all your profits?
It is my conclusion that uplines and potential sponsors don't share this information because it would not be attractive to prospects. Most IBOs run at a loss, especially if they have tools and training expenses and they might be putting in a tremendous effort. We know that some diamonds have financial difficulty. We also know that some, possibly many diamonds make more money from the tools and training than from Amway. I believe that the Amway opportunity is a far cry from how it's presented with the mansions and sports cars. I believe the reality is a sad one. If you are told by your potential sponsor that their business income and/or results are none of your business, you should pack up your bags and run!
Friday, February 24, 2012
Keep On Working - For Amway?
http://expeditionoftruths.com/2012/02/22/keep-on-working/
The funny thing is, build a solid platinum business with proper width in the Amway Business Opportunity and you could make just over double that pathetic pension of a RN. (not including Q-12 bonus) The benefit of that outside of monetary compensation is that you’ve helped some individuals or families have an opportunity to do the same as what you have. Again I’ll maintain we will never convince anyone to do what we do but the proof is in the pudding with the people we are working with and the many semi-retirement parties that happened last year."
**Our good friend Shaun over at WWDB - Expeditions of Truth has written an article about how people are in debt and that they will be working for a long time and then receive a paltry pension so they can basically live in poverty when they "retire". Shaun's proposal is to build a Q12 platinum business. Now a Q12 platinum business sounds great. But what exactly is a Q12 Platinum Business. Basically, a Q12 business is one where you have moved at least 7500 PV in volume, or about $22,000 in sales for all 12 months in the Amway fiscal year. According to the information on www.amway.com, the average compensation for a Q12 Platinum business is $51,437 annually. "
Now $51,437 gross income is a pretty good supplement to your investments and any other sources of income you might have. But there are things to consider. Someone who runs a Q12 platinum business is very likely to be involved in the training and tools. The costs associated with this can be significant and can eat up a lot of that Q12 income, especially if that Platinum business is a married couple or if they have children. Another thing to consider is what is the likelihood of someone achieving such a business? "
According to www.amway.com, there were 300,000 North American IBOs who received a bonus. Out of those, approximately 0.25% achieved Q12 platinum. One fourth of one percent. One percent would be 3000 IBOs and one fourth would be 750. SO there might be about 750 Q12 platinums in North America. So to earn $51,437, you need to be out showing the plan and helping new IBOs because many IBOs quit, and many do little or nothing and quit. You also need to spend money to train and motivate your downline. And for that, there is about one fourth of one percent who are able to achieve this status. "
For those who can evaluate a business, this doesn't sound like a very good prospect. We know that this takes a lot of effort by the platinum. There are expenses associated with running this type of business so yrur net might be $30K or less. And to maintain this business with no assurances, will take a lot of time and money. Is it worth your time and effort? For me, the answer is no. There are easier ways to supplement my retirement income. I wonder if Shaun is anywhere near a Q12 business?
**Our good friend Shaun over at WWDB - Expeditions of Truth has written an article about how people are in debt and that they will be working for a long time and then receive a paltry pension so they can basically live in poverty when they "retire". Shaun's proposal is to build a Q12 platinum business. Now a Q12 platinum business sounds great. But what exactly is a Q12 Platinum Business. Basically, a Q12 business is one where you have moved at least 7500 PV in volume, or about $22,000 in sales for all 12 months in the Amway fiscal year. According to the information on www.amway.com, the average compensation for a Q12 Platinum business is $51,437 annually. "
Now $51,437 gross income is a pretty good supplement to your investments and any other sources of income you might have. But there are things to consider. Someone who runs a Q12 platinum business is very likely to be involved in the training and tools. The costs associated with this can be significant and can eat up a lot of that Q12 income, especially if that Platinum business is a married couple or if they have children. Another thing to consider is what is the likelihood of someone achieving such a business? "
According to www.amway.com, there were 300,000 North American IBOs who received a bonus. Out of those, approximately 0.25% achieved Q12 platinum. One fourth of one percent. One percent would be 3000 IBOs and one fourth would be 750. SO there might be about 750 Q12 platinums in North America. So to earn $51,437, you need to be out showing the plan and helping new IBOs because many IBOs quit, and many do little or nothing and quit. You also need to spend money to train and motivate your downline. And for that, there is about one fourth of one percent who are able to achieve this status. "
For those who can evaluate a business, this doesn't sound like a very good prospect. We know that this takes a lot of effort by the platinum. There are expenses associated with running this type of business so yrur net might be $30K or less. And to maintain this business with no assurances, will take a lot of time and money. Is it worth your time and effort? For me, the answer is no. There are easier ways to supplement my retirement income. I wonder if Shaun is anywhere near a Q12 business?
Thursday, February 23, 2012
Amway Spring Leadership Functions?
I read about this topic on another blog and was inspired to write about my experience with Spring Leadership. I attended a leadership function as an IBO and I remember it quite well even though I've been removed from Amway for years now. The leadership function was where the upline diamond would have all of his new leaders (platinums and up) speak. Kinda makes me wonder how this function is going these days when it sure doesn't seem like a lot of new leaders are emerging, at least in my old group. Based on what I can see and hear, I don't think much has changed.
These new leaders would talk about their trials and how they stuck to the system, never gave up or quit, and now they have arrived. Some of them spoke about how they were able to retire their wives who now stay at home to care for their children. A noble task indeed. I had thought this was the great part about the business. It might interest my readers to know that not a single one of those leadership speakers from my IBO days are at the platinum level anymore and in fact, all but one or two of these nice folks are even in the business. My former sponsor was a platinum and he is one of the few holdovers from the old days, but he is no longer at the platinum level. Last I heard, he was somewhere around 2500 PV, which means he is likely operating at a loss if he is still dedicated to "core".
Spring leadership is the beginning of a run of functions that can really bankrupt IBOs. I'm from Hawaii and leadership was held in March, followed by family reunion (summer conference) in July and Free Enterprise Day (FED) in October. All of these functions are held during expensive travel times, thus IBOs who need to fly to functions pay a premium price to travel. Sadly, there was no visible or significant growth in the groups after these functions. Looking back, the major functions were just quarterly paychecks for the upline diamonds. If you do the math, you can easily discern that these diamonds may have made millions for a weekend of speaking and showing off their "diamond lifestyles". It apparently didn't benefit the masses of IBOs who attended.
I hope this information can help a prospect or an IBO to understand how some of these things work and allow for informed decisions to be made about joining Amway or for deciding whether or not to attend that next function. IBOs need to honestly assess their risk versus reward in making these decisions.
These new leaders would talk about their trials and how they stuck to the system, never gave up or quit, and now they have arrived. Some of them spoke about how they were able to retire their wives who now stay at home to care for their children. A noble task indeed. I had thought this was the great part about the business. It might interest my readers to know that not a single one of those leadership speakers from my IBO days are at the platinum level anymore and in fact, all but one or two of these nice folks are even in the business. My former sponsor was a platinum and he is one of the few holdovers from the old days, but he is no longer at the platinum level. Last I heard, he was somewhere around 2500 PV, which means he is likely operating at a loss if he is still dedicated to "core".
Spring leadership is the beginning of a run of functions that can really bankrupt IBOs. I'm from Hawaii and leadership was held in March, followed by family reunion (summer conference) in July and Free Enterprise Day (FED) in October. All of these functions are held during expensive travel times, thus IBOs who need to fly to functions pay a premium price to travel. Sadly, there was no visible or significant growth in the groups after these functions. Looking back, the major functions were just quarterly paychecks for the upline diamonds. If you do the math, you can easily discern that these diamonds may have made millions for a weekend of speaking and showing off their "diamond lifestyles". It apparently didn't benefit the masses of IBOs who attended.
I hope this information can help a prospect or an IBO to understand how some of these things work and allow for informed decisions to be made about joining Amway or for deciding whether or not to attend that next function. IBOs need to honestly assess their risk versus reward in making these decisions.
Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Amway Or College?
One of the things I've seen in recent years, is some examples of young people being discouraged from attending or looking into college. Instead they are told, to simply run an Amway business. These motivated young people may also be told that Amway is simply on the job training. Why bother paying tens of thousands of dollars for a formal education when they can join Amway and learn what they need for a fraction of a cost.
I honestly believe that uplines who discourage a young person from going to college in order to build an Amway business should be run out of town. These uplines obviously have their own interests at heart and not that of their downlines. They may cite an example of perhaps, a Bill Gates who left college to run Microsoft. While that is a great example, how many Bill Gates are there in the world? These uplines always want to promote the bext case scenario as if that were the norm. However, in real life, the likely scenario is just that. In those big functions, there are a handful of people on stage and masses of people in the audience. That's how it has been and that's how it will always be. Dreams and delusions on grandeur do not change the facts.
It is well documented that a formal college education will result in greater earning power for most people. Yes, there are exceptions but as a whole, college graduates fare much better that those who do not attend college. IBOs and information seekers should pay special attention to this next line: There is no unbiased documentation to indicate that running an Amway business and participating in a teaching system such as WWDB or BWW, or Network 21 provides any tangible and sustainable financial rewards. If you don't believe me, try putting BWW or WWDB as credentials when applying for a job and see what happens.
