Tuesday, March 29, 2016

Amway IBOs Are Not Fooling Anyone!

I often get a kick out of IBOs who make outlandish claims and then mumble and stumble to back up their claims, or to offer at least a verbal explanation of their claims. I believe many IBOs, newbies in particular are loaded with enthusiasm, but lacking in actual Amway business knowledge. Certain groups have a certain philosophy, which sometimes comes out in a conversation. But I believe in most cases, the philosophy is one of talk and not action. Amway's own numbers seem to back up many of the claims made by critics, such as the low amount of sales to people who are not IBOs.

I recently saw a blog post by a WWDB IBO who says he got a nice tax refund from the government, mainly because of his business deductions. He also claims that his Amway business is booming and that he is making money. Now I'm not a tax genious, but if you are writing off losses on your business, you would get a refund, and if you were actually making money, then you would actually be paying more taxes because your taxable income would then be higher. It's amazing how some IBOs will try to fake success in ways that clearly show they are putting up a facade.

Other obvious ways are IBOs who say they are brand new in Amway but are making over $5000 a month. Now I do believe that it can be "possible" to make some money in Amway, and obviously some people do make a nice income from Amway, but generally, these will be tenured higher pins. The vast majority of IBOs do not make any significant money from Amway and if these same IBOs were participating in the teaching systems such as Network 21, WWDB, or BWW, then they are likely ending up with a net loss because the monthly expenditures for voicemail, functions, books and standing orders exceed (by far) the monthly income for most IBOs.

Even diamonds who want to flash around fancy cars and gadgets. I believe many of these diamonds are not making as much as they want you to believe and in fact, if you just get a calculator and figure out what a flashy lifestyle costs, you will see that it will simply not be sustainable on Amway income, even when you factor in the tools income. Some diamonds whose incomes were exposed when they quit or had legal proceedings indicate that while a diamond (or higher) income may be nice, it will not sustain the kinds of lifestyles they speak about at Dream Nite functions, or other functions where great wealth is displayed. Diamonds are very likely living in debt just like the rest of society. Why would they be any different, especially when they clearly live lives of excess?

They may be fooling (some) new prospects, but they do not fool me and I hope they do not fool you.

20 comments:

Jerry D. said...

How much does a Diamond make? And what is the source of that information? Thanks, Joe!

Ben Dover said...

My Amway upline diamond just bought a new Ferrari, Lamborghini, and...oh yeah THE MOON!!! AMWAY IS THE BEST! He invited me to party with him and take some "Moon Rocks" hahahaha...BE JELLY!!! We are going to go so high!!! THE WORLD WILL BE OUR B****...You know nothing about success!

Joecool said...

I wonder if these diamonds actually own those Ferraris or if they rent them when they attend functions and meetings?

Joecool said...

A diamond on average used to make about $150K from Amway and that information was from Amway.com I believe the average income is higher now but I'm not sure exactly what it is.

If you are searching, be sure to make the distinction between a diamond and a founder's diamond. A founder is somewhat rare as they have qualified diamond each month in Amway's fiscal year.

Also, a diamond receives most of their income in the form of annual bonuses so their monthly regular income might be somewhat small.

Ben Dover said...

My guess is that they lease, and then they try to write it off under their "business"...Why stop at manipulation and deceit of your downline right???

Joecool said...

I think you have a good point. Leasing sounds right.

I suspect that many diamonds live very ordinary lives and the videos and hype that they show at functions are their once a year vacations or leased cars and rented mansions.

Basic math shows you cannot support a diamond lifestyle even if you made $250 to $500K a year gross income.

You certainly are not buying mansions and sports cars in cash like the diamonds often claim.

Jerry D. said...

Thanks, Joe!

Ben Dover said...

Mike Carroll was the first speaker I saw, and he went on and on about how to budget. He would talk about not using checks, credit cards, or anything else because once you run out of paper you understand you can't spend anymore. Sure, for a 10 year old that makes a lot of sense, but obviously that's not practical when you are making decent sized purchases. Then at the end of the "show", because it wasn't a good source of learning, he brought out his Amway credit card (A true WTF moment), and bragged about how he makes money every time his downline makes a "schwipee"(His lingo for using the card). Everyone stood up and laughed and cheered...I felt like I was the only person thinking what the hell is happening? Do people really have the attention spans of squirrels.

Joecool said...

As an IBO, I also saw Mike Carroll speak. The teaching you refer to is one of many contradictory teachings. For example, upline would say get out of debt, which is good advice, but they would not hesitate to tell you to charge your next function or to buy standing orders, even if that meant more debt for you.

Have you noticed there are very very few diamonds in the US recently?

Anonymous said...

It seems that in Amway the only debt that is tolerated is debt that you owe to your up-line. And an Amway credit card is not a credit card.

Ben Dover has it right -- people in Amway have the attention span of squirrels.

Joecool said...

The downline blindly trust the upline because they think the upline has the secret that will push them to the promised land of early retirement and walking on beaches.

Ben Dover said...

