Monday, January 12, 2015

Join Amway And "Win"?

One of the things that my upline taught, and I believe is still taught today in various groups is that winners join Amway and losers do not. Kind of makes me wonder about the "most" who "do nothing" after joining. What is also odd is that many IBOs seem to think that making $5000 a month or so is a big deal but many people earn that and more in a job. Even a 100K income isn't that much when you get no medical benefits or other fringes from Amway. After taxes and business expenses, even 100K isn't that much if you are thinking of "walking away" to collect residual income in the future.

I also heard that you're a winner because you were doing something to better your financial future and those who didn't were losers. or broke minded. Of course the upline who said this had no knowledge about those who were not in Amway. Some of them may already have been financially sound or may have been doing something to better their financial future. I'm not sure why these uplines, who promote "positive", had to resort to calling people losers simpy because they did not agree that Amway was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In many games or sporting events, there will be someone or a team that wins the game and someone or a team that loses the game. Losing a game doesn't make you a loser and certainly, a team that wins the game would not say the losing team were losers. Can you imagine a pro football team's coach taking the podium after a game and saying his team won because the other team was a bunch or broke minded gutless losers? That would never happen, yet we see that frequently in the Amway world. The owner of Amway, Rich DeVos had once said in a recorded message that just because people do not agree with you (paraphrased) about Amway, does not make them losers and that IBOs should not call people losers.

In all of this, people's jobs are also criticized. That a job stands for "just over broke" or "jackass of the boss" and other blurbs. Many IBO's goals and dreams consist of ditching their job so they can sleep all day and live a life of luxury. Ironically, it is most IBO's jobs that continue to produce income so they can pay their bills and feed their family. It is also an IBO's job that funds their Amway and AMO expenses such as product purchases and functions and voicemail, etc. Without having a job, most people could not even join Amway or pay for any tools. Sadly, most IBOs won't make any money in Amway either, and will have to continue to work at their jobs. I do not believe that someone earning an honest living working a job is a loser. Ironically, the folks calling people losers are often not even netting a profit from their Amway business!

Yes, in this business or the sports world, there will be winners and there will be losers. The question is whether you are the one who is allowed to be the judge of who is and who isn't. I would also suggest that IBOs are completely shutting down potential future business by their behavior. What if I went to a store to purchase something but the item was not available on that particular day, so I don't purchase anything and leave. As I leave, the store owner says I am a loser for not buying something there. Will I go back? Very unlikely. If an IBO truly sees themselves as a store owner, all prospects should be seen as potential business, whether future or present. If your upline tells you that people not interested are losers, you should kick him where the sun doesn't shine.

Only winners join Amway? Think again!


quixtarisacult said...

Awaken from the trance. Cults significantly detatch the adherent's from right thinking. Only truth has any hope of righting a psychological ship that develops in the Amway subculture.

Joecool, you are a beacon of light to the relatively small number deluded citizens that are in the end victimized. Sadly, most of these do not consider or realize the nature of their own present 'state'. It is the 'sheep' mentality which is preached to them as a 'virtue' and one they develop as if it were a religion or as they think a good thing. They have been lied to so often, they don't really know how to think anymore.

Totalitarians cults, (Quixtar & Others) are life sucking ventures. Their end is never good, irregardless of their nature, of the banner placed over each of their gates. Herbalife, Amway, Wake Up Now et cetera. (Have you noticed that cultism is on the rise worldwide?)

People are carried away in these supposed legal affairs to their own harm, not just financially, but psychologically.

Taking part in criminal activities on the order of the mafia, might be scoffed away, but in the end the same effect is achieved. Of course, the apologists, while knowing the truth, are significantly protecting and abetting the top racketteers mafia organization. The founders (just like the Capone's of the world) will never be brought before the bars of justice but will sleep in death first.

Surely, those knowing the bad truths about Amway in today's modern age cannot ignore the fact that they, the small fish in the organization are equally guilty of the kingpin's crime? This is the psychological damage to the cult adherent I spoke of above. Leaving the cult is fraught with fear.

Truth, is the only code that can default the Ambot computer.

Joecool, I admire you for postulating in simple terms that Ambot doubters might understand--your gentle reasoning. Sadly, in my opinion--that because of "blinders and isolation"--the most 'at risk' Ambots (all of them) are those most isolated from the real world and from life. They are under the spell of their cult, the kingpin leaders, the snake venom sellers.

Joecool said...

I was about to call it a career and stop blogging but I keep encountering people like IBOFB who finds a way to tick me off and keep me motivated to keep posting articles. I know my opinions and experiences can't help everyone but hopefully a handful of lives have been made better because of the information readily available for information seekers.