Amway's fiercest defender, IBOFB made a claim that over the years, hundreds of thousands of people have made full time incomes via the Amway business. This was a claim that Cindy Droog, an Amway representative said cannot be substantiated. Who are you going to believe? I trust what Amway says, not some foaming at the mouth pro Amway blogger.
If you are being discouraged from participating in college by an upline, please look very carefully at this post and please do ample research before making a decision that could negatively affect your life. While you may be shown picture of yachts and mansions, you have no way of knowing who owns those yachts and mansions. this has been proven beyond a doubt for me in light of some diamond home foreclosures and a triple diamond who was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy.
Friday, February 17, 2012
Funny Amway Tidbits!
"Strictly speaking, all make money, regardless. Zero is a real quantity. So, making zero money is like making zero money for it is measurable. If zero were irrelevant, why does the decimal system make use of this quantity? Just as the digit one has its virtues so does zero. Hopefully though, you are looking at more than zero if you like to play with numbers. If you don't, zero is a perfect, neutral choice. But don't complain about it to others! It's your choice!"
"Plus people get annoyed because the Amway people they know try to recruit them and sell them things, taking advantage of personal relationships to build their business."
"just about anything they can peddle out the door to the sellers who purchase it at inflated prices who then make money when the people under them sell the junk to somebody else who has been swindled with the "dream" of SCAMway. It is a pyramid scheme but they get around that with a few legal manuvers. They hold these giant pay your own way in rallies that consist of a bunch of oversexed hair sprayed bozo's manipulating people with motivational speeches."
" So he comes over and, you guessed it, tried to sell us on amway, both buying the products and becoming one of his sales "associates". We pretty much asked him to leave as politely as we could. Yes, this really happened and yes, we complained to the school. Amway people are some of the most brainwashed cultish people I have ever talked to. Right up there with boshbots"
"Another guy saying the economy and stock market were going to collapse and our only hope for the future is Amway since 401Ks and IRAs will all become worthless. Most of the tapes were full of religious right bilge too. I dropped out after finding out how much money the DeVos family donates to Repugs."
"While all you broke losers are going to work I will be sleeping in. I will make sure that I hire you to clean my toliets. And don't worry I will make sure that you get good benefits"
"The thing is, is that the higher-ups don't make their money on selling products, they make their money on selling audio tapes to the newbies, and intermediates. You know, the kind that supposedly will help you "sell better" ect... Anywho, that's my experience. They're all really just creepy."
"Early 90s. Friend of mine keeps hinting about his new "business," and how I need to "get on board." He is very coy and will not tell me the name of the company. Wife and I spend next two hours telling him, "This sounds just like that Amway crap," proceed to tell him every horror story we know about Amway, and essentially grind the Amway name into the ground. He leaves and I run into his brother a few days later. His bro asks me, "So, has my brother tried to sell you that soap stuff?" "Soap stuff?", I ask. "Yeah. He's selling that Amway crap." Never heard a peep from my friend about his new "business" again."
"Just admit that you didn't have the 'balls ' to build this business.
I going to be retiring in the next 6 mths making $5000 a mth. So eat that crybabies!"
"Yes, I am! My first cheque was $ 7.85 and my second cheque in going to be more. Why? Leverage! I just signed up my first business partner as part of my up until now, a one man team. Besides, he has someone who wants to sign up too. That's exciting news! I change some of my buying habits and I help others build business by teaching them how to do the same."
"For your information buddy, my last check was $ 15.66. That is more than eight, don't you think? So yeah, you can pass by $ 15.66 too on your way to financial freedom for you are not stuck at $ 15.66 just because that's the top money one can possibly ever make!"
"Plus people get annoyed because the Amway people they know try to recruit them and sell them things, taking advantage of personal relationships to build their business."
"just about anything they can peddle out the door to the sellers who purchase it at inflated prices who then make money when the people under them sell the junk to somebody else who has been swindled with the "dream" of SCAMway. It is a pyramid scheme but they get around that with a few legal manuvers. They hold these giant pay your own way in rallies that consist of a bunch of oversexed hair sprayed bozo's manipulating people with motivational speeches."
" So he comes over and, you guessed it, tried to sell us on amway, both buying the products and becoming one of his sales "associates". We pretty much asked him to leave as politely as we could. Yes, this really happened and yes, we complained to the school. Amway people are some of the most brainwashed cultish people I have ever talked to. Right up there with boshbots"
"Another guy saying the economy and stock market were going to collapse and our only hope for the future is Amway since 401Ks and IRAs will all become worthless. Most of the tapes were full of religious right bilge too. I dropped out after finding out how much money the DeVos family donates to Repugs."
"While all you broke losers are going to work I will be sleeping in. I will make sure that I hire you to clean my toliets. And don't worry I will make sure that you get good benefits"
"The thing is, is that the higher-ups don't make their money on selling products, they make their money on selling audio tapes to the newbies, and intermediates. You know, the kind that supposedly will help you "sell better" ect... Anywho, that's my experience. They're all really just creepy."
"Early 90s. Friend of mine keeps hinting about his new "business," and how I need to "get on board." He is very coy and will not tell me the name of the company. Wife and I spend next two hours telling him, "This sounds just like that Amway crap," proceed to tell him every horror story we know about Amway, and essentially grind the Amway name into the ground. He leaves and I run into his brother a few days later. His bro asks me, "So, has my brother tried to sell you that soap stuff?" "Soap stuff?", I ask. "Yeah. He's selling that Amway crap." Never heard a peep from my friend about his new "business" again."
"Just admit that you didn't have the 'balls ' to build this business.
I going to be retiring in the next 6 mths making $5000 a mth. So eat that crybabies!"
"Yes, I am! My first cheque was $ 7.85 and my second cheque in going to be more. Why? Leverage! I just signed up my first business partner as part of my up until now, a one man team. Besides, he has someone who wants to sign up too. That's exciting news! I change some of my buying habits and I help others build business by teaching them how to do the same."
"For your information buddy, my last check was $ 15.66. That is more than eight, don't you think? So yeah, you can pass by $ 15.66 too on your way to financial freedom for you are not stuck at $ 15.66 just because that's the top money one can possibly ever make!"
Thursday, February 16, 2012
Amway IBOs Are A Bunch Of Fakes?
One of the things I was taught as an IBO was to "fake it til you make it". I believe this is probably still true today, based on my interaction with and observation of IBO behavior. If you have followed the trials on various upline leaders such as Shores or Duncan and their financials, you can likely conclude that even the diamonds can be in financial difficulty. Some former diamonds who have left the business or quit have also expressed some similar sentiments.
But if you examine functions like "Dream Night", where the diamonds show off pictures of mansions, sports cars, boats and jetskis, you can conclude that the diamonds are implying that all of these goodies are a prt of their regular lifestyles, including the notion of waking up at noon and never having to work. I believe for most diamonds, this is just a facade, or an exercise in deception of the downline. I recall the diamonds urging the crowd to "come join us". Some IBOs want it so bad that tears roll down their cheeks as they watch the presentation. They honestly believe that 2-5 years working the system assures them of success.
The sad reality is that most IBOs, even with some hard work, will end up making nothing, or if fully engaged in the system of functions and cds and books, will end up with a loss. IBOs who stick around for a few years might see losses in the thousands or tens of thousands. All the while their upline may have been telling the group the perserverence is the key or that you will "make it" if you don't quit. Nothing could be further from the truth. There's no evidence that working hard and never quitting will result in anything but financial losses.
If diamonds and high pins are putting on a show, what about the average rank and file IBOs? I believe that many of them are also fakes. They may wear suits and talk about success, but ask one of them if they actually make a net profit and you'll get more excuses than answers. The typical answer will be that it's none of your business, or that their results are not indicative of yours because it depends on effort. This is just a diversion. If someone is promoting the opportunity and then flaunting a lifestyle that can allegedly be attained through the oppportunity, then the folks making the claim should be able to qualify their claims. It is normal in everyday business for potential business partners or investors to seek evidence or proof that the business produces what is being advertised. Why Amwayers believe otherwise is puzzling, but not surprising. I believe it is beceause many Amwayers are fakes, starting from the top.
But if you examine functions like "Dream Night", where the diamonds show off pictures of mansions, sports cars, boats and jetskis, you can conclude that the diamonds are implying that all of these goodies are a prt of their regular lifestyles, including the notion of waking up at noon and never having to work. I believe for most diamonds, this is just a facade, or an exercise in deception of the downline. I recall the diamonds urging the crowd to "come join us". Some IBOs want it so bad that tears roll down their cheeks as they watch the presentation. They honestly believe that 2-5 years working the system assures them of success.
The sad reality is that most IBOs, even with some hard work, will end up making nothing, or if fully engaged in the system of functions and cds and books, will end up with a loss. IBOs who stick around for a few years might see losses in the thousands or tens of thousands. All the while their upline may have been telling the group the perserverence is the key or that you will "make it" if you don't quit. Nothing could be further from the truth. There's no evidence that working hard and never quitting will result in anything but financial losses.
