Tuesday, August 2, 2016

The Amway Iceberg?

I was in discussion on another forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, care, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode. Sadly, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of someone's business "exploding".

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world. This is how the leaders get their unethical teachings to downline, by sending the information downline via the platinums.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literally laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this source of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accpet rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benfit of upline, you should demand this information.

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different? Seek a true picture of what you are getting into.

72 comments:

Anonymous said...

Go ask other "indirect" sellers what the cost of item is that you buy and they hide behind SKU codes.
If you have understood the plan you would not have these misunderstandings.
Remember Upline role is to guide you & others in the team to grow their business based on the experience they have, you can always use your own judgement and make final decision what's good for your biz.
"Tools" are available to be leveraged by each IBO and upto them if they want to.. Information is same, understanding is different for each individual.

Joecool said...

What a silly comment. Upline role is you guide you? Well then upline must be doing on heck of a poor job. I rarely ever hear about new diamonds in the US.

And with no new diamonds, that tells me the tools have no leverage and don't work.

Of course, anyone can prove it by showing and proving that they are profitable in Amway following the "system".

So far no takers.

Anonymous said...

Well then those Upline suffer too ... And there are Diamonds hence Platinums ,Emeralds and vice-versa... Sitting outside on seat will only make you a spectator, remember players make money ...
FYI- http://directsellingnews.com/index.php/view/meet_direct_sellings_billion_dollar_markets?

Joecool said...

"Players make money"

Not true in Amway. Many players in Amway lose money.

You could say only players make money in gambling, which is true. But most gamblers lose money. Same applies to the Amway business - because of business expenses.

Anonymous said...

You are not "in" , you are working WITH as IBO... Those who loose don't understood the Business Plan (not just what Amway offers, for that matter any other business).
Every business have biz expense, business opportunity offers here have way less than if you have to start any other biz...
I only Hope & Pray you and those reading Get educated about direct selling industry as a whole.

Joecool said...

I know the Amway business plan quite well. It's designed for many to fail.

Anonymous said...

Uplines will only guide if you buy tools from them. If you don't then upline will say that you are "not teachable".

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 2:32 PM --

Amway is a complete fraud, and like all MLM or direct-selling schemes, it is not in any way like a genuine, honest business.

Success in Amway only happens when people below you in your line send money upwards to you. Their constant monthly and yearly expenses (for idiotic "tools" and even more idiotic "functions") are what make higher-up in their up-line rich.

A real business doesn't profit by impoverishing those lower in the ranks for the benefit of those higher in the ranks. There may be differences in wages, but EVERYONE GETS A WAGE. In Amway, especially as run by the utterly corrupt LOS subsystems like BWW, WWDB, TEAM, and several others) thousands of low-level IBOs are continually drained of money.

That's not a business. That's a criminal racket. And anyone who defends Amway is a lying piece if shit.

The person who needs to get educated is you, Anonymous. "Direct selling" is a rip-off and a con.

Anonymous said...

Well get prepared then soon most of that wage is going to go to machines/bots/ robots ...
In "indirect selling" you don't see the person who make money but of course they do(some billion dollars indirect distributors)... In here you can make More money than person who sponsored you... Get educated from proper sources and use your common sense , direct selling is the oldest form of selling.

Joecool said...

Anon at 1:42 PM, go read about the FTC and Hebalife. Go learn what's coming down the pipe for the MLM industry. Verify actual sales to customers who are not affiliated with the MLMs. That might be the death sentence.

Dan L. said...

My life, and finances, have improved immeasurably ever since I shook loose of "the biz" and its "tools" for good. Am I not "successful"? I had a goal, and I achieved it!

Anonymous said...

You don't know then what base FTC use to base their decisions on this industry, by default buying "indirectly" you are already part of "Multi-Levels" ;)... Get Educated from right sources...

https://www.dsa.org/docs/default-source/ethics/internalconsumptionwhitepaper.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Joecool said...

