Thursday, September 13, 2018

Upline Advice?

We have had some really good discussion on this blog recently about how someone can build a business in Amway without abusing downline. I was an IBO in WWDB, and I was given really bad advice from upline. These uplines are still around and apparently still giving some of the same bad advice to downline. Having said that, I believe there are some factions within WWDB who may be operating differently. I contributor on this blog, James C. has explained in some of his comments, how he operates, contrary to the mainstream WWDB teachings. Thus I was inspired to write this post.

My sponsor and uplines were Harimoto, Wolgamott, Duncan. We were taught that Amway saves marriages, and that the rest of the world gets divorced. Ironically, I believe Wolgamott is now divorced and his wife has remarried. Greg Duncan was touted for his financial acumen and told the audience that only stupid people took out loans, even to purchase a home. Then we find out he was in bankruptcy proceedings with interest only loans. This is just a side bar. I will further explain what other advice was given to rank and file IBOs.

My sponsor and uplines told us that we should never miss a meeting. Period. That missing a meeting was setting a bad example for your group. In fact we should always purchase extra tickets to meetings and functions as an incentive to bring guests. We were taught that in addition to standing order, we should be purchasing 5-7 extra tapes/cds each week. Afterall, you can't listen to the same recording each day if you are core. We were told that if you had downline who quit, you could not cancel a standing order because it was too much trouble to call upline who called upline who finally reached Greg Duncan to cancel a standing order. I found it ironic that they NEVER complained about calling upline who called upline who finally reached Greg Duncan to ADD a standing order. Our group was also told that nobody made a cent of profit from the tools. A lie that nobody has ever been accountable for to this day. If selling products were ever mentioned, it was only so IBOs could earn money to buy more function tickets and/or standing orders.

Our upline also enjoyed holding meeting after meeting, AFTER the functions. Thus IBOs went home after 3:00 in the morning at times, even on nights when the job was waiting for them the next morning. Our upline also taught more tenured IBOs that money wasn't important in the business because we are friends for life. The group was taught that we could have our families skip meals in order to buy more tapes/cds. IBOs were told that they should NEVER quit, unless they give up on life as they would be doomed for financial failure.

This is some of the bad advice I heard from some WWDB leaders. These leaders are still around today and I believe this is still taught. What does your upline advise?


Anonymous said...

"Money isn't important in a business"? Huh?

More and more it is becoming crystal-clear that Amway and all its corrupt LOS systems are just one big act of mental self-deception.

A "business" that doesn't make money is called either a non-profit charity, or a failure. Which is it, all you Amway IBOs? Are you running a charity, or are you just losing money?

Joecool said...

Amway IBOs make excuses, but they rarely make money. But the insidious part is that upline teaches that failure is success because they are learning and investing in their business.

Anonymous said...

Telling people to skip meals (or to disregard rent or mortgage payments, which is a well-documented practice in Amway LOS systems) is more than just bad advice -- it is criminally irresponsible.

It also shows that up-line is absolutely fixated on and obsessive about receiving fees from down-line. Up-line doesn't care if your kids are hungry. They don't care if your home is foreclosed on by the bank, or if you are evicted.

Some people call this fanaticism. Some call it hard-driving dedication. What it really is, if we're honest about it all, is this: THEFT. Up-line steals from down-line. Every goddamned month!

It's as simple as that.

Joecool said...

Part of the reason why I started this blog was to expose this kind of teaching for what it is. What bothers me is that these WWDB diamonds have never been held accountable for the absolutely bad self serving advice they've given people.

In our own group, I saw a couple lose their home to foreclosure following upline advice. I saw someone file bankruptcy.

It's amazing how someone can stand on stage and give advice like that.

Unknown said...

Repost but the same thought applies. Even when I was an IBO I was lurking this blog even though my education system with Amway was Leadership Team Development, my experience was pretty much the same as everyone else here.