If diamonds and high pins are putting on a show, what about the average rank and file IBOs? I believe that many of them are also fakes. They may wear suits and talk about success, but ask one of them if they actually make a net profit and you'll get more excuses than answers. The typical answer will be that it's none of your business, or that their results are not indicative of yours because it depends on effort. This is just a diversion. If someone is promoting the opportunity and then flaunting a lifestyle that can allegedly be attained through the oppportunity, then the folks making the claim should be able to qualify their claims. It is normal in everyday business for potential business partners or investors to seek evidence or proof that the business produces what is being advertised. Why Amwayers believe otherwise is puzzling, but not surprising. I believe it is beceause many Amwayers are fakes, starting from the top.
Tuesday, February 14, 2012
Another Amway Story Of Deception And Brainwashing?
Author: Wally
Comment:
I live in the DC metro area and was approached by a guy in Best Buy about a "business opportunity". The word Amway was never mentioned once in the entire conversation. Instead, the focus was on his business and how there was a solid opportunity that shouldn't be missed. I figured it can't hurt, so I was open to listening. Even on his business card, it said nothing of Amway. The guy forwarded me a link to my email of his business which explored social networking. Again, kind of vague. It all came together when I went to my first Amway meeting.
Going in, I had no idea this was Amway. They all took pride in calling themselves entrepreneurs and were all extremely upbeat, positive, and social. The whole session was interesting, but when the speaker started talking about using your existing social networks on Facebook to potentially mine for sales clients...I was a little put off.
At this point, I basically said to my "sponsor", thanks but no thanks. However, he was strategic about his approach. He stayed away for a while, but came back later with a new opportunity to explore the world of the business. Honestly, even though I wasn't all that attracted to the business itself, I figured I may give it a go simply because it is taking me out of my comfort zone, is something brand new, involves numerous highly optimistic, social people, and seems harmless.
We reconnected, my sponsor and I, and I laid out the cash to get up and rolling. Every word out of my sponsor's mouth was a battle cry for victory. He did not know the meaning of defeat, or even the prospect of failing. He was relentless in his perspective that he is "winning". He is victorious in life and life is his to be conquered. It's here that I began to think that he is brainwashed. He seemed almost in denial to some things. Intentionally avoiding reality and choosing to be absorbed in a false notion. Weird.
After I was up and rolling, I attended the meetings, attended the social events, and mingled. I bought a bunch of stuff to meet the monthly PV goals, and also sold what I could. The selling was a lot more difficult than just buying the items myself. Even though the quality of the products are quite good, the prices are not exactly bargains.
After a few months of doing this, I realized that pitching products to family and friends, and in turn, alienating some of them, was not something I wanted to pursue any longer. It quickly became unappealing. And all the friendships made through Amway were friendships crafted through the desire for money. They were all financial transactions in form and substance. I was encouraged strongly to constantly bring new people in, and get them involved. Essentially, I would instruct them in the very same way that I was instructed by my sponsor. Inevitably, I would do my best to mentor them so that they have success, and their success became my success. Once one starts picturing how big the web can be, it can be hard to disengage.
My sponsor embodied very strong conservative Christian beliefs. He seemed to be infatuated with the Bible, and quoted freely from it. I think he thought of himself as a spiritual warrior as well as an entrepreneur. But it's not his products that he's selling. It's Amway's products. And he wasn't a savior; he is just a guy doing the best he can to motivate others to...sell products that are overpriced.
When I finally disentangled myself, he expectedly did not take it well. In so many words, he told me that your life won't be very meaningful once you leave Amway. He also said that he'll make a ton of money and is a part of a multi-million dollar business. That's all well and fine, but does he actually expect to be making millions? He is definitely brain washed by his upline guys. There's pictures of them rolling around in Ferraris and beautiful women...I guess he thinks this is his future.
In any case, I think the Amway business succeeds....at being a total failure. Why encourage marketing to family and friends? What does this say about the seller? That they value what the people closest to them can do for them on a monetary basis? What happens when the answer is no? Does this mean that this friend or family member is reprehensible or a traitor? Also, the products Amway makes can be bought at more or less the same quality at Target or Walmart, but cheaper. What's so special about Amway? Nothing. Starting a "business" is very different than "selling Amway stuff"".
And why the false sense of optimism, even when the reality is staring you right in the face? I suppose that a lot of these hardcore Amway folks are brainwashed into thinking that displaying vulnerability, or anything that might make you appear...human, is weakness. Too bad.
I think the correct term is used by the poster above, Terrance, "suckered". Please don't get suckered in. It all will look appealing. The Amway rep will likely be extraordinarily charismatic, friendly, social, and overall look like a very successful person. The people he's associated with will also be a positive, engaging bunch. However, beneath the surface lies a business, if it can be called that, which is a sham and a waste of time.
See all comments on this post here:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/#comments
Comment:
I live in the DC metro area and was approached by a guy in Best Buy about a "business opportunity". The word Amway was never mentioned once in the entire conversation. Instead, the focus was on his business and how there was a solid opportunity that shouldn't be missed. I figured it can't hurt, so I was open to listening. Even on his business card, it said nothing of Amway. The guy forwarded me a link to my email of his business which explored social networking. Again, kind of vague. It all came together when I went to my first Amway meeting.
Going in, I had no idea this was Amway. They all took pride in calling themselves entrepreneurs and were all extremely upbeat, positive, and social. The whole session was interesting, but when the speaker started talking about using your existing social networks on Facebook to potentially mine for sales clients...I was a little put off.
At this point, I basically said to my "sponsor", thanks but no thanks. However, he was strategic about his approach. He stayed away for a while, but came back later with a new opportunity to explore the world of the business. Honestly, even though I wasn't all that attracted to the business itself, I figured I may give it a go simply because it is taking me out of my comfort zone, is something brand new, involves numerous highly optimistic, social people, and seems harmless.
We reconnected, my sponsor and I, and I laid out the cash to get up and rolling. Every word out of my sponsor's mouth was a battle cry for victory. He did not know the meaning of defeat, or even the prospect of failing. He was relentless in his perspective that he is "winning". He is victorious in life and life is his to be conquered. It's here that I began to think that he is brainwashed. He seemed almost in denial to some things. Intentionally avoiding reality and choosing to be absorbed in a false notion. Weird.
After I was up and rolling, I attended the meetings, attended the social events, and mingled. I bought a bunch of stuff to meet the monthly PV goals, and also sold what I could. The selling was a lot more difficult than just buying the items myself. Even though the quality of the products are quite good, the prices are not exactly bargains.
After a few months of doing this, I realized that pitching products to family and friends, and in turn, alienating some of them, was not something I wanted to pursue any longer. It quickly became unappealing. And all the friendships made through Amway were friendships crafted through the desire for money. They were all financial transactions in form and substance. I was encouraged strongly to constantly bring new people in, and get them involved. Essentially, I would instruct them in the very same way that I was instructed by my sponsor. Inevitably, I would do my best to mentor them so that they have success, and their success became my success. Once one starts picturing how big the web can be, it can be hard to disengage.
My sponsor embodied very strong conservative Christian beliefs. He seemed to be infatuated with the Bible, and quoted freely from it. I think he thought of himself as a spiritual warrior as well as an entrepreneur. But it's not his products that he's selling. It's Amway's products. And he wasn't a savior; he is just a guy doing the best he can to motivate others to...sell products that are overpriced.
When I finally disentangled myself, he expectedly did not take it well. In so many words, he told me that your life won't be very meaningful once you leave Amway. He also said that he'll make a ton of money and is a part of a multi-million dollar business. That's all well and fine, but does he actually expect to be making millions? He is definitely brain washed by his upline guys. There's pictures of them rolling around in Ferraris and beautiful women...I guess he thinks this is his future.
In any case, I think the Amway business succeeds....at being a total failure. Why encourage marketing to family and friends? What does this say about the seller? That they value what the people closest to them can do for them on a monetary basis? What happens when the answer is no? Does this mean that this friend or family member is reprehensible or a traitor? Also, the products Amway makes can be bought at more or less the same quality at Target or Walmart, but cheaper. What's so special about Amway? Nothing. Starting a "business" is very different than "selling Amway stuff"".
And why the false sense of optimism, even when the reality is staring you right in the face? I suppose that a lot of these hardcore Amway folks are brainwashed into thinking that displaying vulnerability, or anything that might make you appear...human, is weakness. Too bad.
I think the correct term is used by the poster above, Terrance, "suckered". Please don't get suckered in. It all will look appealing. The Amway rep will likely be extraordinarily charismatic, friendly, social, and overall look like a very successful person. The people he's associated with will also be a positive, engaging bunch. However, beneath the surface lies a business, if it can be called that, which is a sham and a waste of time.
See all comments on this post here:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/will-amway-make-you-annoying/#comments
Amway Myth - Most People Sign Up And "Do Nothing"?
