In my opinion, one of the biggest challenges with being an IBO was trying to sell Amway products because overall, their prices were too high. Now this is not to say that every single product sold thru Amway is priced higher than retailers, but certainly, a price comparison with WalMart or Costco would show that Amway prices are indeed higher for the exact same or similar products.
Sure, there are some Amway zealots like IBOFightback who will try to justify paying up to 3 times more for products such as meadowbrook toilet paper versus Kirkland. But Kirkland is much much cheaper, if you buy it at Costco, and still cheaper even if you order online and have to pay for shipping. I even saw an 8 pack of progresso soups in an Amway catalog for $18.99 and the exact same 8 pack was sold at Costco for 11.99. IBOFightback and other Amway apologists can try to justify the prices all they want but these numbers don't lie, and Costco and WalMart sales back up my claim. IBOFightback has only rhetoric and other apologists to back his claims.
But maybe it will help if I offer why I believe that Amway, and apparently most other MLMs have to have higher prices. It is because they need to pay IBO bonuses.
If Amway had about a billion dollars in sales and gave back 343 million or so in bonuses a few years back, it means quite clearly, that Amway could have charged a customer 30-34% less without paying IBO bonuses. Thus $300 worth of Amway products could have been purchased at Walmart or Costco for about $200. (Same or similar products).
The problem for most IBOs is that Amway pays 34% in bonuses, but most IBOs get nothing or perhaps 3% while layers and layers of upline (middlemen) take their cut of that (approximate) 34%. IBOFightback himlself said on Qblog he was a (founder's) 3%. I assume that to mean that he does 100 PV every month.
So in Amway and most other MLM opportunities, you are handicapped with paying higher prices because of the IBO bonuses which are included in the price of the products. You as an IBO, compound that problem if you participate in a system of cds, voicemail, books and functions which teach you that this is a good opportunity.
It is also, in my opinion, the reason why only about 4% of Amway goods are sold to people who are not IBOs. IBOs are their own best customers because the rest of the US shops at Costco and WalMart.
Monday, June 8, 2009
Amway - IBOs are Slaves For Upline?
I remember when I was an IBO, it was common for certain "movers and shakers" to earn time with upline. For example, I remember one time when our group had some kind of contest where the winner got the incredible priviledge of driving our upline diamond to the airport. There were other types of qualifying contests as well, where the winner got to "win" some time with upline, even if that meant it would actually cost them time and money.
Thus, IBOs who already spend their hard earned money on products, to earn PV, and then spendmore money buying materials such as cds and function tickets, get the priviledge of driving the diamond to, or picking the diamond up at the airport.
I also remember certain IBOs winning the priviledge of getting to run product pick up for the diamond when he was out of town speaking at a function or something, It's almost like paying someone for the priviledge of doing a task for them.
At functions, the directs (platinums) worked the function as ushers. I'm not sure if they had to pay to attend these functions, but I am certain they they had to pay for travel to get to the function. Imagine having an unpaid employee who pays their own way to work in another city?
Basically, downline IBOs are like slaves. They serve and edify the upline diamonds, they open doors, chaufeur them around, give them gifts and other perks, all for the priviledge or spending a few minutes with them. In my book, that makes IBOs uncompensated slaves. At least slaves were fed and given housing. LOL
Thus, IBOs who already spend their hard earned money on products, to earn PV, and then spendmore money buying materials such as cds and function tickets, get the priviledge of driving the diamond to, or picking the diamond up at the airport.
I also remember certain IBOs winning the priviledge of getting to run product pick up for the diamond when he was out of town speaking at a function or something, It's almost like paying someone for the priviledge of doing a task for them.
At functions, the directs (platinums) worked the function as ushers. I'm not sure if they had to pay to attend these functions, but I am certain they they had to pay for travel to get to the function. Imagine having an unpaid employee who pays their own way to work in another city?
Basically, downline IBOs are like slaves. They serve and edify the upline diamonds, they open doors, chaufeur them around, give them gifts and other perks, all for the priviledge or spending a few minutes with them. In my book, that makes IBOs uncompensated slaves. At least slaves were fed and given housing. LOL
Friday, June 5, 2009
Amway - How Upline Sells You A Dream To Lure You Into Their Scheme
Dreams. One of the big recruiting tools used by upline is to sell you hopes of a dream. A "dream" is basically a long term goal, such as the dream of owning a home. It is why Amway leaders want their groups to show an aura of success. IBOs attend meetings in suits and nice clothing. They will flash picture of luxury items, supposedly attainable by "anyone".
