Sunday, September 5, 2010

Amway - How Does A Diamond Make Their Money?

I remember seeing my diamond drive to functions in a Mercedes Benz and seeing various functions where incredible displays of wealth were shown. WWDB has a function called Dream Nite where diamonds parade around in fancy suits and clothes, show off slide shows of fabulous vacations, mansions, sports cars, jets golf memberships and other luxuries. They would say "do what we do and you can have what we have". They would also tell the audience to hurry up and join them.

At the time I was an IBO and had no idea how much income a diamond made or how much money it took to run an Amway business. I was just excited and determined to become one of the guys on stage urging on the new kids on the block. However, as I progressed in pin levels, I never did see the profits that upline spoke of. All I saw was my hard earned profits being invested into more and more tools. As I got more volume, my tool expenses seemed to get higher and my upline expected more and more commitment from me. I never thought about how a diamond made their money in Amway.

After I left Amway and eventually began blogging, I learned about the tolls income. As I IBO, I was told that the tools had no profits. Profits were simply reinvested to pay for functions. I know that Amway reported that the average diamond earns about $150,000 s year from Amway. Of course business structure and the number of months a diamond qualifies is a factor. A founder's pin can earn significantly more than a non founder's pin. However, I also know that a founder's diamond or above is the exception and not the rule. Thus a diamond will earn Amway bonuses and volume from downline.

The reason why a diamond apparently seemingly never quits is because they need to keep working and replacing downline who quit. Seems that about 2/3 of IBOs never renea after a year and 95% og IBOs are gone in less than 5 years. With that kind of attrition, you basically can never walk away from Amway and sit on the beaches while the cash rolls in. What I didn't know as an IBO was my upline was earning income from tools. I'm sure they are earning several dollars a month from the standing orders, voicemail and some others tools. I believe the bulk of tool income is from the functions where there is a huge potential to earn significant cash. Nobody can pinpoint exactly how much someone earns from tools because you would have to know the breakdown of profit from each tool, and you would need to know how many diamonds and other pin levels get a share of the income. It is my informed opinion that a diamond would make about two thirds of their income from tools sales and the rest from Amway bonuses.

I base that opinion on the concept that the tools have a much larger profit center than the Amway products. Amway's bonus is about 33% or so but is split up in layers. The tools can have several 100% profit with fewer people getting a share. For example, a major function might cost $35 to $40 per person while the uplines charge $125 an up. A cd might cost 50 cents to make but upline charges $7.50 or $2.50 if you pay a monthly membership fee of $50. Based on some former diamonds statements, it is fair to conclude that a diamond might make only a thrid of their income from diamonds.

Does that seem fair when diamonds push tools on their downline?

55 comments:

Colin said...

My sister is a controller of a company doing accounting making 120k a yr. Her income is dependable and she takes 3-4 vacations a yr. Compare that to my ex diamond lifestyle of trying ot get people to buy tapes,functions etc. She lives way better than they do without the lies.

Anonymous said...

if i slogged it out for years on end and stuck it out to the dimamond level, making a decent living, look at them at the major functions, they're having a great time, enjoying themselves and trying their hardest portraying this to the newbies at the meetings and functions.

I wouldnt want to step away from that kind of fun until its time to retire due to old age and immobility, I would want a secure business structure though.

Anonymous said...

hahahahahaha diamonds are free they dont work and every day is their vacation they only help the downlines to help them become diamonds

Anonymous said...

WHAT?

Anonymous said...

Amway people are like hound dogs. Wait did I insult dogs?

Anonymous said...

bahahahaha LOVE THAT!

**proud Amway hater**

Anonymous said...