Anon at 5:46, you can post all the propaganda you want. The fact is that the MLM industry is littered with dead bodies and people who lost money chasing dreams. I doubt if even 2% of MLMer's ever make a net profit and that's a very generous estimate. Amway.com says .26 of IBOs reach the Gold level and that's only about 1 in 400. And the Gold level has not even been proven without a doubt to be profitable.

Anonymous said...

Who is posting what readers can make their own decisions... Well it's their loss if they lost their dreams...
We start with profit(study the business plan carefully) , FYI, some latest growth numbers and more education from right sources --
http://www.achievemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/L6300ENR_MAG_SummerAchieveMagazine.pdf

Don't give me averages because outside of it every customer is in -ve, and we don't educate people to be average, we are leadership driven biz, we educate to empower and serve...
GOD Bless you ...Take Care.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 5:46 --

You are either a dreamer or an idiot.

MLM schemes don't do any genuine "selling" at all! Their only purpose is to recruit more and more persons into the MLM "opportunity." The vast bulk of products pushed in MLM schemes are purchased NOT by the general public, but by members of the MLM plan.

What sort of a business doesn't bother with sales to the general population, but instead forces its salespeople to purchase products that they don't need? Use your brain -- MLMs like Amway are interested in getting new IBOs who will pay an assortment of fees. Amway doesn't really care how much product these IBOs manage to push. And this is true for all MLM schemes with their absurd "direct selling."

You think that robots and computers are going to eliminate wages in the world? I guess that makes you both a dreamer and an idiot.

Joecool said...

Anon at 6:35, you might be trying to teach people to be leaders, etc. But the reality is that there are only so much room for a diamond, etc. If a diamond generally has 1000 downline, then you'll have one leader and a 1000 who aren't. Teaching them to be leaders isn't going to change that fact. Amway is a scam where you think everyone has an even and fair chance to succeed. That's where you're badly mistaken.

Anonymous said...

FYI, now that technolgy helps anyone to buy direct, feel free to buy DIRECT from the Amway's website to EXPERIENCE the world class products.... B2B selling is also a selling most C don't know or are ignorant about.
FYI no one forces anyone, as a educated human being you make your own choice from where to buy.
You want to see impact of automation, watch the businesses around who are closing stores or putting in kiosk or open 24*7 without human employees...
GOD Bless You..

Anonymous said...

It's about Opportunity, those 1000 also have equal opportunity to build their communities of business associates and customers.... Like I said leadership driven..
All have same products from the IBO joined 50 yrs ago to 5mins ago... What is different is individual mindset ..

Joecool said...

The 1000 all have the same opportunity like someone who buys a lottery ticket akk have the same chance to win. The fact is that for every diamond, there will be thousands who aren't. The pyramid system ensure this. If you have more diamonds, you simply have more lower level downline losing money.

You talk all theory but I'll bet you're operating at a net loss. Feel free to be the first to prove me wrong.

Anonymous said...

We start with profit... Study the biz plan... Wholesale plus profit sharing based on performance, retail wholesale difference as immediate profit.
Well right now those customers like you who buy indirectly are making someone a diamond..just will never have opportunity to know who and more importantly they themselves won't ever have an opportunity to become one..

Draw the org structure of any business you know and see if that resembles a pyramid, just that in direct selling business model we do performance based not when one join.
Just lack of education, and I don't blame you, because all your life you see indirect sellers use "Marketing and Adverse tising " to make money from con-sumers, In here we distribute that money to pro-sumers.

Joecool said...

What profit? Hardly ayone makes a profit except the diamond and the diamond relies on selling cds and functions for a large part of their income. Amway products are priced very high because the IBO bonuses are included in the cost. That's why a bottle of shampoo that costs $2 at Target costs $10 in Amway.

The org chart of a corporation may look like a pyramid but it's a corporate hierarchy. Even the lowest guy on that chart gets paid and makes money. The reason why Amway is a product pyramid is because the guys on the bottom make nothing or lose money and the guy on top is the only one of one of very few who make money.

You didn't answer my question about whether you have a net profit or not.

