Wednesday, May 4, 2016

Amway Changes Your Life?

One of the things that was heavily promoted when I was an IBO, and I believe is still promoted, is the control of time and money. I recall hearing that "broke" people often have lots of time, but can't do much because of a lack of money, or how a very hard working man might have money but a lack of time as he is working 80 hours per week. So why not join Amway, work hard for 2-5 years and have all the time and money you need for life?

Well, it sounds good on the surface, but how many people actually do that? I don't know of any IBO who worked the business 2-5 years and walked away from their business to enjoy control of time and money forever. And there are reasons for that. Attrition. Most IBOs who join don't do much and more than half of all IBOs won't even be in business for more than a year. IBOs also need to be active and moving side volume in order to qualify for some of the bonuses. It is why I believe that there aren't any diamonds who left to enjoy their time and money because of passive ongoing Amway income. Diamonds and above must continually work the business or their businesses will fall apart like the waves would erode a sand castle at the beach.

For many Amway IBOs ironically, what they desire most, time and money, is what they have less of because of their involvement in the Amway oppoprtunity. It is because of the way many IBOs are taught by the systems such as WWDB, BWW or N21. Many of these groups will teach a defacto PV requirement of 100 PV which costs about $300 monthly. In some cases, you are getting a small box of goods for the same amount of cash that would have gotten you a cartload of goods at WalMart or Costco. For system IBOs, you are also paying for instruction that basically tells you that this is a great idea and that you should never quit.

So now when your family and friends have backyard barbeques or birthday parties, you are absent because you are securing your financial future. Your kids surely won't mind you missing their baseball games or sending them to the sitters while you attend a function. Your family and friends will be wowed when you retire next year and throw them a party to end all parties. It all seems surreal, and for most, it truly is. There may be $10 or even $50 monthly checks rolling in from Amway but is never covers the cost of your expenses. You can't quit because success might be right around the corner, or you might hear something at a function that turns your fortunes around!

Suddenly your sponsor or upline might tell you that the Amway business is not about money. You might be told that you are a nicer person or a better parent (even if you neglect your kids to attend functions), or that the business opportunity has saved your marriage. Which leads to my question. What have you achieved in the Amway business that has given you more control of time and money? Do you have less time and money as a result of your involvement with Amway?

During my involvement with Amway, my life was changed, but not for the better. And it wasn't because of Amway the corporation. It was self serving teaching by WWDB leaders designed to suck the life out of IBOs. We were to attend all meetings. All means all. We were to submit to upline. Check your ego at the door. We were to buy extra tapes/cds because you can;'t listen to the same ones each day. Wives and husbands needed seperate standing orders. If downline quit, you don't cancel standing order. It is why I saw crosslines go bankrupt, lose a home to foreclosure and many ended up quitting and with large financial losses. Yes, Amway will change your life, but probably not for the better.

I hope this message of personal experience helps information seekers.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Joe, it all boils down to the fact that Amway is not a business, but a fake religion.

In a genuine religion, serious membership produces a change in your life that is difficult and somewhat burdensome. If you are a devout Catholic, or an orthodox Jew, or a very observant Protestant, or whatever, your seriousness means that you will have do do all sorts of things that are inconvenient and uncomfortable. And yes, you will not have as much money as you might, because you will have to tithe or contribute or make charitable donations. But you accept all this, because you are honestly dedicated to the religion you have chosen.

So sure -- Ambots see that membership in Amway is taking away their time, money, and freedom. But they simply accept it. Amway is their religion.

Joecool said...

Agreed, but unless you are caught up in the "prosperity" gospel, the church doesn't promise anyone wealth or an easy life. In fact, you would be told there's a cost to follow the Lord.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely correct. That's why Amway is an idolatrous and blasphemous faith. Your "Lord" is your up-line, or the Amway Corporation itself.

Joecool said...

When you sign with Amway, they basically own you and you are at their mercy.

Paul said...

Joecool and all commentators, if we could politically advocate for a law to reform Amway and WWDB/BWW/N21/etc. practices, what do you think draft legislation on that would look like?

Anonymous said...

