Friday, July 27, 2018

What Profits?

I find it humorous when so many Amway IBOs talk about their anecdotal stories of success, or talk about how their system teaches a foolproof way of succeeding in Amway. Yet I have not seen a single IBO who was willing to describe their business structure or talk about how they progressed from zero PV into a profitable structure. Amway's biggest defender, David Steadson AKA IBOfightback is a good example of someone who can talk a good game but cannot back it up with evidence of any success in Amway. In fact, where is David Steadson these days? Looks like he's finally dropped out of the Amway debate.

Back in my IBO days, WWDB leaders would teach that someone who could talk a good game was a teacher, and not a doer. Many IBOs may have a good theory about how to build a business but evidence clearly shows that it is talk and not action. One specific example is how an IBO is supposed to find 20 customers who each buy 20 PV from an IBO. Nobody I know of or heard of has ever had 20 customers who regularly purchase the equivalent of 20 PV each month consistently. Sure, there might be some rare IBO who does a lot of sales, but given Amway's less than competitive prices, most IBOs likely have sympathetic family and friends as their primary customers, if they have any customers. It's difficult to sell generic types of products for premium prices.

Based on my observations, most IBOs have a small business, unable to sponsor enough downline to move any significant volume. They faithfully self consume 100 PV and do most of the CORE steps, except for being able to consistently show the plan and sponsor downline. Why is this? It is because the Amway reputation is stained and getting people to see the plan is an enormous challenge by itself, not taking into consideration that sponsoring is even harder. If you are reading this blog and you can relate to what you see here, perhaps you need to re-think your business situation and ask your sponsor some tough questions. If your Amway business is not progressing as they show in the plan, when will it ever? Or what will you change if your upline's teaching is not helping you progress? Your upline might say "never quit", but sometimes a wise business decision is to quit and do something else. That's not quitting on your dreams, but simply finding a better venue to achieve them.

Now this leads to another question. Other than flashing a photocopy of someone's diamond bonus or the like, has your sponsor or anyone upline actually showed evidence of a profit in Amway? If you asked, what response did you receive? When I asked my sponsor about profit, I was told it was "none of my business". I believe that someone who is asking you to follow their system, which is not free, should be tasked with providing this information. If your upline teaches submission to upline, even more so you should demand to see results. If your upline refuses to show evidence of a profit, why should you follow their advice?

If your upline or sponsor refuses to show you evidence of profit, it should send up red flags all over the place. Maybe, just maybe, the critics of Amway are onto something.


Anonymous said...

I remember "IBOFartback" (David Steadson). He was even stupider than Malachy Smith. Steadson was clearly on the Amway payroll, as there was no way he could have been running around the internet from site to site, defending Amway, without having some sort of financial motive or backing to do such a wide-ranging job. He also did the same thing for other MLMs after ceasing to work for the scum in Ada, Michigan. He seems to have disappeared -- perhaps he's now "walking the beaches of the world."

The refusal of up-line in Amway to provide specific details about their personal profitability, and their stubborn disinclination to tell IBOs precisely what IBOs are doing wrong when year after year passes with no net profit, are signs of a pure scam. Real businessmen want to help others who are involved in their business. They want to deal with problems by seeking out practical solutions. They don't tell you to buy more fucking CDs, and attend more half-assed "functions," or post more glossy photographs of fancy cars on your refrigerator. That's not genuine business advice. That's brainless fantasy.

The biggest piece of bullshit in Amway is the command "Never quit!" That idea is overtly insane and wrong. If something is a financial disaster for you, you are insane NOT to quit. What the command "Never quit!" really means is this: "Never stop sending money to your up-line, regardless of how much it hurts you."

In World War II, Japanese soldiers were chained to their machine guns, so that they would "never quit." They fought to the last cartridge, and died there. But both they and their officers knew that this would happen -- they didn't have some idiotic idea that they were going to survive, and be millionaires with residual income.

I'd love it if that shithead Malachy Smith would show up here. We'd give his ass such a kicking that he wouldn't be able to sit down for a month.

Joecool said...

Spot on comments! Malachy is busy licking the boots of his upline. LOL

kwaaikat said...

That is indeed the million Dollar question Joe.(or more likely the $10 Dollar question). Thanks for calling that out.

Popular (in the MLM world) Youtube vlogs are dedicated to help IBOs answer the “how much are you earning?”question. In fact, experts even monetize this question, raking it in from followers eager to learn the solution to this omnipresent dilemma.

Three of them auggest “I don’t know yet, I’m still collecting!”. Another is proposing the IBO responds with “it depends on your effort, the question is not what have I earned, but what you could earn.”. Some comments suggest “You wouldn’t believe me if I told you.”, “which business owner ever discloses how much he is earning” or “I’m new, but my upline whom you’ll also be working with is raking it it” (but no specifics will be provided about him either).

These are all nonsensical, of course, and none of these responses will fly with a bank, investor, potential buyer or indeed these days, most prospects.

A completely relevant and utterly simple question, yet with blogs, vlogs and internal debates about how best to avoid it. If anyone sitting on the fence is reading this, please consider the irony. Why is this even a thing?? I often disclose my (real business) earnings to interested parties. Buyers, investors etc, sometimes even customers who need an assurance that their purchase will be supported. Certainly in a close mentorship arrangement where duplication is expected, the right of the apprentice to establish quantifyable credentials of a mentor is non negotionable.

In Amway’s case, I’m told even though upline’s financials are top secret, the credentials rest upon a “proven” plan. If I challenge that “proven” with regard to the dismal success rate, they’ll point to some insane successes as proof. If I challenge that, they’ll say Amway has been around since the 1950’s. If the Amway Corporation’s ability to succeed and endure implies it’s good for those connected and purchasing from it, then the South American drug cartels must be hugely beneficial to drug addicts.

If an upline were successful, and there was nothing embarasssing (such as excessive income from on the side materials that he pushes) then sharing financials would be a powerful critic silencing deal clincher (for new prospects) and motivator (for downline). If earnings were unexpectedly high (“you wouldn’t believe me if I told you”) then financial statements would be an exremely powerful sales tool.

Joecool said...


Great comment. If uplines were raking it in as they would have us believe, why not "open the books" and prove it. Real business owners selling a business routinely do it to prove their earnings. If you are being prospected and expected to invest time and money into Amway, it's perfectly reasonable to ask for this information. If you are told "none of your business" or that their earnings are not indicative of yours, you should run away from them as fast as your can.

Anonymous said...

Imagine an investment firm that refused to tell prospective clients about typical rates of return for the past ten years. Imagine a bank that refused to tell depositors what rate of interest they'd get on savings deposits.

Hell - just imagine trying to buy a restaurant or bar, and the owner wouldn't tell you what his profits (or losses) were for the last three quarters.

If you can imagine all this, you are ready to sign up in the Amway "plan."