Thursday, August 2, 2018

Amway And Accountability?

Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Possibly millions of downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will take credit for meager success, but place the blame on the downline when success is not there. Upline will claim that they either did not try hard enough, were not teachable enough, or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. I believe it's obvious that the system and the upline advice is severely flawed.

In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.

The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.

Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.

The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.


Anonymous said...

The failure of many Amway IBOs to demand some sort of accountability from their up-line is a symptom of this basic structural problem in Amway -- the deep motivation to be in Amway (or any MLM) is essentially psychological-religious, and not rational or financial.

Yes, yes, I know -- IBOs all dream of being rich eventually. But a parallel idea is true of all religious believers, who think they will be saved and come to glory eventually. What keeps all of these persons hanging on, year after year, is a blind faith and a blind trust. For the traditional religious believer, the unshakable trust is in God, in the holy scriptures, and in the priests or ministers of his particular sect. For the Amway IBO, the trust is in his up-line, in the sacred "Plan," in the pompous Platinums and Diamonds that he looks upon as saints, and all the ridiculous paraphernalia of the entire Amway racket.

THAT'S the real reason why IBOs will never demand accountability from up-line or Amway for their perpetual failure to realize a profit. To do so would be to question their holy faith, and believers can never do that! What does Job say in the Bible? "Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him!"

I'm not attacking religion. I am a devout believer. But I see clearly now that Amway is a Golden Calf -- a false idol set up for a corrupt kind of worship in opposition to real religion. Amway isn't a business. It's a false faith. It's a sick "prosperity-gospel" cult that is a mockery of real faith.

Anonymous said...

Amway and in particular the LOS are just most absolutely quasi-religious cults.

They are chasing the most baseless false god, greed.
Encouraged to be enslaved through their dreams of promised material largesse.

A couple of devoted Amway victims I know both seek some kind of connection in this age of disconnection and both are enraptured. Both are time poor.

Neither considers input costs, runs a P&L or any kind of standard business practice. Neither consider their time as cost despite working full time in a job.
A job that now reliably pays the bills that they strove to develop.

Personally, and after chasing that particular god for decades quite successfully without Amway, the rewarded bliss promoted is not quite as forecast.

That is the biggest issue to me with Amway and the LOS is it steals peoples lives.

Just a big time and effort waster for nothing. I'd rather they plant trees.

So it has to be cult quasi-religious thing - nothing else about it makes sense.

Joecool said...

Thank you for your comments. You are correct. Amway works as a cult and the indoctrinated followers will shun family and friends and trus their upline. It's actually an interesting phenomena when you can see it objectively. How someone can quickly turn their trust to an acquaintance in pursuit of false hopes and dreams. When I offer my opinions about Amway to people, I just say to observe the functions. There are a few people on stage and maybe thousands in the audience. Nothing about that ever changes. New diamonds are rare and ifthe systems actually churned out success, there would be less scrutiny. But in the US, my former LOS system, WWDB, I believe has much fewer diamonds than when I was an IBO, AND most new WWDB diamonds were in foreign countries where the public is not aware of the Amway scam.

And in the US, most diamonds are the same tired old diamond from the 1990's. Duncan, Wolgamott, Tsuruda, Harimoto, Danzik, Felber, Baker and some others. There are a few new diamonds but in 20 years or more, a few new diamonds is no indication that WWDB is some kind of successful system.

People seem to succeed insole of the system and not because of it.

Anonymous said...

Is there any body of objective statistics on the % of success of IBO's, how many rise to the level of diamonds (or even Platinum qualification,) the dropout rate and the debt rate? I suppose there isn't, but I would love to know.

Joecool said...

You check out the Amway website but they don't give you direct information. You would need to extrapolate the numbers.

I haven't looked recently, but to reach the Gold level (a non Q12 platinum), it was .26% or about 1 in 400 IBOs. So the level where you allegedly begin to break even r make a little is about 1 in 400.

A diamond was something like 1 in 15,000. Something like .0076%

Those stats are just to achieve the level. We know that many folks fall out of qualification shortly after making it.

Anonymous said...

It has stole my daughters life, or in the process of I should say. In just short of a years time she has almost alienated her friends and put her family on the back burner to attend all these functions, traveling a RIDICULOUS number of miles (1000 miles one way by car, and I might add being applauded by upline for making the trip which was insane to drive all that way and turn around 2 days later and drive 1000 miles back home) just to see the diamonds parade around n stage and brag and fill the ibo up with false hopes! My daughter went from a social butterfly to a cacoon. Amway comes before EVERYTHING, even family.

Anonymous said...

I assume you are the mother of the RN who has posted here before.

The situation with your daughter is getting scary. Driving 2000 miles for one of those idiotic Amway "functions" is a sign of very intense fanaticism.

Doesn't she have any other kind of life at all? No boyfriend? No social interests? No professional activities connected with her nursing career? No hobbies? No desire for a vacation? No interest in books or movies or plays or dances or any other form of entertainment?

If she has none of the above, I think you must face facts: she is going to be a hopeless lifer in Amway.

You are the one who now has to make the hard decisions. You must cease to offer her ANY SUPPORT AT ALL for her Amway habit. Don't buy any Amway products from her. Don't lend her any money. Don't allow her to keep any Amway material at your home.

Does she live with you? If so, then start charging her rent, or KICK HER OUT. Make sure she knows, in no uncertain terms, that anything to do with Amway is poison to you, and you will not tolerate hearing about Amway from her, or being entangled with it in any manner.

She has probably already alienated all of her friends and acquaintances. Don't be her last enabler!