I'm honestly not sure how many diamonds there are, but there were still plenty at the FED I attended, and they were all carbon copies of each other. Some were older, and some were single, but for the most part they were all 50+, married living in middle America, wasting tons of money and resources on their outrageous lifestyles and then flaunting it in front of the people they were fleecing.

As I mentioned in a previous post, that FED had a diamond inauguration ceremony fit for a king, and I was told that they were the first new diamonds in 3 years...and they had been in the business for 10 years...AND they were the children of current executive diamonds...just insane. I wouldn't be surprised if I actually saw all of the remaining diamonds at this extravaganza as Ron and Georgia Lee Pruyear even made an appearance...they were greeted with the most outrageous standing ovation I've ever seen lasting at least 10 minutes. They couldn't even begin to do their speech because the crowd was so riled up. I don't think the President would've gotten as big of a standing ovation as they did. It was unreal.

Joecool said...

Amway recognizes people as "once a diamond, always a diamond". So once you receive the pin, you are considered a diamond forever. However, a diamond who is no longer qualified does not receive the diamond bonuses.

But here's where the "residual income" might come from. A diamond who no longer qualifies can still get on stage and speak and earn income from functions and cds.

I'm not sure why couples like the Puryears are so revered. They build the business a long time ago before social media and the internet. I don't know if they are currently qualified or not but they certainly do not have the experience on how to build a big business in this day and age.

Ben Dover said...

They will always be qualified as Crowns, because they started and currently run WWDB/World Wide Group. All of the diamonds are below them, and they get a piece of the entire group's sales. They are the only people in a position where they can walk away. Although, I heard they were trying to sell their monstrosity of a house and having a horrific time. Apparently they built it in a cul de sac and tastelessly ruined the community aesthetic by building a colossus that did not belong. I'm not even sure why they would have to sell, or want to sell their house, but it does bring up interesting questions.

Joecool said...

Yeah, when the economy was struggling a handful of years ago, Greg Duncan, a triple diamond was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy. His financials were made public and it's public record. Some WWDB diamonds also had mansions for sale, not just the Puryears. Here's a link:
http://www.amquix.info/wwdb_house_sale.html

Joecool said...

Ben, what I'd really like to know is whether these houses had mortgages that the diamonds could no longer afford or if they had paid them off in cash like they claim?

Even is someone made $500K (gross) per year, that still isn't enough money to buy a million or multi million dollar home in cash.

Having a mortgage is no big deal but the diamonds lie and say they pay cash for everything.

At a function I attended, Greg Duncan said people who took out loans were stupid because then you have to pay interest. I wonder how Greg felt when he could not pay the 3-4 mortgages he had on his Montana properties and had to file for bankruptcy. I guess stupid comes to mind?

I think you're right. Probably only the people with downline and qualified diamonds might be able to walk away and still make good money in Amway. The rest of the diamonds will work until their death.

Anonymous said...

It does not matter how much a diamond makes. One will be a diamond for a yeat or two and then you fall back to zero

Joecool said...

Yes, but diamonds can keep earning by speaking at functions - where the real money is.

Ben Dover said...

The amount of capital they would have tied up into those material possessions would be insane if they paid for it in cash. There is no way that these guys paid for even 20% of the wealth they show in the videos, because they are showing wealth in the excess of 8-9 figures...it is literally not possible for these guys to hold onto that kind of wealth unless they did some serious investing (Something tells me that most of the diamonds/crowns don't have any business acumen, and probably wouldn't know what an investment is).

My fiance's cousin just did something baffling that I think relates to Greg Duncan's shenanigans. He is a manager for iHeartRadio/Clearwater Marketing, and he makes a really good living (Decent 6 figure range with many workers below him also making high 5's to low 6's). With that being said, he had a house for years that appraised for roughly $300,000 when fixed up (extremely reasonable for his income), and he had a mortgage of $270,000 on it still. I'm not even sure how that is humanly possible to literally have paid nothing into your house for that long, and just ride out on the minimums and interest, but he managed to find a way. He has now purchased a new house before selling and fixing up his current house, and has gone into an extreme amount of debt. He ended up asking his uncle (my future father-in-law) for $15k to essentially bail his ass out for repairs to the current house, because all he does is spend. Clearly, as you stated from your other post, it is not about what you earn but rather what you keep. These guys have the financial IQ's of toddlers, and if their videos are even remotely accurate to the lifestyles they are claiming to have, then they are all in horrendous amounts of debt.

Joecool said...

Basically, the lifestyle that diamonds show off are lifestyles of excess spending. Fancy suits, sports cars, lavish vacations, mansions. These kinds of things are not sustainable on an average diamond income, especially when you factor in business expenses and taxes.

But this display of wealth is needed to generate excitement about hopes and dreams so they can recruit more IBOs.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if most diamonds weren't actually in debt rather than being millionaires. As I posted recently about traits of millionaires and diamonds don't fit the profile. In fact, most millionaires don't act wealthy, they just have good financial habits.