Friday, October 12, 2012

Amway Is Not A Pyramid, It's An Iceberg?

I was in discussion on another forum and a comment was made about Amway being an iceberg, because you see the shiny clean ice on the top but you do not see the majority of the iceberg. Or in other words, the diamonds show you the fancy suits, jewelry, care, mansions, jets and what you don't see is the financial carnage that takes place in their downlines at times. My former upline would tell audiences that they could skip meals to buy more standing orders because you might hear the one thing that could make your business explode. Sadlt, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of someone's business "exploding".

Sure, on standing orders, you won't hear too much of the unethical and "wrong" teaching, because some of this is monitored by Amway, but it's the night owls and smaller group meetings where the real teaching is disseminated. This is where you are told to practically sell your soul to achieve in Amway. This is where the teaching comes in where you should be purchasing excessive amounts of tools in order to succeed. This is where you are told to never miss a function unless it's for your own funeral. A newbie or casual observer won't see these things but if you ever commit to becoming a business builder, this is likely to become your world. This is how the leaders get their unethical teachings to downline, by sending the information downline via the platinums.

You don't see the backstage at functions and meetings. Former rubies and platinums have made commentary about the diamonds literally laughing about how gullible the downline are. You don't see the where the cash collected at the meetings and functions go. There had been some past comments about literally, suitcases of cash leaving the premises. If your upline has a mansion and a fleet of nice cars, it's likely that your tools money played a significant part in your diamond obtaining it.

It's a simple conclusion. The tools have a higher markup than Amway products and have fewer beneficiaries to split up the bonus. A $7.00 Amway product might cost $3.00 or so to make and the rest will be bonus money split up by the layers of IBOs. Whereas a $7.00 cd might take 50 cents to produce and only platinums and higher receive any compensation from this source of income. But rank and file IBOs rarely ever see a true and transparent picture of this business. It is shrouded in secrecy, just like the underside of an iceberg. I challenge IBOs to be real businessmen and women and ask upline the tough questions about where the money is made. Do not accpet rhetoric and anecdotal stories. In real business, schedule C business tax returns are the normal way for verification of business income. If you are going to "invest" your hard earned money into the system to the benfit of upline, you should demand this information.

Would any of you purchase a conventional business from someone without proof that it is profitable? Why would an Amway business be any different? Seek a true picture of what you are getting into.

34 comments:

Anonymous said...

I was shown the plan and i asked exactly that question. Show me your acounts for last year. The response was this is private. You either believe or you dont. So i said i dont believe and left the meeting.

Anonymous said...

Its sad if diamonds laugh at innocent new recruits many of whom give the little bit of spare moneY they to buy tools. Equally i find it hard to understand why so many people agree to tools. Maybe a few are innocent but most are downright stupid.

Anonymous said...

I would expect an amway product at 7 dollars costs no more than 50 cents to make.

Anonymous said...

So is the secret to success to get to platinium. Then you are making money and just keep going. Not that difficult surely. I know the multi million walk the beaches talk is lunacy but whats wrong with an additional 100 grand a year for just talking.

Anonymous said...

I was in amway many years ago and have given some thought to posts on this blog. My view is you need only to buy a couple of tapes. Say yaeger and any other you fancy and one book on goals Etc. If that is not enough dont think buying more will make any differnce.either you have what it takes or not i think what it takes is being able to stand in front of a group and talk convincingly like our politicans. If you can you will be diamond in a couple of years. most people cant So will go nowhere. if they spend on tools they will end up broke. All this talk about products being difficult to sell or people difficult to sponsor and thee few at the top making money on the backs of those on the ground is correct but irreleant. The model is what it is. It works. So my advice is dont bother trying to rationalise. Just go and do it if you want to make it or just forget about it. It cant be that it works for a few and not others. I knew some diamonds who were as dumb as hell. They just knew how to talk

Anonymous said...

I see from another site there were 54000 new platiniums and above in 2011

Anonymous said...

In addition, they are typically master recruiters, communicators, trainers and motivators.
I quoted the above from a site analsing crowns in amway the site indicated they have annual earnings between 200k and several million. The reality of this business is you need to be able to do what these guys do. That is be. Leader not a follower. All the rest is irrelevant. The majority of people are followers so will not make it in amway or elsewhere. A minority of people are leaders and will make it in amway or elsewhere

Anonymous said...

