Thursday, July 2, 2009

Amway - Fierce Defenders Of Amway - Justifying Mediocrity And Failure?

Many companies have critics. Amway defenders are quick to point this out. WalMart may have hurt small businesses, maybe they don't have the greatest compensation. Microsoft may have faulty software or whatever. It's funny but I don't see WalMart or Microsoft employees writing on blogs and calling their critics losers, or acting like cyber bullies. Seems these bigger companies just do their thing and ignore criticism, yet these companies are very successful.

Corporate Amway Global has some blogs and they are mainly about Amway and Amway related stories, employees and the like.

But various IBOs have taken it upon themselves to defend Amway. Sometimes it has been done in less than ethical manners. For example, Amway biggest champion, IBOFightback, has been refered to as a cyber bully by more than one website, and has more blogs about Amway than Amway. His reason for so fiercely defending Amway is still a mystery because he said he is not compensated by Amway or Alticor, or by any motivational groups. He has admitted that he is not even active in building a business, therefore he is not making any significant money from the Amway compensation plan.

What makes this interesting is the tactics that IBOfightback and many of his fellow IBOs employ. They will attack the credibility of the critic or try to discredit someone by saying their experience is not valid, or their experience is too old to be counted, even when IBOFightback himself (apparently) hasn't done much in Amway since 1998. In some instances, defenders resort to shameless lies to defend Amway or product schemes such as perfect water, and then get mad when critics point out the antics. It appears that IBOs are their own worst enemies because IBOs themselves are guilty of most of what critics point out.

It is my informed opinion that many IBOs defend Amway because they were enticed by Amway upline leaders into believing that facts don't matter, that the dream is alive, that success is around the corner. Many IBOs see their $9 bonus checks and they have to justify themselves in order to claim success, to keep hopes alive that they will cross stage as a new diamond. To not defend their IBO bretheren is to admit failure. It is why much debate here is about IBOs analyzing their business and tracking profits and expenses. If IBOs are losing money and pretending to be successful, they are simply justifying their mediocrity and failure.


Anonymous said...

IBOFB is a troll and a loser. He only exists to make himself and Amway look stupid with his ridiculous assertions.

Levi said...

My case in point, here another blog that just trashes others who are defending their rights to believe in whatever they want. why is someone a loser because they want to be successful and feel financially secure? should we call you a loser then for whatever reasons we want? seriously if you like a job then fine people like joe have taken what is said by IBO's and twisted it to make his site and his postition look better. over time people will see that. you are a fraud and a liar.

Levi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joecool said...

Levi, eagle parameters do exist. Go look them up if you don't believe me. As for mud slinging, I have not called you names, in fact it's been the othe way around. As for your reference of "ex con". I believe you brought that up yourself when you admitted you were a 3 time felon. Why did you bring it up in the first place?

Anonymous said...

Good grief.....

Please, Mr. IBO, just go and build it.

But if you get all weepy and curl up in the fetal position because someone calls you a name or doesn't jump up and down and clap their hands in joy because you are an IBO - you might not be cut out for the real world where real business lies.

Again - just go build it.


MRmaximum said...

That’s funny; I could have said the same thing about you Levi, and so could many others. Hmm, those in glass houses, right? For your information, us ‘haters’ are simply trying to warn people from making the mistakes that some of us have made in the past with this AMAZING business, you simply can’t see it, that is not our fault or our concern, as my mother has told me in the past, “some just have to learn the hard way.” And I guess you just have to suffer through it yourself like the legion of IBO’s/distributors before you.
LOL, dude, you have no idea about Joe, me, Gina, OR anyone else! Fools, Goons, bro, let me fill you in on something. My wife does run her own business, it is a small residential cleaning company to be sure, but even after her many numerous legitimate deductions, and I don’t mean the ones in which you are told you can take with your Amway business but really can’t, I mean the real ones that real business owners, from what you yourself have stated…she makes MORE than you do and has for a long time. Howeverm before her deductions, she makes more than me, and I am no McDonalds employee in terms of income. Try Radiation Protection then get back to me before you open your mouth. And I can tell you one more thing; she does it in less time than you do as well. She makes what a platinum is supposed to make, but doesn’t have the lousy system expenses that eat up her income, so tell me, who is the fool? And she can also show you her P/L that proves this info, which is more than I can say for many IBO’s. Losers, try again. The only person who has no clue of what they are talking about is you. Oh yes, go ahead and tell me about how you will be making tons of money as a Diamond. You aren’t the first so make this statement, and you won’t be the last. FYI, I won’t be holding my breath, nest-ce – pas?

