When I was an Amway IBO, I heard the saying over and over. Never quit, success might be right around the corner. There were countless stories by diamonds and emeralds of how they were on the verge of quitting, but stuck it out and somehow "made it". I also heard stories about why people should not quit because even if you were told "no" a thousand times, the next prospect might say "yes" and turn your entire business around. This mindset is almost like a gambler who thinks the next hand or the next roll of the dice will suddenly start the beginning of a good run.
I believe these are all heartfelt stories. However, I believe that many stories are embellished and made to order. Or in other words, made to fit a standing order. If you listen carefully to many of the standing orders, you will notice that the higher pins were consistently sponsoring people and generally achieved the platinum level in 18 months or less. There are exceptions of course, but the majority of stories I heard seem to have had the same theme. Those who were destined for success achieved some significant level in less than 2 years.
But for IBOs and new recruits, if you aren't constantly bringing in new people to the open meetings, and sponsoring new people, then you are very unlikely to ever achieve much in Amway. Statistically, less than one half of one percent ever reach platinum. Thus if you are unable to grow your organization or group, then you are unlikely to be that one who "makes it". Success is not around the corner as some uplines will have you believe. If you take 100 "no's" and then someone finally says "yes" then chances are that person who said yes, will "do nothing", or do little and wind up quitting. Chances are that person won't sponsor anyone or show anyone the plan. Chances are that person won't even be in the business a year later.
It might be a good idea for IBOs to take a step back and take an unbiased look at their business and their business activities. Is your group growing consistently? Is your volume increasing each month? Are you able to get people interested in seeing the plan on a consistent basis? If you answered "no" to any of these points, then you are unlikely to progress and achieve in the Amway business.
One important thing for people to note is that there are many ways to achieve your financial goals and dreams. Amway is probably not the best vehicle for most. The numbers speak for themselves. If less than one half of one percent ever reach platinum, where allegedly, IBOs finally see a profit, then I would say your chances of success are better elsewhere, even if that is a second job. The average "active" IBO earns about $200 a month according to Amway. Considering all IBOs, then the average income is probably about $100 a month. You can earn much more than that working 4-5 hours a week at minimum wage.
Is success right around the corner? I doubt it.
Friday, August 31, 2018
Thursday, August 30, 2018
Seeing Amway With Rose Colored Glasses?
One of the things Amway IBOs get attracted to is how uplines will promote traditional family values. They may talk about the "Leave it to Beaver" days where the man works a job and the wife takes care of the home and drops the kids off at school. While some of these values are great, they are not reality in today's world. The speakers at some Amway meetings may recruit others by saying you can have this out of the box lifestyle if you will only build your Amway business. This gets the wives or girlfriends excited as they would love to not have to work a 9-5 job.
Ironically, an IBO's desire for more time and money, more often than not, will result in less time and money for an IBO and the IBO's family. They will take time off to show the plan, attending countless numbers of meetings and to attend functions. They also have other meetings and night owls, and open meetings where they recruit prospects. They are taught to "delay" gratification, but many do not realize that they are permanently delaying gratification by participating in the "systems". Sadly, the vast majority of people in Amway, will never receive any monetary gratification. More likely, losses will be the net result.
An IBO's belief is often compartmentalized into thinking that showing the plan, listening to standing orders, submitting to upline's advice and attending all functions will result in guaranteed success within 2-5 years. Anyone who speaks a differing opinion of this is "negative" and should be avoided. Sadly, those who put forth such dedication and invest in the system are rarely rewarded with success. Even those who achieve the platinum level may often find that the net profit they realize is less than a minimum wage job with the same number of hours put forth. And maintaining a platinum level is a daunting task. Is this the success you seek?
My former sponsor achieved the platinum level in less than two years, but he never achieved Q12 status, and he never went beyond the platinum level. He has been involved for nearly 20 years now, and last I heard, is below the platinum level. All of that work and effort and I wonder if he even has a net profit of $1.00 for all of his efforts? I suspect he's got net losses of money and time for all of his efforts. It's a waste of your life, a waste of your time.
Yet, many IBOs continue to see the world through rose colored glasses, thinking that they will succeed if only they will never quit. They disregard the fact that 2-5 years has come and gone. They do not see that their bottom line is nowhere near what they were led to believe. But they believe that Amway will be their financial savior, even though there are facts and red flags pointing to the obvious reality that they will never achieve what they initially set out to achieve.
I hope my blog will get a few IBOs to take off the rose colored glasses for just a second.
Ironically, an IBO's desire for more time and money, more often than not, will result in less time and money for an IBO and the IBO's family. They will take time off to show the plan, attending countless numbers of meetings and to attend functions. They also have other meetings and night owls, and open meetings where they recruit prospects. They are taught to "delay" gratification, but many do not realize that they are permanently delaying gratification by participating in the "systems". Sadly, the vast majority of people in Amway, will never receive any monetary gratification. More likely, losses will be the net result.
An IBO's belief is often compartmentalized into thinking that showing the plan, listening to standing orders, submitting to upline's advice and attending all functions will result in guaranteed success within 2-5 years. Anyone who speaks a differing opinion of this is "negative" and should be avoided. Sadly, those who put forth such dedication and invest in the system are rarely rewarded with success. Even those who achieve the platinum level may often find that the net profit they realize is less than a minimum wage job with the same number of hours put forth. And maintaining a platinum level is a daunting task. Is this the success you seek?
My former sponsor achieved the platinum level in less than two years, but he never achieved Q12 status, and he never went beyond the platinum level. He has been involved for nearly 20 years now, and last I heard, is below the platinum level. All of that work and effort and I wonder if he even has a net profit of $1.00 for all of his efforts? I suspect he's got net losses of money and time for all of his efforts. It's a waste of your life, a waste of your time.
Yet, many IBOs continue to see the world through rose colored glasses, thinking that they will succeed if only they will never quit. They disregard the fact that 2-5 years has come and gone. They do not see that their bottom line is nowhere near what they were led to believe. But they believe that Amway will be their financial savior, even though there are facts and red flags pointing to the obvious reality that they will never achieve what they initially set out to achieve.
I hope my blog will get a few IBOs to take off the rose colored glasses for just a second.
Wednesday, August 29, 2018
The Business Mentality?
One of the things Amway IBOs "think" they possess, but in reality they are far from it, is "Business Mentality". It is not necessarily the fault of the IBOs. Many are sponsored into Amway by trusted friends or family lacking business experience. They will "submit" to upline as they are advised and will try to learn about the Amway business. The problem is that many upline leaders teach self serving business practices such as hard core dedication to their tools system, from which they often handsomely profit. Let's examine some of the questionable practices.
"Buy from yourself". If you have a business owner mentality, you only buy from yourself if it's beneficial to your business. Many IBOs talk about ridiculous things like a McDonald's owner would never eat at Burger King. That's totally false. Just because I own a McDonald's doesn't mean I am eating Big Macs the rest of my life. You cannot spend yourself to prosperity. If I sold pens for $1.00 and my cost was .50, and my competitor had a special on the same pens at 3 for $1.00, I'm buying them from my competition. Also, buying from yourself makes you a customer, not a business owner.
"Ignore facts if you have a dream". This is probably the biggest heap of bull crap taught by some upline. I have seen this spouted in particular by IBOs downline from WWDB and BWW leaders. A business owner studies the facts, not ignores them. Any REAL business owner wants to know how much he is bringing in and how much is going out. That's how you detect the heartbeat of your business. A site visitor named Gina on this site, posted a profit/loss statement from her real business. Naturally, IBOs were at a loss to discuss it because it was foreign material to them.
"Submit to upline" Another load of hogwash. Why should someone submit to upline simply because they "sponsored me" or joined before me or whatever? A real business owner would think independently and make business decisions based on facts and numbers, not on the advice of someone upline who hasn't taken the time to assess each IBO on a personal level to be able to give advice on an IBO's "Independent Business", or worse, advice on their personal lives".
"Dedication to the system". Silly advice as well. What dedication does the system have for an IBO? If an IBO succeeds (which is very rare), the system takes credit, but for the more than 99% of people who never make a significant income, it is their own fault if they don't make it. Amway apologists will defend this by saying that many may not have signed up wanting a significant income. While that may be partially true, tell me where people show "plans" designed for the guy who wants an extra $100 a month? The plans shown are always (AFAIK) to go platinum or diamond.
IBOs and information seekers, does any of this sound familiar? Is this a part of your experience? If so, I encourage you to ask questions here and get more information before proceeding with any more "business" activity.
"Buy from yourself". If you have a business owner mentality, you only buy from yourself if it's beneficial to your business. Many IBOs talk about ridiculous things like a McDonald's owner would never eat at Burger King. That's totally false. Just because I own a McDonald's doesn't mean I am eating Big Macs the rest of my life. You cannot spend yourself to prosperity. If I sold pens for $1.00 and my cost was .50, and my competitor had a special on the same pens at 3 for $1.00, I'm buying them from my competition. Also, buying from yourself makes you a customer, not a business owner.
"Ignore facts if you have a dream". This is probably the biggest heap of bull crap taught by some upline. I have seen this spouted in particular by IBOs downline from WWDB and BWW leaders. A business owner studies the facts, not ignores them. Any REAL business owner wants to know how much he is bringing in and how much is going out. That's how you detect the heartbeat of your business. A site visitor named Gina on this site, posted a profit/loss statement from her real business. Naturally, IBOs were at a loss to discuss it because it was foreign material to them.
"Submit to upline" Another load of hogwash. Why should someone submit to upline simply because they "sponsored me" or joined before me or whatever? A real business owner would think independently and make business decisions based on facts and numbers, not on the advice of someone upline who hasn't taken the time to assess each IBO on a personal level to be able to give advice on an IBO's "Independent Business", or worse, advice on their personal lives".
"Dedication to the system". Silly advice as well. What dedication does the system have for an IBO? If an IBO succeeds (which is very rare), the system takes credit, but for the more than 99% of people who never make a significant income, it is their own fault if they don't make it. Amway apologists will defend this by saying that many may not have signed up wanting a significant income. While that may be partially true, tell me where people show "plans" designed for the guy who wants an extra $100 a month? The plans shown are always (AFAIK) to go platinum or diamond.