I am a doctor here in the Philippines, with 2 years of private practice in my belt. I was recruited in the Amway business by a fellow doctor back when we were still in residency training. At that time, a resident doctor doesn't really make much and this business hooked me in by their "build your business at your own pace and in your own free time" hook. I started the business alone because my boyfriend at that time didn't believe in this kind of business. I was a faithful IBO for a year, I attended functions and bought tools. But I never progressed to more than 3%. So I eased myself out of the business and turned full time on my job and my family (the boyfriend is now my husband). I chalked it up to "the business probably works, but not for me." It's been 3 years since then.

When I started out 3 yrs ago, I listed my dreams as the following: 1)to own a car 2)to get married lavishly out of me and my husband's pocket and in cash (no loans) and 3) to honeymoon in a luxurious resort 4)to own a house and lot. I finished residency training and in the year interim, I tried to build my business and my private practice at the same time. But my platinum (the ultimate upline of the upline who recruited me) was kind of a seedy character -- unethical in her practice of recruiting with a hint of being a pushover and deceit. She was the one who turned me off the business. She wanted me to enlist my boyfriend so that we can build the business together. I told her that he doesn't believe, and she insisted that I show him the plan and after he steadfastly refuses, told me that my boyfriend will be the reason that I will fail in my business. She insisted on me attending the functions despite the fact that I had job interviews because I just graduated residency and wanted to start my private practice. In the end, I realized, that the business who got me in thinking it wouldn't interfere with my life, was in fact, taking over my LIFE. Sometimes I think, if I had a different upline would I have succeeded in the business? But then, when I think of what I have now, I curb that thought.

After quitting Amway, I concentrated on my J-O-B. Thing is, what my platinum didn't understand, this just wasn't a JOB to me. Being a doctor is my calling. I wouldn't be happy if I'm not a doctor. It gives me a different high. And I guess, my upline who is a fellow doctor, forgot that. He put emphasis on early retirement and living off the shores of some exotic island in the Carribean. So fast forward to now, 2 years in the practice and I 1)own a car 2)got married lavishly out of me and my then boyfriend's pockets and paid for it in cash 3)honeymooned in a luxurious island and 4)is one year away from our goal of being able to afford to buy a house and lot. Plus 1) I love my JOB of helping other people improve the quality of their lives 2)my time is my own and 3)I'm happily married to the person who was supposed to be the reason who will make me fail in the business. My fellow doctor upline is still building the business fast (he's now an executive leader (?) and my ex-platinum mentor is now a founders platinum. I'm glad for them. Every now and then, they still contact me to go back but I politely refuse. But I am happy with my choice. The business works, but it doesn't for me, and that's that.

Anonymous said...

amway is dumb.

amwayscam said...

Amway is different Joecool, understand we are the dream builders, we make you better persons, we help your finances to improve so much so that you can financially be free and walk on the beaches (because all our qualifications are already destroyed) of the world (once in years of your expenses and rest keep doing contacting, inviting, show the plan and do follow up until we die).
Prospects, that's the ice-berg! Whatever in brackets of my previous paragraph happens to every IBO who does not quit. But you can always keep 'doing Amway thing'. Your decision is yours, can I stop you to commit suicide? no!

Joecool said...

And likely almost as many former platinums did not re-qualify.

Joecool said...

Who said platinums earn over $100,000? Achieving platinum is not easy. Less than 1% ever reach that level and even fewer can maintain the level.

Joecool said...

Yes, many Amway folks talk a good game - until you ask them for income verification. Then you get stories, silence or insults.
You just don't get a straight answer.

Anonymous said...

Hi joecool. I believe platiniums earn about 15k annually from products and if they are on the tools racket they make an additional 20k from that. The 100 k i referred to was say diamond. I dont think its all that difficult to reach platinium but thats my view only. It takes work i agree.

Joecool said...

Did you know that according to Amway, only about one half of one percent of IBOs reach platinum. And if you are involved in tools, there's a good chance you have no net profit at platinum.

Anonymous said...

I dont agree with a lot of joecool says (must admit he has a great analysis of the system though) but one thing he is right on is that uplines are stealing from downlines through the tools system. So its not just about quitting or not. I agree many just give up when showing the plan is the way to continue. However many quit because they are bleeding because of tools cost. This is uplines stealing their dreams because of their own greed and selfishness.

Anonymous said...

