Monday, August 17, 2009

Amway - Downline Exploitation?

Some big companies and some private entrepreneurs have been accused of being "sweat shop owners". This is when they exploit workers, often in foreign countries by having them work for a very small wage. For example, a foreign operation may have a warehouse full of women and children working all day under poor conditions for a few bucks a day. The owners of these operations can rake in the dough as they save a ton of money in labor costs.

Some uplines operate just like sweat shop owners, but in many cases, they are worse then sweat shop owners because even exploited workers earn something. At the end of the month, they have a net gain, even if it might be small. In the case of many Amway IBOs, they spend money on Amway products, and uplines take the lion's share of the rebate/bonus that is generated by those sales, and then in turn, these same uplines try to get many of their downline to also become customers of their system of cds, books, voicemail and seminars or functions. In many, probably most cases, uplines will make just as much if not more income from the system, than from Amway.

These same upline will also teach firece loyalty to the system. Never miss a function. Make sacrifices to buy more books or cds, and make sure you are always looking for people to sponsor to add to the system. Joining the system almost guarantees that you will suffer a net loss in the Amway business. It is why I continue to write about what IBOs and prospects should look for when they are being recruited or indoctrinated into these systems. It is why there are so many defenders of Amway, most of whom are losing money, but think they are still successful because it is what upline teaches.

I know most IBOs won't believe this, but I will say it anyway. IBOs on the system are probably worse off than sweat shop employees because they are paying their upline to do their work. At least sweat shop employees get a salary. Upline will teach you that it is an honor to drive them around, or to do tasks for them. Many platinums works are free doormen and ushers at meetings and functions. Upline benefits by maximizing profits from functions. It is pure downline exploitation and I hope eventually that more and more IBOs will recognize this.

18 comments:

mrmaximum said...

Precisely, which is why I state that it matters nothing that Amway itself makes money. The issue at hand is whether or not a prospect can become successful. If there is so much failure present, if only 1%, or less than 1% actually reach levels of note, then there is something dreadfully wrong with the system which must be rectified in order to really share space with the really large conglomerates that Awmay claims to be similar too.

Until this system has been fixed, then it simply doesn't give a satisfactory ROI for the time, and money invested.

Anonymous said...

So you openly admit that 1% make it. Then why in God's name don't you put your name in the 1%? Because it's easier to join the 99%. As a comparison when it comes to sinning The Bible says that wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and that narrow is the gate that leads to life. So if 1% make it, choose the narrow gate.

Joecool said...

Not 1% make it. A fraction of 1%. And you cannot choose to be that 1% like it's that simple. Yes, the gate to heaven is narrow. The atheists and other wayward people don't make it. Your only gate to salvation is through Jesus. The Bible says so. This has nothing to do with Amway.

mrmaximum said...

"So you openly admit that 1% make it. Then why in God's name don't you put your name in the 1%? Because it's easier to join the 99%. As a comparison when it comes to sinning The Bible says that wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and that narrow is the gate that leads to life. So if 1% make it, choose the narrow gate."

Oh for crying out loud, did you even read what you wrote? Now you have to bring the bible into it to make being part of 1% seem like an amazing occurance? Grasping at straws here are we? Where does anything with a 1% success rate ever rank as 'proven'? That is only for Platinums btw, diamonds are much less.

If only 1% make it, then working at McDonalds is a better business choice, as Joe has mentioned in the past.

mrmaximum said...

"So you openly admit that 1% make it. Then why in God's name don't you put your name in the 1%?"

And what, pray tell, is so amazing about the 1%? I've been in the business before, my dear man, and after the rose coloured glasses come off, it isn't all that it's cracked up to be. The Diamonds aren't as honest as they say they are, they do not make the money they say they do, and in fact, IBO's don't acheieve the income which they are promised and only 1% achieves this lofty position?

Take another read at that, now you know your answer as to why there is so much negative about the business. Amway is a gamble at best, and a bad one at that.

Period.

mrmaximum said...

"Your only gate to salvation is through Jesus. The Bible says so. This has nothing to do with Amway."

Exactly Joe, and if you choose Jesus to be your saviour, then you ARE saved. Not only 1% or less than 1% are saved. Bad example Anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Not 1%, a fraction of 1%... wow Joe you made it even more clear that I was wrong when I said that you belong to the 99%, you actually belong to something like 99.9% of the people who don't make it because... because. There's always a 'because' and yours is 'because you cannot choose to be that 1% like it's that simple' because in that case you reverse to the 99%, there's no third choice. Get a life buddy!
As for the Bible's message of salvation, I know about it and I have already accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour. Now that I said it openly DON'T DARE to come up to me and provoke me into saying that you can't have Jesus Christ if you're into Amway. I can sense you being versed on saying that bull line. And you're not the only one with that hypocritical attitude.
mrmaximum, what promises are you talking about? No one has ever promised me anything. All I was told is the business plan and the mentoring to make it. That's it! You're just another deluded individual who brags about being saved in Jesus Christ's name and yet comes up with the same negative, hypocritical attitude.

