According to a U.S. Census Department study entitled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" (http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23%2D210.pdf), over an adult's working life the following are average lifetime earnings based on educational level attained:
High school graduates - $1.2 million
Bachelor's degree - $2.1 million
Master's degree - $2.5 million
Doctoral degrees - $3.4 million
Professional degrees do best at $4.4 million.
In 1999, average annual earnings ranged from $18,900 for high school dropouts to $25,900 for high school graduates, $45,400 for college graduates and $99,300 for the holders of professional degrees (medical doctors, dentists, veterinarians and lawyers).
Given empirical, verified and objective data demonstrating that a college education more than pays for itself, it is foolish for someone to suggest that they can't reasonably expect a return on their investment in a college education. It would take a real moron to suggest that they could exceed that return by wasting their time building an Amway business. Especially given the data showing miserable average results.
As far as the cost of that education and the implication that a person will incur massive debt, that too is a complete fabrication.
For those of you interested in the actual data on student loans and the effect of a college education on earnings, look here:
http://www.studentloanfacts.org/NR/rdonlyres/97FD743A-8F38-4641-916A-C4D907A84EE5/0/factbook.pdf
and here:
http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/press/cost03/cb_trends_aid_2003.pdf
and here:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2003/pdf/42_2003.pdf
Oh, and if you are an "average" IBO, spending 40 years working Amway with the average earnings of $115 a month, your career of 40 years will gross you $55,200.
Thursday, September 24, 2009
Tuesday, September 22, 2009
Amway - Amway And The Better Business Bureau?
Over the years, I have seen literally hundreds (if not more) blogs and testimonials about Amway. Most of them decry the pitfalls of being an Amway IBO. Most of the complaints cite the fact that Amway in general has higher prices than comparable retailers and the fact that the system consisting of voicemail, books, cds and seminars ate up any profits the IBO may have made and resulted in net losses for most. One particular Amway apologist bemoans the fact that the internet is full of bad testomonials about Amway. The reason why there are so many negative testimonials about Amway is because over the years, thousands, possibly millions either had a bad experience for the reasons I cited above, or personally know of someone who had a bad experience.
Amway defenders will often cite the fact that many IBOs sign up and "do nothing" as their defense to this. But I will easily point out that I haven't seen anyone say they signed up, failed to do anything or order products, quit and started blogging about a bad experience in Amway. These defenders will also compare Amway to the gym where people sign up and "do nothing". Whether true or not, I also do not see people who sign up and "do nothing" complain about not receiving health benefits by simply signing up. It is a very weak defense. Conversely, I have seen numerous accounts of folks like myself who did put in effort, some for many years, who did what upline advised and did not see the financial rewards that is promoted in "the plan".
Amway defenders will then try to justify themselves, saying that the better business bureau (BBB) receives few formal complaints about Amway. I will agree with this. Many IBOs never bother to file formal complaints to the BBB or to Amway because in many, probably most cases, the person who quits and may have had a bad experience, was sponsored into the business. The sponsor was often a friend or family member of the IBO who left the business. Many will simply leave and forget the episode and chalk it up to a learning experience in life. Some will complain, but really have to ne venue to voice their remorse about joining. Some of us have found the interent to be quite effective in sharing our experiences and our opinions on why the business did not work. This is what one Amway defender calls the "internet war". What I have pointed out is that critics most often simply point out what the IBOs themselves have done. In many cases, the IBO is his own worst enemy. Afterall, critics didn't deny Amway and Quixtar had a connection, nor did critics make up claims about perfect water, etc.
It would appear that most of the problems has a root in the AMO systems, such as WWDB, BWW, LTD, or N21. Now, not all upline leaders are unethical, but it appears that many are, and new IBOs have no way to identify the good from the bad. It also appears that some of these upline leaders will issue bad avice. Advice that is detrimental to the IBOs, but financially beneficial to themselves, such as telling IBOs to never miss a function, or to buy more cds. In many cases, these unethical uplines do not care about IBO success, their goal is just to move as many support materials as possible, so they can fund their "diamond" lifestyle. Sadly, it is also apparent that the diamond lifestyle may be a facade in some cases. An illusion of wealth portrayed as a recruiting tool.
If you recognize some of these warning signs, ask tough questions of your potential sponsor and visit this or some of the blogs linked to this one for more information.