Anonymous said...

Profit is based on volume of products moved as per the business plan.. FYI in US Traget is part of affiliate partner ecosystem too.. So it's not just the price , it's about the quality and value.. Toyota and Honda also sells good cars, why people drive Mercedes or BMW?
And for those who give this price based comparisons, I told them dollar stores offer lower price than other indirect distributors, use those.... Or get educated on what we do to help people make money from what they already do and will keep doing.

So same here with difference, newest IBO can make $$$ and alongwith have opportunity to make more than his/her sponsor..(unlike in other hierarchy).

Of course I have,since the very first month... You read the achievemagazine link I shared for you and your readers and they can get better education on what we are all about... To empower people find their potential & then help others who want to empower others ..."People Helping People Help Themselves".
GOD Bless You and help you understand the potential you have and the opportunity Amway offers..

Anonymous said...

If you ask an IBO on how much they earn, they will just simply run away or make a lot of dramas and excuses on their involvement as an IBO.

But keep on asking, Joe, it is important to snap them out before they fall deep.

John Doe said...

I'm still waiting to hear from an IBO that can type, speak, or form any thought that isn't riddled with fallacies and errors. Also, it would seem every IBO posting on here has tremendous issues with the English language which leads to two conclusions:

1. The North American market is tanking, and the only new IBO's that are fresh with conviction and dedication to the cause are coming from other emerging markets.

2. The IBO's are simply uneducated idiots that couldn't make it in a 9-5 job.

I'm sure there is actually a mixture of the two...

This anonymous claiming to be educated and suggesting completely biased articles is a fascinating display of manipulation and limited cognitive development. It is truly entertaining to watch as he tries to prove his case with his horribly broken English, an inability to answer reasonable questions, a litter of canned Amspeak nonsense about prosuming, leadership garbage, and being a dreamer. The next responses should feature some wonderful notes about how long Amway has been around, the only people who fail are quitters, you can't be successful doing anything else.

Joecool said...

Notice how the Amway defender disappears and doesn't return once you start probing about "net profit"?

John Doe said...

To be fair, the Amway defender couldn't possibly know what net profit means. If the Amway defender actually took the time to look up the definition, then it may result in a painful reality check which is not to be confused with his pitiful Amway check.

Anonymous said...

Joecool .. Play fair .. Post the last comment to the Target 2$ post.. Reply was posted, if you selectively moderate the comments all I can say is GOD Bless You..

Joecool said...

"Joecool .. Play fair .. Post the last comment to the Target 2$ post"

It was in my spam folder and has been posted. It's dated August 7th at 7:32 AM.

Only pro Amway people moderate and delete posts or don't allow any comments.

Joecool said...

""Toyota and Honda also sells good cars, why people drive Mercedes or BMW?""

That's an odd comparison because Amway products are nothing like a Mercedes or BMW.

""newest IBO can make $$$ and along with have opportunity to make more than his/her sponsor..(unlike in other hierarchy).""

That's no big deal considering most people do nothing and quit.

""Of course I have,since the very first month... You read the achievemagazine link I shared for you and your readers and they can get better education on what we are all about...""

The achieve magazine is not credible evidence that you or anyone else made a net profit in Amway. Achieving a level means nothing if you have no net profit. A study in Wisconsin showed that the top 1% of IBO's, based on tax returns. had a net loss on average.

Anonymous said...

Joe, if you ask Anon at 7:32AM about net profit, he is shifting his answers from business aspects to motivational aspects such as "empowering people", "helping people" and so on. He shifts from net profit to the cause.

It is indeed far from the true business mentality.

Anonymous said...

Thanks... We are pro cause (Free Enterprise) people offering business opportunity platform for those who are looking for one with community of entrepreneurs to help,guide and mentor if they want to take their help.

Anonymous said...

