Tuesday, June 2, 2009

Amway - Is Amway A Bait And Switch Scam For Upline?

Most Amway folks call themselves IBOs, or Independent Business Owners. If you are an IBO and are taught "Buy from yourself and teach others to do the same", you are basically a glorified customer of Amway. Amway "rewards" their IBOs by giving them a rebate, or a bonus based on the amount of volume that they move. IBOs are also able to "sponsor" others into their downline which would be counted towards their sponsor's overall volume. Also, in order for an IBO to reach various levels in the business such as "emerald" or "diamond", you need to sponsor other IBOs.

Because the emeral or diamond level is a goal for many, IBOs often focue their attention to sponsoring others. Some of these sponsoring or recruitment tactics have been unethical and has been the target of much criticism over the years.

But one of the biggest scam being pulled on IBOs is when they are recruited for the Amway opportunity, they shown people blowing up their alarm clocks (no job), fancy cars, residual income speeches, mansions and the like, all a part of the (diamond) lifestyle. Go diamond and you can have all of this.

Many recruits see what appears to be financial success while surrounded by a room full of people in suits, also "appearing successful". They are often told that attaining this is very likely - if you buy into the "system". The system consists of a website, voicemail, cds, books and seminars. Many IBOs do not notice that by consenting to participate in the system, they become dedicated "customers" of the system.

Now I have nothing against an IBO receiving some training on sales and how to run a business, but the system apparently does not teach these skills. There is also little or no evidence that the system actually works. My former LOA is WWDB. They proclaimed to be the best, most profitable and fastest growing when I was an IBO about 12 years ago. Since then I believe there have been more WWDB diamonds losing their homes to foreclosure or leaving Amway, then the amount of new diamonds emerging from the system.

The bait and switch scam is luring an innocent prospect to Amway, and then quietly converting that same prospect into a system participant. The prospect thinks he/she is assured of Amway success because of the system, but the vast majority of these recruits end up losing money or going broke/bankrupt - because of the system!


Awesome!!! said...

You Sir are a moron. Keep on being one! You're doing a hell of a job!

Joecool said...

Hi anonymous from Scarborough Ontario Canada. Who do you think you're fooling posting under all kinds of fake names?

mrmaximum said...

I think I will say this about my AmQuix experience. When I joined the AmQuix business almost 7 years ago, the reason why I joined was because of the fact that my upline Ruby at the time DIDN'T make fun of possible prospects (well much). Anyone who didn't agree to the plan was simply dismissed as someone who didn't have a dream and that was that. The term loser or anything else very derogatory was saved for the 'ignorant' people who would treat you as an IBO badly for trying to show them the plan or just after the fact.
The main thing which made me respect this man was thet fact that he was upset at the OTHER IBO's that did ridiculous antics that made ALL IBO's look bad. We where told NOT to prospect cashiers or people while they worked as they had most likely already been badgered before and would spread those tales to other prospective people which we didn't want. He wanted to make sure that none of the people in his group made AmQuix look bad with the same stupid name calling and foolish childishness that is so typical of other groups. If you did that you could expect a warning or two, then you would be kicked out, he was trying to create goodwill ambassadors for AmQuix, not propogate the negative stereotypes that are all over the AMO's as we speak.
YOU anonymous, are doing exactly what my old upline hated and warned us all against. People are indeed googling Amway and looking at this blog, considering what Joe has to say while making their own conclusions about the business and then you come on here and continually make an @$$ of yourself.
What, pray tell, does THAT look like to a prospective IBO? Countering intelligence with childishness stopped working once we all left the playground.

Keep shooting yourself in the foot Anon, you are assisting in the demise of the AmQuix business with all the pointless tripe you post!!

Just As Awesome said...

Dear Joecool, I'm not fooling anyone because I don't have to. Instead, I let people freely fool themselves to the fullest! What a spectacle, isn't that neat?!
Literally, my name is just as original and as fake as yours! But my Double X is real! Au revoir!

Joecool said...

Hi anonymous from Scarborough Ontario Canada. Who do you think you're fooling posting under all kinds of fake names?

Do you think one of these days you will post something with some substance? Or will you continue to make yourself and IBOs in general, look stupid?

freediddy said...

alright i was searching like for the past few weeks to see if i really wanted to join up and be an ibo ive read from the middle of may up til now and im pretty sure joecool your a pretty cool guy annon seriously all everyone pretty much wants to know is that are the higher ups majority of the ppl that are making the money explain in depth just once what you do how you do it to make good money in this economy and show proof of what you have if you can do that im pretty sure all of the ideas of ppl thinkin this business is something so bad will stop honestly i just got help from an ibo without even signing up and will continue to help no matter what i do that type of a person is one i would either like to work with or at least be around becuz it does help as insignificant as it may seem it really honestly does

mrmaximum said...