“A fool and his money are soon parted (hey Joe that sounds like your group of Amway haters).”

Nope, not us, maybe a bunch of Kool-Aid drinking IBO’s from the sound of it and yes, the vast majority (even me when I was in) where fools…and we did lose money. No worries though, you are about to find out just what that is like. I guess you will have to learn this on your own.

We will be seeing you later, which statistics say will be sooner rather than later. Just a warning, crow is a very hard thing to eat, just a hint for the future, yeah? FYI, take a look at all the carnage this business creates. And that, my good sir, is why we are here. Are you upset and taking off because we don’t stand up and applaud like Anon has stated like good little downline or IBOs who eat up whatever their upline or big pins say? Are you and the other Emerald Anon upset that we simply don’t take you are your word like IBO’s or prospects without asking for proof? That real business statistics and reports, the real backbone of real businesses are what we constantly require, and you cannot reasonably provide? Why is that? Because this is the real world and that cult-like acceptance that you expect doesn’t fly outside of Amway. If you are this troubled by what goes on here, you are going to have a heck of a time building your so-called business.
It must be real upsetting when you try to argue in favor of a business and real world statistics shoot the business down at pretty much every turn. Yet another reason why IBO’s have to resort to name calling, what else do they have, Amway isn’t a logical business, so any logical argument reveals the sham that Amway really is.
Good luck with your business…you will need it in spades!!

Anonymous said...

I think I will keep my 'real' job that pays me decently, allows me to own a home and a car, save in a 401k, allows me to have enough left over for an occasional vacation, and provides me with medical benefits. I don't have to attend stupid meetings, buy stupid DVDs, attempt to recruit people by telling them they can make an extra $500/month, buy overpriced products or pretend that I am successful because the last Amway rally I attended SAID I was.

Sorry if i sound a little bitter but I actually know some people in real life who can nary afford to be buying/selling Amway products because they can barely put food on their own tables. Someone somewhere told them Amway was the way to financial freedom but forgot to tell them there was actual work involved, and now they are spending money that they should be using to get their life in order on Amway instead. They should be getting real SECOND jobs to make their ends meet but they are living this fantasy that one day they'll be a diamond too. Believe me when I tell you that their so-called Amway education is NEVER going to compare with my bonafide university degree and the doors that it opened for me.

IMO, Amway sponsors and uplines clearly prey on people who can least afford to take part in this 'opportunity'. They look for people who are down on their luck, working minimum wage or other crappy jobs and seduce them with a get rich quick scheme - you can work from home a couple hours a week! More time with the family! They turn them into automatons who spout motivational bullcrap and judgemental observations about people who have regular jobs (and can therefore pay their bills) because these people haven't 'broken out of their comfort zone'.

Color me comfortable with the comfort zone. In today's economy you would have to be a moron to spend more money on products that you can get at your grocery store for less. If I need a little more cash, maybe I'll get a second part time job that Joecool and others have already demonstrated actually PAY MORE than the average IBO makes selling Amway. And the best thing is, I don't actually have to spend any of my own money to do it.
-Living in the Real World

Levi said...

