Tuesday, January 26, 2010

Amway - You Can't Decide to Go Diamond?

One of the things I see around some forums, and what I remember from my Amway days is hearing about how someone "made the decision" to go diamond. You cannot "decide" to go diamond anymore than you can decide to win the lottery. You can decide to work hard and you can decide to try and follow all of the recommended advice for achieving in Amway, but you cannot "decide" to go diamond. Going diamond requires you to have certain group structures, which requries sponsoring. Sponsoring others is something that is not directly within your control. Maintaining retention in your group is also something you may not have direct control over.

One familiar theme I recall hearing on WWDB rally tapes is that someone, usually the man of the house, finally made a decision to go diamond. I don't recall a detailed explanation of what that meant. When I was prospected into Amway, my sponsor never could tell me in a straight answer what you actually do as an IBO. All he kept assuring me of was that I could be taught everything I needed to know. Looking back, he was right. In a nutshell, the Amway business is simply this: Buy, sell, and sponsor. But of the three components, the only one an IBO can directly control is to "buy". To sell or to sponsor is something that you have no direct control over. Yes, some people can improve and get better at selling or prospecting, but I believe the vast majority of people, even those who work hard and give effort, simply do not have the skills to overcome the reputation and high prices that apparently stigmatize the Amway business.

As I have stated, you can decide to try Amway. You can decide to buy tools and products, you can decide to work hard and give your best effort. You can decide that this is a good opportunity for you. But you cannot decide that you will go diamond. Many have tried, very few have made it. Even those who attain the apparent pinnacle of success, often find that maintaining the level is a near impossible task. Good luck to you if you "decide" to go for it.

41 comments:

Anon UK said...

I think when people talk about making the decision to go diamond, it is more of an indication of their willing to do whatever it takes to go diamond. (Be teachable, do as upline does, lose a shed load of money e.t.c.)

As you say there are many variables that you have little or no control over (even less control if you have submitted to upline) that are obstacles in your path.

Anonymous said...

I love it. You talk with such authority about things you don't understand.

Anonymous said...

Deciding to Go Diamond actually means, that you have decided to milk PV out of 2-3 of your legs. Usually the new diamonds have 2-4 strong legs which qualify as Q12 every year at the minimum. The rest of the 2 legs would have stocked up products so that the upline can go diamond. During my upline's emerald (Ramesh Raghavan-part of Sugeet Ajmani) qualification, we stocked up 1500-2500PV worth of products for abt 3-4 months and in one month bought 6500PV and qualified as new silver. My upline emerald in his cd talks passionately about his journey to Emerald and how they decided to make a move to Emerald- they dont talk abt actually deciding to milk PV out of their downline.

Anonymous said...

"Ananymous" - I was part of the Gala group to which Sugeet Ajmani and this other guy Ramesh Raghavan belong. "Milking" is the right term. They milked 1000 PV to 1500 PV from me every month when my upline went platinum!

Anonymous said...

and the funny thing is, none of you have done a single bloody thing. blah blah blah gusti!

Anonymous said...

hei "Anonymous" - me "Anonymous2"... i know 1 bww diamond prakash and smita hegde, (in LA) part of shivram and anjali kumar team. the fellow did not have any q12 legs in the U.S. but somehow "milked" all of his legs and somehow qualified diamond. it may take him another 10 yrs to requalify diamond, but he gotta the pin now.

Anonymous said...

hey guys i was a part of Prakash & Smita in LA for 6 years, my estimate of the amount of money me and my wife have wasted going to functions, seminars, buying cd's, air tickets etc is more than $75,000. People might not believe but I swear on my family this is the truth. Prakash and Smita have only 5 platinum legs and 1 leg in India has been given to them by their upline Ramesh and Rama.
Leg 1 Vinay & Mamata (Platinum)
Leg 2 Praveen & Pinky (Platinum)
Leg 3 Kishore & Rajshri (Platinum)
Leg 4 Rajeev & Deepti (Squeezed the PV of them)
Leg 5 India leg don't remember the name
Leg 6 India leg have no clue how are they in their group.
So this couple does not have even 1 Q12 in their group. All his group and people are getting milked/squeezed.???????????
God Bless all you guys who are in this group.

Anonymous said...