Now of course, anyone have a dream or dreams is a good thing. It gives you a purpose, something you are working towards. The part that is unethical by many uplines is that they will basically make you empty or false promises. There are many ways to achieve your dreams. It is unlikely that an IBO will achieve their dreams by running a successful Amway business. Even at the diamond level, it appears that it's not as good as how they promote it. There have been many stories of diamond level IBOs quitting, losing homes to foreclosures, and even a recent story of a triple diamond in bankruptcy court.
How these upline leaders lure unsuspecting prospects is quite clever. They will often talk about how they were once broke, but through the Amway business, they now have no job, and they make TONS of money. They will also go onto tell prospects that they too, can have the same success in a few years, if only they will do what upline says (advises), and that the key to this is to subscribe to their "system".
The system is usually a website, voicemail, cds, seminars and books.
What upline leaders really want is for a prospect to become a dedicated "customer" of their system. There is plenty of evidence and testimony that some upline leaders might be making almost all of their money from the system. Sure, an IBO can rationalize that upline might make only a hundred or two hundred bucks a month from them, but add that times the number of downline IBOs and figure it out.
Sure, some upline may tell you that you can eventually get a piece of the action at the platinum level, but there are no written compensation plans for the "system" that I know of. And so few IBOs ever reach platinum, that your chances of getting a small piece of the action are slim. Upline leaders may tell you that they want your success, but it may or may not be true, as your success might mean less income for them. I believe many upline leaders are just as happy to see new people replace old people, as long as they continue to have dedicated "customers" to purchase their system materials.
The upline leaders want to use your dream to motivate you to buy into their (tools) scheme. That's how Joecool sees it.
Now of course, anyone have a dream or dreams is a good thing. It gives you a purpose, something you are working towards. The part that is unethical by many uplines is that they will basically make you empty or false promises. There are many ways to achieve your dreams. It is unlikely that an IBO will achieve their dreams by running a successful Amway business. Even at the diamond level, it appears that it's not as good as how they promote it. There have been many stories of diamond level IBOs quitting, losing homes to foreclosures, and even a recent story of a triple diamond in bankruptcy court.
How these upline leaders lure unsuspecting prospects is quite clever. They will often talk about how they were once broke, but through the Amway business, they now have no job, and they make TONS of money. They will also go onto tell prospects that they too, can have the same success in a few years, if only they will do what upline says (advises), and that the key to this is to subscribe to their "system".
The system is usually a website, voicemail, cds, seminars and books.
What upline leaders really want is for a prospect to become a dedicated "customer" of their system. There is plenty of evidence and testimony that some upline leaders might be making almost all of their money from the system. Sure, an IBO can rationalize that upline might make only a hundred or two hundred bucks a month from them, but add that times the number of downline IBOs and figure it out.
Sure, some upline may tell you that you can eventually get a piece of the action at the platinum level, but there are no written compensation plans for the "system" that I know of. And so few IBOs ever reach platinum, that your chances of getting a small piece of the action are slim. Upline leaders may tell you that they want your success, but it may or may not be true, as your success might mean less income for them. I believe many upline leaders are just as happy to see new people replace old people, as long as they continue to have dedicated "customers" to purchase their system materials.
The upline leaders want to use your dream to motivate you to buy into their (tools) scheme. That's how Joecool sees it.
Amway - How An IBO Can Lose Tons Of Money And Not Notice
When I was recruited into Amway, I was told that I could make money, which would roll in forever and ever. Residual income. That was the concept that appealed to me when I was recruited. I was also intrigued when I was told thaty I could do as much or as little as I wanted.
However, when I signed up, my sponsor told me that I would be wasting my time signing up to sell products (not verbatim). That if I was going to get involved, I may as well try to build an organization and make the big bucks. I consented and then he immediately told me that I needed to get on standing order. I was told that standing order was a tape subscription and it was only $6 a tape. Nobody ever mentioned that every other week, it was a two tape set.
After a week or two, I had registered a couple of my friends into the business and my sponsor tells me that I cannot be a leader without attending all of the functions, and that I cannot listen to the same tapes over and over. That's when my expenses shot up like crazy. Of course I was excited with the folks I had sponsored so I went along with the plan, and I was edified for it so it seemed like I was "being an emerging leader".