Loss on what? You are buying the products any which way, now you buy best quality and opportunity to share the benefits of buying from your own biz (ask Walton or Bezos families where they shop & WHY)...
Infact the 2$ stuff you buy at Target, remember there is profit in that too, and as part of affiliate partner store they do share part of it too with IBO's who are loyal to their business..
We don't force people to buy ,we educate and empower them to make a choice from where to buy, anyone can join as IBO(as long as they have legal status) and if they still decide to shop at other "indirect distributors" of course they won't make money...but get counted when folks like you look for "averages"....
Look for leaders, have created a lot in over 50 years and learn from them what made them who they are.

John Doe said...

For the record, anyone telling me about how great their business is and then ends it with god bless you (even though I didn't sneeze) probably has something wrong. It is imperative to keep god out of business because it has no business being there...no pun intended. There is a separation of church and state just like there is a separation of church and business because they are two completely separate entities that have nothing to do with one another. If you are getting that basic fundamental confused as the money gets drained from your account, then the last thing you should be doing is giving business advice.

Anonymous, answer Joe's question about your net profit and prove that you are actually making a future for yourself or get off the shitter (pardon my language). You aren't getting anywhere with this nonsense about it being a great opportunity, giving weird comparisons, citing propaganda magazines, or bringing god into the discussion. The point of business is to make money, so put up or shut up.

Anonymous said...

John Doe has really nailed it down. Amway in the U.S. is moribund, and therefore the only really hyped-up new IBOs are foreigners who can't speak or write English properly. And it's laughable the way they spout the old Amway bullshit about "pro-suming" and "empowerment" and "helping people" and "cherishing a dream," etc. etc. Most American IBOs are too embarrassed to hand out that tired propaganda anymore.

Joecool said...

It should also be noted that Amway sales have plummeted down double digits for each of the last 2 years.

John Doe said...

Anonymous said, "Loss on what? You are buying the products any which way, now you buy best quality and opportunity to share the benefits of buying from your own biz (ask Walton or Bezos families where they shop & WHY)..."

First of all, we are talking about a loss of your capital (Money, Currency, Moolah, Cashola) buying overpriced products that are NOT superior in quality (you can read the ingredients and learn for yourself), because they have to pay your upline who sucked you into the game. Second, are you seriously comparing Amway to Walmart and Amazon? Both Walmart and Amazon gross FAR MORE MONEY and PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES! Neither of those businesses go out recruiting a business opportunity and they have far less "staff" than Amway while still making much more profit...This asinine comparison to blue chip companies is a joke...but to finish it off, if you buy a product from Walmart or Amazon you are getting the best value for your dollar, and when you buy from Amway you are paying 400% or more for generic junk...

"Infact the 2$ stuff you buy at Target, remember there is profit in that too, and as part of affiliate partner store they do share part of it too with IBO's who are loyal to their business.."

Wow, the way you wrote this is so factually wrong I think my head just had an actual "brain fart" trying to read it. Target is not an affiliate partner store...they sell stuff to Amway at reduced rates and then Amway sells it to you at retail...you are clearly too stupid to do math. Also, if you go into Target and buy a product THEY DON'T PAY YOU SQUAT. You have no connection to Target, you do not pass go, you do not collect $200.00. Your statement is truly bizarre.

"We don't force people to buy ,we educate and empower them to make a choice from where to buy, anyone can join as IBO(as long as they have legal status) and if they still decide to shop at other "indirect distributors" of course they won't make money...but get counted when folks like you look for "averages"....
Look for leaders, have created a lot in over 50 years and learn from them what made them who they are."

Wow...I thought it couldn't get weirder but it does. You don't force people to buy!??!! They have to buy monthly or they don't qualify for bonuses...there is always a minimum amount of PV you have to generate each month. You clearly haven't read the contract. How do you educate people when you don't know the rules of your own business? I don't believe you understand the difference between an average and statistics. If you are trying to calculate the average income of an IBO, then you add up all of the incomes and divide it by the number of IBO's (Less than $500 a year)...that's an average. If you are describing how many people make money (less than 1%) that is a statistic which is generated by the number of people AMWAY reports losing money each year. Statistics are generated from gathering lots and lots of data and then used to formulate a conclusion...that's what makes them significant.