They decided to go founders Emerald this year, that is 75K bonus.
He Chose 3 of his platinum's. They talk on stage that only with min 25-30 SOT you can start Silvership. If you make a decision to go Silver/platinum, they don't allow you until you have 25-30 SOT. This criteria is not applicable for qualifying Q12 legs. They milk and make it happen so that they get the 75K founders emerald bonus.
When they decided to go diamond it was emotional dream, facts don't count.( not even 6 legs) If you make decision to go Silver all the facts count, how many people in your team, your SOT etc,etc.
Everything depends on the goal they decide, rest all need to obey that or he will kill you emotionally.
You cant make money by sponsoring more people, you need to obey him and do tap rooting or else he will ditch you. Not my words, he claimed on stage. Amway policy never said that.
He is good in dumping garbage on his team, main passion ( all night owls) is to talk abt the mistakes made by other people in his different team or just get things out of his system and put dirt on others and blame them in the name of self image.

Anonymous said...

Amway leaders are so deceiving and arrogant by bullshitting all sorts of lies. They are so self centered and manipulate people with continuous brain washing garbage to their downlines. All the top earners of Amway are making a majority of their income from Britt World Wide (BWW) system that includes books, CDs, meetings, business seminars and major functions. The best part is that there are 4 major functions in a year and each event ticket costing over $100 which does not include hotel, food, fuel etc.

1. Winter conference (January)
2. Spring conference (April)
3. Summer conference (July)
4. FED (October)

Joecool said...

The standing orders and other local functions also add to some cash after a while. They eat away at your resources one cd and one function at a time. They keep you going by saying the next function or cd might contain the one thing you need to hear to turn the corner and "explode" your business.

annoynumus said...

This is not true. How much they can make from system income. Yes there is a system income which is available to platinum's and up.
Amway at his pure form is one of the best business in the world. But when the so called leaders manipulate the people to achieve their goals of making money is making this business bad. Amway has lot of money paid out in each level and it's true

Joecool said...

Amway's a great business if you own Amway. It's not so great for the IBO's. Unfortunately, some bad leaders to manipulate and rip off their downline.

Anonymous said...

Amway is great business and BWW is the best system. People can make money and lot of people are making money also. Seminars and all are very good for your personnel growth which is very important. The bad part is some leaders who are very selfish and control their team to achieve their goals. Talk something on the stage and act exactly opposite. The above mentioned LA leader Hegde is one among them, and his team is not really prospering. Most of them are like slaves to a commander.
Mot of the people in his team are happy when he is not around

Joecool said...

So if leaders are selfish, their downline suffer and lose money. Isn't that a reason that Amway and BWW sucks?

Anonymous said...

It's not all the Leaders are same, so dont blame Amway and BWW. In all profession we see rotten eggs, that doesn't mean that profession is bad. In true sense Amway is the best business in the world and Bill Britt teaching is the best and it can change some one life in a positive way. Please remember that people can also change and they may become the best leader and flourish their team.

Anonymous said...

still don't get it, do you? typical ambot.

Anonymous said...

You are true. Amway and BWW by far is the best business. because its peoples biz its very difficult to build but rewarding business.

About hegde group: Some of these senior people are very rude, i dont know from where they got training or attitude. but lots of uplines in this group chase pvs, they treat their downlines as their employees.

Cathy Liu said...

I feel sorry for you that you were in the amway business for 6 years and did not succeed. If you continue to blame others for your lack of success and for your own failures, then you will never succeed in anything. It's so true - losers are whiners.

Joecool said...

Cathy, what have you achieved in Amway? Anything of significance? If not then most likely you are just a "pre" loser yourself.

Anonymous said...

@cathy: I was part of this Hegde team. They just lie on your face. Cathy, just wait till you start building multiple strong legs and then you will start feeling the heat. Also, try and ask your upline about their expenses vs income and see their faces.

Or calculate your expenses vs income. Don't forget to compare your expenses before amway and after amway as well. Also, don't forget to add those meeting and conference fees with all hotel plus travel plus food spending some.

And try to remember if they ever told you about all these expenses before you joined? Or they talked about just registration.

This Hegde team is targeting students for a reason. More spending with less thought process involved, more enthusiasm and believe in people fast.

They are even trying to take F1 visa holders without verifying whether it's even legal without proper documents. This might ruin someone's carrier if govt takes action.

Honesty is important when it comes to teamwork. And even though Amway might be a good business model, it hardly works due to scammers involved.

Unknown said...

I was a part of their team 4 years ago and I walked out losing a lot of money and time. The main lie thrown in my face was that this was something I could do while keeping my studies a priority at USC. The amount of time it really takes to make money in this organization makes it so that you literally have to eat and breathe Amway to get anywhere. Even the, its really hard to make it.

Anonymous said...

Amway does demand total, complete, and all-consuming commitment. Only live-wire, Energizer-Bunny types actually make significant money in Amway, and they do it at the expense of every other aspect of human life. Family, friends, education, private interests -- all of these things have to play second fiddle to their Amway religion.