I see and hear this quite frequently, that most IBOs do nothing and quit. Quite often, it's some Amway apologist using this as a defense as to why the average earnings of an IBO is so low. Even if many IBOs "do nothing", they are still registered IBOs, and therefore count if you are measuring an "average". What Amway apologists like to do it exclude those who achieve nothing, but at the same time, count the high achievers in the average, thus giving a false impression of what the earnings are for a rank and file IBO. A better way in my opinion, would be to exclude the lowest and highest earners. That will give a more accurate idea of what someone can expect to earn in Amway.
But let's look at the term "do nothing". I cannot accept that most people do absolutely nothing. They were open enough to talk to someone about a business. They were motivated enough to be looking for something. They were motivated enough to (likely) attend a presentation and they were motivated enough to spend money on a starter kit. I would add that in many cases, groups such as BWW, WWDB or Network 21 for example, will add on somem charges to that starter kit, which may include some tools or possibly a ticket to the next function. If you actually visit the Amway website, you will see that actual enrollment costs less than $100. With the motivational groups tacking on fees, startup kits might cost several hundreds of dollars. That being the case, I can't accept that people did all of the above, paid to join and then let the starter kit sit there collecting dust.
It would be my educated theory that many people "achieve nothing". but they don't "do nothing". A more likely scenario in my opinion, is that people sign up, and they do contact others, try to sell the business or some products, but because of past IBO behavior, they encounter the term scam or pyramid, and an extremely low rate of people open to joining Amway. Knowing that you cant "go diamond" without sponsoring, many or possibly most IBOs try to get others to join. Because a lot of Amway products are not competitively priced and because of previous reputation issues, it is a very tough sell for new people. In my opinion, this is why Amway is growing faster in foreign countries, because IBOs have not yet damaged the name of Amway. Keeping this is mind, it is my guess that the real life average income is about $100 a month, not the $200+ that Amway recently reported, as they conveniently excluded over 50% of the IBO sales force.
If people are saying that all these folks "did nothing", ask them how they could possibly know if someone "did nothing". The answer is that they don't know. In my time as an IBO, I saw people come and go, some doing little, some doing a lot, but I never saw a single person sign up and not even open the starter kit or at least try to prospect and/or sell. I believe the Amway system is simply flawed and the low achievement levels of IBOs in general is a product of that flawed system. You're welcome to try and prove me wrong (but you can't).
But let's look at the term "do nothing". I cannot accept that most people do absolutely nothing. They were open enough to talk to someone about a business. They were motivated enough to be looking for something. They were motivated enough to (likely) attend a presentation and they were motivated enough to spend money on a starter kit. I would add that in many cases, groups such as BWW, WWDB or Network 21 for example, will add on somem charges to that starter kit, which may include some tools or possibly a ticket to the next function. If you actually visit the Amway website, you will see that actual enrollment costs less than $100. With the motivational groups tacking on fees, startup kits might cost several hundreds of dollars. That being the case, I can't accept that people did all of the above, paid to join and then let the starter kit sit there collecting dust.
It would be my educated theory that many people "achieve nothing". but they don't "do nothing". A more likely scenario in my opinion, is that people sign up, and they do contact others, try to sell the business or some products, but because of past IBO behavior, they encounter the term scam or pyramid, and an extremely low rate of people open to joining Amway. Knowing that you cant "go diamond" without sponsoring, many or possibly most IBOs try to get others to join. Because a lot of Amway products are not competitively priced and because of previous reputation issues, it is a very tough sell for new people. In my opinion, this is why Amway is growing faster in foreign countries, because IBOs have not yet damaged the name of Amway. Keeping this is mind, it is my guess that the real life average income is about $100 a month, not the $200+ that Amway recently reported, as they conveniently excluded over 50% of the IBO sales force.
If people are saying that all these folks "did nothing", ask them how they could possibly know if someone "did nothing". The answer is that they don't know. In my time as an IBO, I saw people come and go, some doing little, some doing a lot, but I never saw a single person sign up and not even open the starter kit or at least try to prospect and/or sell. I believe the Amway system is simply flawed and the low achievement levels of IBOs in general is a product of that flawed system. You're welcome to try and prove me wrong (but you can't).
Monday, February 13, 2012
My Upline Is Credible?
I recently read a comment from an Amway zealot. She mentions that someone's credentials must be considered when looking at information that is presented. I will comment that showing me a sports car or a fancy suit is not proof of financial success. Strange how they question credentials of everyone except their beloved leaders, some of whom told bold faced lies in the past. (i.e. Nobody profits from tools)
I find this subject ironic because not one single upline leader, as far as I know, has ever supplied bonafide credentials about themselves. The audience assumes that the person on stage has high credentials and is successful, but are they really? Certainly, if someone is wearing a diamond pin for example, that this person has at least achieved the diamond level as recognized by Amway, but the level may not be current, and the level doesn't indicate the kind of income this person earns from Amway. Amway's stance is once a diamond, always a diamond. The diamond pin is one that is like a lifetime achievement, meaning you could have been diamond for 6 months in 1982 and never qualified again, but you can still wear the pin as you are still recognized as having achieved diamond status. I guess Joecool should be refered to as 4000 PV if that is the case. That means I have more Amway credibilty than most of my site visitors?
What many people wrongly assume is that the diamonds buy homes and cars in cash, that they wake up at noon every day and participate in leisure activities all day while the cash rolls in. I have heard from some new IBOs, that their upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than a critic makes in a whole year at a job. That IBO became quiet when some critics offered to take that bet. I doubt that any diamonds would take that bet. How badly misled some IBOs are when it comes to their upline.
The truth of the matter is that as far as I know, only former diamonds have come clean about their Amway income. They are the only ones who spoke of credentials and accomplishments. Even critics of Amway will often openly speak about their experiences and achieved levels in the business. In the REAL business world, showing business tax returns and credentials are a normal part of doing business. It appears that only in the world of Amway is the supply of credentials and financial statements a big secret when it comes to business. Now I am not suggesting that IBOs or upline leaders should disclose their financials to the entire world, but certainly prospects and some downline should be able to see what their upline is doing financially(business only), especially if that is the basis for purchasing their standing orders and function tickets. And I refer to business (Amway and Tools) income and expenses only, not from other personal sources.
I believe that IBOs and upline leaders do not disclose that information because it would not be beneficial to them. If it were, they would likely publish it freely, just as they flash around copies of checks. IBOs and prospects should take this to heart and ask upline the tough questions. If uplines won't provide a straight answer, you should put on your running shoes and start running in the opposite direction.
I find this subject ironic because not one single upline leader, as far as I know, has ever supplied bonafide credentials about themselves. The audience assumes that the person on stage has high credentials and is successful, but are they really? Certainly, if someone is wearing a diamond pin for example, that this person has at least achieved the diamond level as recognized by Amway, but the level may not be current, and the level doesn't indicate the kind of income this person earns from Amway. Amway's stance is once a diamond, always a diamond. The diamond pin is one that is like a lifetime achievement, meaning you could have been diamond for 6 months in 1982 and never qualified again, but you can still wear the pin as you are still recognized as having achieved diamond status. I guess Joecool should be refered to as 4000 PV if that is the case. That means I have more Amway credibilty than most of my site visitors?
What many people wrongly assume is that the diamonds buy homes and cars in cash, that they wake up at noon every day and participate in leisure activities all day while the cash rolls in. I have heard from some new IBOs, that their upline makes more money taking a crap in the morning than a critic makes in a whole year at a job. That IBO became quiet when some critics offered to take that bet. I doubt that any diamonds would take that bet. How badly misled some IBOs are when it comes to their upline.
The truth of the matter is that as far as I know, only former diamonds have come clean about their Amway income. They are the only ones who spoke of credentials and accomplishments. Even critics of Amway will often openly speak about their experiences and achieved levels in the business. In the REAL business world, showing business tax returns and credentials are a normal part of doing business. It appears that only in the world of Amway is the supply of credentials and financial statements a big secret when it comes to business. Now I am not suggesting that IBOs or upline leaders should disclose their financials to the entire world, but certainly prospects and some downline should be able to see what their upline is doing financially(business only), especially if that is the basis for purchasing their standing orders and function tickets. And I refer to business (Amway and Tools) income and expenses only, not from other personal sources.
I believe that IBOs and upline leaders do not disclose that information because it would not be beneficial to them. If it were, they would likely publish it freely, just as they flash around copies of checks. IBOs and prospects should take this to heart and ask upline the tough questions. If uplines won't provide a straight answer, you should put on your running shoes and start running in the opposite direction.
Sunday, February 12, 2012
Why Do Amway Uplines Control And Manipulate Information?
There's been a new site visitor here who rus his own pro-Amway blog and he only allows rosy comments about Amway. He claims that his blog isn't about a debate but more to promote Amway and a positive atmosphere for his IBOs. He "claims" that his group and pin level was somewhat significant, but refuses to disclose where he's made a cent of profit. Technically, his profit means nothing if all his downline are losing money. This "leader" claims that he is from BWW. As far as I know, BWW and WWDB might be the worst AMOs, extracting every cent from their downlines by selling them ineffective tools and seminars.