IBOs and information seekers, does any of this sound familiar? Is this a part of your experience? If so, I encourage you to ask questions here and get more information before proceeding with any more "business" activity.
Tuesday, August 28, 2018
Working Hard In Amway?
One of the things that many Amway defenders will cite is that the people who don't succeed didn't work hard enough or didn't put in enough effort. While I agree that one must work hard to succeed in many endeavors, I will also state my informed opinion that working hard and success in Amway may not be related. I say this because I have seen so many testimonies of people who worked the Amway business hard and achieved little or no results. I put in tremendous effort when I was building my business only to see negligible results.
Part of the problem is that many uplines emphasize recruiting as their focus, even though there is no direct compensation for doing so. In fact, recruiting downline often comes with much expenses such as gas, babysitters, and the false belief that an IBO needs standing orders and seminars to learn this. Also, Amway has a spotty reputation in the US, thus making recruiting potential downline a very difficult task. Also, the focus on recruiting often takes away the emphasis on product sales, which is where you actually earn money for some of your efforts. No business can survive without sales. Amway is no different, even if you upline pushes "buy from yourself".
An important part of any business is to find customers to buy your goods. Because IBOs already spend much of their time recruiting and not selling, they are already at a disadvantage over many other businesses. Add in the seemingly un-competetive prices of Amway and Amway partner store products and you give IBOs yet another disadvantage over most other businesses. If there were better value in these goods and services, then IBOs who sell instead of recruit would be much more common. Also, the Amway compensation plan often rewards uplines rather than the IBOs who actually do the work of moving the volume. If I'm a rank and file IBO and move 100 PV, I earn about $10 in Amway bonuses. My 100 PV generates about $100 in Amway bonuses, thus somewhere upline gets the other $90 for no reason other than they signed up before me. How is that fair?
I also believe that the Amway business is so outdated and inefficient. While you may have a website to sell your goods, you have restrictions that severely limit the ability of an IBO to drive traffic to their website. The person to person touch may sound nice and flowery, but it is the most inefficient way to make sales. It is why people pay millions to advertise during the Superbowl, because you may have several hundred million people watching the advertisement and can drive up your name recognition and sales.
While working hard is definitely important to succeeding in any venture, I don't believe there is any bonafide correlation that working hard equates success in the Amway business for the reasons I have outlined in this post.
Part of the problem is that many uplines emphasize recruiting as their focus, even though there is no direct compensation for doing so. In fact, recruiting downline often comes with much expenses such as gas, babysitters, and the false belief that an IBO needs standing orders and seminars to learn this. Also, Amway has a spotty reputation in the US, thus making recruiting potential downline a very difficult task. Also, the focus on recruiting often takes away the emphasis on product sales, which is where you actually earn money for some of your efforts. No business can survive without sales. Amway is no different, even if you upline pushes "buy from yourself".
An important part of any business is to find customers to buy your goods. Because IBOs already spend much of their time recruiting and not selling, they are already at a disadvantage over many other businesses. Add in the seemingly un-competetive prices of Amway and Amway partner store products and you give IBOs yet another disadvantage over most other businesses. If there were better value in these goods and services, then IBOs who sell instead of recruit would be much more common. Also, the Amway compensation plan often rewards uplines rather than the IBOs who actually do the work of moving the volume. If I'm a rank and file IBO and move 100 PV, I earn about $10 in Amway bonuses. My 100 PV generates about $100 in Amway bonuses, thus somewhere upline gets the other $90 for no reason other than they signed up before me. How is that fair?
I also believe that the Amway business is so outdated and inefficient. While you may have a website to sell your goods, you have restrictions that severely limit the ability of an IBO to drive traffic to their website. The person to person touch may sound nice and flowery, but it is the most inefficient way to make sales. It is why people pay millions to advertise during the Superbowl, because you may have several hundred million people watching the advertisement and can drive up your name recognition and sales.
While working hard is definitely important to succeeding in any venture, I don't believe there is any bonafide correlation that working hard equates success in the Amway business for the reasons I have outlined in this post.
Monday, August 27, 2018
Your Job Is A Pyramid?
One of ths things I take issue with is how Amway uplines will create an us versus them mentality in the business. Thus friends and family who care about you suddenly become "negative" and association with them should be limited. In some cases, people are discouraged from excellence in their jobs or professions because it takes the focus off of their Amway business. What I was told was to do my job, but my radar should always be on for new prospects. Some cross line IBOs turned down promotions at work because they did not want to have to work longer hours or take the focus off of their Amway businesses.
In some cases, the speaker at open meetings or functions will put down people's jobs. A commonly used acronym was J-O-B = "Just Over Broke". Some leaders also would say that my job was a pyramid because you will never earn more than the boss. A completely ridiculous comparison because someone's job has no relationship with how people view the Amway business (i.e. an Amway pyramid) and in a job, every employee gets paid and has a net gain at the end of the month. Not true in Amway. If IBOs only use KATE for example, an IBO at 100 PV or less will already be at a loss, and that is not considering any other expenses that IBO may have. And while a job may have a corporate hierarchy, or chain of command, the business owner and CEO or manager earns their salary from customers, not directly from the pockets of their employees.
Some uplines will laugh about people's jobs, stating that they wake up at the "crack of noon". What these same uplines may not tell you is that they wake up at noon because they are up at 3:00 in the morning doing nite owls for their groups and looking for recruits. These same uplines possibly can't do much with their downlines during the weekdays since their downlines mostly tend to have 9-5 jobs. So a diamond's job is basically working the night shift and weekends.
So if you are of the opinion that nobody should criticize the Amway opportunity or IBO behavior, maybe uplines and IBOs should not criticize family and friends who disagree with or are not interested in the opportunity, and maybe the same uplines and IBOs should not criticize people who choose to work jobs. Don't most IBOs rely on their jobs as their Amway income is not sufficient to even pay for their Amway business related expenses?
In some cases, the speaker at open meetings or functions will put down people's jobs. A commonly used acronym was J-O-B = "Just Over Broke". Some leaders also would say that my job was a pyramid because you will never earn more than the boss. A completely ridiculous comparison because someone's job has no relationship with how people view the Amway business (i.e. an Amway pyramid) and in a job, every employee gets paid and has a net gain at the end of the month. Not true in Amway. If IBOs only use KATE for example, an IBO at 100 PV or less will already be at a loss, and that is not considering any other expenses that IBO may have. And while a job may have a corporate hierarchy, or chain of command, the business owner and CEO or manager earns their salary from customers, not directly from the pockets of their employees.
Some uplines will laugh about people's jobs, stating that they wake up at the "crack of noon". What these same uplines may not tell you is that they wake up at noon because they are up at 3:00 in the morning doing nite owls for their groups and looking for recruits. These same uplines possibly can't do much with their downlines during the weekdays since their downlines mostly tend to have 9-5 jobs. So a diamond's job is basically working the night shift and weekends.
So if you are of the opinion that nobody should criticize the Amway opportunity or IBO behavior, maybe uplines and IBOs should not criticize family and friends who disagree with or are not interested in the opportunity, and maybe the same uplines and IBOs should not criticize people who choose to work jobs. Don't most IBOs rely on their jobs as their Amway income is not sufficient to even pay for their Amway business related expenses?
Friday, August 24, 2018
Why I Dislike Amway
Once upon a time I was an Amway IBO. This was back in the 1990's. My first brush with Amway was being invited to a "beer bust" while I was in college. I remember showing up to the party only to see my friends in te house wearing suits and with a white board set up. I recall thinking WTF?? Anyway, so as to not be rude to our friends, I stayed and saw the plan and left afterwards thinking what a dirty trick it was to invite us to a beer party to show us the plan. It sucked.
Some years later an old friend of mine contacted me and wanted to explain a business proposition to me. He showed me the Amway plan and of course, I only had a bad experience with it. I told my friend to call me later if he actually makes any money off it. About a year and a half later, my friend calls me and tells me he is now a platinum. So it got my interest as he said it was not hard and he could easily guide me to do the same. So I bit an joined. I actually moved up the ranks, reaching the 4000 PV level. But I also realized that moving up was exciting but my net profit was still practically zero. And along with zero profit, my upline expectations went up. I was supposed to "submit" and do what they say. And there were extra meetings and functions.
That's when I realized that the whole game is a scam. Yeah, I figured that the diamonds had it good, but for everyone else, it was a scam. Sure, you can out gain your sponsor and sometimes, a person even breaks through and goes diamond. But it's quite rare and people who achieve diamond can easily lose it, as evidenced by all the former diamonds.
But what I realized that for the rank and file and even the platinums, it's a scam. You are basically selling false hopes and dreams. You get some young and motivated people to join but the reality is that an excess of 99% of them will fail and most of t hem wll lose money, some lose significant money. But for most, they never even had a chance when they signed up. That's because to perpetuate the scam, prospects are told only the best case scenario and not what's likely. They aren't told that most people do nothing or that most cannot sponsor anyone. Products are difficult to sell and that a neutral price comparison would be damaging to Amway.
Instead, we were told to be open minded, don't talk to family and friends abut the Amway opportunity, listen only to upline (who have a conflict of interest), and to never quit. This is all great advice for the upline diamonds who greatly benefit from this advice. Especially since they profit from almost everything you do. They tell you lies about being a nicer person or strengthening your marriage through Amway but once you are signed up, it's rarely about how much money you are making. They want you to enjoy riches vicariously by living your upline's dreams. They often think their diamond walks on water when in reality, they are just lying and deceiving downline in order to sell they tools and functions.
Your diamonds might be living their dreams, but they do so by taking advantage of their downline while pretending to be their trusted advisors and mentors. And that's one of many reasons why I dislike Amway.
Some years later an old friend of mine contacted me and wanted to explain a business proposition to me. He showed me the Amway plan and of course, I only had a bad experience with it. I told my friend to call me later if he actually makes any money off it. About a year and a half later, my friend calls me and tells me he is now a platinum. So it got my interest as he said it was not hard and he could easily guide me to do the same. So I bit an joined. I actually moved up the ranks, reaching the 4000 PV level. But I also realized that moving up was exciting but my net profit was still practically zero. And along with zero profit, my upline expectations went up. I was supposed to "submit" and do what they say. And there were extra meetings and functions.