I think you have a lovely story not unlike mine. I joined amway many years ago driven by a will to be independent. To make a long story short i achieved my dream in a different non amway career managing to retire last year with residual income relatively significant property investments. My views on amway are like yours. It works for those who undesrstand its about having outstanding motivational skills. All the leaders have this. Most people dont have it and most will not survive in amway. I got to platinum level fairly quickly and then quit. Im sure i could have gone higher and im sure i could redo it now. I find it irritating these tools are so dominant and innocent people get ripped off. The tools are of no value at all. Im tempted to start a group on the basis of no tools and not buying more than 20 dollars monthly of own use and finally with a promise the business will deliver only for a few. The results would be the same as today. Difference is people would not feel used or abused.

Joecool said...

The system is where the scam is. The uplines promote a dream of early retirement, walking on the beaches, etc and then then the hopeful dreamers that the tools are the only way to attain those dreams. Then they make tons of money from the tools, in my estimate, many leaders will earn more from the tools than from Amway.

Anonymous said...

Found this interesting article -

http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/i-hate-indian-network-marketers-so-much/

Anonymous said...

I just came back from a PASE meeting and my upline said i qualified to be on the team, im 18 years old and im having a hard time believing in AMWAY

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,

Your theory of "making it" is pretty ill-informed and stupid. I'm pretty sure that the majority of people, so-called "followers," do in fact "make it."

Haven't we done this dance before, on other JoeCool blogposts? You seem to be the kind of naive person who is unduly impressed by so-called "communicators, trainers, and motivators." Becoming Plenty of so-called followers do in fact "make it." Being a "Diamond", "Platinum" (go ahead-pick your "pin"), is not called "making it," it's called "living a lie."

You have it all backwards; Amway pins are the followers. Just because one talks well and has a downline, makes one a "leader" not.

--Daniel

Anonymous said...

GET OUT!

Anonymous said...

you don't have to agree with what he says. doesn't mean it's not true. :)

Anonymous said...

What's PASE

Anonymous said...

To reply to your comment. I don't dispute the truth of what is said. It just seems irrelevant. The leaders have figured out that their message and tools work. So irrespective of all the rationale arguments , this thing will continue to grow and grow.

Anonymous said...

Hi daniel I have no problem if you define making it in this context as living a lie. Its as good a definition as any. The point I'm making is to get the big pins you have to act in a certain way. The big pins do so. That's the reality. Whether its right or wrong is a debate. But you won't get anywhere in it if you don't do what the big pins have done. Most people think they are in a classical business when in fact its nothing of the sortand it will continue to grow because these pins have figured out a system that works. There are valid arguments on this blog as to what the pitfalls are like the tools. But the reality is still that it works.

Anonymous said...

I would think that's about right. I would think the vast majority of people sign up just to see what might happen and of course pull out soon after.

Anonymous said...

+1

Anonymous said...

...unfortunately.

Anonymous said...

I would expect if you are using tools you are throwing away any profits you make (add in to my earlier reply)

Anonymous said...

If Joe Cool's accurate observations are "irrelevant", then you tell us, what would cause them to be relevant? Your philosophising on this subject doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The confidence man also has figured out that his "message and tools work." The con man's schemes willl "continue to grow and grow" regardless. Again, you sound to me like the kind of naive person who the smooth talking "leaders" and "trainers" can spin like a top.

---Daniel

Anonymous said...

To say Amway is a acam is to say that your parents and teachers are also scams. Did your parents not tell you that they want you to be successful and have an expensive car and a big house? Did they not tell you to get a degree and get a job in order to get those things? How many people have a degree and a job and are in their fifties renting an apartment and taking the subway? Amway does work for those who work hard at it and who have brains for themselves to brainstorm ways to get customers and downlines. Amway works for people who utilize the education that they have, for people who are smart. Did your parents deceive you when they promised you your grand dream of a future after you graduated. Stop blaming others for your FAILURE. Start doing something and stick to it. Believe in it and you will become rich eventually. You can either make money or excuses but you can't do both at the same time.

Anonymous said...

ur an effen liar

Anonymous said...

Oh, hi, Anonymous. Denial is not just a river in Egypt, I guess. Your philosophizing is sadly superficial and ignores so much that we know now about the phony lifestyle of the "big pins" - Thoreau's "life of quiet desperation" comes to mind, when I think of people like Ron Puryear, Jim Head, and the Duncans. Unfortunately, the big lie that life is about "living the dream" will always suck people into the scheme of the confidence man. So I guess you are right about that reality - fraud and misrepresentation does indeed work. And someday, the chickens will come home to roost, just like they always do.

----Daniel