Even though this post is from last year, it resonated with me. I was in Amway as an IBO from June 7th 2018 to September 13th 2018. I felt dumb for joining now in hindsight since I am 30 and most of the people in Amway in my area were all in the 20's usually early to mid 20's with only a small handful of older people in their late 20's, early 30's and above. My sponsor was a 21 year old college girl and her upline was a 26 year old dude. I was not in Brit World Wide but Leadership team development which is similar to the other "education" groups associated with the Amway IBO "opportunity" AKA pyramid scheme. I was skeptical from the start but saw all these older people who had good careers saying it works etc so I stayed. But I didn't realize how diffcult it was to try to sell this over priced products to friends and family and trying to recruit them to the team. A few unfriended me on social media and others tried to warn be about Amway being a pyramid scheme etc.

My sponsor the college girl was and still is completely brainwashed by Amway and is sold out to the cause the uplines and diamonds sold these people on. Her upline is said to only been in Amway two years and makes 5,000 in bonus as he just hit the platinum level. He seemed cool at first, but when I questioned spending money on going to a conference he sort of got an attitude and our relationship changed. As time went on I saw the dangerous stuff the cults of personality, uplines etc would tell these people and it was clear they didn't give a crap about their downline. All they wanted was for them to keep spending money so that THEY could collect a paycheck. Of course, they try to cover that by saying that have invested interest in your success and they care, but again, it's all self serving BS. I lost around 500-600 bucks in the three months I was in and didn't see a cent in return.

Now I am just focusing on starting my own digital marketing/ video production company and actually doing something good for my local community by doing volunteer work for the homeless etc on the side. Do not join Amway people, it is the breaker of dreams and a total scam/pyramid scheme.

Unknown said...

I don’t think that is happening anymore as far as encouraging to purchase extra - I am early in the process, going through but we have to buy our own tickets and books for personal development and such - we have been invited to events and meeting but no one has offered a free ticket yet ... what do you do now? I am interested in hearing about your experience as this is an opportunity my husband and I are evaluating now so your insight may direct us to questions that we haven’t thought of yet .. and help us make sure we know what we are getting into and all is transparent .. thanks for sharing!

Joecool said...

Unknown, you'll be praised and edified for your efforts. And why not? You loyal purchases make $$$$ for the diamonds. But what will eventually happen, is you may find that sponsoring is hard and even if you're not making money, you will still be encouraged to buy those tools and attend those functions. Then the teaching may evolve into something like your marriage is better because of your association in Amway or that you are a nicer person or some other charade that takes the discussion away from your bottom line - a business profit.

Most people figure this out quickly and exit the business but some people really get hooked hard and stay in for years.

Observe this. Are the teachings and functions actually helping you to make a net profit or does it get you fired up but your bottom line remains a net loss?

A business exists to make money. If you aren't making money, what are you going to change so that you do? Attending more functions and listening to more audios aren't going to net you a profit.

Shawn said...

Joe Cool hits it right on the head. I mentioned here that I literally just quit Amway/ Leadership Team Development two weeks ago (September 13th 2018). I was in the "business" for three months and lost over 500 dollars and didn't see any profit but was still encouraged to attend all the conferences (which ranged from 100-150 price wise) and pay for my share of the hotel room and gas money to travel to functions. I also was pushed to listen to audios and read their books. Not to mention all the info sessions/ training sessions cost money to attend (5-10 dollars) and you were expected to spend 300 a month on ditto (buying Amway products yourself).

Nobody in the organization talks about the realities of the "business". None of the diamonds or other uplines bring up the high failure rates of Amway IBO's, the high chance of losing significant amounts of money, how difficult is it is to sponsor people or get people to buy the expensive products, and most importantly the risk of damaging relationships with family and friends. They just hype people up and sell them on a dream and hope they don't notice how much money they are losing or that the dream they are selling is unrealistic.

Anonymous said...

As they always say "it is a numbers game. "If you get the right numbers in, eventually you start to make money , not necessarily diamond income but a few dollars to offset your investment.They don't tell you this because they dont focus on negative things. It is always about remaining positive.Remember ignorance is bliss.