That's when I realized that the whole game is a scam. Yeah, I figured that the diamonds had it good, but for everyone else, it was a scam. Sure, you can out gain your sponsor and sometimes, a person even breaks through and goes diamond. But it's quite rare and people who achieve diamond can easily lose it, as evidenced by all the former diamonds.
But what I realized that for the rank and file and even the platinums, it's a scam. You are basically selling false hopes and dreams. You get some young and motivated people to join but the reality is that an excess of 99% of them will fail and most of t hem wll lose money, some lose significant money. But for most, they never even had a chance when they signed up. That's because to perpetuate the scam, prospects are told only the best case scenario and not what's likely. They aren't told that most people do nothing or that most cannot sponsor anyone. Products are difficult to sell and that a neutral price comparison would be damaging to Amway.
Instead, we were told to be open minded, don't talk to family and friends abut the Amway opportunity, listen only to upline (who have a conflict of interest), and to never quit. This is all great advice for the upline diamonds who greatly benefit from this advice. Especially since they profit from almost everything you do. They tell you lies about being a nicer person or strengthening your marriage through Amway but once you are signed up, it's rarely about how much money you are making. They want you to enjoy riches vicariously by living your upline's dreams. They often think their diamond walks on water when in reality, they are just lying and deceiving downline in order to sell they tools and functions.
Your diamonds might be living their dreams, but they do so by taking advantage of their downline while pretending to be their trusted advisors and mentors. And that's one of many reasons why I dislike Amway.
Wednesday, August 22, 2018
Investing In Your Amway Business?
One of the things that many Amway IBOs do is to purchase cds, books, voicemail, websites, seminar tickets, etc. These materials are supposed be an "investment" to help an IBO to succeed. But it's apparent to me that the people who sell these materials are far more successful than those who use them. What makes these materials potentially harmful to an IBO's resources is that many IBOs are told that these "tools" are an "investment" into their business. I believe that these tools are simply a drain on an IBO's bank account and not truly an investment. An investment into your business should be for something that helps to grow your business. For example, advertising can be a useful investment as it gets information out to your potential customers and to create product awareness.
If you owned a tradional business, you would have to come up with a lot more money than you would need for opening an Amway business. That is true, but a traditional business will likely come with a building and possibly some real estate and/or equipment. This is a tangible investment. If your business doesn't work out, you can still sell the land and/or building and equipment, or transfer the lease to another business owner and recoup some of your initial investment. Contrast this with former IBOs who end up selling their Amway tools on ebay or craigslist for pennies on the dollar. I'm not even sure they have any takers. People claim you can sell you business, but there is a cumbersome process involved, which includes offering your Amway business upline. But why would upline purchase your Amway business? Your upline would inherit your Amway business if you left Amway.
Also, in a traditional business, you may have to make other "investments" such as perhaps purchasing a company van or other equipment that will help your business to be efficient and/or to move product. These materials, while they may depreciate, still carry value and can be liquidated if your business is sold. What can an IBO sell to offset losses if they stop their Amway business? Sell their white board and easel I suppose, or they can try to sell their excess inventory if any, but generally, an IBO's business doesn't gain any equity. You don't own your downline. You don't own anything really, except your spot in the Amway hierarchy, which is basically worthless.
The way I see it, the purchase of tools is an investment. An investment into your upline's business. The more you purchase, the more your upline prospers. And the cherry on the sundae is that your upline advises you to purchase tools because they have your "best interest at heart". More like your upline has their own best interest at heart.
Think about this with an open mind and you will see what I see.
If you owned a tradional business, you would have to come up with a lot more money than you would need for opening an Amway business. That is true, but a traditional business will likely come with a building and possibly some real estate and/or equipment. This is a tangible investment. If your business doesn't work out, you can still sell the land and/or building and equipment, or transfer the lease to another business owner and recoup some of your initial investment. Contrast this with former IBOs who end up selling their Amway tools on ebay or craigslist for pennies on the dollar. I'm not even sure they have any takers. People claim you can sell you business, but there is a cumbersome process involved, which includes offering your Amway business upline. But why would upline purchase your Amway business? Your upline would inherit your Amway business if you left Amway.
Also, in a traditional business, you may have to make other "investments" such as perhaps purchasing a company van or other equipment that will help your business to be efficient and/or to move product. These materials, while they may depreciate, still carry value and can be liquidated if your business is sold. What can an IBO sell to offset losses if they stop their Amway business? Sell their white board and easel I suppose, or they can try to sell their excess inventory if any, but generally, an IBO's business doesn't gain any equity. You don't own your downline. You don't own anything really, except your spot in the Amway hierarchy, which is basically worthless.
The way I see it, the purchase of tools is an investment. An investment into your upline's business. The more you purchase, the more your upline prospers. And the cherry on the sundae is that your upline advises you to purchase tools because they have your "best interest at heart". More like your upline has their own best interest at heart.
Think about this with an open mind and you will see what I see.
Tuesday, August 21, 2018
Early Retirement Because Of Amway?
One of the humorous things I read is when a Amway IBO says he or she is 19 years old and will be "retired" at the age of 24 because of the Amway business. I personally don't know of anyone who has retired primarily on residual Amway income, as many seem to claim. I am not suggesting that nobody has ever done this, but I suspect that there are so few people who may have done it that it is not noteworthy. Even the Crown Ambassadors appear to not only be working, but have very busy schedules where they are constantly on the run. In recent years, some crown ambassadors have passed away while still on the job. Why don't we see any Amway retirees? I know retired teachers, police, fire fighters and such. I don't know of any Amway retirees.
The poor retention rate of IBOs would suggest that even a sizable Amway business could fall apart rather quickly without a constant replacement of IBOs. It is for this reason that I suspect that Amway folks never retire. They need to keep working or their businesses will fall apart. If you are a diamond, one downline platinum falling out of qualification could drop you to emerald status. Diamonds are not forever, especially in Amway. They may carry the diamond pin, and could be speaking at functions, but they might be a former diamond with a small downline group.
I ask this of IBOs. Is your upline diamond, or someone in between you and the diamond retired because of (primarily) Amway income? Do you as an IBO have a projected date when you will "walk away" from the business and retire? When I was an IBO, I always wondered why nobody "walked away" from their business after they went diamond. I believe the answer is crystal clear. Because IBO turnover is so high, if a diamond were to walk away from the business, he would probably fall out of qualification in less than a year. The bonuses would disappear and the diamond would probably have to look for a job. There are many examples of diamonds who have quit, and in some cases, went back to work.
Many unsuspecting prospects may be lured into the Amway business with the hope of an early retirement. Amway recruiters may mention that control of time and money is the key to success, but ironically, for most who sign up, will end up with less time and money than if they did not join at all. For many people. especially young people, it might be a good idea to seek financial advice from a professional and to make long term investment goals. Am investment of about $200 a month can net you close to a million bucks after 30 to 40 years.
Yes, there may be "some" people who retired early due to (primarily) Amway income. But I don't know any. And not a single Amway defender has ever been able to name one. It reminds me of bigfoot/sasquatch. Many reports and allegations are there that these creatures exist but there is no real evidence to support that such a creature actually exists.
The poor retention rate of IBOs would suggest that even a sizable Amway business could fall apart rather quickly without a constant replacement of IBOs. It is for this reason that I suspect that Amway folks never retire. They need to keep working or their businesses will fall apart. If you are a diamond, one downline platinum falling out of qualification could drop you to emerald status. Diamonds are not forever, especially in Amway. They may carry the diamond pin, and could be speaking at functions, but they might be a former diamond with a small downline group.
I ask this of IBOs. Is your upline diamond, or someone in between you and the diamond retired because of (primarily) Amway income? Do you as an IBO have a projected date when you will "walk away" from the business and retire? When I was an IBO, I always wondered why nobody "walked away" from their business after they went diamond. I believe the answer is crystal clear. Because IBO turnover is so high, if a diamond were to walk away from the business, he would probably fall out of qualification in less than a year. The bonuses would disappear and the diamond would probably have to look for a job. There are many examples of diamonds who have quit, and in some cases, went back to work.
Many unsuspecting prospects may be lured into the Amway business with the hope of an early retirement. Amway recruiters may mention that control of time and money is the key to success, but ironically, for most who sign up, will end up with less time and money than if they did not join at all. For many people. especially young people, it might be a good idea to seek financial advice from a professional and to make long term investment goals. Am investment of about $200 a month can net you close to a million bucks after 30 to 40 years.
Yes, there may be "some" people who retired early due to (primarily) Amway income. But I don't know any. And not a single Amway defender has ever been able to name one. It reminds me of bigfoot/sasquatch. Many reports and allegations are there that these creatures exist but there is no real evidence to support that such a creature actually exists.
Monday, August 20, 2018
The "Business" Mentality?
One of the things Amway IBOs "think" they possess, but in reality they are far from it, is "Business Mentality". It is not necessarily the fault of the IBOs. Many are sponsored into Amway by trusted friends or family lacking business experience. They will "submit" to upline as they are advised and will try to learn about the Amway business. The problem is that many upline leaders teach self serving business practices such as hard core dedication to their tools system, from which they often handsomely profit. Let's examine some of the questionable practices.
"Buy from yourself". If you have a business owner mentality, you only buy from yourself if it's beneficial to your business. Many IBOs talk about ridiculous things like a McDonald's owner would never eat at Burger King. That's totally false. Just because I own a McDonald's doesn't mean I am eating Big Macs the rest of my life. You cannot spend yourself to prosperity. If I sold pens for $1.00 and my cost was .50, and my competitor had a special on the same pens at 3 for $1.00, I'm buying them from my competition. Also, buying from yourself makes you a customer, not a business owner. This is something that Amway IBOs seem to miss. That buying from Amway makes you an Amway customer and nothing else.