Okay, I will say this. Joecool is on a mission to show people the other side of the AmQuix opportunity (good for you Joe, people NEED to see what their prospective upline WON'T tell them). Anon, with your childishness all you are doing is HELPING Joe's cause. Post something intelligent or you may as well simply be posting negative about AmQuix.

Ever been to court? I hope not. Heck, lets say you watch Law and Order before you where registered. Ever see a good case won by a lawyer saying that the person on trial was a moron or a jerk without a case? SAYS MORE ABOUT THE LAWYER DOESN'T.

You are helping the cause of the critics with your lunacy and lack of a concrete arguement, thanks for the help.

Awesome!!! said...


Check this out with The Better Business Bureau first.


Then you have a choice to make; listen to Joecool who quit or to The Better Business Bureau which has more expertise in the subject than Joecool does.

No one can choose for you. You do!

Joecool said...

Yes, Anonymous from Canada. The better busienss bureau says Amway settles their complaints in a satisfactory manner. Does it say IBOs make a profit? no, they don't.

Awesome!!! said...

Joecool, you totally miss the point here. It is up to the IBOs to decide what level they want to take their business at. No one tells them to do nothing but then no one tells them to do something either. They choose what they want out of it. Mind you, it seems that according to your personal story, at 4000 PV you were making somewhere around $1000/month. To me, that's some money coming in. Not a whole lot but what would $1000/month do for you or for anyone else? You figure it out. If you can't accept that then it sounds to me that you're a plain deluded man! The Better Business Bureau can't possibly say what your chances of profit are in any business. All they can tell you is whether a business is in or against the public interest. And to me it sounds that Amway as a member of The Better Business Bureau has officially been in good standing with this organization since 1979! How about the Sicilian Mafia? Is the Sicilian Mafia a member of The Better Business Bureau in good standing? I don't think so! Seriously, I believe that you're a very disturbed individual!

Joecool said...

Hey Awesome/Anonymous from Scarborough Ontario Canada,

When I was at 4000 PV, my "net" income was zero because my upline advised me to "invest" all my profit in tools.

$1000 a month can do a lot of someone. How many people in Amway make $1000 a month after expenses? Very very few. I bet you don't either. Of course you are welcome to prove me wrong but you can't, can you?

Amway is not a member of the BBB. The BBB is not a club. The BBB is a regulatory agency. Amway may be registered with the BBB and as I said, Amway does a good job managing complaints.

But you are not Amway! You are your own business.

If I'm disturbed, it's only because I have been unable to explain these simple concepts to you. Maybe you should let up on drinking that kool aid? LOL

Awesome!!! said...

$1000 a month can do a lot of someone.

You agree it seems but really agree to disagree.
Mind you, did you have a job when you were building your business? Most likely you did. And you were using part of your job income to build your business. So, that monthly $1000 would stay in your pocket. I can't fathom how you would spend all that money on tools! I spend somewhere around $50 to $250 per month depending on the need to. You were doing something wrong and you understood wrong! You are told by your mentor to invest in your business but you aren't told to put all your eggs in it! It sounds to me that you did just the opposite and it really baffles me why you would do something like that.

Amway is not a member of the BBB?

"Amway Global is also a member of the Direct Selling Association[3] and the Better Business Bureau.[4]"


You have been more than able to clearly, simply, properly explain these simple concepts to anyone who speaks basic English. Problem is, your arguments only sound credible. But you're a smart guy able to recognize yet deny the above. That's what qualifies you as a disturbed individual.

Joecool said...

Anonymous, are you just trying to obfuscate the discussion with your bull poop?

$1000 a month can help many people, but less than 1% of IBOs make a profit, much less a $1000 profit. At least with a job, you have a net gain each month.

How do you spend $1000 a month on tools? I didn't spend $1000 every month, but it averaged out. I live in Hawaii. Every three months we have amajor function on the mainland, during peak travel season. Airfare could cost up to $700, not including hotel, rental car and other expenses including the function. Our group was also taught (WWDB) to buy 5 or more tapes each week in addition to standing order.

Here's what I said about Amway and the BBB: " Amway may be registered with the BBB", but what I meant is the BBB is not some kind of club that you belong to.