"Look for leaders, have created a lot in over 50 years and learn from them what made them who they are."

Remember the time when I said, "The next responses should feature some wonderful notes about how long Amway has been around, the only people who fail are quitters, you can't be successful doing anything else." This person is truly brainwashed...they don't even realize how easy it is to predict what they are going to say...Amway has generated more LOSS leaders in 50 years than any other company...

Joecool said...

Amway has 3 million distributors and several thousand employees. Amway sales was 9.5 billion last year.

Walmart has 2 million employee and did nearly 500 billion in sales. Which business has it right?

Anonymous said...

Get your Facts Right.. Call Amway Customer Service and ask about Affiliate Partner Program or check on Amway website.

Anonymous said...

Look at this way-- Amway got over 3 million loyal customers , and distributed over 50 billion US dollars to them based on each Individual performance.
And if you put your thinking hat you will realize you are also a "distributor" just that those biz don't offer you the opportunity.

I don't compare with Indirect Distributors, as their biz model is different anyway (and that is the whole education we give to con-Sumer to become Pro-Sumer) , get ready to read physical store closures and reduction in those employees as these "indirect distributors" also leverage internet technologies to serve their customers...

Joecool said...

""you will realize you are also a "distributor" just that those biz don't offer you the opportunity.""

Your upline has taught you well. You pay Amway for the privilege of selling their generic brand products for premium prices.

""and that is the whole education we give to con-Sumer to become Pro-Sumer""

Yes, you probably read the BS book by Bill Quain. Bottom line is you don't make money without real and legitimate customers. When you pro-sume, any profit you think you made, actually just came out of your own pocket.

""get ready to read physical store closures and reduction in those employees""

You didn't read my last comment. Amway has more than 3 million sales people to move 9.5 billion in sales.

WalMart moves 500 billion in sales with 2 million employees.

Anonymous said...

Again your understanding they are generic... It's like saying a car is a car what's the difference between Kia and BMW..
Agreed whole heartedly you don't make profits without customers..don't forget though first customer for every biz start with their own household ;)...(you hopefully read Household Gold, if not read it)
And then as you share the concept you get customers and/or business associates... Simple, as the volume of product grows so does the bonus.. Nothing different from traditional business...

As for the transformation that is taking place in the distribution world ,check this--
http://retailindustry.about.com/od/USRetailStoreClosingInfoFAQs/fl/US-2016-Store-Closings-All-Retail-Chain-Store-Locations-To-Be-Closed.htm

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 3:11 and 3:17 PM is a prime example of Amway idiocy.

He can't deal with logical arguments as presented by John Doe and Joe Cool, so he urges them to "call Amway Customer Service" in order to ask about some program on the Amway website. Huh? That's like telling someone who's arguing against Communism to call the local Communist Party for unbiased information.

Then he realizes how stupid such a suggestion sounds, so six minutes later he comes back to make the surreal argument that anyone who buys something is a "Distributor," and then wraps it all up by spouting more Amway bullshit about "Pro-sumers" and "leveraging internet technologies."

This is what happens to your brain when you are addicted to Amway and Amway-speak.

Joecool said...

""It's like saying a car is a car what's the difference between Kia and BMW..""

To make this relatable, Amway products are the Kia with the prices of a BMW. That's why IBO's primarily buy their own stuff and rarely have actual customers.

""Simple, as the volume of product grows so does the bonus.""

And for IBO's, that means spending more of their own money to buy more PV.

Regarding store closings, you must have missed the last but important paragraph in the article:

""It's important for anyone interested enough to pay attention to store closings to remember that store closings in an omnichannel world don't have nearly as much significance as they did when a physical store was the only sales outlet. For most retailers with Internet and mobile presence, store closings represent not much more than a shift in focus.

And that focus is, for the most part, being directed by consumers, not the people sitting in the leather boardroom seats.""

Anonymous said...