That would be OK if it were their informed choice. But it isn't. They are lied to by those who introduce them to the Amway "Plan." They are told by recruiters that Amway can be handled as a part-time job, and that only a few hours a week will be required of them. This a bald-faced LIE. Anyone who devotes just a few hours a week to Amway will eventually be bled dry by up-line.

Amway is a "bait-and-switch" scheme. You are told one thing to entice you into joining. And once you have joined, you quickly find out that the demands on your time, resources, and money are astronomical.

Amway is a totally corrupt racket, where up-line leeches off a struggling down-line.

Lorikeets said...

To Brian, you should be proud of extricating yourself and overcoming all the manipulation, pressures and tactics. I'm sure it wasn't made easy for you.

Anonymous said...

Cathy, Its 4 years now, can u agree now u r a pre loser, what did u achieve so far $100 per month, it sucks buddy.
Diamond sucker sucks ur money and life and ur weekends.
If you quit at least You have ur weekend and life back.
I am happy I am out of this blood POV sucking group. Weekends are good with my friends and family, achieving small goal which I set, not Some one else forcing the goal.
20 yrs of denial for what, think buddy

Anonymous said...

After four years, Cathy Liu is probably broke, or peddling her ass under a lamppost.

Anonymous said...

Happen to see this post. Want to share my f*k experience with this group.
They impressed me with lot of stuff and I decided to give it a shot. I know Amway is good business model and studied the credibility of BWW which is not bad.
Before I commit I want to evaluate the team/leader, was with them for 5-6 months and I decide to QUIT this rotten group. The growth of the team always depends on the leader, and the quality of this leader is pathetic. Below are the reasons and no one can deny it because Truth will set you free.
1) Diamond Hegde is in business for 25+ yrs ( His story says he joined as single and heard his son graduated)and very handful of people in his team ( less than 5) makes $1000/ month consistently. No fruit on the tree as a leader
2) They lie on your face. Heard from stage that some one who never worked in their life claiming they are retired and all BS abt the job.
3) This guy is not qualified as diamond for last 8-10 yrs and brag about his diamond.
4) Very selfish nature. People in his team behave like slaves, few of the assholes in his team brag about how good is his fart. Really slave mentality. So sad.
I learned from other IBO's he set the goal for others to meet his selfish goal.

I choose to be anonymous to avoid more confrontation and chances of them dragging me for another conference.
Thank GOD I am out of them. I am sure I will find a fun loving sincere honest leader to follow.

Truth Seeker said...

I wonder Hegde has different surname in facebook, who is this Govind ? Why fake identity.
One of the presentation I attended hegde claimed to be AUTHENTIC, TRANSPARENT, HONEST, but he hide his identity in face book. Ass hole. he talk trash about job, I came to know he worked more than 25 years in a job and he hate the job to the core. Did he live his 25 years in hatred ? It shows in his attitude. Stupid.

Anonymous said...

You are right, he is still waiting to re qualify after 10 years.
Selling buzz word likes Mentorship and finance freedom to his team. He is good in giving fake hope and squeezing PV. Handful of people makes money in his team after being in his team for more than 15 yrs

Kulkarni said...

I was part of his India team, he cheated me for some time.
he came india lot of times and motivated us and made us to do PV, after he met his goal, he ditched us. no more India trip, no call, nothing.
He used us to acheive some of his personnel goal, I feel stupid now to believed him.
you can check with anyone in his India team to check I am telling the fact.
Beware, he is selfish and crooked.

Anonymous said...

I recently met one of Prakash’s down line (also a Prakash with a different last name) prospecting in a Mall. This was 10 years after we quit. Wow mall crawling forever. This downline’s kids must be in Middle school now. I think better to be at home, watch some Netflix show than mall crawl and dump your money into this shitty business

Anonymous said...

I am very glad that people outside of North America are starting to see what a fraudulent rip-off and corrupt racket the entire Amway operation is. It doesn't matter what subsystem you are in (BWW, WWDB, Network 21, LTD). They are ALL nothing but scams to bleed down-line of money!

Anonymous said...

Prakash Hegde is the biggest asshole and douche bag, I have seen so far!!. It was nightmare being part of his team. He is extremely arrogant, rude, condescending in his behavior. He doesnt know how to treat people right.He is that dictator who under the name of mentership interferes in people's life, expects thaht they dont have a social life and just focus on building business going mall to mall for his beneift. He wants every one to be a yes man to him! He should be called a tormentor and not a mentor who plays with people's life. He goes to his team members social media profiles and critices them for picture s that he "feels" are inappropriate. He will pester you until you take them off!! He changed his last name to Govind on facebook to hide his identity. He is anti LGBTQ, makes racist comments. The person who sponsored me Jay Mita, not sure if I am saying his name right, was made fun of because Jay himself was and had other people part of the LGBTQ community part of his team!