Quote:"We were to attend all meetings. All means all. We were to submit to upline." Nobody forced me to do anything,nore buy products neither recruit persons or attend meetings or rally. Only thing I had to do was to pay my renewal tax, that is about 20 euro or 25$ per one year. I do not meet my upline, as the mater of fact I do not know the person, I was recruited by someone who placed me under this person because of his ideea of building his downline. I can not put pressure on my downline to buy anything, they are doing their business as they like.

Ben Dover said...

You guys should check out this clip from Last Week Tonight by John Oliver on televangelism, and see how many similarities you can pull out of it with Amway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

He has two follow up videos for the end of the segment which I do not wish to give away, but those are also worth watching!

Joecool said...

Thanks Ben!

Joecool said...

The FTC took suggestions some years back but they apparently caved in due to political pressure and did not implement stricter rules.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, to become jealous of people who have jobs, who are well-off, who are happy, who have a stable career and people who are not interested in amway.

It only turns them into sensitive, angry and vicious individual fixated with money that they will not be able to have because of their involvement.

Joecool said...

OK, it's good that nobody pressures you to buy stuff. But do you think it's fair for your uplines to get about 90% of the bonuses from your sales forever because they signed up before you?

Joecool said...

The diamonds must put down the people with jobs because it makes the recruits start to think about wanting another option. Of course that option is Amway, which is not a good one.

Jerry D. said...

Anonymous 5:47, it looks like you're not in any motivational organization, then. Good for you. Now, how much are you making/losing in Amway?

Joecool said...

They lose whatever it costs to pay for standing orders, voicemail, book of the month and functions.

These expenses can run from $150 to $300 a month or more.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for posting my oppinion.I'm making between $300 and $500 monthly, sometime less or more, with a small downline. Good money to buy some quality products. I have an occupation I do not intend to quit so building Amway is secondary.

I suppose that I'm in BWW(Britt) but it doesn't mean too much for me. Sincerely, I do not care how much my upline earns because of my presence. I do not see this business as being between me and my upline, the relation is straight with the manufacturer.

As I said, I pay $25 for renewal, to Amway, that is all. I know what standing orders are, book of the month, tapes, cd, but nobody can take the money out of my pocket.

I think that building a mlm business is a matter of numbers mainly, a good support in quality products and a good manufacturer to rely on, that is all.

Long post but the last.
Bye and have a good time here.

Joecool said...

I hope you return and let us kindly know how you make between $300 and $500 monthly with a small downline. If you are attending functions, I don't believe your story.

Paul said...

Spot on, Joecool! How can this guy be making $300 with a 'small downline' as he says???

Anonymous said...

Hi, I'm back, just because there are some interesting things on your blog.
I'm not a mlm advocate and I do not have to prove anything, believe it or not, take it or leave it, it's ok with me.
I try to understand an US point of view because I think you've noticed I'm not american. I think your blog is helpful for it, there is a lot of work.
So I'll continue reading.
On Amway page there is an income calculator, you can target an income and see the necessary amount of resources to achieve it(sales and partners). If it seems feasible just go for it, you don't need upline, books of the month, functions and all that emotional overload. It is just your business, you pay for it, you are the boss.
By the way, I can not see how one can lose money in this. Of course, there is an equal chance not to earn but you can not go "under zero".

Anonymous said...

Well, if this fellow is making between $300 and $500 per month just from retailing Amway products to the public, and perhaps from the retail sales of his down-line, then more power to him. That's what Amway was always supposed to be -- a small sideline that helps you make a little extra cash.

Since he speaks of his renewal fee as 25 euro, he's in some foreign market. I don't think he'd be able to do what he says he does if he were involved in a North American-based Amway group. He'd be badgered and abused by his up-line for not buying tools or voicemail or any of the rest of the motivational garbage.

I think we can make a distinction between the Good Amway, and the Bad Amway. In the Good Amway, you concentrate your energy on selling products. In the Bad Amway, you concentrate your energy on selling The Plan.

In North America, the Bad Amway is supreme.

Joecool said...

Agreed, but retailng is very difficult because the prices are too high. The layers of bonuses that are paid are included in the price of products

Joecool said...

By lying?

Joecool said...

Do you attend rallies and other Amway related functions?

Ben Dover said...

Anonymous said, "By the way, I can not see how one can lose money in this. Of course, there is an equal chance not to earn but you can not go "under zero"."