SHIT AMWAY

myke1128 said...

hey its hard to work a job for 40 -50yrs and only make 120k a yr. Then the chances of being fired, kissing your boss's big butt and being away from your family most of the day. That sucks. Amway is an opportunity. It never promises success but the successful IBOs can have a vacation anywhere and any time the want. they dont have to kiss a big boss butt and at even the emerald level the lifestyle is great. Freedom beats a JOB for 50 yrs, anytime any day. Even at a profitable Platinum level you can be free from a job. If you take, lets say, ten years to build a profitable platinum business, that beats being free. My wife is free now for the last four years because of amway. Time with family beat a job for 50 yrs. Those who succeed in amway are the ones who want to. its a business and like any business there are up yrs and down yrs but a winner never quit in the tuff times. They stay like all other business and make it work. Check the history of successful busineses, amazon, apple, microsoft and others. they did not quit. it was hard and failing at times but they make it work. Circumstances maybe different but success principles never change. losses never make it in life, only great men and women write history, others read about them. Amway is a great business OPPORTUNITY. When a Diamond makes money from function or CDs its like the same way your broke lecturers make money on teaching and writing their books. No one questions what they do!! A Diamond has something to share because of experince, his intellectual knowlege is worth something. they should be paid more. But broke minds will never understand that. Someones Knowledge and experince when put in a book is sold at book stores and millions of people rush to buy them but a Diamond's knowlege and experience, which help others to be like them, people talk negative about it. thats foolish. only fools say things without understanding it first. their experience is worth more than the amway dollars. because now they're mentoring and enriching others to do the same.
if only one person have a better lifestyle because i share the amway OPPORTUNITY with them, Then i would have succeeded and amway succeeded. Who can you help have a great lifestyle because of your JOB. Not much, for the most part, non. Amway OPPORTUNITY and YOU can help thousands. ONE at a time. The ones who succeed are the ones who want to succeed

Anonymous said...

true, but doesn't work in amway. nice try!

Anonymous said...

Ohhh but it does work my uplines and really good friends just quit their jobs at platinum level... 7 years of hard work and they quit their jobs!! I watched it happen!

Anonymous said...

smh :)

**proud Amway hater**

Anonymous said...

Amway, always misleeding with great daydream.
Out of thousand maybe one become Diamond. They all are same
I joinded Melaluca, Amway in 1991 left joined Herballife in 95 left joined QuickStar left and joined Amway with new hopes. They are not comptetive if they are better, they will be in real world market and they knew they dont stand any chance in world retail market. If you join Amway you will only have Amway friend and family. Becuase they condition your mind only for business.......
Sorry AMWAY your culture is very limited...............

Anonymous said...

+1

Anonymous said...

I understand the "freedom" from a job, but let's not kid ourselves. You are basically just working different hours than those that have a 9-5 job. Everytime I would talk to my upline, he would be traveling all over the place, attending open meetings, attending conferences in attempts to grow his business. I would hardly call this "retiring". To me it just means that you are self employed. I have worked at a 9-5 job for 10 years, I am on pace to retire with millions because of my 401k, and I am paid to take off from work for 40 days a year...and my weekends are free. It is a little misleading the way uplines refer to "retirement". Also, the conferences that you pay $90 a head for are basically the same thing everytime. If I am told I have to pretend to be excited soem cover band playing Journey, chances are it isn't going to be all it is cracked up to be.

Anonymous said...

+1

Anonymous said...

well all amway haters dont understand how amway workers. you claim to say that you guys have heard that amway doesnt work that the only thing you have to prove that amway doesnt work an it true amway doesnt work because theres people that join amway an do nothing they tell a few friends about an when theu tell them no they get upset an quit that why there alolt people saying that i amway doesnt work but the truth is that they didnt work

Anonymous said...

scambot alert! scambot alert!

ever ramirez said...

hound dogs yall are so stupid this people joining amway are making a better future for them my parents are in amway and their one pin under diamond and ther estill making 22 to 25 grand a month so think about it before u saying anything cuz ur just another employe with no paid off house no paid off car nothing !!!! o btw i hear there hiring in mcdonalds........ i mean for your son .....cuz i mean its not like your ganna leave him fortunes off your millionare bussinues again cuz ur just a simple person that has a employment and from there goes home and then to work then home then to work and its a habbait while we travel the world buy are cars PAID OFF so yea think about it know let me let you get back to your job!