Amway defenders will often cite the fact that many IBOs sign up and "do nothing" as their defense to this. But I will easily point out that I haven't seen anyone say they signed up, failed to do anything or order products, quit and started blogging about a bad experience in Amway. These defenders will also compare Amway to the gym where people sign up and "do nothing". Whether true or not, I also do not see people who sign up and "do nothing" complain about not receiving health benefits by simply signing up. It is a very weak defense. Conversely, I have seen numerous accounts of folks like myself who did put in effort, some for many years, who did what upline advised and did not see the financial rewards that is promoted in "the plan".
Amway defenders will then try to justify themselves, saying that the better business bureau (BBB) receives few formal complaints about Amway. I will agree with this. Many IBOs never bother to file formal complaints to the BBB or to Amway because in many, probably most cases, the person who quits and may have had a bad experience, was sponsored into the business. The sponsor was often a friend or family member of the IBO who left the business. Many will simply leave and forget the episode and chalk it up to a learning experience in life. Some will complain, but really have to ne venue to voice their remorse about joining. Some of us have found the interent to be quite effective in sharing our experiences and our opinions on why the business did not work. This is what one Amway defender calls the "internet war". What I have pointed out is that critics most often simply point out what the IBOs themselves have done. In many cases, the IBO is his own worst enemy. Afterall, critics didn't deny Amway and Quixtar had a connection, nor did critics make up claims about perfect water, etc.
It would appear that most of the problems has a root in the AMO systems, such as WWDB, BWW, LTD, or N21. Now, not all upline leaders are unethical, but it appears that many are, and new IBOs have no way to identify the good from the bad. It also appears that some of these upline leaders will issue bad avice. Advice that is detrimental to the IBOs, but financially beneficial to themselves, such as telling IBOs to never miss a function, or to buy more cds. In many cases, these unethical uplines do not care about IBO success, their goal is just to move as many support materials as possible, so they can fund their "diamond" lifestyle. Sadly, it is also apparent that the diamond lifestyle may be a facade in some cases. An illusion of wealth portrayed as a recruiting tool.
If you recognize some of these warning signs, ask tough questions of your potential sponsor and visit this or some of the blogs linked to this one for more information.
Monday, September 21, 2009
Amway - Personal Responsibility?
One of the disturbing things I have noticed about Amway IBOs and IBO leaders is how they wlll tell downline to trust them. To trust them as they have already blazed a trail. No need to re-invent the wheel. Just ride the coattails of your upline to success. The system is proven. Many IBOs take this to heart and put forth tremendous effort. Then when they fail, upline will shun them and tell them that the failure is their own. That they are personally responsible for failure.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I di not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 15 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from?
I will pass.
Now I am not talking about IBOs who sign up and do nothing, or never place an order. I do believe that the fact that many IBOs sign up and do nothing brings concerns about how these IBOs were recruited, but I di not recall ever seeing an IBO do nothing and then complain that Amway was a scam or anything like that.
I have found, however, that many people who are critical of Amway and the systems, put forth much effort, did everything they were told, and did not find the success that upline promoted, or in some cases, guaranteed. My former sponsor was still active, last I heard and has been in Amway for over 15 years. I do not believe he has ever gone beyond platinum, and I know that he was never a Q12 platinum. Some Amway apologists might see being a platinum as a bonus, but when you are hard core sold out to the systems, platinum is a break even or make a small profit business. Factor in that time spent by husband and wife and these folks are breaking even or making a fraction of minumum wage. Is this the dream that will allow you to buy mansions with a cash payment?
What is also disturbing is how people will tout the system as responsible for any success, but hide the vast majority that the system doesn't help. Sure, some will succeed in Amway, but for every success, there are hundreds if not thousands who fail. And if you consider diamond as the benchmark of success, the failures could be in the millions. As I said, some succeed, but very very few in relation to the number who try. Going diamond is probably less common in the US than winning the lottery.
Succeed and the systems and upline take credit, but fail or quit and it is your own responsibility. Are these the kinds of leaders or mentors you want advice from?
I will pass.
Friday, September 18, 2009
Amway - Building The Business?
One of the battle cries that were around when I was an IBO was that we were building the business. But as I look back at my Amway experience, I was truly misguided by upline about building a business. We were advised to submit to upline, as many IBOs today, apparently are still advised. We should not try to blaze a new trail, but simply follow in the footsteps of our leaders. Why re-invent the wheel,, we were told. Just use the one that upline created. That trail or wheel was the "system" which consisted of tapes/cds, books, seminars. Follow the system and you were assured of Amway success.