Again your understanding , not the 3 million plus some of them buying for over 50 years in over 100 countries.. (I understand experience is personal).

Your thinking "spending" (mindset) ,IBO's invest too.. Like all business owners do, though by that they experience the products and see the value of buying from their own biz without risking typical expenses of starting a biz, for the stuff anyway they going to buy.
And FYI, they get PV which goes by performance bonus & get paid, as indirect customer folks leave that with the owner of that distributorship...

Of course, when we Can run our biz from mobile, why need to invest in physical stores and operational expenses like hiring employees/lease and try to recover by "bumping" the price and get customers to pay for it..
Hope you know what Omnichannel means (as so far most are only aware of "indirect channel" only) , and reason over 70 affiliate partner stores join hands and collobarate with us as we educate customers to buy online pick in store (for brands like Target, Home Depot and many others).
Keep eye on media you follow and see all these businesses which are closing stores reduce human workforce, as for most order replenishment machines takes over the process,and of course will be significant as the next generation of customers are digitally savvy and can go DIRECT.

Anonymous said...

Ofcourse, you don't realize you distribute information and your experience with what you buy....Think how Google and Facebook make $$$?

Joecool said...

So despite all your comments that make it seem like the business works, you have yet to answer my question about whether you made a net profit or not. The activities you've described lead me to believe you're losing money buy have been taught to say certain things by your upline to promote the business.

Anonymous said...

Joe, forget about it. This guy's brain has been turned to cottage cheese.

He'll NEVER answer your question about how much money he has made or lost in Amway. His up-line has drilled it into him that he must never answer such a question honestly or directly.

Anonymous said...

You should have got an idea over 3 million people are doing business WITH Amway, they are making profits based on performance they do in their business, otherwise no one is forcing anyone to buy or stay in business..
Experience is personal, and I understand you don't have a good one who guided you thinking its a "quick rich scheme".
With Social Media & direct access to the company via website, it's easier for folks like you to follow official platforms and learn about the business opportunity offers and income potential..
I am in positive cashflow since first day I joined and growing as we start where as customer your options end, buy at wholesale.

Anonymous said...

The "profit" that Anon kept on babbling about was the profit for the company and heirs, the profit belongs to the people on the top, good for the company but not to those IBO.

Keep up the good work John and Joe

Joecool said...

Anon at 3:33 said: "I am in positive cashflow since first day I joined and growing as we start where as customer your options end, buy at wholesale."

If you don't mind, please explain how you have achieved that. Your sales to customers, business expense, setc. I'm honestly interested in hearing how you did it

Anonymous said...

Simple.. Leverage your buying power, learn about the cost per use, quality of the products available, then anytime you shop see if you have the product in your business or not, you got global distributor rights and for that you need to leverage the local community of entrepreneurs to help educate the concept to global connections you have..
If not available, go out(preferably to wholesaler), just be consistent , serve your family,friends,co-workers(social connections ) for any occasions -some will become customers, some business associates("downline" as the terminology) , some will give referral too.. Keep living a positive life..encouraging ,empowering and serving other people while sharing the concept of Free Enterprise..

Use Bonuses to invest in education from right sources(successful people in this industry-Direct Selling, as for Amway none better than the Founders-Rich & Jay-read their Books,listen to how when they were at 0 PV started to build their business), as your understanding, faith and belief grows, so will your ability to handle frequently asked questions(like some on your blogs), infact now Amway offers it via various digital channels too..

Hope you read the news about another retailer(Macy's) consolidating on physical footprints...(Btw-another affiliate partner store).

Anonymous said...

You start at the top of YOUR business... And if you study the plan can make more profit than your sponsor...Amway #platform is same for all IBO's.

Anonymous said...

"successful people in this industry-Direct Selling, as for Amway none better than the Founders-Rich & Jay-read their Books,listen to how when they were at 0 PV started to build their business"

Truth: They are the founders of the company, they are more than just an IBO.

Anonymous said...

the plan is designed to profit those at the top.

Joecool said...

