Sunday, June 5, 2016

Amway Is Foolproof?

One of the pitches I heard about Amway was that it's basically "foolproof". And what the speaker meant by that is that when you join Amway, you either make money or save money because you save about 30% by buying from Amway. On the surface, that sounds like a can't lose proposition. How can you lose when you either make some money by selling tuff or at least save money by purchasing at a discount from your own "store"? Well, if you take the statement at face value, you'd be a fool not to sign up right?

But most people do not check into these statements with a skeptical eye. Amway products are generic in nature, but premium in price. And they have to be because Amway's "generous bonus" to the IBOs are included in the cost of their products, not to mention Amway has to make a decent profit. For that reason, you would be hard pressed to find similar products at WalMart or Costco that aren't a fraction of Amway's prices. Take the time to do your own comaprisons and you'll see. Also, the 30% savings that is referred to is 30% off full retail price for Amway products. It is not a 30% savings from comparable products you can get at WalMart or Costco. So a good example, is Amway's flagship vitamins (double x). Double X multi vitamins (30 day supply) is around $80 at full retail price and the IBO price is about $52 or so. So yes, you have significant savings as an IBO from the full retail price. However I can get a 90 day supply of multi vitamins at Costco or WalMart for about $24.99. You can argue quality, but there are no unbiased scientific studies that indicate that Amway vitamins are any better.

The other flaw in Amway's foolproof opportunity is Amway's money back guarantee. Amway has a decent return policy on products that aren't satisfactory and they may even refund your sign up costs for the business opportunity. But here's the flaw in that refund policy and in the past, resulted in Amway settling (without admitting fault) to pay damages for people who lost money running Amway businesses. presumably following bad business advice by Amway uplines and diamonds. So look at it this way. You get lured into a business opportunity where you can spend significant time and money after signing up to be an Amway IBO. You can follow upline advice amd you can still lose a lot of money. For all your lost time and money, Amway might make some product refunds and refund your small sign up fee. Despite what you may hav been told, you may have endured sigificant financial risk running an Amway business. Some people have lost thousands, tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands trying to build their business. It's no consolation to get some product and possibly the sign up fee refunded.

Therein lies the scam. If you are trying earnestly to follow upline advice and "hang in there" and try your best, you may expend significant time and money trying to succeed in your Amway business. Big deal if Amway gives back the sign up fee. What about the thousands you may have spent on standing orders, attending functions, ordering books, and "driving the miles" to succeed. While Amway may have some small print disclosures about how you may not achieve the same results, there certainly isn't the kind of full disclosure that legitimate business opportunities have. And Amway is legally separate entities from their IBOs because they are "independent". In my opinion, the only way to stop this is to hold Amway accountable for lies and deception used by their IBOs. And that's how it should be - because if someone lies or deceives to get someone to sign up and build the business or to sell products, Amway is certainly a beneficiary of those lies and deceit. They should be held accountable.

Amway is far from foolproof, unless you have been fooled.

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

If in the past Amway has settled some cases with persons claiming business losses from bad advice from up-lines, then Amway does admit to some responsibility for the lies of its IBOs and various LOS systems.

It sounds like a legally anomalous situation. IBOs are "independent," but despite this, Amway is willing to pay damages to make up for the lies they tell recruits.

How much has Amway paid out in these settlements?

Joecool said...

If you look up Pokorny and Blenn, you can find a $150 Million dollar settlement. I believe Amway took the blow for some of the tenured diamonds. But they did so without admission of guilt.

Anonymous said...

"Easy", "foolproof", "you can do it" are the pitches used to attract gullible recruits.

Joecool said...

Spot on!

Lorikeets said...

My observations of my friend's involvement have been unsettling.
For those who have been in an out of amway (because I've found there is no point talking to people who still believe - no logic there) can I ask

1 my friends up line platinum tells me he makes $1000 week. He said this to my face. He says it to my friend. How do I know if it's true? Is it ever true?

2 doesn't the fanaticism ring alarm bells? Business isn't so emotionally charged

3 if so few people make money why is there a seemingly endless parade of success stories?

4 how long did it take to get disillusioned? I'm hoping my friend cools his jets. He's spent $10k and hours and hours.

Thanks

Joecool said...

Lorikeets,

Your friend's upline platinum says he makes $1000 a week. Challenge him to produce a schedule C which would show his business profits and losses. If not, it's just words. I could tell you I make a thousand a week running this blog if I didn't have to back up the claim.

Yes, fanaticism is needed in Amway because people aren't actually making money.

The endless parable of success is a fa├žade. Once you earn a "pin" in Amway such as platinum, Amway recognizes it forever even if you no longer qualify. Thus it's possibly that diamonds and emeralds have the pin but aren't making much from Amway. They can however, still earn speaking fees and income from the tools.

It can take a long time to snap out of it. My former sponsor joined about 1994. This is 2016 and he's still going. Some people come to their senses quickly, some take longer. Good luck to your friend.

Lorikeets said...

Thank you that actually clarifies some of the odd things.

A few more if you have the patience...
My friend seems to have at least 3 platinums that hone in on him. And they socialise together with people in their different down line legs. Isn't this frowned upon?

I'm yet to hear of anyone higher than platinum.

I also don't get how buying $400 per month of consumables is 'growing a business'? I refuse to learn the PV system but if it clears every month why do this?

Lastly my friend's sponsor has quit or is not active. They don't vilify him just say he's busy but will be back. This is different to what I've read often happens in sites detracting from amway.

Keep up the good work with this blog.



Joecool said...

Lorikeet,

Hanging out with upline and downline is okay in the Amway world. What they frown on is cross lining. So for example, IBOs from different upline diamonds should not socialize. I presume because if they did, some secrets might be exposed.

Buying your own consumables is over shopping, but it's called "growing your business" in Amway. You will not make money buying your own products. It's apparent to everyone but the IBOs.

They upline won't de-edify or vilify someone who is inactive or on a break. But if you quit and become "negative" about Amway, they will call you all kinds of vile things.

It's almost like a crime family. I've even had several death threats running this blog, presumably by Amway IBOs, although I cannot prove it. But who else would make threats about articles on a blog?

Lorikeets said...

Death threats my goodness. Do any show up later after leaving and retract that stuff?

My friend's up line know I loathe amway and don't believe any of it. Perhaps I'm being subtly vilified. They do get holidays every year I'm told. Does this mean they are making the money they say?

Is there a minimum spend amount to stay in each month? is it for a chance at the holiday? Why keep buying goods each month to a certain amount even if the points are miles from the platinum targets?

Joecool said...

Lorikeets,

I only got threats when I was running this blog. None have come recently.

Short of seeing a profit loss statement or a bonafide schedule C, anyone can make income claims if they don't have to verify it. I actually asked my upline how he was doing and he said none of my business. But think about it. If you are asking me to trust you and spend my money on Amway stuff and tools to allegedly hep me, I have every right to ask you to prove that your income claims are accurate. If you can't get verification, I would run the other way.

There's no minimum requirement by Amway, but the upline will say you need to do 100 PV because that's what you want your downline to "duplicate" or copy. But 100 PV costs around $300 or so. IBOs keep buying and hoping to sponsor downline who will also do the 100 PV. If you can recruit enough people, you can eventually make money off your downline.



Lorikeets said...

It's horrendous, all of it. I just am grateful to get answers from someone without an agenda. Helps me understand what is happening with my friend. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Joe, don't forget to tell Lorikeets that even when you were doing around 4000 PV per month, you still weren't making money in Amway. In fact, you were losing money, because of the tools and functions scam.

Maybe that fact will shake up her friend.

Joecool said...

I think she knows. She's been emailing me.