What I don't understand is his refusal to post true comments on his blog. A specific example would be how he posted that Robert Kiyosaki is a multi billionaire. Now anyone with google can find that to be untrue in a minute. When I pointed it out, his blog was changed, but he refused to post the comment. Now either the blog author was ignorant, or possibly lying until he was caught and then tried to quietly change his post to reflect the truth. In my way on thinking, this is the insidious kind of leader that I wouldn't want to be associated with because he can't admit being wrong. Probably the kind of leader that wants his downline sheep to blindly follow him, even when he is clearly wrong. He also sent Joecool some private emails to justify why he doesn't want to post my truthful and respectful comments.
He is apparently trying to control the flow of information that goes to prospects and his IBO downline. For this reason, some people have compared Amway to a cult. Because the leaders control informationand try to shape the way their downlines think and react to certain situations and to respond to various questions in a certain way. This is why many critics have coined the term "tapespeak". For example, the comments about critical blogs being "bathroom walls". Ironically, it is the IBOs who are slinging the dirt on the bathroom walls. Some pro MLMers have left numerous insult and even veiled threats here. They unknowingly make Amway and themselves look bad. I'm simply sharing my experience and knowledge about the Amway business, but since it doesn't fit with the Amwayer's pro Amway and pro system stance, they result to name calling and threats. Says more about them than Joecool.
I believe these imformation controlling uplines are insidious and should be avoided. They want to shape the way you think and then take you to the cleaners. One function or one standing order at a time. The information is there, if you take the time to find it.
What I don't understand is his refusal to post true comments on his blog. A specific example would be how he posted that Robert Kiyosaki is a multi billionaire. Now anyone with google can find that to be untrue in a minute. When I pointed it out, his blog was changed, but he refused to post the comment. Now either the blog author was ignorant, or possibly lying until he was caught and then tried to quietly change his post to reflect the truth. In my way on thinking, this is the insidious kind of leader that I wouldn't want to be associated with because he can't admit being wrong. Probably the kind of leader that wants his downline sheep to blindly follow him, even when he is clearly wrong. He also sent Joecool some private emails to justify why he doesn't want to post my truthful and respectful comments.
He is apparently trying to control the flow of information that goes to prospects and his IBO downline. For this reason, some people have compared Amway to a cult. Because the leaders control informationand try to shape the way their downlines think and react to certain situations and to respond to various questions in a certain way. This is why many critics have coined the term "tapespeak". For example, the comments about critical blogs being "bathroom walls". Ironically, it is the IBOs who are slinging the dirt on the bathroom walls. Some pro MLMers have left numerous insult and even veiled threats here. They unknowingly make Amway and themselves look bad. I'm simply sharing my experience and knowledge about the Amway business, but since it doesn't fit with the Amwayer's pro Amway and pro system stance, they result to name calling and threats. Says more about them than Joecool.
I believe these imformation controlling uplines are insidious and should be avoided. They want to shape the way you think and then take you to the cleaners. One function or one standing order at a time. The information is there, if you take the time to find it.
Saturday, February 11, 2012
Amway Upline's Responsibility?
One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders and uplines is how they wlll tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they ultimately fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure. This is despite doing what upline advises, and often, that advice is advice that the IBO has paid for.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do little or nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I do not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 17 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery. With the odds so stacked against you, looking for an alternative means of making a dollar seems wise.
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from?
I will pass.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do little or nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I do not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 17 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery. With the odds so stacked against you, looking for an alternative means of making a dollar seems wise.
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from?
I will pass.
Friday, February 10, 2012
IBOs Lose Friends Because Of Amway?
I read on another blog recently written by an IBO, that your real friends would not walk away or cease to be your friends because of involvement in Amway. I do not believe your good friends would abandon anyone because of their involvement in Amway. However, they might avoid you for a while if you are always talking about Amway, or bugging them to join Amway. They might also feel that it is the IBO who has deserted the friendship in order to attend the endless number of Amway meetings and conventions.
As a former IBO myself, I know that I sacrificed many birthday parties and backyard barbeques. Our upline told us that these minor sacrifices would pay us back a hundredfold in the future. Looking back, not a single IBO crossline or my sponsor, ever got any significant payout from Amway. I believe that some IBO's relationships with friends and family may suffer, but not because of their involvement in Amway per say, but because the IBO is putting the relatiionships on hold while they pursue their Amway dream. It's almost like a friend who leaves home to attend an out of town college. Eventually they come home and your friendship is still there.
As an IBO, I remember our upline telling us that we needed to separate ourselves at times, to avoid negative. I believe this is still true today, based on what I see coming from current IBOs. IBOs might call it "association", where they think they are "hanging out" with successful people, but the reality is that the masses of IBOs are broke dreamers hanging out with each other.
Ironically, our upline taught us that we as IBOs were all friends for life. I recall a high level WWDB leader commenting that an IBO who "quits" is leaving their friendship, therefore the remaining group is not responsible for the failed relationship between current and former IBOs. When an IBO says friends for life, what they really mean for most is that you are friends for life as long as you never quit Amway. This is one of the reasons why Amway has been compared to a cult.
Shortly after leaving the Amway business, my father passed away. Not a single person upline or crossline called or visited to pay their respects or to express their sympathy. Friends for life indeed.
As a former IBO myself, I know that I sacrificed many birthday parties and backyard barbeques. Our upline told us that these minor sacrifices would pay us back a hundredfold in the future. Looking back, not a single IBO crossline or my sponsor, ever got any significant payout from Amway. I believe that some IBO's relationships with friends and family may suffer, but not because of their involvement in Amway per say, but because the IBO is putting the relatiionships on hold while they pursue their Amway dream. It's almost like a friend who leaves home to attend an out of town college. Eventually they come home and your friendship is still there.
As an IBO, I remember our upline telling us that we needed to separate ourselves at times, to avoid negative. I believe this is still true today, based on what I see coming from current IBOs. IBOs might call it "association", where they think they are "hanging out" with successful people, but the reality is that the masses of IBOs are broke dreamers hanging out with each other.
Ironically, our upline taught us that we as IBOs were all friends for life. I recall a high level WWDB leader commenting that an IBO who "quits" is leaving their friendship, therefore the remaining group is not responsible for the failed relationship between current and former IBOs. When an IBO says friends for life, what they really mean for most is that you are friends for life as long as you never quit Amway. This is one of the reasons why Amway has been compared to a cult.
Shortly after leaving the Amway business, my father passed away. Not a single person upline or crossline called or visited to pay their respects or to express their sympathy. Friends for life indeed.
Thursday, February 9, 2012
How To Make The "Real Money" In Amway?
Check out this testimonial:
http://strkngfang.hubpages.com/hub/The-Amway-Scam-Dont-Fall-For-It
The real way you make money!
The number one way for brainwashing to be effective is you have to keep the person constantly exposed. If they get a minute to think on their own then they will come to their senses. They had this covered. There were meetings every Monday night for a few hours at a select meeting or reception hall. Everyone would wear their business attire and bring their 5.00 a person fee, notebook, laptop or whatever you could jot down some infinite wisdom from your superiors.
From the meetings came the big events called "functions". These were anywhere from a few states away at a stadium or convention center and there were thousands that attended. Each one of these were a few hundred bucks. You had to go to all of these or you were a "loser" and didn't want your dream bad enough. I remember someone who risked losing his day job to go because of immense peer pressure from his leaders. They could care less if you lost your job, screwed up your marriage or life, you just had to be there!! We fell for this too and I even joined a bunch of people and slept outside in the cold on the concrete in sleeping bags the night before to get those front row seats, "was I an idiot"? That was a blessing in disguise because that is when I re inhabited my brain again, realized how stupid we've been and my wife and I left before the dumb thing ever started. We wasted the money and gas but we were happy to have broken free. These functions were just hours and hours of top rated sellers telling you all of their BS about how rich they were and how many cars and houses they had etc. It always struck me funny that none of these so called millionaires never appeared on the Forbes magazine "rich list of wealthiest people". These were full of applause, chants etc and fully resembled a cult gathering.
Back to more brainwashing. We had the meetings, and functions but we needed daily stimulation so how about books and tapes. There were tons of both of these materials that you were expected to purchase regularly. I think a new set of tapes came out each week. They were basically highlights from the functions with more "I'm rich" bragging. You were told to listen to these as much as humanly possible. At home, work, in your car, before you go to bed etc. The books were all disguised as "self help" and motivationals but really were clever ways to screw people over without them realizing it and making money off of them to boot.
I used to get defensive when this was called a cult. But looking back, that is exactly what it was. The more you exposed yourself, the deeper you got and it was hard to break free. Its kind of scary if you think about it.