"Ignore facts if you have a dream". This is probably the biggest heap of bull taught by some Amway uplines. I have seen this spouted in particular by IBOs downline from WWDB and BWW leaders. A business owner studies the facts, not ignores them. Any REAL business owner wants to know how much he is bringing in and how much is going out. That's how you detect the heartbeat of your business. A site visitor named Gina on this site, posted a profit/loss statement from her real business. Naturally, IBOs were at a loss to discuss it because it was foreign material to them.
"Submit to upline" Another load of hogwash. Why should someone submit to upline simply because they "sponsored me" or whatever? A real business owner would think independently and make business decisions based on facts and numbers, not on the advice of someone upline who hasn't taken the time to assess each IBO on a personal level to be able to give advice on an IBO's "Indepdendent Business", or worse, advice on their personal lives".
"Dedication to the system". Silly advice as well. What dedication does the system have for an IBO? If an IBO succeeds (which is very rare), the system takes credit, but for the more than 99% of people who never make a significant income, it is their own fault if they don't make it. Amway apologists will defend this by saying that many may not have signed up wanting a significant income. While that may be partially true, tell me where people show "plans" designed for the guy who wants an extra $100 a month? The plans shown are always (AFAIK) to go platinum or diamond.
IBOs and information seekers, does any of this sound familiar? Is this a part of your experience? If so, I encourage you to ask questions here and get more information before proceeding with any more "business" activity.
"Buy from yourself". If you have a business owner mentality, you only buy from yourself if it's beneficial to your business. Many IBOs talk about ridiculous things like a McDonald's owner would never eat at Burger King. That's totally false. Just because I own a McDonald's doesn't mean I am eating Big Macs the rest of my life. You cannot spend yourself to prosperity. If I sold pens for $1.00 and my cost was .50, and my competitor had a special on the same pens at 3 for $1.00, I'm buying them from my competition. Also, buying from yourself makes you a customer, not a business owner. This is something that Amway IBOs seem to miss. That buying from Amway makes you an Amway customer and nothing else.
"Ignore facts if you have a dream". This is probably the biggest heap of bull taught by some Amway uplines. I have seen this spouted in particular by IBOs downline from WWDB and BWW leaders. A business owner studies the facts, not ignores them. Any REAL business owner wants to know how much he is bringing in and how much is going out. That's how you detect the heartbeat of your business. A site visitor named Gina on this site, posted a profit/loss statement from her real business. Naturally, IBOs were at a loss to discuss it because it was foreign material to them.
"Submit to upline" Another load of hogwash. Why should someone submit to upline simply because they "sponsored me" or whatever? A real business owner would think independently and make business decisions based on facts and numbers, not on the advice of someone upline who hasn't taken the time to assess each IBO on a personal level to be able to give advice on an IBO's "Indepdendent Business", or worse, advice on their personal lives".
"Dedication to the system". Silly advice as well. What dedication does the system have for an IBO? If an IBO succeeds (which is very rare), the system takes credit, but for the more than 99% of people who never make a significant income, it is their own fault if they don't make it. Amway apologists will defend this by saying that many may not have signed up wanting a significant income. While that may be partially true, tell me where people show "plans" designed for the guy who wants an extra $100 a month? The plans shown are always (AFAIK) to go platinum or diamond.
IBOs and information seekers, does any of this sound familiar? Is this a part of your experience? If so, I encourage you to ask questions here and get more information before proceeding with any more "business" activity.
Friday, August 17, 2018
Does Anything Ever Change In Amway?
I was first recruited for Amway in 1985 or so. I was a senior in college and I was invited to a "beer bust". Imagine how weird it was to arrive at a beer bust to see my friend (who invited me and others) in a suit and pitching Amway to us. (Where was the damn beer?). So we got tricked into a meeting but we stayed to hear them out. We left and winded up going to buy beer. LOL.
My friends and I spoke about whether Amway could actually work an we concluded that selling stuff would be a difficult challenge that we may not be able to overcome.
We saw the 2-5 year plan and we saw the possibility of retiring young and "walking away" and living high on the hog for years to come. Back then, we saw picture of checks that Toshio Taba had received. (He has since passed away). We wondered if there was a niche market where some Amway products could be sold and profits could be made. We came to the conclusion that Amway products are too expensive to be competetive and we passed on the opportunity. The friend who invited us, of course told us he was going to be rich and would not be available to hang out with us. He quit 2 months later and rejoined our group of friends.
When I later saw the plan again, a friend of mine had joined Amway and had some level of success. He assured me that Amway was "easy" and that I could achieve the same success if I followed him. But it's not true. Even though I attained a level in Amway (4000 PV), I made no net profit. I suspect my sponsor, even at "direct" or platinum (now) made not net profit because of the expenses associated with being a platinum. (Extra travel, functions and costs to service downline). The concept that reaching a level will bring profits was a lie because "upline" advised that you should spend all profits and reinvest into the "system". Thus any profits were channeled upline in the form of tool purchases.
When I engage with current Amway IBOs and prospects, I honestly see no difference in the teaching that is espoused. The same old tired diamonds are stll around. Sure, there are a few new diamonds but the old ones who disappeared are greater in number than the new ones. If the system worked, wouldn't new diamonds be coming out of the system regularly? Apparently not. Hasn't anyone figured out that diamonds work until they pass? The Duncans and Wolgamott, Tsurudas and Harimoto have been diamonds for 20 - 30 years. If they were good teachersm where is the fruit on their tree? The tree is bare.
My friends and I spoke about whether Amway could actually work an we concluded that selling stuff would be a difficult challenge that we may not be able to overcome.
We saw the 2-5 year plan and we saw the possibility of retiring young and "walking away" and living high on the hog for years to come. Back then, we saw picture of checks that Toshio Taba had received. (He has since passed away). We wondered if there was a niche market where some Amway products could be sold and profits could be made. We came to the conclusion that Amway products are too expensive to be competetive and we passed on the opportunity. The friend who invited us, of course told us he was going to be rich and would not be available to hang out with us. He quit 2 months later and rejoined our group of friends.
When I later saw the plan again, a friend of mine had joined Amway and had some level of success. He assured me that Amway was "easy" and that I could achieve the same success if I followed him. But it's not true. Even though I attained a level in Amway (4000 PV), I made no net profit. I suspect my sponsor, even at "direct" or platinum (now) made not net profit because of the expenses associated with being a platinum. (Extra travel, functions and costs to service downline). The concept that reaching a level will bring profits was a lie because "upline" advised that you should spend all profits and reinvest into the "system". Thus any profits were channeled upline in the form of tool purchases.
When I engage with current Amway IBOs and prospects, I honestly see no difference in the teaching that is espoused. The same old tired diamonds are stll around. Sure, there are a few new diamonds but the old ones who disappeared are greater in number than the new ones. If the system worked, wouldn't new diamonds be coming out of the system regularly? Apparently not. Hasn't anyone figured out that diamonds work until they pass? The Duncans and Wolgamott, Tsurudas and Harimoto have been diamonds for 20 - 30 years. If they were good teachersm where is the fruit on their tree? The tree is bare.
Wednesday, August 15, 2018
What Is A Real Business Owner?
Many folks involved with Amway call themselves "Independent Business Owners", or IBOs for short. The idea of "owning a business" sounds pretty cool, and is a selling point in recruiting new people. But in a business that touts itself and being so simply, why don't more people actually make a profit? Even some avid Amway supporters understand that most dedicated IBOs suffer a loss, primarily due to system expenses, but they dismiss the failure by saying these IBOs did not work hard enough, quit too soon, or did not take their business seriously enough.
A business exists to make a profit, period. There is no other reason to run a business. Sadly, many uplines do not teach IBOs to be profitable business owners. Instead, these uplines teach dedication to the business and to the teaching system rather than teaching IBOs to be profitable business owners. Ironically, the teaching system is disguised as a success system that is practically guaranteed to lead you to wealth. Ironically, the system in it's simplest form, simply transfers money from downline to upline. The uplines profit from the system, thus the uplines can make a nice profit whether anyone downline succeeds or not. Although uplines will say they want you to succeed, I don't think they give a rat's ass about downline success. It's more profitable for certain upline if people keep joining and quitting, as long as the standing orders get sold and there are butts in the seats at functions. If you stop and think about this for a moment, you can see that it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.
So as a business owner, are you making business decisions with regards to expenditures? And are you assessing the worth of these expenditures? For example, if your monthly income from Amway is $25, is there enough value in attending a major function which might cost several hundreds of dollars (if out of town)? Say a major function costs $500 with airfare and hotel included. Is it worth 20 months worth of your business income to attend? If you say the function is worth the expense, then you should ask yourself what direct benefit your business received by your attendance. If your voicemail expenses exceed your monthly Amway income, how long do you stay committed to such an expenditure? Does your standing order expenses exceed your monthly Amway income? Are your expenses exceeding your income month after month? If so, as a business owner, you need to assess these expense and perhaps cut or reduce these expenses.
The bottom line is how did the function or standing order result in an increase is sales and revenue for your business? If you did not gain any business or sponsor a bunch of new downline, what is going to change that will make you business any better? Insanity is doing the same old thing and expecting different results.
Are you consistently driving more traffic to your website to generate sales? If you are not gaining more customers month after month, how do you expect to generate income? Do your uplines teach you how to drive traffic to your websites? These questions and examples are only meant to be though provoking for new and established IBOs. I have seen too many IBOs rack up tremendous debt by following the system without looking at their expenses with a critical eye.
A business exists to make a profit, period. There is no other reason to run a business. Sadly, many uplines do not teach IBOs to be profitable business owners. Instead, these uplines teach dedication to the business and to the teaching system rather than teaching IBOs to be profitable business owners. Ironically, the teaching system is disguised as a success system that is practically guaranteed to lead you to wealth. Ironically, the system in it's simplest form, simply transfers money from downline to upline. The uplines profit from the system, thus the uplines can make a nice profit whether anyone downline succeeds or not. Although uplines will say they want you to succeed, I don't think they give a rat's ass about downline success. It's more profitable for certain upline if people keep joining and quitting, as long as the standing orders get sold and there are butts in the seats at functions. If you stop and think about this for a moment, you can see that it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.