I'm not sure you understand how ridiculous that line is, and the double standards built into it. If you are buying products to sell in your business, and you do not sell enough to cover your overhead for the products then you are making less than $0.00...that's basic business. If you are in the delusion that when you don't sell the products, or you are too busy consuming them, then you are still going far below $0.00 and you are losing money. The only way that you don't go below $0.00 is if you don't start this as a business to begin with and only buy products as a customer, or you create a successful downline and generate a profit.

While you in particular do not spend money on the "tools" to success that BWW provides, there are other expenses that take away from your $300-$500 a month profit (which by the way he made sound like profit, but was more than likely what he is getting back after spending a bunch of money on the products each month, and not a net gain). We should be clear on how much money you are actually clearing on your paychecks after you have spent a bunch of money on the website and products.

You are also not accounting for the hours you have been putting in...if you are making $300-$500 a month and work 40 hours a week at this...you are essentially making between $1.875-$3.125. Calculating the hours you are putting in is easy...it's literally anything and everything having to do with the business, and not just when a transaction occurs.

I'm guessing they are also not accounting for the gas, food, and possibly lodging (depending on how far this person is traveling to help sell products or recruit new downline), and that comes in at a very hefty charge. I wouldn't be surprised if this person is wildly in the red, even though they don't pay for tools.

Paul said...

Anonymous still hasn't told us how exactly he makes $300-500 a month. How many people are in your downline and how much is your retail sales volume?

Anonymous said...

Joe, let's give this guy the benefit of the doubt, and let's assume he is telling us the truth. Could this be an illustration of a real CULTURAL difference between the way Amway is practiced in different societies?

Perhaps foreigners are more apt to purchase Amway products than North Americans are. I don't know why that might be, but maybe it's so. If it is, then maybe this guy can indeed make a profit by retail sales.

Perhaps it's easier to develop down-line in a culture where there is more social cohesion, and where family links are much stronger than they are here.

Perhaps there isn't that tedious dog-eat-dog entrepreneurial madness that infects so much North American thinking. Maybe there's a more laid-back tone to Amway in foreign countries, and everybody isn't salivating at the mouth for more PV so as to get a pin.

This guy says there is no pressure at all on him to buy tools and other motivational crap. Well, isn't that a really big difference between the Amway we know, and the Amway that exists in his country? Amway without the tapes, CDs, books, voicemail, night owls, and all the other horrors might actually be human.

Maybe the trouble with Amway that we know is the "Am" part -- it's too goddamned American.

Joecool said...

Ben, I suppose there's a "good" Amway somewhere out there but I haven't found it yet. I hope he returns and fills us in.

Joecool said...

Without a lo of downline volume, you'd need to sell a a lot of stuff to make $300 to $500.

Joecool said...

When you run a business, you have business expenses. While you would have minimal expenses if not for tools, you still invest your time. Many IBOs don't seem to understand the return on investment of time and money. IMO, Amway is a bad investment.

Anonymous said...

The more I read the more I understand and Joecool's attitude is understandable.
Did they tell you "This is not sales." They lied.
"This is about people not products." Beautiful lie.
"Products are cheap." Of course they are not, as you can see with your own eyes. But cetainly there are people who like it.
Did they tell you "buy tonnes of these inspirational stuff and you'll get rich in no time"? They lied.
Did they tell you "these products are selling by themselves, so make a first order of 200 VP"? They lied.
"Join this business and in less than a year you'll get four figures paycheck." I do not think it is possible.
Tell me, do they punish you if you don't get into debt to attend meetigs and rally?
Did they tell you "I promise you nothing. This is a skill you have to learn. It takes time and patience."? They were right.
I do not have $300 to spend on this business monthly and I don't.
I always buy products on my customers money, paid in advance.Orders are maily over 50VP.
This takes time to buld.
For orders over 50VP I have free shipping and delivery, I always look for this opportunity. I can deliver an order from deposit straight to my customer, there is no need to spend my time and money.
Monthly volume it a matter of number of partners, downline distribution, customers portfolio and some other things, building this is a painstaking task, especially at the beginning.
So please excuse my grammar and spelling, I do not want to swim against the stream anymore. Bye.