Lets sum all of this up. You join, you are a business. Your friends join and become your "downline". You buy products at a discount and supposedly save money. Your friends buy the products, you make money off of them. The more you buy, the poorer you get but the "richer" your "upline" gets. Throw in the books, tapes, functions, meetings and you are headed for financial ruin, if you both have good jobs. If you are a young single person working part time somewhere then kiss goodbye your apartment, job, food, etc. Luckily we were at least smart enough to not bankrupt ourselves but our finances definitely took a big hit. Their excuse was the usual rant, "you have to spend it to earn it", "work now, play later". We saw some marriages in trouble, friendships end etc. In fact, we lost our two friends that got us involved after we quit. You were also highly encouraged to disassociate yourself from quitters because they will "try and steal your dream". This really hurt our feelings that we were treated this way by them. It was years later, after they finally quit that we became friends again. Needless to say we never dumped any of our non believing friends so at least we were smart enough to know the value of a friendship.
I'm sure these ploys are still out there, I know Amway/Quixtar is but most of our past team has been disbanded. Just be careful and realize there are no get rich quick plans that really work. The only growth you see from this is your stress level and your debt.
http://strkngfang.hubpages.com/hub/The-Amway-Scam-Dont-Fall-For-It
The real way you make money!
The number one way for brainwashing to be effective is you have to keep the person constantly exposed. If they get a minute to think on their own then they will come to their senses. They had this covered. There were meetings every Monday night for a few hours at a select meeting or reception hall. Everyone would wear their business attire and bring their 5.00 a person fee, notebook, laptop or whatever you could jot down some infinite wisdom from your superiors.
From the meetings came the big events called "functions". These were anywhere from a few states away at a stadium or convention center and there were thousands that attended. Each one of these were a few hundred bucks. You had to go to all of these or you were a "loser" and didn't want your dream bad enough. I remember someone who risked losing his day job to go because of immense peer pressure from his leaders. They could care less if you lost your job, screwed up your marriage or life, you just had to be there!! We fell for this too and I even joined a bunch of people and slept outside in the cold on the concrete in sleeping bags the night before to get those front row seats, "was I an idiot"? That was a blessing in disguise because that is when I re inhabited my brain again, realized how stupid we've been and my wife and I left before the dumb thing ever started. We wasted the money and gas but we were happy to have broken free. These functions were just hours and hours of top rated sellers telling you all of their BS about how rich they were and how many cars and houses they had etc. It always struck me funny that none of these so called millionaires never appeared on the Forbes magazine "rich list of wealthiest people". These were full of applause, chants etc and fully resembled a cult gathering.
Back to more brainwashing. We had the meetings, and functions but we needed daily stimulation so how about books and tapes. There were tons of both of these materials that you were expected to purchase regularly. I think a new set of tapes came out each week. They were basically highlights from the functions with more "I'm rich" bragging. You were told to listen to these as much as humanly possible. At home, work, in your car, before you go to bed etc. The books were all disguised as "self help" and motivationals but really were clever ways to screw people over without them realizing it and making money off of them to boot.
I used to get defensive when this was called a cult. But looking back, that is exactly what it was. The more you exposed yourself, the deeper you got and it was hard to break free. Its kind of scary if you think about it.
Lets sum all of this up. You join, you are a business. Your friends join and become your "downline". You buy products at a discount and supposedly save money. Your friends buy the products, you make money off of them. The more you buy, the poorer you get but the "richer" your "upline" gets. Throw in the books, tapes, functions, meetings and you are headed for financial ruin, if you both have good jobs. If you are a young single person working part time somewhere then kiss goodbye your apartment, job, food, etc. Luckily we were at least smart enough to not bankrupt ourselves but our finances definitely took a big hit. Their excuse was the usual rant, "you have to spend it to earn it", "work now, play later". We saw some marriages in trouble, friendships end etc. In fact, we lost our two friends that got us involved after we quit. You were also highly encouraged to disassociate yourself from quitters because they will "try and steal your dream". This really hurt our feelings that we were treated this way by them. It was years later, after they finally quit that we became friends again. Needless to say we never dumped any of our non believing friends so at least we were smart enough to know the value of a friendship.
I'm sure these ploys are still out there, I know Amway/Quixtar is but most of our past team has been disbanded. Just be careful and realize there are no get rich quick plans that really work. The only growth you see from this is your stress level and your debt.
Amway - A Tough Business To Succeed In?
There are some folks who try to sell the Amway opportunity as one that works in a good or bad economy. The pitch might be that people need household products such as soap or cleaners in a good or bad economy. While that may be true, in a tough economy, people will be looking for the bottom line, or the cheapest price. That is why Walmart is wildy successful. Walmart's slogan is "live better, save money". Being that Walmart sales exceed 400 billion dollars, it means that one day's sales exceeds Amway's annual sales. Clearly, price is important to consumers.
Amway apologists like to cite that not everyone buys a Porsche or a Lexus. While that is true, it is ridiculous to think Amway products are a Porsche or Lexus compared to other household products, and that consumers in genera;, even care about issues like that. What do IBOs do? Brag that their laundry soap is better than their neighbors?
Another silly tactic that some Amwayers employ is to drop names such as Robert Kiyosaki, or Warren Buffet, or Donald Trump. The fact of the matter is Robert Kiyosaki makes him money from Network Marketers, not from Network Marketing. Or, he's selling the IBOs books and seminars. Warren Buffet and Trump apparently own MLM companies, thus they also profit FROM network marketers and not from distributing the good themselves. It's a silly argument and anyone with some discernment can see right through it. I even see rumors spread by some IBOs that various movie stars or celebrities are involved in Amway. The truth is that there are some celebrities that are involved with Amway, but typically, they are paid to endorse Amway rather than being rank and file IBOs.
That brings us to whether Amway is a viable business opportunity. Let me put a disclaimer that people who may try to sell goods without participating in the training system might have a chance to make a few dollars, but these folks are quite rare. Many people get drawn into going diamond and chasing a dream. It is why you see big functions and conventions of people chasing dreams that likely won't come to pass. The typical IBO doesn't do much, if anything at all. Out of those who actually put in effort, a fraction of 1% might go platinum and an even smaller fraction of 1% might make some money. Amway's own numbers and the plan shown by many IBOs confirm this. Amway says the average "active" IBO makes just over $100 a month. We also know that it takes about 100 IBOs or more to form a platinum group. We know that many IBOs do little or nothing. That already provides a clear picture that only a small percentage of IBOs can ever reach that platinum level where you might net a small profit, depending on your business expenses.
Factoring in the Amway reputation and you have a very tough business opportunity. Now Amway itself may have done good things, but IBOs themselves have ruined the Amway name. They have lied or tricked people into attending recruitment meetings, or they have called people broke or losers, and even now, there is an IBO who frequents this blog, claming to be in BWW, that slings muds and name calls this blog author. For these reasons, Amway is a very tough business to succeed in, regardless of your level of effort.
Amway apologists like to cite that not everyone buys a Porsche or a Lexus. While that is true, it is ridiculous to think Amway products are a Porsche or Lexus compared to other household products, and that consumers in genera;, even care about issues like that. What do IBOs do? Brag that their laundry soap is better than their neighbors?
Another silly tactic that some Amwayers employ is to drop names such as Robert Kiyosaki, or Warren Buffet, or Donald Trump. The fact of the matter is Robert Kiyosaki makes him money from Network Marketers, not from Network Marketing. Or, he's selling the IBOs books and seminars. Warren Buffet and Trump apparently own MLM companies, thus they also profit FROM network marketers and not from distributing the good themselves. It's a silly argument and anyone with some discernment can see right through it. I even see rumors spread by some IBOs that various movie stars or celebrities are involved in Amway. The truth is that there are some celebrities that are involved with Amway, but typically, they are paid to endorse Amway rather than being rank and file IBOs.
That brings us to whether Amway is a viable business opportunity. Let me put a disclaimer that people who may try to sell goods without participating in the training system might have a chance to make a few dollars, but these folks are quite rare. Many people get drawn into going diamond and chasing a dream. It is why you see big functions and conventions of people chasing dreams that likely won't come to pass. The typical IBO doesn't do much, if anything at all. Out of those who actually put in effort, a fraction of 1% might go platinum and an even smaller fraction of 1% might make some money. Amway's own numbers and the plan shown by many IBOs confirm this. Amway says the average "active" IBO makes just over $100 a month. We also know that it takes about 100 IBOs or more to form a platinum group. We know that many IBOs do little or nothing. That already provides a clear picture that only a small percentage of IBOs can ever reach that platinum level where you might net a small profit, depending on your business expenses.
Factoring in the Amway reputation and you have a very tough business opportunity. Now Amway itself may have done good things, but IBOs themselves have ruined the Amway name. They have lied or tricked people into attending recruitment meetings, or they have called people broke or losers, and even now, there is an IBO who frequents this blog, claming to be in BWW, that slings muds and name calls this blog author. For these reasons, Amway is a very tough business to succeed in, regardless of your level of effort.
Wednesday, February 8, 2012
The Amway Dream Stealers?
This is an excerpt from a pro-Amway blogger who has been frequenting this blog. Note the "tapespeak".
http://amwayusa.wordpress.com/
"Wow! It’s amazing how some people can drive other nuts just like some of the anti-Amway bloggers who are spending their entire lifetime badmouthing Amway to cover their own inability to learn the success principles or their own lack of integrity. These bloggers have dedicated their life to stealing dreams of hundreds of thousands of people everyday by spreading their poison of negativity about this incredible company that has helped millions of people lead a life of significance."