So as a business owner, are you making business decisions with regards to expenditures? And are you assessing the worth of these expenditures? For example, if your monthly income from Amway is $25, is there enough value in attending a major function which might cost several hundreds of dollars (if out of town)? Say a major function costs $500 with airfare and hotel included. Is it worth 20 months worth of your business income to attend? If you say the function is worth the expense, then you should ask yourself what direct benefit your business received by your attendance. If your voicemail expenses exceed your monthly Amway income, how long do you stay committed to such an expenditure? Does your standing order expenses exceed your monthly Amway income? Are your expenses exceeding your income month after month? If so, as a business owner, you need to assess these expense and perhaps cut or reduce these expenses.
The bottom line is how did the function or standing order result in an increase is sales and revenue for your business? If you did not gain any business or sponsor a bunch of new downline, what is going to change that will make you business any better? Insanity is doing the same old thing and expecting different results.
Are you consistently driving more traffic to your website to generate sales? If you are not gaining more customers month after month, how do you expect to generate income? Do your uplines teach you how to drive traffic to your websites? These questions and examples are only meant to be though provoking for new and established IBOs. I have seen too many IBOs rack up tremendous debt by following the system without looking at their expenses with a critical eye.
Tuesday, August 14, 2018
Working Hard In Amway?
One of the things that many Amway defenders will cite is that the people who don't succeed didn't work hard enough or didn't put in enough effort. While I agree that one must work hard to succeed in many endeavors, I will also state my informed opinion that working hard and success in Amway is not related. I say this because I have seen so many testimonies of people who worked the Amway business hard and achieved little or no results. With Amway's miniscule success rate, I cannot believe that it is simply a lack of effort on people's part. Amway's low success rate seems to be systemic.
Part of the problem is that many uplines emphasize recruiting as their focus, even though there is no direct compensation for doing so. In fact, recruiting downline often comes with much expenses such as gas, babysitters, and the false belief that an IBO needs standing orders and seminars to learn this. Also, Amway has a spotty reputation in the US, thus making recruiting potential downline a very difficult task. Even finding someone willing to see the Amway plan can prove to be a daunting task. Think about it. People often can do most of the "core" steps that are supposed to be the key to Amway success. But anyone can read a book daily or attend all the meetings. Where they cannot remain core is finding enough people to see the plan, let along sponsoring any downline.
An important part of any business is to find customers to buy your goods. Because IBOs already spend much of their time recruiting and not selling, they are already at a disadvantage over many other businesses. Add in the seemingly uncompetetive prices of Amway and Amway partner store products and you give IBOs yet another disadvantage over most other businesses. If there were better value in these goods and services, then IBOs who sell instead of recruit would be much more common. Also, the Amway compensation plan often rewards uplines rather than the IBOs who actually do the work of moving the volume. Basically, hard work is ineffective because the Amway business comes with too many handicaps for most people to overcome.
I also believe that the Amway business is so outdated and inefficient. While you may have a website to sell your goods, you have restrictions that severely limit the ability of an IBO to drive traffic to their website. The person to person touch may sound nice and flowery, but it is the most inefficient way to make sales. It is why people pay millions to advertise during the Superbowl, because you may have a hundred million people watching the adervtisement and can drive up your name recognition and sales.
While working hard is definitely important to succeeding in any venture, I don't believe there is any bonafide correlation that working hard equals success in the Amway business for the reasons I have outlined in this post.
Part of the problem is that many uplines emphasize recruiting as their focus, even though there is no direct compensation for doing so. In fact, recruiting downline often comes with much expenses such as gas, babysitters, and the false belief that an IBO needs standing orders and seminars to learn this. Also, Amway has a spotty reputation in the US, thus making recruiting potential downline a very difficult task. Even finding someone willing to see the Amway plan can prove to be a daunting task. Think about it. People often can do most of the "core" steps that are supposed to be the key to Amway success. But anyone can read a book daily or attend all the meetings. Where they cannot remain core is finding enough people to see the plan, let along sponsoring any downline.
An important part of any business is to find customers to buy your goods. Because IBOs already spend much of their time recruiting and not selling, they are already at a disadvantage over many other businesses. Add in the seemingly uncompetetive prices of Amway and Amway partner store products and you give IBOs yet another disadvantage over most other businesses. If there were better value in these goods and services, then IBOs who sell instead of recruit would be much more common. Also, the Amway compensation plan often rewards uplines rather than the IBOs who actually do the work of moving the volume. Basically, hard work is ineffective because the Amway business comes with too many handicaps for most people to overcome.
I also believe that the Amway business is so outdated and inefficient. While you may have a website to sell your goods, you have restrictions that severely limit the ability of an IBO to drive traffic to their website. The person to person touch may sound nice and flowery, but it is the most inefficient way to make sales. It is why people pay millions to advertise during the Superbowl, because you may have a hundred million people watching the adervtisement and can drive up your name recognition and sales.
While working hard is definitely important to succeeding in any venture, I don't believe there is any bonafide correlation that working hard equals success in the Amway business for the reasons I have outlined in this post.
Monday, August 13, 2018
Upline Accountability?
Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Many downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will then place the blame on the downline. Citing that they either did not try hard enough or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault.
In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people.
The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.
Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.
The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.
In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people.
The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.
Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.
The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.
Friday, August 10, 2018
Your Job Is A Pyramid?
One of ths things I take issue with is how Amway uplines will create an us versus them mentality in the business. Thus friends and family who care about you suddenly become "negative" and association with them should be limited or cut off completely. In some cases, people are discouraged from excellence in their jobs or professions because it takes the focus off of their Amway business. What I was told was to do my job, but my radar should always be on for new prospects. Some cross line IBOs turned down promotions at work because they did not want to have to work longer hours or take the focus off of their Amway businesses.
In some cases, the speaker at open meetings or functions will put down people's jobs. A commonly used acronym was J-O-B = "Just Over Broke". Some leaders also would say that my job was a pyramid because you will never earn more than the boss. A completely ridiculous comparison because someone's job has no relationship with how people view the Amway business (i.e. an Amway pyramid) and in a job, every employee gets paid and has a net gain at the end of the month. Not true in Amway. If IBOs only use KATE for example, an IBO at 100 PV or less will already be at a loss, and that is not considering any other expenses that IBO may have. And while a job may have a hierarchy, or chain of command, the business owner and CEO or manager earns their salary from customers, not directly from the pockets of their employees.
Some uplines will laugh about people's jobs, stating that they wake up at the "crack of noon". What these same uplines may not tell you is that they wake up at noon because they are up at 3:00 in the morning doing nite owls for their groups and looking for recruits. These same uplines possibly can't do much with their downlines since their downlines mostly tend to have 9-5 jobs. An Amway diamond still has a job, but they work the graveyard shift because the mainstream world works during the day. The part about waking up at the crack of noon is because your upline diamond has to sleep in since he's working the overnight shift.
So if you are of the opinion that nobody should criticize the Amway opportunity or IBO behavior, maybe uplines and IBOs should not criticize family and friends who disagree with or are not interested in the Amway opportunity. And maybe the same uplines and IBOs should not criticize people who choose to work jobs. Don't most IBOs rely on their jobs? More than likely their Amway income is not sufficient to even pay for their Amway business related expenses, let alone anything else. It is most often someone's job that winds up supporting their Amway business, which is truly ironic.
In some cases, the speaker at open meetings or functions will put down people's jobs. A commonly used acronym was J-O-B = "Just Over Broke". Some leaders also would say that my job was a pyramid because you will never earn more than the boss. A completely ridiculous comparison because someone's job has no relationship with how people view the Amway business (i.e. an Amway pyramid) and in a job, every employee gets paid and has a net gain at the end of the month. Not true in Amway. If IBOs only use KATE for example, an IBO at 100 PV or less will already be at a loss, and that is not considering any other expenses that IBO may have. And while a job may have a hierarchy, or chain of command, the business owner and CEO or manager earns their salary from customers, not directly from the pockets of their employees.
Some uplines will laugh about people's jobs, stating that they wake up at the "crack of noon". What these same uplines may not tell you is that they wake up at noon because they are up at 3:00 in the morning doing nite owls for their groups and looking for recruits. These same uplines possibly can't do much with their downlines since their downlines mostly tend to have 9-5 jobs. An Amway diamond still has a job, but they work the graveyard shift because the mainstream world works during the day. The part about waking up at the crack of noon is because your upline diamond has to sleep in since he's working the overnight shift.
So if you are of the opinion that nobody should criticize the Amway opportunity or IBO behavior, maybe uplines and IBOs should not criticize family and friends who disagree with or are not interested in the Amway opportunity. And maybe the same uplines and IBOs should not criticize people who choose to work jobs. Don't most IBOs rely on their jobs? More than likely their Amway income is not sufficient to even pay for their Amway business related expenses, let alone anything else. It is most often someone's job that winds up supporting their Amway business, which is truly ironic.
Thursday, August 9, 2018
Living On Amway Island?
Imagine an a city or island with 100 adult residents. One guy gets sponsored into Amway from a cousin in another area off the island. Well, the island residents are a pretty tight knit group so the one IBO immediately sponsors his six best friends and eventually, all 100 island residents. They are all dead serious about the Amway business so they all work hard, but because everyone is an IBO, they can only self consume 100 PV each. Thus the 100 IBOs move 10,000 PV each month. The group as a whole generates about 30,000 BV and the group receives $7500 in bonus money from Amway. Of course, the first IBO sponsored is now a platinum receiving most of that money with the rest of the group receiving smaller bonuses.
Being serious IBOs, they all get standing order, books of the month, and travel by air to functions. They pay on average about $250 a month for their Amway training/tools. Thus the group pays about $25,000 a month for the training that will one day allow them to retire and quit their jobs. The island community is losing a net of $17,500 ($25,0000 in expenses minus the $7500 in income generated from Amway) from their local economy each month. However, there is one resident IBO who is making a nice income urging everyone one. Let's evaluate the group.
