One of the things IBOs are taught is to blame themselves for is not working the business hard enough or not doing things right, exactly as upline advised. Actually, nothing could be further from the truth. It's just that uplines want to be absolved from any responsibility so they teach downline that failure in Amway is their own (The downline's) fault. Upline is also quick to take credit for any success, of course. Why shouldn't these same leaders be held accountable for their downline's results? And I would argue that the numbers of failures (the vast majority) would suggest that upline advice is suspect at best and terribly ineffective at worst.
The reason why hard work doesn't equal success is because an Amway IBO is basically a commissioned sales person. In commissioned sales, one can work hard for no reward and at times, little effort may reap large rewards. But in Amway, with a bad reputation, Amway IBOs are dealt a handicap that most simply cannot overcome. Getting new people to recruitment meetings is hard enough, not even factoring in the abililty to sponsor others. Then you toss in the high and uncompetitive prices of products and when factoring in these tidbits, it's easy to see why uplines teach buy from yourself and selling is not needed or emphasized in a serious manner.
The work involved is very simple. Sell products and get other IBOs in your downline to be able to leverage your volume. Many IBOs work hard and attend all of the functions and do all of the steps as outlined by upline, but very few reap rewards and most quit when they realize that the system doesn't work. It is sad that on top of losing money, that IBOs are also taught to blame themselves for their demise. Where is the upline when IBOs bust their butts working hard and get no rewards? On top of that, to make it worse, uplines profit from selling training and motivation to their downlines. Why aren't they held acountable?
I've read comments by some Amway defenders wanting to sue Amway critics for a potential loss of business. What loss of business? Most IBOs do nothing and quit to begin with. Most critics, like myself are simply stating our experiences and opinions. Many of which are true and still happening today. So I will ask, what about the millions of former IBOs who may have lost billions of dollars because of false claims which led them to believe that they would get rich following upline advice? Maybe former IBOs should unite and file claims against unethical upline leaders who led them astray? Why not hold these leaders accountable?
In any case, hard work doesn't equate success in Amway and I dare anyone to try to prove me wrong.
19 comments:
Joe, I've been reading your blog and several others dealing with Amway for a few months now. I've discovered something really strange about those "defenders" of Amway. Work your way through their spelling errors and atrocious grammar, and here's what you'll find:
If you call Amway a cult, they simply reply "Everything in the world is a cult! Everybody joins some sort of organization where they have to be a believer and a disciple!"
If you say Amway is a pyramid scheme, they answer "Every job is a pyramid scheme! Everyone is linked in a hierarchy where the ones on top make money off the ones below!"
If you argue that everybody in Amway is brainwashed, they argue "We are all brainwashed every day! Brainwashing is a part of life!"
If you mention that the majority of Amway IBOs lose money, they retort "Most business ventures fail! Most startups never get off the ground,and the entrepreneurs go broke!"
All of this is what lawyers call "an affirmative defense." Such a defense means that you admit the charges brought against you, but argue that you were justified in doing what you did and should not be held accountable for it.
In short, Amway defenders say "Yeah, we're a cult and a pyramid scheme and we're brainwashed and most of us will fail. So what?"
With ignorance this thick, Amwayers are like Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing will penetrate their skulls.
Your comments are spot on. I had Amway defenders tell me my job is a pyramid so my comeback was thank you for confirming that Amway is a pyramid. I said the same thing when they said people attending a football game were a cult.
It's funny when you see through their defense schemes.
Have you all had been Amway IBOs?
All those arguments are stupid as hell too. Their argument about jobs being pyramid schemes piss me off.
"All jobs are pyramid schemes cause of the hierarchy." That's such a stupid argument. You know why the guys up top makes more of the money than the guys below? They probably know more, has more experience, and has the qualifications needed to do a job that is more difficult than you, thus is paid more. That's not a pyramid scheme, it's levels of qualification and knowledge. Maybe if you studied hard in school you'd be up there as well. And the guys up top don't make money off the guys below... The guys up top PAY money to the guys below for their SERVICE based on their LEVELS OF QUALIFICATION. Amway, regardless of what degrees or knowledge you possess, what skills or talents you have, is a pyramid scheme on the fact that most of your income potential is from recruiting.
Twiggy
What are had been IBOs?
Very true. Your level is based on where you are on the pyramid. We culd be completely equal but someone will make money off my efforts forever in Amway simply because they joined before me.