Awesome!!! said...

Joecool, how about you cool down? Else, change your name to Joehot. Be my guest!

Did you figure out why less than 1% of IBOs make a profit? According to your personal story, you should be able to figure it out without any problem because you were among the top few who earned in the neighborhood of $ 1000/month, right?

Again, I don't understand how you can possibly average out $1000/month on tools. I spend anywhere between $50 to $250/month on tools. In general I average out around $125/month. And frankly, I don't find that as a waste of money. I enjoy the tools and I apply what I learn in small baby steps. Even so, I can't apply everything I learn in a month. It's an ongoing process. If you're serious about your personal spending on tools, you were doing something wrong.

Moving on to the rest of the issue, function cost (which is cheap, $100 per person, compared to other business functions that can cost thousands of dollars per person), travel cost, hotel cost, restaurant cost, these issues you have to take responsibility for and apply sound judgement in the process. If you can't afford them, then don't. No one is gonna kill you. Outgrow the problem so that the problem won't kill you.

Now on to the next. Amway may be registered with the BBB... No! It's either registered or not registered, period. There's no "maybe". But what I meant... is to say that I haven't really taken too seriously that material you posted. Well, too bad!
Here's what it comes down to. Since Amway Global is a BBB member and I have an independent Amway Global business bound by the Amway Global regulations, not only am I representing Amway Global (not to confuse with being the owner of Amway Global) but in the process, I'm bound by automatically being a member of BBB. So, if I were to close down my Amway Global business, I would no longer be bound to being a member of BBB. I hope that's clear with you.

Joecool said...

Awesome said: Again, I don't understand how you can possibly average out $1000/month on tools. I spend anywhere between $50 to $250/month on tools. In general I average out around $125/month.

Joe says: and I assume you earn $9 a month so you are losing about $116 a month? What a great business, where can I sign up?

mrmaximum said...

You know; sometimes I really wonder if the reason why IBO's get so hot under the collar isn't because of how bad critics make the business look to prospects, but because of how bad critics make the business look period. If you know you are in a crappy situation, but are trying to make it work, anyone pointing out the flaws will also be pointing out your own shortcomings.

Almost as if by coming on so strong, an IBO is simply trying to convince themselves of the legitimacy of their business. Trust me when I have said I have done this myself in the past!!

rlaurens said...

mrmaximum, that's an excellent insight. Sometime back, I also raise similar point. I own a franchise, and I would just laugh if people said that franchise doesn't work, etc., etc. because I keep on making tons of money and it reduces competition.
Amway/Quixtar IBO is the only bunch that got so bothered when their biz is criticized. If you're making money, why do you care??

Joecool said...

And if I can toss in my two cents, IBOs are their own worst enemies. For example, critics didn't deny that Quixtar = Amway, or critics don't trick people into attending Amway meetings. Critics didn't force IBOs to lie about their business.

Awesome!!! said...

Joecool, it's good that you assume a $9/month cheque. However, you only assume that now because you're talking to me. Let's see about that when you stop taking to me. Truth is that it will no longer be an assumption but a personal conviction. After all, you're the guy who claims that all IBOs average out $115/month when you happen to be the exception who earned around $1000/month. As for how the $116 are concerned, they come from other sources, not from the business itself. And again, you somehow believe that the $116 is a waste of money . Add the $9 too to balance the math :). Fine, that's your opinion but that doesn't do me justice. Again, why are you focusing on the little details that pertain exclusively to me?

Levi said...

Awesome what do you teach your downline first?
Get on standing order CD's like you or Get good at selling/recommending a few products and make a profit?

Awesome!!! said...


I show them the products I personally use and I give them some samples to try. Then I expose them to the available merchandise on the Quixtar website. Then, to develop immediate profit, I suggest they approach people they know well to give them some samples. Get some customers that way. Then, to build a solid business structure, I get them on both, the educational material and the team coaching to teach them how to become not just leaders, but leaders by duplicability. That's my way. Maybe yours is different.

Not Awesome! said...

You just explained why your business is a failure. Leaders cannot be duplicated. They emerge. This is not a cloning business.