The platinum IBO is making a nice income and will also receive a $20,000 bonus at the end of the year. His 6 downline friends make just about enough to break even (approximately 1000 PV) or lose a little. The rest of the residents have lost collectively, over $200,000 ($17,500 a month). The guy who owned the local grocery store went out of business and all the entertainment related business closed up because the residents had no disposable income to spend money on anything except for Amway related activities. Eventually they all quit, including the platinum because once his group quit, he too, began to lose money.
Now Amway defenders will cry that this could never happen, but it shows that even if you could get everyone in the US to join, this scenario is what would more than likely, happen. I believe the Amway name and reputation is for the most part, saturated in the US. Nearly everyone will have heard the Amway name and/or will know someone who had a brush with Amway. Because of the tool peddlers such as WWDB, BWW, or Network 21, there are likely millions of people in the US who ended up with a bad experience, perhaps tricked into attending a meeting, or lied to about something related to Amway.
While this story is fictional, it is what I believe would happen if there was a city/island where everyone joined the business. It is what happens today. Few people benefit at the expense of their downline. And as usual, it is the tools that drive people to lose money - on Amway island, or anywhere else.
Being serious IBOs, they all get standing order, books of the month, and travel by air to functions. They pay on average about $250 a month for their Amway training/tools. Thus the group pays about $25,000 a month for the training that will one day allow them to retire and quit their jobs. The island community is losing a net of $17,500 ($25,0000 in expenses minus the $7500 in income generated from Amway) from their local economy each month. However, there is one resident IBO who is making a nice income urging everyone one. Let's evaluate the group.
The platinum IBO is making a nice income and will also receive a $20,000 bonus at the end of the year. His 6 downline friends make just about enough to break even (approximately 1000 PV) or lose a little. The rest of the residents have lost collectively, over $200,000 ($17,500 a month). The guy who owned the local grocery store went out of business and all the entertainment related business closed up because the residents had no disposable income to spend money on anything except for Amway related activities. Eventually they all quit, including the platinum because once his group quit, he too, began to lose money.
Now Amway defenders will cry that this could never happen, but it shows that even if you could get everyone in the US to join, this scenario is what would more than likely, happen. I believe the Amway name and reputation is for the most part, saturated in the US. Nearly everyone will have heard the Amway name and/or will know someone who had a brush with Amway. Because of the tool peddlers such as WWDB, BWW, or Network 21, there are likely millions of people in the US who ended up with a bad experience, perhaps tricked into attending a meeting, or lied to about something related to Amway.
While this story is fictional, it is what I believe would happen if there was a city/island where everyone joined the business. It is what happens today. Few people benefit at the expense of their downline. And as usual, it is the tools that drive people to lose money - on Amway island, or anywhere else.
Tuesday, August 7, 2018
Negative Cash Flow?
One of the things I am hearing about right now by Amway supporters is the concept that Amway pays you to shop there. The problem with this statement is that many IBOs see this rebate but do not calculate the fact that you can still have a better bottom line simply by purchasing a product elsewhere. For example, if WalMart started some kind of cash rebate program, would you quit Amway and shop at WalMart?
Then when an Amway supporter is cornered with this information, they will switch gears and start to defend quality versus price. It's all very predictable.
Honest question for IBOs. Why do you use KATE instead of the Amway voicemail system? Amway pays you to shop there, your upline profits from and does not pay you to use KATE.
One of the biggest problems with especially new IBOs is they ignore negative cashflow. And I cannot really blame them. They are ususally sponsored by someone they trust and they are often taught to ignore facts or taught that they are investing in their business, just like a real business, even though when recruited, they are told little or ZERO risk. Thus an IBO who intends to make a profit will generally get set up with a website and some other materials. While the cost may not be exorbitant, these few materials already exceed a new IBO's income unless they actully go out and sell some goods or are able to sponsor downline who sell and buy products. And the more dedicated an IBO is, the greater the chance is that the IBO's negative cashflow will be larger. When you start to add in standing order and functions, the cashflow gets more and more negative and there are many testimonies of massive debts built up by IBOs in a few years or less.
What's ironic is that many IBOs incur these debts at the advice of their upline, or if you will, "mentors". Many uplines will teach IBOs to "never quit". It is my guess that uplines will make blanket statements like never quit without knowing an IBOs circumstance. Just as a statement like you "need" to attend a certain certain function, or you need standing order. No assessment of an IBO's business or personal circumstances. It appears that uplines are simply interested in making a sale for their BSM business. You may ask why should a diamond assess a downline's business before issuing these statements. I ask why should downline call them "mentors". In the meantime these downline suffer negative cashflow from their Amway business. Ironically, some upline teaches that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". Attending functions and listening to standing orders while losing money each month is that same insanity.
Then when an Amway supporter is cornered with this information, they will switch gears and start to defend quality versus price. It's all very predictable.
Honest question for IBOs. Why do you use KATE instead of the Amway voicemail system? Amway pays you to shop there, your upline profits from and does not pay you to use KATE.
One of the biggest problems with especially new IBOs is they ignore negative cashflow. And I cannot really blame them. They are ususally sponsored by someone they trust and they are often taught to ignore facts or taught that they are investing in their business, just like a real business, even though when recruited, they are told little or ZERO risk. Thus an IBO who intends to make a profit will generally get set up with a website and some other materials. While the cost may not be exorbitant, these few materials already exceed a new IBO's income unless they actully go out and sell some goods or are able to sponsor downline who sell and buy products. And the more dedicated an IBO is, the greater the chance is that the IBO's negative cashflow will be larger. When you start to add in standing order and functions, the cashflow gets more and more negative and there are many testimonies of massive debts built up by IBOs in a few years or less.
What's ironic is that many IBOs incur these debts at the advice of their upline, or if you will, "mentors". Many uplines will teach IBOs to "never quit". It is my guess that uplines will make blanket statements like never quit without knowing an IBOs circumstance. Just as a statement like you "need" to attend a certain certain function, or you need standing order. No assessment of an IBO's business or personal circumstances. It appears that uplines are simply interested in making a sale for their BSM business. You may ask why should a diamond assess a downline's business before issuing these statements. I ask why should downline call them "mentors". In the meantime these downline suffer negative cashflow from their Amway business. Ironically, some upline teaches that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". Attending functions and listening to standing orders while losing money each month is that same insanity.
Monday, August 6, 2018
The Psychology Used By Amway Leaders?
The Psychology Behind The Presentation
I’m not sure whether this plan was carefully crafted out or whether it just evolved, but the way some uplines show the plan is cleverly designed to suck people into their systems. If you aren’t aware or careful, it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of the presentation. The presentation is full of deception and I will try to point out these items in my analysis.
The speaker may talk about how he once thought he was “doing okay” in life. That he was making a living and able to meet his financial obligations. But he thought there might be more. One day he saw the plan and it changed his life. He did not realize he had gotten into a rut of going to work and going home every day and looking forward to his 2 weeks off each year. (This is relatable for many) That time and money are so important in life. Control of time and money is the key to success. Many people have lots of money but work all day and nite. Or people have time but are broke and can’t do much. The speaker might mention dreams or goals such as having an extra $500 a month or more. What would you do for an extra $500 a month. What about an extra $50,000 a year? Wouldn’t it be nice to have the wife stay home with the kids instead of leaving the family to go to work? Like the “Leave it to Beaver” days? (This gets the women excited)
The speaker will likely mention something about the economy and how prices always go up. The speaker may mention the 4 “I’s” that suck money out of your paycheck. The four I’s are Interest, Income Tax, Insurance and Inflation. The speaker may talk about how the government will take their cut and so on until you get your “net”. The speaker may mention how so many Americans are dead or broke by age 65, and that social security will collapse. (This instills fear in many people).
The speaker might also go on to mention how so many marriages are falling apart in the US because of financial stress. That couples work so hard that they have no family time and it hurts marriages. That people work so many hours these days that they are married to their desks. The “manager” of the office is the first one there and the last one to go home. That despite all of this work and effort, people are falling into debt. Credit cards maxed out, loans, trying to keep up with the Joneses. (Many people can relate to this)
But now, because he was looking for opportunity/open minded one day, he saw an opportunity. This opportunity changed his life and can do the same for you! The speaker now wakes up at the crack of noon. His wife stays home with him and the kids. They take nice vacations and they do what they want when they want. (Of course, who doesn’t? But is this true?) The opportunity takes advantage of the internet and allows you to leverage your time and money so that you can create a residual walk away income. (But nobody walks away do they?)
This is approximately the point in the presentation where they mention “Amway” At this point, the speaker will defend Amway, stating that if you can make money, does it matter.? If you can save money, does it matter? The speaker may go into the product line and mention partner stores and will likely show a 6-4-2 plan or a variation of it. In every case, they will show a best case scenario, not what is likely. Many prospects will leave thinking “all I need is six”. They don’t understand how unlikely it is to sponsor six platinums and there is no mention of the retention rates, the income most IBOs can expect, and firm questions will be deflected to the prospect’s inviter. The speaker may also discourage you from speaking to friends and family as they may have a bad experience but the diamond is successful and knows more about Amway than your family and friends.
Joe’s commentary: So the speaker becomes very relatable from the start. His situation in life will be like many in the audience. He will talk about doing okay,. But wanting more or looking for more. He talks about debts and many in the audience will also relate. They get people to think about dream cars or vacations. He talks about walk away income, but doesn’t mention that very very few ever make significant money and apparently, not many actually walk away either. They say you will make money and save money by doing the business. It’s hard to argue against that,.except most people will not make money or save money. In fact most people, if they participate fully or partially in the training system, they will lose money. For the dedicated IBOs, many of them LOSE LOTS OF MONEY. The plan is crafted out to sound sensible and relatable, but many IBOs will give it a try and shortly after, will realize that the system doesn’t work, that the reputation of Amway IBOs is soiled and sponsoring people or even getting people to see the plan is a barrier that most people simply cannot overcome. At least if you know what’s going on, you may be able to avoid the trap.
I’m not sure whether this plan was carefully crafted out or whether it just evolved, but the way some uplines show the plan is cleverly designed to suck people into their systems. If you aren’t aware or careful, it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of the presentation. The presentation is full of deception and I will try to point out these items in my analysis.