Exactly! Hell, take it a step further! I could be a janitor that joins Amway, and you could be a Doctor that joins UNDER me in Amway, and I'll be making money off you as long as you stay.
Twiggy
Twiggy you wont be making money off this hypothethical doctor unless he does something no matter how long he stays. As most people dont do anything dont hold your breaath.
Yes, and that's why Amway makes a big stink about being "an equal opportunity business."
If you analyze that claim, all it's saying is "Everybody in Amway has an equal opportunity to rip off the people below them in the pyramid."
It's another example of how Amway uses the rhetoric of free enterprise and equality to cover up a basically criminal scam.
LOL, brings a new way of looking at equal opportunity.
And that sums up why it's so difficult to make money in Amway. First off, most people do nothing. And when people do the work, they realize their efforts are channeling money to upline and not so much to themselves.
Anonymous, please focus. My point isn't whether or not the hypothetical doctor puts in work or whether I, the hypothetical janitor makes money off the doctor. My point is, doctors are paid the wage they are because of the amount of knowledge, experience, and skill needed to treat patients versus janitors, which almost anyone can do the work they do (not trying to put down janitors, I greatly appreciate what they do). Would you trust a janitor to prescribe you medicine for a sickness? No, they don't have the knowledge, experience, skills, nor the trust factor for them to prescribe you medicine. I'm saying that the argument made by Amway IBO's that jobs are Pyramid Schemes is an extremely stupid argument. Do jobs have a pyramid like structure? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on where you go. That pyramid structure represents a hierarchy of knowledge, skill, talents, and qualifications where as in MLM's such as Amway, the pyramid structure represents flow a of money regardless of who you are, what you know, and what you can do.
Twiggy
Also a completely stupid punchline. How does any other career not have an "equal opportunity"? If you put in the work, if you study hard and gain the knowledge, skills, and qualifications needed to obtain a certain level in your career, then you get that opportunity. Pretty sure all careers are "equally opportunistic" with some very minimal exceptions and rare cases.
Twiggy
In connection with this argument, it's interesting that a number of Amway partisans have said that success in Amway is more likely for LESS intelligent people rather than for MORE intelligent people. It helps to be dumb in Amway.
When you press them to give a reason, they say that less intelligent people are more likely to follow up-line directions blindly and without question, thereby "duplicating" up-line success. Also, the say that more intelligent people are too perceptive and questioning for their own good, and are always bringing up issues and problems that aren't important ("detailitis," they call it).
Dexter Yager, like Charlie Marsh before him, prides himself on not being educated or even especially smart. And many ambots have emulated this attitude and approach. That's why they have little respect for education or culture. Amway partisans define "being smart" as being a CORE Amway freak.
Amway uplines often say to succeed, you only need to be able to copy. What you need to copy are the skills of lying and pretending to be sincere at the same time. Those are valuable skills in building an Amway business apparently.
Twiggy. I got your point but the way you expressed it was misleading and gave the impression thay you can make money of a downline irrespective of what he does. This is is what the plan implies and people fall for it. You are correct in your assertion that its a flow of money irrespective of what skills you have. But to me this is the strong point of the business. Anyone can grow it. The biggest distributor in korea with several hundred diamonds was a customer for 15 years before his ibo showed him the plan. Adding tp your comments i would say this business would work equally well if there was only a simple requirement that one sent a check of 100 dollars upline every month and you found downline to do the same. No need for products that are never used and in anycase unsaleable due to price.
That's why I believe Amway is a pyramid scheme. The products are not competitive and while Amway IBOs brag about being the #1 online retailer in certain products, it's because Amway has millions of IBOs who self consume the stuff.
I doubt that significant sales occur to people who are not IBOs.
Amway is a pyramid scheme that escapes the authorities because they have been able to incorporate what appears to be legitimate sales to customers.
A number of Amway defenders have come here and onto other blogs to admit this truth. They say "I don't have to sell anything! Amway works without that!" In other words, the movement of products is purely a camouflage or a blind. The real task of Amway is to get more and more people into "The Plan."
This is why the retailing of Amway products is never emphasized in the various "systems" that sell tools. Self-consumption, yes -- but retail to non-Amway folks? No. Nobody in those systems really gives a shit about external movement of product. They only care about IBO recruitment and the long-term retention of such recruits.
The way to hurt Amway is to undermine its recruitment drive. When the company ceases to get new IBOs, the whole rotten edifice will begin to totter.
Yes, without the infusion of new IBOs, pyramid schemes suffer. Just look at Vemma.
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