Valerie C said...

AMAZING REPLY!!!! LOVE IT!!! :D

Anonymous said...

LISTEN YOU ALL AMWAY HATERS YOU ARE JUST GARBAGE , GARBAGE THAT COULDNT SUCCES IN THIS BUSINESS DUE TO YOUR LIMITED INTELIGENCE SO GO KEEP KISSING YOUR BOSS ASS MF!

Joecool said...

Keep blowing your money on tools and kissing your upline's ass. LOL

Anonymous said...

show me pay stubs from the end of the year and cross out all personal info so we can see year to date income...this outta be fun.

Anonymous said...

I started as an ibo in February 2011 put my focus towards finding 3 solid people with experience in in networking I spent a lot of hours teaching them about selling products effectively once they were hitting there goals I then taught them about recruiting about quality of quantity because it is the best way.. smart logical people in a small number like 3 to start is a great goal instead of running wild trying to find 100000 people to get sponsored. I kept this method made sure it was instilled and not to be broken. My network is now 17,000 +

brandi said...

i am trying to start amway for my business of choice any advice to start?

Anonymous said...

Amway is an opportunity given to mankind who wants to achieve something remarkable in his/her life after realizing the universal fact that nothing can be attained in a comfort zone,planned and systematic work on a part time basis strictly following the system and submitting to your growing upline will definetly makes you a diamond,Everything is possible on earth if a person believes he can and will reach where ever he wish to reach,ignore all negative people who always pulls back you like crabs,GO diamond.....GOD BLESS YOU

Joecool said...

Submitting to upline will make you broke, not a diamond. God doesn't bless your Amway business if you believe what you just wrote.

Anonymous said...

blah blah blah. geesh, ambots are so very emotional, are they not?

passionate said...

Hello Brandi, If you are thinking then this is not the place to ask for advise.. This blog is created by and made for stupid Employee mentality mediocre lifestyle, hopeless people who cannot succeed and asking for their advise means, you will FAIL for sure. Go and ask the person who invited you or introduced you to this business. Any business takes a mindset and nothing happens overnight.. It will take hard work and there would be a bunch of idiots who would try to put you down.. Me and my wife are building our business with a passion and have seen success because we stayed steady and did not spend anytime on these blogs.. I wish you good luck..

Joecool said...

LOL, speaking of stupid mentality. That is reserved for the rubes who get sucked into Amway. You're building your business with a passion but you are losing money. Come back when you can prove you're successful.

Chuck Holmes said...

Wow, what a post! And the comments are out of this world! I'd like to take a moment and share my perspective.

First and foremost, I do like network marketing. I believe it is a good opportunity for people who want a side project to supplement or potentially replace their income. I don't believe it's easy and it's definitely not for everyone!

In addition, there is nothing wrong with having a job. If you contribute to society, pay your bills, pay taxes and work, I applaud you.

I spent 2.5 years in Amway and did fairly well (top 10%). I learned a lot that really helped me out in life. I am really grateful for that.

I left Amway because I had an issue with the tools business. It is deceptive. Even though the tools helped me grow my business and improve my skills, I finally realized how much money the Diamonds made from it. Most of them claimed they didn't make much or anything at all from the tools. That's what I had a problem with.

It's as if the Diamonds recruit people into Amway so they can sell them the tools! And that's what makes it wrong. If the tools were sold by Amway corporation themselves, it would be much better.

Hey, I'm an entrepreneur. I understand the value of the business tools. I just think that the successful distributors should tell their team that they do profit from the tools, and how much. Everyone should know this upfront, not after the fact.

Needless to say, I have no hard feelings for Amway. My experience was great overall. I've been in the industry 12 years now and do quite well with it.