As I look back, I didn't know what building a business really meant. For most businesses, you need ot get more and more customers, or to build your customer base. That is building a business. As you get more and more customers, your business grows and gets more income. In the Amway business, most business building IBOs focus on sponsoring others which may not result in any increase of volume as many newbies do not order goods or quit before doing any substantial business. Also, because of the past antics of many IBOs and IBO leaders, the Amway opportunity
has a bad reputation and recruiting and sponsoring is very difficult for most people.
Even if an IBO were to try and build their business in the traditional manner of selling goods and trying to get more and more customers, they will have trouble finding and retaining customers. That is because Amway products in general cost more than big box and local retailers. As you try to build your customer base, retention of customers will be difficult because of said prices. And the reason for higher prices is because the 30% or so given back to IBOs must be included in the prices of the products.
I know many Amway supporters will argue about Amway's quality of goods, but quality is subjective and the average consumer will look at the bottom line (the price), and not the quality. But to address this, I have not seen any unbiased reports indicating that Amway products are superior to others. And because other companies such as Proctor and Gamble advertise, Amway IBOs have a huge competitive disadvantage.
The way that the few successful IBOs make it in Amway is to find enough downline to suffer the losses for you, and eventually enough downline to pay upline through tools and product purchases, in order for you to make your income.
So are you building a business or looking for downline to sacrifice on your way up the (legal) pyramid?
As I look back, I didn't know what building a business really meant. For most businesses, you need ot get more and more customers, or to build your customer base. That is building a business. As you get more and more customers, your business grows and gets more income. In the Amway business, most business building IBOs focus on sponsoring others which may not result in any increase of volume as many newbies do not order goods or quit before doing any substantial business. Also, because of the past antics of many IBOs and IBO leaders, the Amway opportunity
has a bad reputation and recruiting and sponsoring is very difficult for most people.
Even if an IBO were to try and build their business in the traditional manner of selling goods and trying to get more and more customers, they will have trouble finding and retaining customers. That is because Amway products in general cost more than big box and local retailers. As you try to build your customer base, retention of customers will be difficult because of said prices. And the reason for higher prices is because the 30% or so given back to IBOs must be included in the prices of the products.
I know many Amway supporters will argue about Amway's quality of goods, but quality is subjective and the average consumer will look at the bottom line (the price), and not the quality. But to address this, I have not seen any unbiased reports indicating that Amway products are superior to others. And because other companies such as Proctor and Gamble advertise, Amway IBOs have a huge competitive disadvantage.
The way that the few successful IBOs make it in Amway is to find enough downline to suffer the losses for you, and eventually enough downline to pay upline through tools and product purchases, in order for you to make your income.
So are you building a business or looking for downline to sacrifice on your way up the (legal) pyramid?
Thursday, September 17, 2009
Amway - Helping People?
One of the things my upline said at nearly every meeting was how we were helping people by sharing the dream and showing others the Amway plan. "Helping people". He claimed that IBOs became better people and were doing good for the community by helping people. I always thought ths was odd because the only people we really "helped" were those who got into the business. We didn't hang out with or help anyone else.
How do you help someone when your life is dedicated to buying and selling Amway products, recruiting Amway prospects and attending Amway related meetings to learn how to recruit more Amway IBOs and to motivate yourself to never quit the business. I used to think about people doing volunteer work, or community service projects, or even outreach through their churches. These are the real everydy heroes who are helping others. While an outreach volunteer feeds the homeless, IBOs are in meetings. When people are doing community service projects, IBOs are showing the plan or prospecting the malls for new recruits. Who is actually helping people?
Yes, I am aware that IBOs at times, contribute to Easter Seals and the like, but do they invest the kind of time that others do? And I'm not faulting IBOs, but simply pointing out that the Amway business activities can eat away at your time and prevent you from spending time with family and friends, and prevent you from actually "helping others". While the Amway business is no different that other businesses and the like in that regard, I do not feel that the tiny average earnings of IBOs make it worth their while to spend all of that time in meetings and recruitng to make their return on their investment a worthwhile activity.
So in all of the activities you engage in as an IBO, are you helping people? Or are you only helping people who might be interested in joining your Amway business?