Amway defenders question how I could possibly spend an average of nearly $1000 in a month for tools. Here's the breakdown, and although my WWDB group experience may not apply to all, I certainly continue to hear similar stories of abuse.
Standing order $36 a month. (6 tapes a month @ $6 each)
5-7 extra tapes each week $$120 - $168 a month
Amvox $24 a month
Open Meeting $6 a month
Regional functions $24 a month
Subtotal: $258/month
Major functions (4 times a year) I live in Hawaii, and major functions required mainland travel at peak travel times (January, March, July, October).
Round trip airfare $700
Hotel: $240 (for 2-3 days)
Rental car: $150 - 50 per day for 2-3 days)
Function tickets $100
Meals and other misc expenses pushed a major function to over $1200 for each trip.
These costs, not including gas money, totals about $8000 a year. Add in the cost of products and you are spending about $1000 a month on Amway. Yes, the products are not really a business expense, but then again, how many of those over-priced products would you buy if you were not an IBO? Do any former IBOs still buy double x? Do IBOs actually sell any double x? I believe these customers are rare.
If your sponsor told you that Amway would cost you nearly $1000 a month (high end, including product) or $100 a month (low end, not including products), would you still join? Once you agree to register, the expenses are then slowly revealed to youand in many cases, called investments into your business. Be wary and ask tough questions as to whether these items help you to make a profit, or whether they take away your profit.
However, when I signed up, my sponsor told me that I would be wasting my time signing up to sell products (not verbatim). That if I was going to get involved, I may as well try to build an organization and make the big bucks. I consented and then he immediately told me that I needed to get on standing order. I was told that standing order was a tape subscription and it was only $6 a tape. Nobody ever mentioned that every other week, it was a two tape set.
After a week or two, I had registered a couple of my friends into the business and my sponsor tells me that I cannot be a leader without attending all of the functions, and that I cannot listen to the same tapes over and over. That's when my expenses shot up like crazy. Of course I was excited with the folks I had sponsored so I went along with the plan, and I was edified for it so it seemed like I was "being an emerging leader".
Amway defenders question how I could possibly spend an average of nearly $1000 in a month for tools. Here's the breakdown, and although my WWDB group experience may not apply to all, I certainly continue to hear similar stories of abuse.
Standing order $36 a month. (6 tapes a month @ $6 each)
5-7 extra tapes each week $$120 - $168 a month
Amvox $24 a month
Open Meeting $6 a month
Regional functions $24 a month
Subtotal: $258/month
Major functions (4 times a year) I live in Hawaii, and major functions required mainland travel at peak travel times (January, March, July, October).
Round trip airfare $700
Hotel: $240 (for 2-3 days)
Rental car: $150 - 50 per day for 2-3 days)
Function tickets $100
Meals and other misc expenses pushed a major function to over $1200 for each trip.
These costs, not including gas money, totals about $8000 a year. Add in the cost of products and you are spending about $1000 a month on Amway. Yes, the products are not really a business expense, but then again, how many of those over-priced products would you buy if you were not an IBO? Do any former IBOs still buy double x? Do IBOs actually sell any double x? I believe these customers are rare.
If your sponsor told you that Amway would cost you nearly $1000 a month (high end, including product) or $100 a month (low end, not including products), would you still join? Once you agree to register, the expenses are then slowly revealed to youand in many cases, called investments into your business. Be wary and ask tough questions as to whether these items help you to make a profit, or whether they take away your profit.
Thursday, June 4, 2009
Amway - Amway And The Better Business Bureau
An anonymous poster who resides in Scarbourough Ontario Canada, recently posted a link from the better business bureau which I have attached:
www.bbb.org/western-michigan/business-reviews/multi-level-selling-co/amway-global-in-ada-mi-15000624
The link says Amway Global had an A+ rating. Congratulation to Amway Global. Certainly, even as a critic of the Amway opportunity, I can acknowledge that an A+ rating from the BBB is something to be proud of. However, even as a critic, I have said that my personal dealing with Amway customer service was always satisfactory or better. Here's what the BBB link says about their ratings: "BBB assigns grades from A to F with pluses and minuses. A+ is the highest grade and F is the lowest. The grade represents BBB’s degree of confidence that the business is operating in a trustworthy manner and will make a good faith effort to resolve any customer concerns" Thus Amway makes a good effort to manage and resolve customer complaints.