I just wish people in Amway were less critical of people with jobs! Just because you don't do Amway doesn't make you a loser or dream stealer. This "mindset" that so many reps has is quite perhaps the # 1 reason people hate Amway reps.

So, if you are in Amway my challenge to you is to be a professional! Next, treat your business like a business. Before you buy any tools, evaluate the ROI you will get from them. Watch your cash flow! Track your expenses. Don't get caught up in the hype!

I think anyone could make a couple hundred dollars or more per month in Amway if they WERE NOT buying the tools and participating in the systems. Just my thoughts.

What do you think?

Joecool said...

Hey Chuck, thanks for the comments. I'm glad you were able to get past the diamonds and the tools. I blog because the diamonds are still deceiving people about the tools and I would like information seekers to have the ability to make informed decisions. I believe I have helped many in this regard. It kind of burns me that the diamonds have never been held accountable for their lies and the millions and millions they may have scammed out of people. Sadly, the owner of Amway acknowledged the tools scam as an illegal pyramid but he didn't take any decisive action because the tool kingpins threatened to take their downline elsewhere.

Indeed, evil happens when good men fail to act.

Marvin Shammas said...

lol i find it funny that all who are trying to give credible information are giving it on a blog without their real name and sources of their knowledge, what do you know that the FTC doesn't? Do you think WWDB would be in business for 40 years if they were lying about what the money goes to pay for? They would have been sued and out of business by now. Call me an Ambot but I'll call you a Negatron because Negatrons don't know how to think for their future or family and just remember... NO ONE MAKES A MONUMENT FOR A CRITIQUE. have a nice day.

Marvin Shammas said...

It sounds to me you're looking for a get rich quick. why else would you be joining multiple different business opportunity? You say it doesn't work but i doubt you even put the effort of making it work. It doesn't work if YOU don't work it. Amway will continue to grow, if you take a look at their profit margins they were 12.8 BILLION dollars in profit just last year. IF AMWAY CAN HIT 12 BILLION DOLLARS IN A YEAR THEY CAN DO IT IN A MONTH!!!!!!!!!!!

Joecool said...

Amway did not make 12 billions dollars last year (2014). Their sales dropped a billion to 10.8.

Joecool said...

WWDB leaders did lie about their profits in the past. I was there is person.

By the way, I've never seen a monument for an Amway diamond either.

Anonymous said...

Are these became Diamond since their Birth or Amway gifted them that Pin Level. Obviously they had joined the Amway and work hard nor hardly did any work like you. Yes I can believe that may be you were reached some Pin Level but No bonuses? Have you figured out why?? because Amway is not a Positioned base business but performance based. Even if you achieve 21% but no turnover then a simple equation will tell you your profits 21% x 0 = 0 not millions:) So figure out the reason of your failure and stop criticising and blame game. Everybody have a same and equal opportunity, few people leave their foot prints and remaining Butt Prints. Amway is simply not for you as you only deserve employment with a dickhead boss who keep on slapping your big asses

Anonymous said...

Well not agreed with the mind set. The question here is all the Tools add value in your personality (as you mentioned) and whoever is giving training it is their right to charge you, nothing is free in this world. Secondly nobody force you to buy the tools in fact if someone think that he/she is capable they can run the business on its own, sponsor people, sell the products and that's it? Did amway put any condition to buy the tools otherwise you can not sell? of course not. When you go to Uni, would you pay or earn your qualification free? So please change your mindset and your tools cost doesn't increase with the expansion of your business (turnover), no matter what level you are, cost will remain same and again it's optional. I hope you will not take this comment personal and think about it. best regards

Joecool said...

The tools are a scam. The diamonds tell downline that they NEED tools to succeed but it's actually the diamond who succeeds by selling tools. The vast majority of IBOs who lose money, do so because of the tools.

The difference between college and Amway is that it is well documented that college graduates earn more than non college grads. There is zero documentation that your Amway education helps you. There is documentation that Amway tools result in business losses though.