Some people contact me by email or through this blog for more information and I assist in anyway I can. At some point I hope others will pick up the battle with us but until then, I am still motivated enough to keep posting.

Thanks for the comments.

quixtarisacult said...

Saying IBOFB is like summoning a demon. You are messing with black magic.

Anonymous said...

I seen a recent list of a ibo after dream night. Unsure if she was told this is what winners do by leaders. Supposingly people in Amway shouldn't talk to anyone negative, control any angry thoughts,no Facebook,submit to mentorship, no tv,pay parents bills and the list goes on. Guess people who don't live by these values are loser? I have no plans to support my parents financially as they get older,I see nothing wrong with being a bit negative occasionally, being angry just makes me human,with Facebook I like to go on browding (least a hour a day),as for TV I like certain programs and saves me money staying home occasionally.

Joecool said...

Well, IBOFB is an atheist so very likely his eternal destination may include demons. LOL J/K

Joecool said...

This is why Amway sometimes gets the "cult" tag, because some groups try to control the minds of their downline. No negatives, don't hang out with family or friends unless they are positive about Amway. I was in a group like that but I saw through the teaching.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Joe! I am now going to quit amway/quixtar and invest in Advocare!

Anonymous said...

Its very funny how my comments needs approval, this is negative website.

Joecool said...

You know what's even funnier? The pro Amway sites that comments need approval, or don't allow comments at all. Moderation is needed to avoid being spam bombed, but I allow comments, even that are critical of my articles or even of my experiences. You don't see that on pro Amway sites.

Anonymous said...

Oh man, please don't stop. You are doing an amazing service! You helped me wake up to see my mistake which luckily was for less than a month.

Joecool said...

Glad to be of service to you. I wish you well.

Anonymous said...

Pro amway sites?

Joecool said...

Yes, there are some websites that promote Amway. is once of them.

Desperate Dude said...

Hi Joe,

Thank God I found this blog site!!!

My wife signed up for Amway late last year & then got the premium membership recently. She's now asked that I join her to become a little team/partnership so we can be millionaires & financially free!

My wife is usually really good at business planning & is normally a financially astute person, so I've usually trusted her judgment. When she was going to these meetings while I was on the road for work, I'd come home on weekends to find her pumped up & excited, so I decided to check it out with her by attending various meetings in people's houses & eventually @ hotel conferences, etc.

Now that I've attended a conference with Dean & Marcie Whalen, I'm getting worried. This was my first big meeting & I was blown away at the fanaticism in the crowd. I also was noticing that certain people in this 3-hour session were the ones that repeatedly did the cheering & shouting, like they were positioned in random parts of the crowd to do that. Staged & planned is what it seemed.

I then went to a meeting with my wife & her uplines & met Debbie Shores who gave us all the rules of how the man needs to be protected from women who dress provocatively & learn to head his household as the man. Also heard that if I join, I'm supposed to run everything by my upline before making any decisions. Everything from buying a car or going on a vacation or changing my appearance. That is never going to happen. Period.

I overheard a speaker named Fenton Eng talking to a group of what I assume we're uplines to new IBO's. He was telling them that recruiting Is easy & keeping recruits is even easier! That they as uplines must constantly tell their downlines that they are so proud of them, that they are doing a great job, that they are already on the road to financial freedom, that they are so amazing, that they need to listen to the audios & read the books to succeed, that they need to cut negative people out of their lives (and by negative, I get that he means family & friends who disagree with Amway).

Is there a printout or PDF available which lists the info needed to get a blinded, gullible spouse to see the light? I'd love to be directed to wherever that is so I can have a proper, detail-laden conversation full of facts & reasons why she needs to quit with me. I will also go through these blogs to find some info, but though if there was something I could that captured it altogether, that would be great. Thanks for a great blog & keep up the helpful message.

Let me know if I should email this to you for a reply or if it's better here for the masses to read. Thank you kindly.

Joecool said...

Hi dude, thanks for your comments. If you want more specific information, my email is available on the profile on this blog. Feel free to ask any questions. You and your wife are in WWDB, the same group I was in and it sounds like the same old shenanigans are going on despite their claims that things have changed and that WWDB has changed. If you need more info, you can find a wealth of information at this website: If you need very specific things, contact me and I'll do my best to help you. Good luck!

Anonymous said...