If you face any problems on your personal front, he will just say use right words and claims that you have the problem because you spoke it in your life!! what an idiot! never make an effort to help person. When I was part of the team, I saw him give exampls of people who had quit and calling them losers from the stage. I am sure he did that to satisfy his ego. I guess he needs to see a mirror who the biggest loser and jerk is!!!

Anonymous said...

Prakash Hegde and Akash Haswani are two of the biggest scum to have ever been on Earth. Backstabbing sons of bitches. They will lie, cheat, do whatever it takes to bring people to the business and make you stay, even if it means losing your job, passing on promotions, passing on better opportunities, etc. It's one big cult where they brainwash you into believing you too can become very rich if you just follow their ways, which is a load of bullshit as it's mathematically impossible (John Oliver did a great segment on why / about MLMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI)

Both of them are scrubs at their jobs and because they have not seen much success in their corporate life they try to prevent others from getting any kind of success there, brainwashing folks into believing that Amway is the end all be all. For example, for Akash Haswani go to this link, enter his name, select "ALL" as the location, and go through the years. https://ucannualwage.ucop.edu/wage/

I know friends that have lost thousands of dollars and wasted so much time and energy by following these goons and pathetic excuses for human beings. These clowns continue their charade, profiting off of unknowing, innocent, desperate folks and taking advantage of them every which way possible. Amway, BWW, worldwide/corporation, whatever the hell it is, it's all one big ponzi scheme. It's all a scam. It's a house of cards - stacked on lies and manipulation. And it will all come crashing down one day. And Prakash Hegde (or Govind) and Akash Haswani will have to suffer for their sins/atone for karma.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what a goldmine. A former IBO wanted me to add a comment here and I am more than happy to. I was an IBO for a year (thank God not more), and my experience with Amway taught me just how much of an asshole humans can be.

Let me start by saying Fuck Prakash Hegde (aka Prakash Govind LOL) and fuck Akash Haswani Shivam Gupta is another clown but I'll save the comments about that oompa loompa for another time.

If you're thinking about joining, let me tell you that it's a huge waste of time. When I was around, there were people doing this for 3+ years and were at the same level, if not just a few levels above me. It's not because they didn't work hard, it's because it's almost impossible to make it in that kind of slimy business these days.

Some people have put 25+ hours/week for 3+ years, and have almost nothing. They're trained to say, "Yes Prakash" like puppets. You're better off picking up a new skill or starting something of your own that isn't a MLM.

Now, onto Prakash and Akash, two of the most disgusting fucks I have come across. Prakash is a grade A asshole who only knows to talk down to others. I've seen him ask his wife, Smita, to "shush" on many occasions. If the rat-faced piece of shit can't even respect his own wife, do you think he respects his own team? Of course not. He'll respect them enough so they contribute PV.

The funny thing about these meetings is that they're way too friggin long. They say shit like "the gems of these meetings can be heard late at night" meaning you're a cuck if you leave early. Gems? Bull-fucking-shit. More like Prakash being a dumbass go on about random shit.

"Don't miss Prakash talk about strategy to grow your business!" - LMAO. Let me tell you how to grow this shit. Get people to join under you who will do sales and also get people to join under them. Simple. There's no other way around it. Not everyone under you will make it and some will waste their lives away. Would you be proud of building something at the cost of ruining someone else's life and wasting their time?

I've heard these little shits tell their "downlines" what they can/can't post on social media and how they should spend their time just so they can recruit more people. Do you think they actually care about you? Of course not. It's all about how they can suck as much time out of you to grow your business because it helps them.

How about Akash? Akash is Prakash's little bitch. He'll do whatever Daddy Prakash wants him to do. If Prakash asked Akash to lick his shoes, he'd probably do it, especially if guaranteed "mentorship". That man has a master's degree from USC, has been working for 12 fucking years and makes $70k. Yes, you read that right and because he works for UCLA his salary is public - look it up. I know fresh-out-of-college undergrads who make more money than that.

They'll like you if you are growing and shit on you otherwise (even more after you leave). They shit on jobs so much but you know what? I'm pretty happy with my job and am saving enough to live off of a passive income stream through other means and that makes me perfectly happy because at least I'm not living off the misery of others.

The dumbest thing I heard Akash say was when we were all huddled up, and he goes, "If you were given the choice to take a $700k/year paying job or to stay in the business, you should stay in the business. Does anyone think they should take the job?" No one raised their hands of course, probably because they feared Akash going ballistic on them.