Many IBOs do not understand or are fed deception. The rating does not apply to your line of sponsorship. The rating does not say WWDB, Network 21 or BWW has an A+ rating from the BBB. Also, IBOs are not Amway! In IBO is an "independent business". Therefore, the BBB rating does not apply to IBOs.
It is this misuse of Amway's credibilty that deceptive upline leaders use to sell their system. It is why so many misinformed IBOs think that the BBB and the FTC endorse Amway. They do not endorse any business. They are regulatory agencies.
IBOs and Amway prospects, I challenge you to point out where the Better Business Bureau or the FTC says that the Amway opportunity is a good and profitable one.
God and search high and low, you won't find that information. You must remember that nobody here has Amway is illegal or provides poor customer service.
Joecool's contention is that the Amway Opportunity, in it's present form and as promoted by many LOS's, is a poor business opportunity for nearly all who register. Amway's average income, when disregarding "inactive IBOs", is $115 a month. If you can retire early on that income, then go for it.
www.bbb.org/western-michigan/business-reviews/multi-level-selling-co/amway-global-in-ada-mi-15000624
The link says Amway Global had an A+ rating. Congratulation to Amway Global. Certainly, even as a critic of the Amway opportunity, I can acknowledge that an A+ rating from the BBB is something to be proud of. However, even as a critic, I have said that my personal dealing with Amway customer service was always satisfactory or better. Here's what the BBB link says about their ratings: "BBB assigns grades from A to F with pluses and minuses. A+ is the highest grade and F is the lowest. The grade represents BBB’s degree of confidence that the business is operating in a trustworthy manner and will make a good faith effort to resolve any customer concerns" Thus Amway makes a good effort to manage and resolve customer complaints.
Many IBOs do not understand or are fed deception. The rating does not apply to your line of sponsorship. The rating does not say WWDB, Network 21 or BWW has an A+ rating from the BBB. Also, IBOs are not Amway! In IBO is an "independent business". Therefore, the BBB rating does not apply to IBOs.
It is this misuse of Amway's credibilty that deceptive upline leaders use to sell their system. It is why so many misinformed IBOs think that the BBB and the FTC endorse Amway. They do not endorse any business. They are regulatory agencies.
IBOs and Amway prospects, I challenge you to point out where the Better Business Bureau or the FTC says that the Amway opportunity is a good and profitable one.
God and search high and low, you won't find that information. You must remember that nobody here has Amway is illegal or provides poor customer service.
Joecool's contention is that the Amway Opportunity, in it's present form and as promoted by many LOS's, is a poor business opportunity for nearly all who register. Amway's average income, when disregarding "inactive IBOs", is $115 a month. If you can retire early on that income, then go for it.
Tuesday, June 2, 2009
Amway - Is Amway A Bait And Switch Scam For Upline?
Most Amway folks call themselves IBOs, or Independent Business Owners. If you are an IBO and are taught "Buy from yourself and teach others to do the same", you are basically a glorified customer of Amway. Amway "rewards" their IBOs by giving them a rebate, or a bonus based on the amount of volume that they move. IBOs are also able to "sponsor" others into their downline which would be counted towards their sponsor's overall volume. Also, in order for an IBO to reach various levels in the business such as "emerald" or "diamond", you need to sponsor other IBOs.
Because the emeral or diamond level is a goal for many, IBOs often focue their attention to sponsoring others. Some of these sponsoring or recruitment tactics have been unethical and has been the target of much criticism over the years.
But one of the biggest scam being pulled on IBOs is when they are recruited for the Amway opportunity, they shown people blowing up their alarm clocks (no job), fancy cars, residual income speeches, mansions and the like, all a part of the (diamond) lifestyle. Go diamond and you can have all of this.
Many recruits see what appears to be financial success while surrounded by a room full of people in suits, also "appearing successful". They are often told that attaining this is very likely - if you buy into the "system". The system consists of a website, voicemail, cds, books and seminars. Many IBOs do not notice that by consenting to participate in the system, they become dedicated "customers" of the system.
Now I have nothing against an IBO receiving some training on sales and how to run a business, but the system apparently does not teach these skills. There is also little or no evidence that the system actually works. My former LOA is WWDB. They proclaimed to be the best, most profitable and fastest growing when I was an IBO about 12 years ago. Since then I believe there have been more WWDB diamonds losing their homes to foreclosure or leaving Amway, then the amount of new diamonds emerging from the system.