It is real funny the amount of intelligence that is lacking here. You all claim to have the answers, have the right comeback, obviously cant be wrong, and really think your way or observation can be the only one. I will go and build it regarless of what a bunch of bloggers who can be anything they want to write have to say about it. what do you do in your lives besides blog and hang out on the computer all day? do you all sit in your fancy lifestyles and point out what we are not doing right? no one really cares about your comments.
Joe, really where would I look up Eagle Parimiters? You have got to be kidding me with half of the misleading things you post and distribute all over this web that is half right information or a twist into your own words. you are not doing anything here but looking for attention like so many disgruntled IBO's. Forget my last comment. It's not over, I am gonna play this game for the hell of it just to have fun in this fairy tale world of yours where everything you all write about is accurate and is educational. You claim to be these people in real life when you can be actually anyone. yeah JOe I am honest to the core about my life. so what if i am a felon. I fell on some hard times and made mistakes but like you I am just the same you just have not acted out yet. Tell me joe why really did you change your age so many times in the last 6 months? trying to fit the socail bill? did it not look good that a 21 year old was trying to tell people how his eagle parimiters failed him.

Gina said...

It is IBOFB's methods that are in question not his conviction...
At least get the scenario correct before coming down on others.

Levi said...

Mrmaximum, ahh got under your feathers did I? you know as for you and your wife you really have no place here. as I stated to Joe in the other article how do you assume to relate or understand why someone does this business when you claim to be living in the higher ups of society. you obviously (from your comment) do not need this business and it income potential. But as for those who do you bash them because they dont go through life like you? sorry not everyone can be successful like you and your wife who makes oh so much more than us puny IBO's. well congrats what do you want a pin? oh wait that is somthing you disgruntled former IBO's failed to achieve. So like I tell gina enjoy your pedestal in society you will never understand the reasons why of the average americans like us who choose to do all we can since we dont have it like you and your wife. you should come down from your pedestal and walk in my shoes for a day maybe then you could be a little more understanding of why a person would seek out this business. It is all most of us got besides our dead end jobs. not elaborate carrers like you and your wife. Then again you could just be lying, why else do you have to tell the truth? If you were living this good why are you wasting your time here? you obviously have achieved financial comfort in your life but you need entertainment so you kick out the rungs for those lower on the scale than you? nice, cant wait for your turn.

mrmaximum said...


Sorry to ruffle your feathers, did I upset you? I thought you where only coming back to give us a success report, where did that go? I'll keep watch for your success reports, really I will. Shouldn't be too hard to find with all the other success reports other IBO's will be sending.

You got me all wrong fella, maybe that is my fault though. My wife and I are very common people. I luckily aligned myself with a company when I was desperate for a job. They where desperate to hire and I got it through a friend at the time.

The company has changed drastically since then, there is no way I could be hired with my background now, neither my wife nor I have highschool diplomas, that sort of helps with technical jobs like this. My point to you was that Amway isn't the only thing out there, and if you believe that it is then I have a bridge to sell you.

My wife has had her business for 6 years, and only spends 15-20 hours per week running it. That's it, by the standards I remember when I was in, that would make her a platinum, yet I know that every platinum on my old team where working much harder and much longer than she was...before they quit.

I'm here and I'm upset because I can relate to the common person who wants more out of life, who isn't afraid to strap on some courage and faith and start something to better their lives. However, I get really upset when people decide to take that same initative and ambition people have and use it agaisnt them for as much as they can. I came away lucky, I'm now getting back on my feet, there are others who aren't and some whose lives have been changed forever, and I mean divorces and split up families because of this wretched business.

Not my fault that you are either blind to the obvious, or refuse to see, not my problem, the only one this will affect is you. I learned, so did many others, I guess it's your turn now. We tried to scream that there is a train coming behind you, it's up to you to get off the tracks. You don't have ot argue with me, argue the facts, they never log off or have other things to do.

Here it is; 1% of people become platinums.

Argue that.

BTW, you aren't insulting anyone when you state that we never accomplished anything in Amway. Saying that is like saying we where the worst dandelions in the school play. A completely pointless statement used as if it would hurt us. These mean little to nothing in the real world and that my friend, is the point.

So as for the real world messing up my ladder to 'success', I'll take my chances. Life is a chance and I do my best to hedge my bets as no one knows what the future holds. The fact that you wish it says quite a bit about you...I wonder if prospects can see that...