Joe's commentary: I would like to note that my blog is not dedicated to criticism exclusively of Amway, but more of the motivational groups such as BWW or WWDB. I find it humorous that he accuses me of being unable to learn success primciples. If I recall, I was a 4000 pin with eagle parameters. I left because I didn't make money. And because I left Amway, I lack integrity? Our Amway friend should note that his leaders once stood on stage and swore that they made no profits from selling tools and functions. Is that integrity?
About stealing dreams, I'd like to know how running a blog is stealing someone's dreams? You mean to say that someone had a dream of going diamond, signed up, eventually read Joecool's blog and immediately quit? I don't understand how someone could give up on a dream because they read a blog. Also, if the average IBO who is on the system loses money (no net profit), then maybe my efforts are a good thing overall?
Oh and Amway helping "millions of people" living a life of significance? What exactly does that mean? Being that most IBOs "do nothing" and out of the rest, less than 1% make any significant income, I'd say this is an outright lie told by our friend.
http://amwayusa.wordpress.com/
"Wow! It’s amazing how some people can drive other nuts just like some of the anti-Amway bloggers who are spending their entire lifetime badmouthing Amway to cover their own inability to learn the success principles or their own lack of integrity. These bloggers have dedicated their life to stealing dreams of hundreds of thousands of people everyday by spreading their poison of negativity about this incredible company that has helped millions of people lead a life of significance."
Joe's commentary: I would like to note that my blog is not dedicated to criticism exclusively of Amway, but more of the motivational groups such as BWW or WWDB. I find it humorous that he accuses me of being unable to learn success primciples. If I recall, I was a 4000 pin with eagle parameters. I left because I didn't make money. And because I left Amway, I lack integrity? Our Amway friend should note that his leaders once stood on stage and swore that they made no profits from selling tools and functions. Is that integrity?
About stealing dreams, I'd like to know how running a blog is stealing someone's dreams? You mean to say that someone had a dream of going diamond, signed up, eventually read Joecool's blog and immediately quit? I don't understand how someone could give up on a dream because they read a blog. Also, if the average IBO who is on the system loses money (no net profit), then maybe my efforts are a good thing overall?
Oh and Amway helping "millions of people" living a life of significance? What exactly does that mean? Being that most IBOs "do nothing" and out of the rest, less than 1% make any significant income, I'd say this is an outright lie told by our friend.
Tuesday, February 7, 2012
Amway IBOs Can't Handle "The Truth"?
Joecool's blog has recently been frequented by an IBO from Texas. This IBO runs his own pro Amway blog. Good for him! What I find odd is that so many IBOs like to cultivate the comments on their blog. In other words, if you aren't wearing rose colored glasses and making postive comments, then they won't publish your comments. Another current WWDB IBO who runs his Expeditions of Truth blog, also won't publish comments.
Conversely, this blog allows both pro and cons. Free discussion is welcome and I even allow insults and jabs. Afterall, it's just a debate over a controversial company and frankly, the controversy and spotty reputation is well earned. There are countless stories of people mislead or straight out lied to about an "opportunity", or IBOs hiding the fact that they are being invited to an Amway meeting. There are still IBO leaders who use pictures of mansions or sports cars as proof that Amway works and that the same can be accomplished with 2-5 years of work. Or that you build it once and you can walk away with wealth beyond your dreams. In many cases, these are outright lies and in some cases, the diamonds on stage are actually in debt or having financial difficulty themselves. There's plenty of evidence on the internet,
So why do IBOs want to hide the truth? Is it because the truth isn't very flattering? Is the actual truth a net loss in the Amway business? Is it true that you are spending more on tools than you are generating in sales? Are you actually selling products to customers (non IBOs) are are you buying the 100 PV mostly by yourself? Are you promoting vitamins making claims without knowing anything about nutrition? These are some of the behaviors I have observed in some IBOs. Some of these behaviors are dishonest and unethical. Some IBOs have gone so far as to leave veiled threats on this blog as well. But IBOs still insist that they are "all good".
The truth is that the plan shown to many prospects reveals the reality. in a 6-4-2 or whatever version of the plan, there's only about 1 in 100 who reaches the platinum level. Factoring in that many IBOs quit or sign up and do nothing, we know already that less than 1% of IBOs reach platinum. We also know that an IBO dedicated to the "systems" such as BWW or WWDB have a lot of associated expenses such as functions, travel, cds and other materials. Thus a platinum, after expenses is likely making very little net income, if any. A study done in Wisconsin, while a bit dated, revealed that platinums in that State, averaged a net loss.
That is the truth. Seems like some IBOs can't handle it.
Conversely, this blog allows both pro and cons. Free discussion is welcome and I even allow insults and jabs. Afterall, it's just a debate over a controversial company and frankly, the controversy and spotty reputation is well earned. There are countless stories of people mislead or straight out lied to about an "opportunity", or IBOs hiding the fact that they are being invited to an Amway meeting. There are still IBO leaders who use pictures of mansions or sports cars as proof that Amway works and that the same can be accomplished with 2-5 years of work. Or that you build it once and you can walk away with wealth beyond your dreams. In many cases, these are outright lies and in some cases, the diamonds on stage are actually in debt or having financial difficulty themselves. There's plenty of evidence on the internet,
So why do IBOs want to hide the truth? Is it because the truth isn't very flattering? Is the actual truth a net loss in the Amway business? Is it true that you are spending more on tools than you are generating in sales? Are you actually selling products to customers (non IBOs) are are you buying the 100 PV mostly by yourself? Are you promoting vitamins making claims without knowing anything about nutrition? These are some of the behaviors I have observed in some IBOs. Some of these behaviors are dishonest and unethical. Some IBOs have gone so far as to leave veiled threats on this blog as well. But IBOs still insist that they are "all good".
The truth is that the plan shown to many prospects reveals the reality. in a 6-4-2 or whatever version of the plan, there's only about 1 in 100 who reaches the platinum level. Factoring in that many IBOs quit or sign up and do nothing, we know already that less than 1% of IBOs reach platinum. We also know that an IBO dedicated to the "systems" such as BWW or WWDB have a lot of associated expenses such as functions, travel, cds and other materials. Thus a platinum, after expenses is likely making very little net income, if any. A study done in Wisconsin, while a bit dated, revealed that platinums in that State, averaged a net loss.
That is the truth. Seems like some IBOs can't handle it.
Sunday, February 5, 2012
Joecool's Blog Surpasses 200,000 Site Visitors!
Just the other day, Joecool's blog surpassed 200,0000 site visitors. While it's not the most ever, it's significant as this version of the blog was created in the later part of 2009. It means that Joecool is able to share his experience with a somewhat significant number or site visitors and information seekers. This is actually the third version of Joecool's blog. The first one ended because the host did not maintain their site and then a second Joecool's blog (on blogger) was sabotaged. Counting the site visitors on this blog and the former Joecool's blogs, the site visitors have exceeded 500,000 site visitors.
Over the years, I have accumulated many messages of gratitude from people who were mislead by someone prospecting them and were able to make informed decisions about the Amway business. Some people decided not to join, some people asked me more questions and some people wanted to know more about my experiences. I know that Amway canot control what all of their IBOs say, but when there is ample evidence that large groups of IBOs are told or taught unethical practices, then the corporation should try to verify the misinformation that is being spread and to stop it and to discipline the wrongdoers. There isn't much evidence that anything is or was done about those who abuse their downlines for their own interests.
There have been times when Joecool was ready to quit blogging, but thanks to IBOfightback, AKA David Steason, it made me dig in my heels and continue blogging to keep people innformed about some important points that they might need to know about Amway, and in particular, the AMOs such as WWDB or Network 21. Not all AMOs and uplines are unethical, but there are enough of them around where corrective actions should be taken. Until there is more visible progress, Joecool will continue.
Over the years, I have accumulated many messages of gratitude from people who were mislead by someone prospecting them and were able to make informed decisions about the Amway business. Some people decided not to join, some people asked me more questions and some people wanted to know more about my experiences. I know that Amway canot control what all of their IBOs say, but when there is ample evidence that large groups of IBOs are told or taught unethical practices, then the corporation should try to verify the misinformation that is being spread and to stop it and to discipline the wrongdoers. There isn't much evidence that anything is or was done about those who abuse their downlines for their own interests.
There have been times when Joecool was ready to quit blogging, but thanks to IBOfightback, AKA David Steason, it made me dig in my heels and continue blogging to keep people innformed about some important points that they might need to know about Amway, and in particular, the AMOs such as WWDB or Network 21. Not all AMOs and uplines are unethical, but there are enough of them around where corrective actions should be taken. Until there is more visible progress, Joecool will continue.
Saturday, February 4, 2012
Critical Mistakes Made By IBOs?
Tomorrow is Superbowl 46. In recent superbowls, the games have been somewhat close. In close games, a critical mistake made will cost your team the game. A good example of this would be the reason why San Fransisco is watching the superbowl on TV instead of playing it it. A critical mistake.