The bait and switch scam is luring an innocent prospect to Amway, and then quietly converting that same prospect into a system participant. The prospect thinks he/she is assured of Amway success because of the system, but the vast majority of these recruits end up losing money or going broke/bankrupt - because of the system!
Because the emeral or diamond level is a goal for many, IBOs often focue their attention to sponsoring others. Some of these sponsoring or recruitment tactics have been unethical and has been the target of much criticism over the years.
But one of the biggest scam being pulled on IBOs is when they are recruited for the Amway opportunity, they shown people blowing up their alarm clocks (no job), fancy cars, residual income speeches, mansions and the like, all a part of the (diamond) lifestyle. Go diamond and you can have all of this.
Many recruits see what appears to be financial success while surrounded by a room full of people in suits, also "appearing successful". They are often told that attaining this is very likely - if you buy into the "system". The system consists of a website, voicemail, cds, books and seminars. Many IBOs do not notice that by consenting to participate in the system, they become dedicated "customers" of the system.
Now I have nothing against an IBO receiving some training on sales and how to run a business, but the system apparently does not teach these skills. There is also little or no evidence that the system actually works. My former LOA is WWDB. They proclaimed to be the best, most profitable and fastest growing when I was an IBO about 12 years ago. Since then I believe there have been more WWDB diamonds losing their homes to foreclosure or leaving Amway, then the amount of new diamonds emerging from the system.
The bait and switch scam is luring an innocent prospect to Amway, and then quietly converting that same prospect into a system participant. The prospect thinks he/she is assured of Amway success because of the system, but the vast majority of these recruits end up losing money or going broke/bankrupt - because of the system!
Monday, June 1, 2009
Amway - Big Talking IBOs, But No Substance
So many IBOs talk a good gameplan, but have nothing to back it up. A good example, is the self appointed Amway expert, IBOFightback. He sticks out his chest and acts like am Amway guru, but ask him what he has accompished in Amway and you will get some vague and probably BS answer such be being "at least a founder's 3%". In other words, he is probably a former 1000 PV pin, if even that.
Time after time, IBO after IBO comes and goes through these websites, talking big about success and how critics are broke, and losers, yet they disappear into thin air never to be heard from again. One of the big things IBOs talk about is duplication, but it appears that it is good in theory but not in practice. It's also easy to talk about finding customers but for many IBOs, their only "customers" are their downline, if they have any downline.
It's all common sense. How many customers are willing to pay $78 for multi vitamins when you can get a similar product for literally a fraction of the cost? Sure, Amway zealots like IBOFightback will argue quality, but as far as I know, there is zero unbiased evidence that double x is any better than the cheaper multi vitamins you can get elsewhere. Only a true Amway zealot like IBOfightback would actually argue the quality of toilet paper, but IBOfightback probably has never tried Kirkland toilet paper, which is a fraction of the cost of meadowbrook.
So IBOs, where is your substance? Are you making a profit after your expenses are considered? If you are profiting, can your downline make the same claim? Chances are they cannot. Can the biggest Amway defender show evidence that he profits? No, chances are he is just talk without substance. Of course he is welcome to provide such evidence, I would be glad to correct myself. *crickets chirping*
Time after time, IBO after IBO comes and goes through these websites, talking big about success and how critics are broke, and losers, yet they disappear into thin air never to be heard from again. One of the big things IBOs talk about is duplication, but it appears that it is good in theory but not in practice. It's also easy to talk about finding customers but for many IBOs, their only "customers" are their downline, if they have any downline.
It's all common sense. How many customers are willing to pay $78 for multi vitamins when you can get a similar product for literally a fraction of the cost? Sure, Amway zealots like IBOFightback will argue quality, but as far as I know, there is zero unbiased evidence that double x is any better than the cheaper multi vitamins you can get elsewhere. Only a true Amway zealot like IBOfightback would actually argue the quality of toilet paper, but IBOfightback probably has never tried Kirkland toilet paper, which is a fraction of the cost of meadowbrook.
So IBOs, where is your substance? Are you making a profit after your expenses are considered? If you are profiting, can your downline make the same claim? Chances are they cannot. Can the biggest Amway defender show evidence that he profits? No, chances are he is just talk without substance. Of course he is welcome to provide such evidence, I would be glad to correct myself. *crickets chirping*
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