Let me tell you right now, I would have said "Peace!" and taken the job. $700k a year? You have to be stupid to not take that kind of job. I'd take it and say, "Fuck off Akash, I make 10x your salary". I'll post about Shivam the oompa loompa another time. Stay out of this business and wary of these goons.

Anonymous said...

Ex-IBO here who was part of Shivam Gupta's team:

@Cathy Liu how's the business going? It's been 7+ years and you're still an eagle, if that.

Time to wake up to reality and realize that your uplines are just manipulating you. Hang onto your job at Robinhood, that'll do you way better.

Anonymous said...

I was part of this team for some time and had a similar experience being part of their team. These clowns and jerks especially Hedge, Aksah Haswani and Shivam Gupta are the biggest scum bags on the face of this earth. They will suck every ounce of happiness from your life, rip you off of your finances, put you in debt and once they are done milking you for their personal gains they will kick you off to the curb. They will then brand you as a loser for not being able to perform and make you feel miserable by insulting you, calling you names and leave to fend for your problems that they created in your life. Stay as far as you can from these morons! If they approach you, run as fast as you can!!!

Anonymous said...

I want to hear about the Oompa Loompa. Reached out to me on LinkedIn

Anonymous said...

I could say so much. I was part of this team as well. Amway taught me one good thing which was personal development and power of spoken word. But there is a way to deliver that message and all.

But this team was a bunch of crap. Stuff I hated about Amway was they encourage to net work but always were breathing down your neck if you even talked to a cross line. Like what the F. I can not make friends outside of my group?

They always claimed that oh the books are good for your PD and always buy whole sale. Okay taking that into mind why am I paying full price for a self help book for $15 when can I get the same book on Amazon for $5. But my upline Vinay and Saeed never answered that. Saeed is still going Q12 or platnium after 25+ years in the business.

They are multiple other business that can make you successful , but the "leaders" in Amway think that Amway is the only way to become successful.

Amanda Fernandez Gupta is also an IBO under Vinay's team. Thatis their separare leg and let me tell you she is still going Platnium or stuff after 15 plus years.

COmpound effect takes huge growth and being stuck in a business for 10 plus years not moving takes a toll on the mindset.

I used the stuff learned in Amway which was PD on your self and have found success in my own areas of life rather than following Amway.

Amway leaders make $100-150k or 250k sound so much money and that it is the ONLY company the in the world where you can make it.

WAKE UP. People can make that from Youtube, from other ventures if you put your mind into it. AMWAY is not the only way to become successful like the HEDGE team claims.

They are so heavy in on PV that they do not know how to retain the employees.

THe stuff is so overly prices that is a night mare to buy.

THe company had a great business model when no was in the market but if you look at the sales they have gone down over last 10 years by 3-4 billion dollars. Thats quite a bit.

They constantly say " build a business without disturbing what you are doing" . However, no business is built to a level without you disturbing what you are doing. YOu have to get unbalanced, you have to give it your 100% and that is wrong marketing. I hate lies like that.

My uplines breathed down my neck if I talked to cross lines, like stop breathing down my neck.

It is so f***ing stupid.

Prakash and Smitha, Vinay and Mammta have beenin this business for so long that they are still not financially free. I know people in many different industries that became successful in 2-3 years.

One of their biggesst LIES this event only comes once a year so you are joining just in the right time. Like bull shit, it happens every 3 months. I hated that lie.

They are so many hidden costs that they will not tell you about.

I hated it for the reason they LIED LIED LIED. Prakash now that I come to think of it was so RUDE and Vinay. Saeed is still going platnium, his son Z is sadly stuck in this business unfortunately wheter he likes it or not.

So many family members are stuck.

Anonymous said...

The Amway acronym:

Arrogance - in the way IBOs are lectured to.
Manipulation - in the way IBOs are cheated and lied to.
Whining - in the way that up-line constantly criticizes you.
Abuse - in the way that up-line insults and demeans you.
Yelling - in the way that idiots scream at those stupid yearly functions.

Anonymous said...

Gala diamonds lie and lie and lie. Almost all the diamonds are back at work or have always had something on the side that they don’t talk about from the stage. Ajay Ohri is in life sciences and does marketing/business development, Shauna Sahay while bashing jobs from up the stage did her MBA quietly and has been working for the last 10 years in finance on and on and on. Even if you made some YouTube videos in your spare time, you will make money than being an IBO.

Anonymous said...

Yup, a lot of them are back at work except the legacy diamonds. The only folks keeping the money are DeVos and Van Andel and channeling it to the Republican war chest. It’s a disgrace.