Hey Desperate Dude. Dont listen to Joe, he is a common civilian that doesnt believe not just amway but believes that no MLM works. Belief is what cures you, not mind, nor heart. People have gotten successful because they are not only loving people, but they put in belief. As such thing, not many people in earth cares about god or even believes in him. So why believe in the 1% with such little faith? Lets make a change for once, there are other ways to make income. And that is being a professional salesman, not any forceful annoying salesman. But a caring and loving one.. that's not you? Then dont join

Joecool said...

Nobody has ever shown evidence that MLM works. Sure you get a few rich guys but nobody explains why there are thousands of broke guys who are making the 1 guy rich (if there is such a thing).

Unknown said...

I am neither for or against MLM, but i mean one rich guy and a thousand broke guys sounds like Walmart, mcdonalds, the government, every big corporation out there with a CEO and thousands of employees working for minimum wage and getting no where in life.
Not to put down those people but i mean, why make it such a foucs to bash MLM when every company in America works the same way?

Unknown said...

I am neither for or against MLM, but i mean one rich guy and a thousand broke guys sounds like Walmart, mcdonalds, the government, every big corporation out there with a CEO and thousands of employees working for minimum wage and getting no where in life.
Not to put down those people but i mean, why make it such a foucs to bash MLM when every company in America works the same way?

Joecool said...

First of all, there's no bashing going on. Not sure why you think it was. Secondly, in Walmart or any of the other entities you mention, the employees still get a paycheck and have money to spend. That isn't true in Amway where the vast majority suffer financial losses.

Anonymous said...

Anything can be turned into "that's a cult!" mentality. Religion, politics, your favorite arts and music. I have never been encouraged to tell people they're losers for not earning this opportunity. I'm sorry you had that experience. I'm changing the future of my family, and desperate dude, if you can't see the endless possibilities this opportunity can bring, then I am also sorry. Nothing wrong with having a job. Not everyone dreams to work forever. If you do, then that's totally fine. However, I see your wife begs to differ. I have been truly inspired. It's upsetting people will be this skeptical, especially towards themselves. Learn to dream again and fulfill them!

Best of luck in any endeavors. :)

Joecool said...

No, Amway IBO's behave like a cult. Worship the diamonds and worship money. If you made some money, that's good for you, but others are losing money if you're making it. That the insidious part of Amway.

People doing nothing are better off than most Amway IBOs. That's a bonafide fact.

Anonymous said...

Joe, your logic is bizarre. People lose money everyday in small business, and I am guessing they started in the hopes of being successful. Not following any part of your commentary except that some people in any industry are normal and many more are weird... Some people make money in business, others lose a lot more any any Amway IBO ever could... Newsflash. Wake up people, use your head and understand that risk is inherent, people should evaluate any opportunity with a clear mind, don't judge people who are excited about something, assess them based on your personal 'actual' knowledge of them. Wow joe... I have no words for the amazing lack of critical thinking, generalization, etc... You allow to flow through your words, and the edification you give to those who share your opinions. It's your right of course thanks to social media, I would just hope you and others would use less of the same dodgy logic used in Mein Kempf... Haha.

Joecool said...

Anonymous, my opinions have facts to back them up. Amway is promoted as "low risk" or "no risk", but that's not true. A lot of time and money can be lost trying to build an Amway business.

Yes, people is other businesses lose money too, but not at the rate of Amway IBOs. Did you ever look at Amway's disclosures? .26 (about 1/4 of 1%) reach the gold level. About 1 in 400 reach the level in Away where you earn (gross) about the equivalent of a full time job at minimum wage.

And the gold level doesn't even ensure a profit. If you are sold out on tools and training, you probably operate at a loss. And that's for the top fraction of 1% of all IBOs.

Who would sign up for Amway if it was clearly disclosed that you have about a 1 in 400 chance of earning full time minimum wage? Instead you are shown jet skis, sports cars and mansions and told that everyone can earn these benefits, which is a lie.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 12:16 PM --

The one using bizarre and off-the-wall logic is YOU.

Persons who try to recruit you into Amway always tell you that the thing is foolproof, as long as you "duplicate" up-line exactly. And yet thousands of IBOs have lost their shirts in the business even though they followed all the rules, bought all the tools, attended all the meetings and functions, and showed "The Plan" regularly.

FACT # 1 - Close to 99% of persons who join Amway fail to make a profit. Since Amway admits this in its printed literature, I suppose you won't try to deny it.

FACT # 2 - The cost of "Tools" and functions is exorbitant, and will eat up whatever small profit made by an energetic IBO.

FACT # 3 - Amway refuses to deal with or correct corruption and malfeasance in its various AMO subsystems, thus basically leaving IBOs without recourse when they are abused or mistreated.