The speaker may talk about how he once thought he was “doing okay” in life. That he was making a living and able to meet his financial obligations. But he thought there might be more. One day he saw the plan and it changed his life. He did not realize he had gotten into a rut of going to work and going home every day and looking forward to his 2 weeks off each year. (This is relatable for many) That time and money are so important in life. Control of time and money is the key to success. Many people have lots of money but work all day and nite. Or people have time but are broke and can’t do much. The speaker might mention dreams or goals such as having an extra $500 a month or more. What would you do for an extra $500 a month. What about an extra $50,000 a year? Wouldn’t it be nice to have the wife stay home with the kids instead of leaving the family to go to work? Like the “Leave it to Beaver” days? (This gets the women excited)
The speaker will likely mention something about the economy and how prices always go up. The speaker may mention the 4 “I’s” that suck money out of your paycheck. The four I’s are Interest, Income Tax, Insurance and Inflation. The speaker may talk about how the government will take their cut and so on until you get your “net”. The speaker may mention how so many Americans are dead or broke by age 65, and that social security will collapse. (This instills fear in many people).
The speaker might also go on to mention how so many marriages are falling apart in the US because of financial stress. That couples work so hard that they have no family time and it hurts marriages. That people work so many hours these days that they are married to their desks. The “manager” of the office is the first one there and the last one to go home. That despite all of this work and effort, people are falling into debt. Credit cards maxed out, loans, trying to keep up with the Joneses. (Many people can relate to this)
But now, because he was looking for opportunity/open minded one day, he saw an opportunity. This opportunity changed his life and can do the same for you! The speaker now wakes up at the crack of noon. His wife stays home with him and the kids. They take nice vacations and they do what they want when they want. (Of course, who doesn’t? But is this true?) The opportunity takes advantage of the internet and allows you to leverage your time and money so that you can create a residual walk away income. (But nobody walks away do they?)
This is approximately the point in the presentation where they mention “Amway” At this point, the speaker will defend Amway, stating that if you can make money, does it matter.? If you can save money, does it matter? The speaker may go into the product line and mention partner stores and will likely show a 6-4-2 plan or a variation of it. In every case, they will show a best case scenario, not what is likely. Many prospects will leave thinking “all I need is six”. They don’t understand how unlikely it is to sponsor six platinums and there is no mention of the retention rates, the income most IBOs can expect, and firm questions will be deflected to the prospect’s inviter. The speaker may also discourage you from speaking to friends and family as they may have a bad experience but the diamond is successful and knows more about Amway than your family and friends.
Joe’s commentary: So the speaker becomes very relatable from the start. His situation in life will be like many in the audience. He will talk about doing okay,. But wanting more or looking for more. He talks about debts and many in the audience will also relate. They get people to think about dream cars or vacations. He talks about walk away income, but doesn’t mention that very very few ever make significant money and apparently, not many actually walk away either. They say you will make money and save money by doing the business. It’s hard to argue against that,.except most people will not make money or save money. In fact most people, if they participate fully or partially in the training system, they will lose money. For the dedicated IBOs, many of them LOSE LOTS OF MONEY. The plan is crafted out to sound sensible and relatable, but many IBOs will give it a try and shortly after, will realize that the system doesn’t work, that the reputation of Amway IBOs is soiled and sponsoring people or even getting people to see the plan is a barrier that most people simply cannot overcome. At least if you know what’s going on, you may be able to avoid the trap.
Thursday, August 2, 2018
Amway And Accountability?
Part of what Joecool perceives as the problem with the Amway opportunity is the utter lack of accountability of some upline leaders. They may tell you to trust them, to submit to them and simply copy or duplicate what they have done, and they imply that you will get the same results. Possibly millions of downlines over the years have put in blood sweat and tears into the business only to suffer massive losses following the system. Upline will take credit for meager success, but place the blame on the downline when success is not there. Upline will claim that they either did not try hard enough, were not teachable enough, or they didn't put in enough time and effort. Despite a shockingly low success rate of system IBOs, nobody seems to fault the system as being flawed. And nobody seems to question whether upline is at fault. I believe it's obvious that the system and the upline advice is severely flawed.
In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.
The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.
Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.
The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.
In my observations, I would say that many financial systems are similar. Whether it be BWW, N21, WWDB, real estate gurus or other systems, the success rate is extremely low. Many systems that advertise on television will have a disclaimer that a success testimony is a rare or unique experience. I believe it is similar to the systems in Amway. Dedication or continued spending on the system is not the problem. The problem is often the system itself. It can work for some exceptional people. These people were likely to succeed in other venues anyway. The problem is that is does not work for the majority of people. People who succeed in Amway likely succeed in spite of the system and not because of it.
The bigger problem, is that for many many years, some uplines have lived high on the hog off of the dedicated tool purchases of their downline. All the while, quesitonable or bad advice was given to the faithful downline. Advice such as quitting a job to attend a function, skipping financial obligations such as the rent or electric bills to buy more tools. One upline even said your family can skip a meal because the standing order may contain the one thing you needed to hear to make your business grow. I have personally seen couples lose their homes and go bankrupt because they followed upline advice. Upline to "has their best interest at heart". Granted, the couple has some culpability in these decisions, but uplines who give this advice seem to get a pass.
Where is the accountability? Some of these uplines who give and gave bad advice, are still active today, and some are still giving bad advice to their downlines. Advice that profits upline and drains downline. Even with valid complaints, it appears that many uplines avoid any accountability. For some, perhaps there is poetic justice, such as diamonds having their homes foreclosed. But as many uplines have nobody to hold them accountable, do you really want to do business with these folks? Would you invest your retirement money with a broker who could not be held accountable? Would you have your car repaired by a shop whose mechanics could not be held accountable? I believe the answer is not to these questions, yet many people are asked to trust and follow the advice of an upline who is not held accountable for their advice.
The system is credited for the few successes that are visible, but the individual is held accountable for any shortcomings or failures. IBOs, I encourage you to hold your upline leaders accountable for the advice they give you. If they won't answer tough questions or take responsibility, then one should wonder why the upline should be given your trust.
Wednesday, August 1, 2018
My Debate With An Amway Drone
I apologize for the length of this post but it's actually quite humorous and I will also post the link in case you wish to follow along or perhaps leave your own comments. The classic Amway defense is used here, including unsubstantiated income and lifestyle claims. He also calls me a liar but never identifies what I'm supposedly lying about. Enjoy!
https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/penn-and-tellers-verdic-on-mlms-bs/#comment-48347
Malachy:
“, FAILED system”?? Yeah. Right. 8 billion annually no sticks no dent. 60 merchant partners and double digits growth in North America these past 2 years.
(Oh yeah. And #1 selling nutritional supplier world wide. Aha. )
Joecool
8 billion annually. Down more than 25% from 2013 when Amway did 11.8 billion. No debt? How do you know Amway has no debt? That’s an old talking point that was proven wrong in the past if you know how to use google. And #1 selling nutritional supplier worldwide is a HUGE lie.
The #1 selling nutritional supplier in the world is Nestle. In he Americas alone they exceed 40 billion. You are just repeating lies that uplines tells without verifying for yourself. More than likely you are repeating income claim lies from upline as well.
Nestle: https://www.nestle.com/investors/annual-report
Malachy:
Nobody went black or lost their homes BECAUSE OF AMWAY. (Gee by your logic maybe Greg (Duncan) couldn’t afford the tapes books & travel to all those functions?
Dude Matt (Tsuruda)was making $90,000 a month as an EDC.
He probably makes 4-5 times that now
Joecool
It’s not how much you make, but what you do with it. $40K per month and (Greg Duncan) winds up bankrupt?
Malachy:
FYI there are 3500 college players who graduate or declare for the draft before they graduate. Know how many are drafted in the entire NFL? 254. That means there’s only a 7% chance of getting drafted
Then there’s several walk ons who are undrafted who show up to training camp. Then you have OTA, mono camp, training camp, and preseason in which 90 or so men all hope to make the roster (of which there are really less than 50 possible openings in a maximum 53 man roster (a half a dozen maybe ten or so of which are already taken by the superstars like Tom Brady or Beckam or Gronk.
So it’s about a 3% chance of even MAKING a roster, and that doesn’t guarantee the big money but only minimum scale if you’re on the practice squad.
Then there’s the chance of getting injured ending a season (or a carreer)
Average length of an NFL carreer? Less than 7 years.
And how much money do you make after you leave, quit, get cut, or injured out of the NFL?
Zero (except maybe some pension depending on how long you played & what money you made. )
Tracey Eaton had to play a preseason game with a flu & high fever, just to prove himself make the team. At Arizona.
Know what happened after he left the NFL with $300,000 on the bank & had to try & make it as a stock broker?
He ended up $400,000 in debt & had to sell his house!
Thank God Wolgamott came along & he asked Wolgamott how he managed to sleep in every day & be rich.
Now they are free as diamonds & have a beautiful high rise condo in Seattle and paid Cash for a second home on the river.
Eaton makes more money than he ever made in the NFL & is not subject to injuries, age, or roster cuts
Yeah we know all about the odds.
(Then there’s also Superbowl champion Tim Foley in Miami, Hal Greer from the NBA and numerous other world class championship athletes who make their living from amway or endorse the nutrilite Brand. (see Kurt Warner- another walk on who had what it takes in character & went from walk on back up quarterback to Superbowl champion. Yeah. He believes in nutrilite & amway)
Not everybody who plays the game is a winner or a champion. Only those who got what it takes (which obviously you didn’t!)
Joecool
July 30, 2018 10:00 am
7% is a whole lot more success than Amway IBOs. A platinum is allegedly where you start to break even more make a small profit, depending on your commitment to the system. A platinum is already in the top fraction of 1% of IBOs. What serious business owner prospect would want to join and opportunity where the likelihood of success is so low?
Arena football players know the deal before they sign up. They are signing up because someone told them about residual income for life if they play arena football.
Again, how do you know what Tracy Eaton makes? Did you show you his financials? You have no idea but you keep making those kinds of claims. All you are saying is that he lacks integrity and is able to sell people on lies to make his living. 2-5 years, walking the beaches is a lie. One that has serious consequences for many who get involved.