How do you help someone when your life is dedicated to buying and selling Amway products, recruiting Amway prospects and attending Amway related meetings to learn how to recruit more Amway IBOs and to motivate yourself to never quit the business. I used to think about people doing volunteer work, or community service projects, or even outreach through their churches. These are the real everydy heroes who are helping others. While an outreach volunteer feeds the homeless, IBOs are in meetings. When people are doing community service projects, IBOs are showing the plan or prospecting the malls for new recruits. Who is actually helping people?
Yes, I am aware that IBOs at times, contribute to Easter Seals and the like, but do they invest the kind of time that others do? And I'm not faulting IBOs, but simply pointing out that the Amway business activities can eat away at your time and prevent you from spending time with family and friends, and prevent you from actually "helping others". While the Amway business is no different that other businesses and the like in that regard, I do not feel that the tiny average earnings of IBOs make it worth their while to spend all of that time in meetings and recruitng to make their return on their investment a worthwhile activity.
So in all of the activities you engage in as an IBO, are you helping people? Or are you only helping people who might be interested in joining your Amway business?
Wednesday, September 16, 2009
Amway - Are You Broke Or A Loser?
LOL, one of the classic "tapespeak" lines that IBOs use is to call someone a broke loser if they do not join Amway or if they are critical of the Amway opportunity. Rich DeVos, co-founder and owner of Amway once made a speech where he discouraged this kind of behavior. But apparently, upline leaders continue to use that term or possibly teach it at functions. How else would newbie IBOs learn something like this?
What I find humorous in this is that IBOs often join Amway because they are in need of more cash! It is often the IBOs who are seeking easy wealth, or at least a "shortcut" to retirement and lifelong residual income. It is how the business if often pitched to potential recruits. Whenever an IBO tells me that his sponsor talks about how Amway is hard work that they will not get rich quickly, I ask them why they joined if that wasn't the case?
My former upline used to talk about how you need to control time and money in your life to achieve balance. And control of time and money is the ultimate prize to many aspiring IBOs. They believe that if they achieve diamond, they will wake up at noon every day, not have to work, and live in the lap of luxury. What is ironic is that while most active (system) IBOs are seeking more time and money, time and money is what they have less of because of their business particpation and business expenses (cds, tapes, books, voicemail, seminars/functions). Looking at the 6-4-2 plan, the majority of those active IBOs will earn less than $15 a month but will have expenses ranging from $150 to $500 a month for the system, depending on their dedication.
So as an IBO who is recruiting potential downline, if you decide to call someone broke or a loser, maybe you need to look in the mirror first? :-)
What I find humorous in this is that IBOs often join Amway because they are in need of more cash! It is often the IBOs who are seeking easy wealth, or at least a "shortcut" to retirement and lifelong residual income. It is how the business if often pitched to potential recruits. Whenever an IBO tells me that his sponsor talks about how Amway is hard work that they will not get rich quickly, I ask them why they joined if that wasn't the case?
My former upline used to talk about how you need to control time and money in your life to achieve balance. And control of time and money is the ultimate prize to many aspiring IBOs. They believe that if they achieve diamond, they will wake up at noon every day, not have to work, and live in the lap of luxury. What is ironic is that while most active (system) IBOs are seeking more time and money, time and money is what they have less of because of their business particpation and business expenses (cds, tapes, books, voicemail, seminars/functions). Looking at the 6-4-2 plan, the majority of those active IBOs will earn less than $15 a month but will have expenses ranging from $150 to $500 a month for the system, depending on their dedication.
So as an IBO who is recruiting potential downline, if you decide to call someone broke or a loser, maybe you need to look in the mirror first? :-)
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
Amway - Lying Or Fake It Till You Make It?
An apparent IBO recently engaged me on facebook. I copied his statements and my responses. He goes by the name "Mike". He engaged me for a few exchanges and then he later comes back a month later to try and recruit me. In the exchange I catch him in a lie. Maybe he is learning fake it till you make it?
August 17 at 2:54pm Mike:
you wouldn't know a real biz if it hit you in the face.... who r u fooling???
Joe says: Who are you? Some Amway dude?
August 17 at 2:58pm Mike:
8.2 bil this year WITHOUT you... will be over 9 bill when the #'s all shake out... all WITHOUT you... r u stupid... this is fact!!! oh you must have a job... mike
Joe says: Amway 9 billion, Walmart 401 billion. No comparison.