As I said before, good luck, you will need every bit you can get.

mrmaximum said...

Sorry I meant to say that neither my wife or I have College diplomas

Levi said...

However, I get really upset when people decide to take that same initative and ambition people have and use it agaisnt them for as much as they can.

Is this what I do with my business? I will agree most uplines do not run this business with thier downline in mind that is why the failure rate is high and so many stories are negative.

Why am I still here? I got friends that like to read my blogs they say it is fun and educational to read what you all say.

you sound legitimate, I will give you that. if you go to my site maybe you can get an understanding of why I do what I do. I promote a way to climb that ladder of success and I do not exploit my downline for money. I want to see people succeed. If I made my approach high strung, fast paced, glitz and glamor, and sold people on the pitch maybe I would make more money. but then I would fall into the Upline stories that are told here.

My beef is it can be done right, It is a very attainable option for those without much money to invest to get a few rungs higher and get out of the flood waters of this economy. As in any venture you have to be careful who you deal with. I deal with salesmen everyday and I will slow them down, break down their whole speach and picth and get to the real meat of thier ambition for what they are selling.

when done wrong any opportunity will fail, some worse than others. when done right any opportunity will succeed.

Joecool said...

Levi, that is the entire problem. Many, possibly all of the big Amway leaders exploit their downline.

Levi said...

Then be the one that does not, be the beacon of light that helps individuals achieve the comfort level you are at. many americans are starving for the financial know how to make a better life one that can secure them financially. Jobs dont do that for everyone. sorry but lately thats been the facts.

Joecool said...

Sorry Levi, for every big Amway leader, there are tens or hundreds of thousands of downline who suffer abuse. Having one ethical upline here are there is fine, but it is better to warn the masses of people. Thousands of people read this blog each month, and it has helped many to get valuable information and insight.

Levi said...

warn them of what? to find an ethical upline who shares in the correct values or bash the whole thing? People need a way out of thier financial situation and bashing the easiest option for them is leaving them with not much to go on. tell me how are you helping? many other ventures cost expensive startup costs and dont show a return for years. why dont you tell us what do you do for a living and how can we do what you do since you have the answers for a comfortable living. if you cannot give that information then kicking the legs out from americans who hardly have one to stand on is that not the same as the upline taking advantage of them? there is a thin line between being taken advantage of and pure ignorance. Post a Way out instead of slamming the doors on the ones people have. sure they seem relieved that they got this information about these uplins and it will save them time and money due to your site but where will they go? back to that same job that barely has them above water waiting for the government to send out a life raft. Be that life raft, give options if not Amway then something to give hope and guidence to an economy that is turning people against eachother for the need for money.

Joecool said...

Levi, there are many lines of sponsorship out there. They have functions all across the country with tens of thousands of IBOs in attendance. All of these IBOs who see possibly unethical uplines get the same information. Do you not see a problem there?

Levi said...

Then send them to an upline such as myself who you have had to of seen through our discusions that I am not like these uplines, that my business is not the one that exploits new IBO's for thier money in the tools trade. joe if your upline had said "JOe forget spending money on those tools and spending that 4000 per month you said you were spending and turned it into 200 per month would you have made a profit at 4000 pv?

Joecool said...

Yes, if I did not spend money on tools, I would have made a profit at 4000 PV. But money wasn't the only reason why I quit Amway.

Levi said...

yeah because you had moral integrity and now you want to share with the world on your pitiful little blog about how you are this and you are that and you think you know everything there is about a person or things in this life. you and many of your so called living above the amercan statistic friends her on this site are likely nothing but young little punks who have nothing else to do with their time. you probably work at a job or go to school where blogging like this is easy to do. do you really think we belive you are who you say you are? to all of you here this is all a mask, you can be anything you want. so dont tell me how good you have it or how you think it is just because you can write it.

steve kiss my ass.

Anonymous said...

yep...the dude's getting desperate. what a peabrain!