In my opinion one of the most critical mistakes that many IBOs make is to ignore the bottom line when analyzing their Amway businesses. I recall, in my experience, business building IBOs, sadly, taught by their uplines to ignore losses, or to view losses as investments into their businesses, or that money is really not important, because you keep building the business and the "money will be there", which is not true. Some uplines may teach that the business is more about making friends or being a nicer person. All of these things may be nice side benefits of reading personal development books, etc., but when running a business, the most important goal should be to turn a profit.
For many IBOs, their businesses consist of listening to standing orders, attending functions and meetings, but not focused on selling products and earning a net profit. And for most IBOs, nobody can blame them as upline may give them bad advice and because the Amway business is person to person selling, it is so inefficient that many groups end up teaching IBOs to simply buy their own volume and get others to join the business. For groups who operate primarily in this manner, you are probably running an illegal business because new and existing IBOs can profit only by continuing to add more downline IBOs in the hope that they too, will buy their own volume and sponsor others.
When you look carefully at the business plan, whether it is 6-4-2, 9-4-2 or some other variation, the majority of these business building IBOs will have low volume and likely to earn only about $10 a month. But to earn that $10 a month, you are likely to have to spend $300 on products, and if you are on standing order, voicemail and functions, then you likely spend anywhere from $150 to $250 monthly (or more) to participate in the teaching system. Thus these IBO's bottom line is a net loss! It is only when you are able to sponsor many downline that your losses will get smaller and you will only profit when you have a sizable downline. That means your bottom line is a loss. And while Amway defenders will argue that Walmart doesn't even give you $10 a month, you can certainly get more products from Walmart for $300 than you can get from Amway for the same price. Walmart will match any advertised price on a product that they and a competitor may carry. Also, Walmart's advertising reaching millions of people, which is much more effective than person to person. While Amway runs some ads now days, they do not directly drive customers to IBOs. The vast majority of IBO business is still to themselves and their downline, and not to non IBO customers.
I challenge IBOs to look objectively at their bottom lines. It is likely a new loss. If it is, ask your upline how long this is expected to last. Set hard goals and if you are doing what is advised by upline and results to not improve, you may have to ask yourself what willl change to make your business profitable. Basically, if you aren't adding active downlines and customers regularly, you aren't gooing anywhere and are likely to be running your business at a loss month after month after month. It won't take long before you realize that you have lost thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars.
As a former IBO with a 4000 PV business with eagle parameters, I was not making a net profit. I saw my bottom line and although doing and achieving what my upline advised, there was no money. I decided the effort, time and money invested wasn't worth it. Plus my upline started to interfere in my personal life. I saw my bottom line and wasn't satisfied, and I left Amway. I later discovered the lies my upline had fed me to keep me in the business and to keep me buying tools. It is why I started blogging. For now, my bottom line is to get the truth out about the tools scam run by upline. That is Joecool's bottom line.
In my opinion one of the most critical mistakes that many IBOs make is to ignore the bottom line when analyzing their Amway businesses. I recall, in my experience, business building IBOs, sadly, taught by their uplines to ignore losses, or to view losses as investments into their businesses, or that money is really not important, because you keep building the business and the "money will be there", which is not true. Some uplines may teach that the business is more about making friends or being a nicer person. All of these things may be nice side benefits of reading personal development books, etc., but when running a business, the most important goal should be to turn a profit.
For many IBOs, their businesses consist of listening to standing orders, attending functions and meetings, but not focused on selling products and earning a net profit. And for most IBOs, nobody can blame them as upline may give them bad advice and because the Amway business is person to person selling, it is so inefficient that many groups end up teaching IBOs to simply buy their own volume and get others to join the business. For groups who operate primarily in this manner, you are probably running an illegal business because new and existing IBOs can profit only by continuing to add more downline IBOs in the hope that they too, will buy their own volume and sponsor others.
When you look carefully at the business plan, whether it is 6-4-2, 9-4-2 or some other variation, the majority of these business building IBOs will have low volume and likely to earn only about $10 a month. But to earn that $10 a month, you are likely to have to spend $300 on products, and if you are on standing order, voicemail and functions, then you likely spend anywhere from $150 to $250 monthly (or more) to participate in the teaching system. Thus these IBO's bottom line is a net loss! It is only when you are able to sponsor many downline that your losses will get smaller and you will only profit when you have a sizable downline. That means your bottom line is a loss. And while Amway defenders will argue that Walmart doesn't even give you $10 a month, you can certainly get more products from Walmart for $300 than you can get from Amway for the same price. Walmart will match any advertised price on a product that they and a competitor may carry. Also, Walmart's advertising reaching millions of people, which is much more effective than person to person. While Amway runs some ads now days, they do not directly drive customers to IBOs. The vast majority of IBO business is still to themselves and their downline, and not to non IBO customers.
I challenge IBOs to look objectively at their bottom lines. It is likely a new loss. If it is, ask your upline how long this is expected to last. Set hard goals and if you are doing what is advised by upline and results to not improve, you may have to ask yourself what willl change to make your business profitable. Basically, if you aren't adding active downlines and customers regularly, you aren't gooing anywhere and are likely to be running your business at a loss month after month after month. It won't take long before you realize that you have lost thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars.
As a former IBO with a 4000 PV business with eagle parameters, I was not making a net profit. I saw my bottom line and although doing and achieving what my upline advised, there was no money. I decided the effort, time and money invested wasn't worth it. Plus my upline started to interfere in my personal life. I saw my bottom line and wasn't satisfied, and I left Amway. I later discovered the lies my upline had fed me to keep me in the business and to keep me buying tools. It is why I started blogging. For now, my bottom line is to get the truth out about the tools scam run by upline. That is Joecool's bottom line.
Friday, February 3, 2012
Why Amway The Corporation Is Successful?
One of the biggest shams taught by some upline is the nearly exclusive "buy from yourself" philosophy. I'm not saying that supporting your business is a bad idea, but are you really supporting yout own business? If your upline teaches this, you are being mislead and I will explain why.
When you think you are buying from yourself, you are really buying from Amway. Amway makes the profit from the sales. If you buy enough, they toss you a small rebate. An IBO is in reality, a distributor or a middleman who works solely on commission. Also, if you are a new IBO at the 100 PV level, you will receive 3% in the form of a bonus while your uplines and sponsor will split up approximately 29 to 30% in bonuses off your efforts. Who says "do the work and get paid"?
Think of it this way. If your spouse was in the business of making and selling cookies, would you make money by eating all of the cookies? Even if you received a small rebate for cookie making materials, you would not profit by eating all the cookies yourself. You would have to sell the cookies to customers to have cash in your pockets. I truly do not understand how IBOs get duped into thinking they can be successful and earn money buy purchasing and consuming Amway products without selling much. Amway's own numbers suggest that IBOs do not sell much, except to their own downline and to themselves. Also, this practice might make your business illegal.
Also, uplines who sell tools that teach this method are more than likely selling you a flawed system that nearly guarantees you will lose money. A rare few IBOs will emerge now and then who can overcome overwhelming odds and barriers and reach higher levels in the business, but I would have to guess that much more than 99% of IBOs who sign up will never even get close to emerald or diamond. Sadly, the buy from yourself system will only profit the higher level distributors, as well as your purchase of tools, which rewards upline for teaching a flawed system.
If you really want to succeed in MLM, the "best" way if you will, is probably to start your own MLM company. It certainly is not by being a distributor.
When you think you are buying from yourself, you are really buying from Amway. Amway makes the profit from the sales. If you buy enough, they toss you a small rebate. An IBO is in reality, a distributor or a middleman who works solely on commission. Also, if you are a new IBO at the 100 PV level, you will receive 3% in the form of a bonus while your uplines and sponsor will split up approximately 29 to 30% in bonuses off your efforts. Who says "do the work and get paid"?
Think of it this way. If your spouse was in the business of making and selling cookies, would you make money by eating all of the cookies? Even if you received a small rebate for cookie making materials, you would not profit by eating all the cookies yourself. You would have to sell the cookies to customers to have cash in your pockets. I truly do not understand how IBOs get duped into thinking they can be successful and earn money buy purchasing and consuming Amway products without selling much. Amway's own numbers suggest that IBOs do not sell much, except to their own downline and to themselves. Also, this practice might make your business illegal.
Also, uplines who sell tools that teach this method are more than likely selling you a flawed system that nearly guarantees you will lose money. A rare few IBOs will emerge now and then who can overcome overwhelming odds and barriers and reach higher levels in the business, but I would have to guess that much more than 99% of IBOs who sign up will never even get close to emerald or diamond. Sadly, the buy from yourself system will only profit the higher level distributors, as well as your purchase of tools, which rewards upline for teaching a flawed system.
If you really want to succeed in MLM, the "best" way if you will, is probably to start your own MLM company. It certainly is not by being a distributor.
Thursday, February 2, 2012
CORE. A Sure Way To Lose Money?
Breakdown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use:
1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate
Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).
Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.
Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.
Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..
What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.
That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't. :D
1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate
Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).
Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.
Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.
Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..
What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.
That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't. :D
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