Gina said...

Hmmmm....I wonder what Jesus thinks about the Bible being used in this manner to respond to questions raised on Amway????

And how does anyone with coherent thought, think that the Bible relates in any way to being successful with Amway?

Anonymous said...

So Anon #1, you are telling us one just "chooses" their success?? They're still spitting out that tired old cop out line at functions?

Jeez....you think the Diamonds would have enough $$ to hire some writers....

If choosing was all that was needed - I'd be looking fondly back on a 20+ years hall-of-fame NHL career.

But in the real world - despite choosing to work harder and wanting it more than most other players, I just didn't possess the athletic talent level needed to play at that level.

Sorry to blow apart your cutesy throwaway cop out line.

Joecool said...

So anoymous from Canada, you really think that a a few people out of a 1000 is a good success rate? What school did you flunk math at?

And you are taking things out of context. I never said that you cannot have Amway and accept Jesus. But the Bible says you cannot serve two masters. Many Amwayers are following a false idol called money. And what exactly do you think up uplines who preach bullshit about Amway being a God peasing business?

mrmaximum said...

"mrmaximum, what promises are you talking about? No one has ever promised me anything. All I was told is the business plan and the mentoring to make it. That's it! You're just another deluded individual who brags about being saved in Jesus Christ's name and yet comes up with the same negative, hypocritical attitude."

Who said I was saved? I have read the bible my deluded IBO, and I know of which the others speak. Do not try to give me the crap that the 1% choose themselves, once again, you are making the arguement of Amway being crap for us. I've said it, Joe said it, heck, in a round about way the world is saying it with it's negative attitude and constant panning of the business. a 1% success rate isn't acceptable, period. No matter how you want to word it, no matter how you want to slice it and try and pretty it up, it still means that 99% fail.

You also know as well as I do that more than 1% do the work. So there you have it, you enroll in the amway business, you are taking a gamble that you will be in the 1% who makes it to platinum and hopefully less than that who make it to diamond and then pray that your fiances, marriage, and family hold up long enough for the trip there.

That is the reality, no matter how you want to spin it. North America is getting wise to this approach as well, which is why with each passing year, growing the business is getting harder and harder to do.

For Goodness sake I thought you where an IBO!!! Promises, here it is. "You want it make it in this business show the plan 5 times per week and you will be a Diamond." Does that sound familiar??? Are you going to tell me that you never heard that?

Joe on his previous Blog had mentioned that he came across a new IBO, he stated all the things needed to become successful, his last line; Success...GUARANTEED.

This is what IBO's are told, would you like it better if I said guarantee instead of promise? Okay then, all these guarantees and the business falls on it's face. I'm calling you on all the promises that the business makes but doesn't deliver and if you are going to tell me that it does work, and it IS proven, then you will have to tell me why these lofty GUARANTEES are met so haphazardly.

I call things how I see them, and I have seen nothing which proves Amway is anything more than a great way to lose money. I'm sorry for you thinking so negatively of me, don't worry, just pop in another tape and things will be fine until it's over. If I'm negative because I'm speaking the truth which you do not want to face, that says more about you than it does about me.

May I suggest USA22? However, I do know when Pigs stink, that's why I quit!!

Joecool said...

In what business or other venture is a less than 1% success rate acceptable? Yes, I know Amway pundits will claim that not everyone has a goal of diamond, and while that is true, I certainly don't hear of anyone being recruited to sell a few items here and there. And I believe, even considering that fact that some IBOs don't have lofty goals, the success rate is still 1% or less.

I know of no other business where a prospective business owner would think that a 1% success rate is even worth a glancing thought.

Anonymous said...

Joe, are you sure that gate you're headed for isn't the gate to a house of ill repute instead of the gate to salvation. As you well know, it can be easy to get the two mixed up. ;-)

Joecool said...

Anonymous, maybe you can actually bring up something of substance to debate instead of your bone headed drive by commentary for a change?

Anonymous said...

Sorry Joe, just trying to lighten things up a bit.

Anonymous said...

yeah, right.

Anonymous said...

i would think God would be to smart to be in Amway, or any other MLM

Anonymous said...

+1