Out earning your sponsor in Amway is no big deal. Most people do nothing. Problem is the vast majority of people make nothing or lose money in Amway.

Learning from Rich and Jay is useless unless you plan to start your own MLM.

Use bonuses to "invest" in education? Why? Amway education is ineffective. If it worked. a lot of people would succeed instead of a fraction of 1%.

Anonymous said...

Similar to what a new IBO is when they start their business, Now every business work with other business-- suppliers etc to serve customers, in here they Offered an Opportunity to work WITH them..

Anonymous said...

Look outside of this business how many leaders to followers ( or CEO to employees), every follower here has an opportunity to become one ....

Why is personal to everyone(each I, hence you see different views around)... I ask Why Not... It's your business why not invest to grow your business..

Anonymous said...

Joe, this guy is just a jargon-spouting schmuck with a limited command of English. You might as well be talking to a taped phone message. Why bother?

Joecool said...

"It's your business why not invest to grow your business.."
August 12, 2016 at 5:38 AM

How are you "investing" in your Amway business?

A real business owner who "invests" in their business expects that investment to result in increased sales and profits. Your upline has you fooled into believing that spending money on training is an "investment". If you attend a function, if what you learned doesn't result in increased sales, you got nothing out of it. Next thing you know, the next function is there are you still have no increase in sales.

If you buy cds and voicemail, how does that investment pay off? Your investment in tools only pays off for the people selling the tools, not for you.

Anonymous said...

"Tools"-- all your life you used them to where you are , if you are successful in that field is because of them, if not it's not tools fault, they are same for everyone... Read Books, Listen to Successful People in that field, Associated with the same field folks...
You still paid for those, do you "blame" those books, association or CD(Streaming now) if someone fails.. Then you need to work on yourself.. Of getting away from blame game... Remember someone did became successful using the same(whether in this business or outside in other fields).
Well you do business WITH Amway so if there grows because of you remember yours grow too(but also remember there biz is not just dependent on your biz), again nothing different from other biz, if you buy at "indirect distributor" you help grow their biz & the biz of their Supplier..
Make it simple for you-- draw supply chain from manufacturer to customer in "indirect distribution" model and then draw in "direct distribution"... Hope visual aid helps.

Joecool said...

The tools that upline uses best in Amway is deception and lies.

Pretend that cds and functions help your business. Lie about how much a diamond makes. Lie about retiring early (even thought diamonds still work). Be deceptive about the name Amway. Pretend "anyone" can do it. Pretend there is residual income to be made.

Fake it till you make it.

Those are the tools you need most in Amway.

Anonymous said...

You have access DIRECTLY to Amway's website... GO DIRECT and see what Amway brochure says..READ (keep blaming your Upline is again part of blame game, are you keeping your Upline in his/her biz or he/she has his own reasons (WHY) )... Get in in your mind once and for all... NO ONE KEEPS anyone in their Own Business, they Make their Own Independent Decision to stay, build and grow...

Joecool said...

The Amway website says the average income for IBOs is $202 a month. That is only 47% of IBOs because the rest do nothing and do not count in the average. So the "real" average income of all IBOs is about $100 a month. That $100 a month is gross income and does not count business expenses, which Amway says might be "significant".

It also says that only .26 (about one fourth of one percent) reach the gold level. That's about 1 in 400 IBO's reach a level where they make just over $15,000 a year or about the equivalent to working full time for minimum wage. The gold level income is also gross and does not reflect business expenses, which Amway says might be significant.

Nobody's blaming everything on upline. The Amway business is a poor choice if your goal is to actually make money. Amway's own disclosures clearly show this. Why is your upline disputing what Amway publishes?

Anonymous said...

Again you want to go with average , than average and ALL customers who buy "indirectly" make ZERO(infact -ve).
Those who do nothing make nothing simple --PERFORMANCE based business.

Whatever they make is IN ADDITION to what they make doing whatever else they do, no one should be making that decision for anyone when and if they want to leave what they do for "active" income...