August 17 at 3:04pm Mike:
lets see ... yes walmart great co... what do they do... oh they distrib.... only prob. with walmart can't have a biz... 15,000 new ibo's per day... over 40 mil. hits on the web everyday... the ONLY debt FREE co on the web that doing over a bill in biz .... income i'm plat. yrly 35-40 k...
Joe says: Debt free? Good for Amway. You are not Amway.
August 17 at 3:27pm Mike:
first thing you can do is call corp... they will give you doc... have been debt free from day one when rich & jay started... i don't know where you went to school but you must have flunked math... your crazy to think over head is 3k per month... no one gets sucked in... they join on their own... how many people start college and never finish... oh lets see ... they quit... mmmmm spent $$$$ on tuition/ books/ room-board....
Joe says: So are you profitable? Mike responds with the broke loser statement but a month later, he’s back………..
September 14 at 4:45pm Mike:
hey Joe... mike here.... do you want me to sponsor you??? had 3 new people at a home meeting on thur. last week... 2 are in and 1 customer... things are going well... mike
Joe says: It’s great that you had people at your meeting. Having people at a meeting doesn’t make you any money does it?
September 15 at 11:51am Mike:
have ALWAY'S been profitable.... i make a profit in EVERY biz i have... have been since i was 22... mike
Joe says: Are you making a net profit? What level are you?
September 15 at 2:24pm Mike:
yeh.. hi Joe... gas, cd's, functions and other expense 300-400.00 monthly... biggest expense are function weekends... run bout 300.00 for ticket,room and food... made over 50k... high margin of profit... must hang in to build the biz right... mike
Joecool commentary: So this IBO admits his expenses run about $300 to $400 a month to “build the business right”. You will notice that a month ago he was a platinum making $35 to $40K. Now, a month later he says he is making $50K. Clearly he is lying, probably faking it but not making it. Why do so many IBOs need to lie?
August 17 at 2:54pm Mike:
you wouldn't know a real biz if it hit you in the face.... who r u fooling???
Joe says: Who are you? Some Amway dude?
August 17 at 2:58pm Mike:
8.2 bil this year WITHOUT you... will be over 9 bill when the #'s all shake out... all WITHOUT you... r u stupid... this is fact!!! oh you must have a job... mike
Joe says: Amway 9 billion, Walmart 401 billion. No comparison.
August 17 at 3:04pm Mike:
lets see ... yes walmart great co... what do they do... oh they distrib.... only prob. with walmart can't have a biz... 15,000 new ibo's per day... over 40 mil. hits on the web everyday... the ONLY debt FREE co on the web that doing over a bill in biz .... income i'm plat. yrly 35-40 k...
Joe says: Debt free? Good for Amway. You are not Amway.
August 17 at 3:27pm Mike:
first thing you can do is call corp... they will give you doc... have been debt free from day one when rich & jay started... i don't know where you went to school but you must have flunked math... your crazy to think over head is 3k per month... no one gets sucked in... they join on their own... how many people start college and never finish... oh lets see ... they quit... mmmmm spent $$$$ on tuition/ books/ room-board....
Joe says: So are you profitable? Mike responds with the broke loser statement but a month later, he’s back………..
September 14 at 4:45pm Mike:
hey Joe... mike here.... do you want me to sponsor you??? had 3 new people at a home meeting on thur. last week... 2 are in and 1 customer... things are going well... mike
Joe says: It’s great that you had people at your meeting. Having people at a meeting doesn’t make you any money does it?
September 15 at 11:51am Mike:
have ALWAY'S been profitable.... i make a profit in EVERY biz i have... have been since i was 22... mike
Joe says: Are you making a net profit? What level are you?
September 15 at 2:24pm Mike:
yeh.. hi Joe... gas, cd's, functions and other expense 300-400.00 monthly... biggest expense are function weekends... run bout 300.00 for ticket,room and food... made over 50k... high margin of profit... must hang in to build the biz right... mike
Joecool commentary: So this IBO admits his expenses run about $300 to $400 a month to “build the business right”. You will notice that a month ago he was a platinum making $35 to $40K. Now, a month later he says he is making $50K. Clearly he is lying, probably faking it but not making it. Why do so many IBOs need to lie?
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