FACT # 4 - Blogs like this one (and there are PLENTY of anti-Amway websites, pal) perform a valuable public service by warning persons not to join MLM rackets like Amway and others patterned after it.

You're the one who needs a refresher course in critical thinking. I just hope you don't trust your greedy Amway up-line to give it to you. By the way, how much have you lost in Amway so far? Give us an actual figure.

Anonymous said...

It has been interesting to read some of the comments about Amway. To me that individuals can be upset with a company that produces and distributes products. I once had an unpleasant experience at 7-11 damn you Coca-Cola...damn you and all of your cult members!

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous at 11:30 PM --

Amway doesn't "produce and distribute products." That's just a cover. The actual business of Amway is ripping people off with an unworkable business plan and the forced purchase of useless tools.

Your local 7-11 doesn't do that.

Anonymous said...

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Yes, many people who join Amway fail, and quit. Why? Because when they realize the hard work they are going to have to do, how FAR away from their comfort zone they are going to have to go, and how LONG it takes to create a profitable system - they decide this isn't for them and blame the company. This is absolutely hilarious. Instead of them realizing that their OWN quitting attitude is the problem, they blame everything else: amway, the successful people, the sponsors etc.
Who wants to work 40 hours a week to make money when you can create income through this business that doesn't tie you down and have another free 40 hours a week to spend more family time, travel, learn a new language, donate to charity, help the poor the list goes ON? This business may not give benefits but lets be honest if you're at a job making $100,000 a year that's all you will make year after year. In this business starting off may be $50 a month, then after the hard work it will increase to $500 a month, keep it going up too $5,000 then $500,000 it ALWAYS KEEPS GROWING and it just makes sense. So if you decided to quit blame yourself not Amway.. after 60 years its because they're doing something right.

Anonymous said...

Also, all you """smart people""" are here taking advice from all these other broke people. Try listening to someone who is where you want to be financially. Dean and Marcie Whalen are making millions because they followed people who were successful. Be smart people.

Joecool said...

Anonymous, you wrote some really stupid and redundat comments. The business is not always growng because people quit faster than you can sponsor them. And "smart people" are finding facts and my shared experiences. Why would you assume that I or others who leave comments are "broke"? And I seriously doubt that the Whalens have made "millions". You mistakenly assume they make a lot of money as "diamonds" but you don't know what business expenses they have and you don't even know if they are currently qualified diamonds. They might be making 60K for all you know.

In fact I'll bet you have a net loss from Amway, seeing as how you defend the business so fiercely, as many newbies do.

Anonymous said...

Anon of 8:06pm said: "In this business starting off may be $50 a month, then after the hard work it will increase to $500 a month, keep it going up too $5,000 then $500,000 it ALWAYS KEEPS GROWING and it just makes sense."

A simple question if you may: Are you earning more than $5,000 a month?

John Doe said...

Anonymous at 8:06 and 8:09 said,

"This is the stupidest thing I have ever read."

I'm going to say this is actually one of the smartest articles you have ever read, and anything you read by Kiyosaki or the other shills for MLM are actually the stupidest things you have read. Just because you don't realize the value of this article doesn't make it stupid.

Anonymous said,

"Yes, many people who join Amway fail, and quit. Why? Because when they realize the hard work they are going to have to do, how FAR away from their comfort zone they are going to have to go, and how LONG it takes to create a profitable system - they decide this isn't for them and blame the company."

What is this "work" you are actually doing anonymous? Are you actually selling any XS, Double X, or Satinique? For that matter, have you ever actually had any experience prior to Amway in business and do you know what the FTC considers legitimate?

Let's get away from the regurgitated garbage you are spewing out from your Amway uplines and ask some critical questions. Why are your uplines telling you that the only fault lies on the quitters shoulders? Why are you all of a sudden vehemently researching and defending Amway with your free time instead of selling products or recruiting? Were you always interested in being in the business of "distributing" other people's products? Do you realize that if you don't actually sell any products, then you are a customer and not a "distributor"?

Anonymous said, "Who wants to work 40 hours a week to make money when you can create income through this business that doesn't tie you down and have another free 40 hours a week to spend more family time, travel, learn a new language, donate to charity, help the poor the list goes ON?"

40 hours a week is nothing compared to being an entrepreneur and running your own business. If you were truly a business owner, then you would know that you have to start working at least 100 hours a week and completely devote your life to getting your business off the ground. I would highly recommend tuning into Shark Tank because those are real entrepreneurs and they understand how difficult it is to run a business.

For the record, working 40 hours a week does not stop you from doing any of the things you listed. There are plenty of people that work 40 hours a week and still knock out some or all of the things on that list.

John Doe said...