Again your thinking, over 3 MILLION people plus has made that (and growing )(probably more than the people normally human beings ever meet in lifetime)

Again you brining Upline,nor I mentioned not you should assume that my Upline is saying anything about this, Upline role is to guide(like your parents role is to guide and teach from their life experience-- following or not is upto the younger generation)..

All I sense is either you are mis-guided by whoever sponsored you or you are one of the "indirect distributor" whose business suffers because of growth of Number 1 Direct Selling Business in the world..(I understand when our Communities of Entrepreneurs grow , indirect distributors loose money and hence show these type of activities, nothing new (been the case since its inception)but it's different this time as people have DIRECT access to learn and opportunity to experience the best quality products(reason they are in biz for over 50 yrs in over 100 countries)...
I Hope You Will Get Some Sense and do something for the betterment of humanity and your generations to come..

Joecool said...

Anonymous, let's cut to the chase. Tell us how much you make from Amway and how much you spend on tools. Your anecdotal stories are not telling us much.

Or prove that IBO's earn more than what Amway.com discloses.

If not, you're wasting your time and ours.

Anonymous said...

Joe, there was a single IBO who answered how much net profit he earned per month, around $17.95

Anonymous said...

Here's some advice for Anonymous at 8:37 PM --

1) Learn to speak and write English properly. It really would help. Tell your up-line that you need a couple of months off to take a crash course in grammar, syntax, and spelling.

2) Come right out and tell us HOW MUCH MONEY YOU EARNED last year in Amway, and HOW MUCH MONEY YOU SPENT on tools, functions, and all the rest of the required junk. Don't just tell us you had "a positive cash flow." That's weasel language. GIVE US THE GODDAMNED FIGURES!

3) Stop spouting gobbledygook about "direct" and "indirect" selling. You keep repeating this crap like a Buddhist mantra, but it doesn't actually mean anything.

4) Every so often, read a book that isn't written or hyped by the Amway Corporation. Your brain is so addled by Amway and MLM propaganda that you simply can't think clearly. I'm suggesting this to you merely out of concern for your mental health.

5) Get a life. You are obviously a committed fanatic who breathes, eats, sleeps, and dreams Amway every second. Think of all that you are missing because of this insane obsession with a stupid business cult. Do something different as a way to regain your lost sanity.

6) If you can't do any of the above things, stop coming here to annoy us.

Anonymous said...

You should be smart enough to know by now that only if people are making money that they are working WITH Amway and Amway itself is in business for over 50 years..
Amway follows local country laws and regulations and disclose as required.
Amway only have info about income that is generated from business with Amway, your income from job or other businesses is in addition to that, so even new IBO who qualifies for bonus has more INCOME than he/she had last year, As business grows ,some IBO's have other business interest outside of their business with Amway which generate income for them, so those all add up...
Read the Book- Compound Effect, you will learn its not just individual effort it's team effort and like I said earlier leadership driven.
Wish you Best and Hope GOD give you sense to understand the Business Concept Better--"Empowering & Serving People".

Joecool said...

That's the biggest BS that IBO's tell me. It's a "team" effort. Your upline says that so you help him out. You're supposed to be an "independent" business owner. The business interest outside of Amway is selling you books, voicemail, cds, and seminar tickets. That's the most lucrative business interest. Possibly more lucrative than Amway.

Funny you mention God. God would not approve of deceiving and cheating people, which is what the diamonds do.

And no, IBO's come on here making all kinds of claims like being new and earning $5000 a month in Amway but not a single one has been able to explain or prove that their claims are true.

Anonymous said...

His first sentence and his next sentence are contradictions, Joe, what do you think?

Anonymous said...

No brand-new Amway IBO is ever going to make $5000 a month. That's the biggest whopper since Pinocchio.

Everything in Amway is about lying -- lying to others, lying to yourself, lying when you go on-line to defend Amway. Despite all its fake Christianity, Amway encourages its members to be complete LIARS.

Joecool said...

Amway IBO's, especially newbies, often make contradictpry or off the wall implausible comments.