Malachy:
woww. Once again you demonstrated a difficulty understanding (or paying attention to) what people actually say.
If 7 % get drafted that doesn’t necessarily mean they will make the roster by end of preseason and if they do make the roster half of them will NEVER make a million a year
Many have ENDED up broke after being retired (average carreer is less than 7 years and they don’t pay you or even guarantee your salary if you’re not playing. Many get injured and most contracts have team friendly incentives that only pay based on how many snaps you play in the year.)
Tracey Eaton lasted a handful of years after busting his @$$ to make the team during preseason only to end up broke & having to sell his house after retirement. None of hos NFL income was secure or willable to his children
Now he makes more than he did in the NFL and it’s all willable to his children and most of it is passive ongoing income streams.
He paid Cash for his second home. (did you?
Joecool
I understand completely. But anyone who gets drafted receives at least a signing bonus of about $100k or more, even if they fail to make the team.
Most Amway IBOs make nothing and if they attend functions, almost all of them LOSE MONEY.
Tracy Eaton can tell you he paid cash for his home. I paid cash for my home. See how that works? Talk is cheap. Greg Duncan also said she paid cash for his homes. Then we see foreclosures. Guess what? Homes that are paid for can’t get foreclosed.
“None of his NFL income was secure or will-able to his children” Total bullshit. All of his guaranteed income could have been secured and will-able to his children.
You know why Amway diamonds might quit or resign but they never “walk away? They have to keep working the business. Most Amway IBOs do little or nothing and quit. If you stop building your Amway business, people will continue to do little or nothing and quit. You cannot build a sustainable income where the attrition rate is so high unless you are constantly working it. The never quit that upline teaches applies to the upline as well. If they quit, their business will fall apart faster than a cheap Amway suit.
Malachy:
Name one example of an NFL contract which says they continue to get their bloated salary after they’re no longer able to play?
No such thing! It’s all based 100% on their own ability.
Amway isn’t based on ability. It’s based off an asset which continues to generate revenue and therefore earnings for you or your beneficiaries
Ever hear of an “integrated Diamond”?
(Oh. I’m sorry. So now Georgia Lee (Puryear) no longer gets any income since Ron died? )
Better tell Jim to go get a job ha.
Joecool
So why don”t diamonds walk away and retire? Because their business will crumble apart once they stop working. In Amway, you need the ability to recruit and lie to recruits so they will sign up and buy Amway stuff and tools and functions.
I don’t know. Georgia Lee didn’t show me (or you) her financials so I don’t (and you don’t) know what or if she’s still making money from Amway.
You do know that Amway diamonds invest in other things besides Amway right?
Malachy:
I’ve never been lied to by anyone in the Amway company or WWDb. You on the other hand lie all the time & make up stuff to support your excuses why you quit. LOSERS do that & we don’t do that in our family.
Joecool:
What have I lied about? I share my personal experience. Whether you like it or not is another story but these are not lies.
You make up all kinds of stuff. You quote income from people you don’t know. You pretend to know how much income and expenses the diamonds have. The truth is you don’t know.
You bought into the lie that buying from yourself can turn into profits.
You still haven’t answered why not a single diamond walked away to enjoy residual income. Instead, they are on the job until they pass away. That’s not freedom.
https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/penn-and-tellers-verdic-on-mlms-bs/#comment-48347
Malachy:
“, FAILED system”?? Yeah. Right. 8 billion annually no sticks no dent. 60 merchant partners and double digits growth in North America these past 2 years.
(Oh yeah. And #1 selling nutritional supplier world wide. Aha. )
Joecool
8 billion annually. Down more than 25% from 2013 when Amway did 11.8 billion. No debt? How do you know Amway has no debt? That’s an old talking point that was proven wrong in the past if you know how to use google. And #1 selling nutritional supplier worldwide is a HUGE lie.
The #1 selling nutritional supplier in the world is Nestle. In he Americas alone they exceed 40 billion. You are just repeating lies that uplines tells without verifying for yourself. More than likely you are repeating income claim lies from upline as well.
Nestle: https://www.nestle.com/investors/annual-report
Malachy:
Nobody went black or lost their homes BECAUSE OF AMWAY. (Gee by your logic maybe Greg (Duncan) couldn’t afford the tapes books & travel to all those functions?
Dude Matt (Tsuruda)was making $90,000 a month as an EDC.
He probably makes 4-5 times that now
Joecool
It’s not how much you make, but what you do with it. $40K per month and (Greg Duncan) winds up bankrupt?
Malachy:
FYI there are 3500 college players who graduate or declare for the draft before they graduate. Know how many are drafted in the entire NFL? 254. That means there’s only a 7% chance of getting drafted
Then there’s several walk ons who are undrafted who show up to training camp. Then you have OTA, mono camp, training camp, and preseason in which 90 or so men all hope to make the roster (of which there are really less than 50 possible openings in a maximum 53 man roster (a half a dozen maybe ten or so of which are already taken by the superstars like Tom Brady or Beckam or Gronk.
So it’s about a 3% chance of even MAKING a roster, and that doesn’t guarantee the big money but only minimum scale if you’re on the practice squad.
Then there’s the chance of getting injured ending a season (or a carreer)
Average length of an NFL carreer? Less than 7 years.
And how much money do you make after you leave, quit, get cut, or injured out of the NFL?
Zero (except maybe some pension depending on how long you played & what money you made. )
Tracey Eaton had to play a preseason game with a flu & high fever, just to prove himself make the team. At Arizona.
Know what happened after he left the NFL with $300,000 on the bank & had to try & make it as a stock broker?
He ended up $400,000 in debt & had to sell his house!
Thank God Wolgamott came along & he asked Wolgamott how he managed to sleep in every day & be rich.
Now they are free as diamonds & have a beautiful high rise condo in Seattle and paid Cash for a second home on the river.
Eaton makes more money than he ever made in the NFL & is not subject to injuries, age, or roster cuts
Yeah we know all about the odds.
(Then there’s also Superbowl champion Tim Foley in Miami, Hal Greer from the NBA and numerous other world class championship athletes who make their living from amway or endorse the nutrilite Brand. (see Kurt Warner- another walk on who had what it takes in character & went from walk on back up quarterback to Superbowl champion. Yeah. He believes in nutrilite & amway)
Not everybody who plays the game is a winner or a champion. Only those who got what it takes (which obviously you didn’t!)
Joecool
July 30, 2018 10:00 am
7% is a whole lot more success than Amway IBOs. A platinum is allegedly where you start to break even more make a small profit, depending on your commitment to the system. A platinum is already in the top fraction of 1% of IBOs. What serious business owner prospect would want to join and opportunity where the likelihood of success is so low?
Arena football players know the deal before they sign up. They are signing up because someone told them about residual income for life if they play arena football.
Again, how do you know what Tracy Eaton makes? Did you show you his financials? You have no idea but you keep making those kinds of claims. All you are saying is that he lacks integrity and is able to sell people on lies to make his living. 2-5 years, walking the beaches is a lie. One that has serious consequences for many who get involved.
Malachy:
woww. Once again you demonstrated a difficulty understanding (or paying attention to) what people actually say.
If 7 % get drafted that doesn’t necessarily mean they will make the roster by end of preseason and if they do make the roster half of them will NEVER make a million a year
Many have ENDED up broke after being retired (average carreer is less than 7 years and they don’t pay you or even guarantee your salary if you’re not playing. Many get injured and most contracts have team friendly incentives that only pay based on how many snaps you play in the year.)
Tracey Eaton lasted a handful of years after busting his @$$ to make the team during preseason only to end up broke & having to sell his house after retirement. None of hos NFL income was secure or willable to his children
Now he makes more than he did in the NFL and it’s all willable to his children and most of it is passive ongoing income streams.
He paid Cash for his second home. (did you?
Joecool
I understand completely. But anyone who gets drafted receives at least a signing bonus of about $100k or more, even if they fail to make the team.
Most Amway IBOs make nothing and if they attend functions, almost all of them LOSE MONEY.
Tracy Eaton can tell you he paid cash for his home. I paid cash for my home. See how that works? Talk is cheap. Greg Duncan also said she paid cash for his homes. Then we see foreclosures. Guess what? Homes that are paid for can’t get foreclosed.
“None of his NFL income was secure or will-able to his children” Total bullshit. All of his guaranteed income could have been secured and will-able to his children.
You know why Amway diamonds might quit or resign but they never “walk away? They have to keep working the business. Most Amway IBOs do little or nothing and quit. If you stop building your Amway business, people will continue to do little or nothing and quit. You cannot build a sustainable income where the attrition rate is so high unless you are constantly working it. The never quit that upline teaches applies to the upline as well. If they quit, their business will fall apart faster than a cheap Amway suit.
Malachy:
Name one example of an NFL contract which says they continue to get their bloated salary after they’re no longer able to play?
No such thing! It’s all based 100% on their own ability.
Amway isn’t based on ability. It’s based off an asset which continues to generate revenue and therefore earnings for you or your beneficiaries
Ever hear of an “integrated Diamond”?
(Oh. I’m sorry. So now Georgia Lee (Puryear) no longer gets any income since Ron died? )
Better tell Jim to go get a job ha.
Joecool
So why don”t diamonds walk away and retire? Because their business will crumble apart once they stop working. In Amway, you need the ability to recruit and lie to recruits so they will sign up and buy Amway stuff and tools and functions.
I don’t know. Georgia Lee didn’t show me (or you) her financials so I don’t (and you don’t) know what or if she’s still making money from Amway.
You do know that Amway diamonds invest in other things besides Amway right?
Malachy:
I’ve never been lied to by anyone in the Amway company or WWDb. You on the other hand lie all the time & make up stuff to support your excuses why you quit. LOSERS do that & we don’t do that in our family.
Joecool:
What have I lied about? I share my personal experience. Whether you like it or not is another story but these are not lies.
You make up all kinds of stuff. You quote income from people you don’t know. You pretend to know how much income and expenses the diamonds have. The truth is you don’t know.
You bought into the lie that buying from yourself can turn into profits.
You still haven’t answered why not a single diamond walked away to enjoy residual income. Instead, they are on the job until they pass away. That’s not freedom.
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