Anonymous said,

"This business may not give benefits but lets be honest if you're at a job making $100,000 a year that's all you will make year after year."

First of all, this statement tells me you have never had a very good job. $100,000 a year is not even close to the tip of the iceberg these days, and if you are making a $100,000 a year salary at a job, then there is always potential for vertical ascension. Also, that is only $100,000 a year in active income which you can invest into passive income opportunities. With that $100,000, depending on where you live, you can invest that money into stocks, bonds, business investment opportunities with partners, real estate, or many other things to enhance that $100,000 a year into something bigger. This statement reflects your ignorance to income generation.

Anonymous said,

"In this business starting off may be $50 a month, then after the hard work it will increase to $500 a month, keep it going up too $5,000 then $500,000 it ALWAYS KEEPS GROWING and it just makes sense. So if you decided to quit blame yourself not Amway.. after 60 years its because they're doing something right."

This is called the hard work fallacy. This again, is a very rudimentary version of thinking that comes from watching too many sitcoms. There is not an absolute correlation between hard work and success, but rather a likelihood that suggests working harder will increase your chances of success. There are many people that work very hard and will reap very little in comparison to others. This is something Amway consistently misrepresents because the people they target don't know the difference.

An example is, twins enter the workforce at the same time and choose very different careers. The first twin decides to become a roofer, while the second twin decides to become an investment banker. They both start working for a company at 40 hours a week making $40,000 a year salaries. The first twin continues on this path for the next 10 years working extremely hard in the blistering sun, while the second twin begins investing parts of his $40,000 a year into bonds while receiving promotions. Eventually, the second twin begins to receive more passive income monthly than the first twin because the dividends paid from the bonds maturing grows exponentially due to the amount of money the twin put in. He begins to cut his hours until 30 years down the line, the second twin no longer has to work.

The second twin learned how to grow their money and never worked as hard as the first twin, and yet we are taught to believe that the first twin should have made more money based on the logic you presented in the above statement. It isn't just about working hard, but knowing what to do with the assets after working hard.

Anonymous said...

To: John Doe

Oh, by the way, regarding hard work fallacy, does luck play a huge factor on human success?

John Doe said...


Absolutely it does! There are many extreme examples such as, winning the lottery, getting born into a wealthy family, or simply being in the right place and somehow befriending the right people. These factors are an extremely small percentage and shouldn't really be calculated into the luck factor, but there are two VERY large percentages that should. People being born into an area with more opportunity than other areas. In general, people born in the United States have a far larger opportunity for success than anywhere else in the world, which could be considered luck. Also, there are different opportunities for people based on their socioeconomic environment. A person may be luckier to be in an urban environment with a higher demand for a wider range of products than someone born into a "One horse town". Luck is probably one of the most misunderstood concepts when talking to MLMers, which is sad because the people at the top got EXTREMELY lucky. Beating a 99+% failure rate is DEFINITELY luck.

Anonymous said...

quick question guys, how does any of this affect you?
Because if it doesn't that theres no point in arguing what other people do in their lives.

RD said...

People you have to decide to whom you want to listen who have done something Or people who are just posting blog against Amway or WWDB?

If I were you, I would listen & try to understand why are people becoming successful?
I would try to ask question to leaders who are actively building this business!
Don’t let dream killers affect you, who don’t have a fruit on their tree.
God bless you!

Joecool said...

RD, the problem is nobody has been able to show evidence of people "doing something" in Amway or WWDB. Leaders who are actively building the business have a reason to be biased and to lies to IBOs to get them to move volume and to buy tools.

You talk about dream killers who don't have fruit on their tree. Well, for you information, I am a millionaire and I can prove it if needed.

What fruit does your upline have on their "tree" that they are willing to prove?

Of course I won't prove my financials unless you're willing to wager some significant money. Of course your upline will tell you their financials are none of your business.

Anonymous said...

To RD --

There's a difference between a dream and a pipe-dream.

Amway is nothing but a racket, in which 99% of those entering the business fail to make money (that's from Amway's published literature).

Nobody is "stealing dreams" here. We;'re performing a public service by showing that Amway and all of its subsystems are based on an illusion.

Alec Kabel said...

I was in for 5 months. I learned a lot from them and they are wonderful people. However, what they call "profit" is not. Those who dedicate their lives to this will succeed. But only if it's their whole life. They helped me to educate me on business and people skills until I felt I had enough of the few week hype up and signup process

Alec Kabel said...

If you think Amway is the only way to be free, you are so brainwashed it's not even funny. I got out after 5 months of intense effort into building my business and was In a worse position than I was before.