Levi said...

freediddy, First off dont be an idiot. You think you get accurate information by blogging?
thats how you plan to get the informaton you need? Walk away from it you dont have the proper education to do a venture like Amway yet. If you want to become a doctor you dont ask a lawyer and vice versa. If you want to know about business ask a businessman. A good book to read is by Donald Trump and Robert Kyosaki "why we want you to be rich". They have a chapter dedicated to MLM and give thier reasons for why they see it as an easy way for the average person to get thier hands on a business for a low start up while buildig an education in the business world. Let Joe Talk his talk about whatever he wants but we dont know joe from adam. We have heard of Donald Trump his successes and failures. There are many other good sources to get the proper information. But if you are going to take advice from an internet google or blog then save yourself the worry you are not ready yet.

Anonymous said...

Any MLM business work, it is all proportional to the amount of time, money and effort you put into a business. As for the so called leaders, i know that breed very well, have you ever been between a group of christians and you're not one? have you ever felt more doomed than that? because they already accepted the lord, and now it doesn't matter they once were junkies, drunks, many used to beat their wives, but they are now forgiven because one day they decided to become christians. However, all those who haven't accepted the lord, and who simply refuse to go in a church and scream like mad, but have never done any drugs, and have been good people overall, they're still doomed because they don't join the mass. These MLM business's leaders are kinda like that, you can already be rich, and even have more money than they do, and you will always be ignorant and a looser before their eyes. It seems like the money they make is worth more than yours, even yours is a lil bit more.

Anonymous said...

I feel sorry for you guys who are blinded by the Amway Koolaide.

The fact is the average amway distributor does not make money, period. Its about 100 bucks a month. Now you can listen to the excuses of your upline but thats exactly how the business works, those OTHER guys are losers, they are obviously not buying enough tapes and books they are not doing the program correctly, thats why they dont make money. blah blah blah

Dont you see , the money made by the diamonds etc is in the TAPES and books. THAT is why they shout from the rooftops that you MUST do the program and buy all these materials. There is no money in selling the products, period. Amway is a pyramid scheme however Jay and Whatever his name is who own it, are so highly connected with legislators and congresmen they dont get indicted.

YOu guys are chumps. The sooner you start listening to the neggies, the better off you will be.
Amway is a cult,
I knew a guy, nicest most charismatic guy, super salesman, had been in the company for like 10 yrs and he STILL was not yet a direct distributor. The out of towner upline kept telling him to buy more tapes and go to more seminars and he would be rich like them someday

Its really a pathetic company
They will recruit anyone with a pulse

Anonymous said...

As an interested IBO, I have evaluated these statements and can say, based on literacy, that most IBO's are unintelligent weasels. It amazes me to watch many idiots congregate in a building, (for a nominal fee), then give praise to a speaker who is half comedian/half preacher. I have a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering and I feel like amway is a total scam. I pity those who have been sucked into it, and I warn those who are near the danger. A real business meeting is about physical decisions which profit the company, not a pep-rally so that all the minnow's in the room can "secretly" become sharks. I haven't lost any money using amway because I'm smart enough to recognize moronic fecal matter. Remember, unless you are a communist, one can only win big by taking a little from everyone. The problem we face today is that "everyone" is starting to lack that "little."

Anonymous said...

well, there are will always be successful people and losers as well as critics and those that look at things far more beyond what the eye can see. if people get successful by doing this why can't i? not every opportunity is for everybody. if you're not successful doing this, then don't ruin the business for others. find your own cup of tea.

Anonymous said...

well reading this blog isn't going to help YOU, so get out there and put your words to work.

Anonymous said...

You know to attend a conference is $500, say on average 10,000 "amway believers" attend, Thats $5 million!!!! Say 4 main speakers, $1 million for venue hire and other costs. They will be taking a million bucks each home! Thats how these sharks make their money! and buy 32 cars! (sure thats bs!) They keep getting richer, making you believe you need these "essential" products/seminars! Any one who is considering this needs to watch the dateline special on amway and see what crap it really is!

Anonymous said...

i just joined amway in ireland looks promising, but not easy

Anonymous said...

of course it looks promising. that's the whole point of it still existing!

Anonymous said...

Please Friends Don't join Amway. People can,t understand the game plan of masterminds behind this scam which is called Amway. It is a simple mathematical calculation. The Amway products price are three times high than the products available in market. suppose you got a Product "A" from market in Rs.10. And if you buy it from Amway you have to pay Rs. 30 for it. The Amway owners got directly big profit which is Rs. 10 means 1/3 of total price of a product. Amway spend Rs.5 to make quality some better other than any products available in the market. And the remaining Rs. 5 gives back to the customer. This way your money come back to you. Then what is so special about Amway.So don't make fool of yourself. Please comment on this post.