Joecool said...

In the past, it was possible to be gifted a diamond business because the upline could move PV around help someone qualify at diamond.

What about your dickhead upline who lies to you and then slaps your big assets?

uzzie taylor said...

its a dream business get started

uzzie taylor said...

love it

Need more info. said...

I have been in conventional business for 10 years now and have not become rich yet. I work really hard every day even week-ends and holidays, cant even take birthdays off. It seems the more money i make the less time i have and more I get stuck. Within the next 5 years I will not be able to get out anymore.My daughter call me mister a while ago. This Amyway business sounds like a much better deal. where can i find out more about it. Where do I find a good site to visit? I WANT IT!

Joecool said...

This website has a wealth of valuable information about Amway.

Pravat Dash said...

If Diamonds are earning more then u can also and so become a diamond. Anyhow we have to earn. It is not unfair that we are buying tools of stories of successful people. we are also doing this while buying books from market of other aothors and they are getting royalty. can we write a book?. if no for getting royalty income we have to join Amway to fulfill the dreams by earning money. afterall money matters.

Joecool said...

Overall, Amway is a lousy business opportunity.

Student said...

Someone invited me to join amway last week, i went to the nuts and bolts(were they said everything will be explained in detail to me how the business works) but all they talked about was how important it was to go to a weekend seminar, which didn't help me a lot.

Im on this website to see if it's worth while to join amway. Im still a student so any ekstra money will be very helpful

Joecool said...

If you only join to sell products, you might make a few dollars but if you pay for cds or training, you are nearly assured to lose money.

Unknown said...

Because they pulled out of China ....

Joecool said...

Because people are realizing Amway is a scam.........

Anonymous said...

Network marketing is an incredible way to get financial freedom, but not everyone is meant to be or have half ambition to be an entrepreneur. Those of you who trash talk a corporation that has produced more millionaires than any company in history (outside of Microsoft - Forbes.com) are not meant to be business owners. I've found millionaires and billionaires such as Warren Buffet, Trump and Robert Kiyosaki have better knowledge than your experience with your broke brother in law who tried to talk you into joining the Amway opportunity. That sad facts are most Amway owners don't treat it like a business. Thus is gives most people a bad taste, but if someone wants to make more income on the side, I interview them and take them thru a very selective process to make sure they are going to devote time, and understand it's not get rich quick. When you have partner stores like BofA, Apple, Bass Pro and 88 more that choose to partner with Amway, you gotta admit, you're pretty much a moron if you call Amway a scam. No one who has an IQ about average is even listening to you as you complain, but the fact is when you can create a residual on-going income that can be passed down 3 generations tax free, and I'm playing golf on a Tuesday at 2pm and you're still sucking up to a boss, and driving in 5pm traffic to make home in time to play fantasy football with your broke friends remember Apple, Bass Pro, Macy's, Best Buy, and think about how your scam comments probably impact their businesses. Guess what - they don't, and nice try putting down a $10 BILLION company, while you're trying to find $100 to buy groceries this week. A bunch of saps you are. You do not deserve to be an owner, and please never try. We need employees, and if you're nice to me, I'll tip you well.

Joecool said...

Amway producing more millionaires than any company other than Microsoft is total bullshit. Feel free to provide evidence for your claim - but you won't.

Apple and Bass Pro partner with Amway? Really? I've never seen Amway products in Bass Pro or an Apple store? All the partnership is about, is allowing Amway IBOs to buy and sell their products.

By the way, Enron and WorldCom were also Amway "partners" at one time. Bet you didn't know that.

John Doe said...

Anonymous said, "Network marketing is an incredible way to get financial freedom, but not everyone is meant to be or have half ambition to be an entrepreneur."

According to the income closure statement...it is the worst way to get financial freedom.(https://www.amway.com/en/ResourceCenterDocuments/Visitor/ops-amw-gde-v-en--BusinessReferenceGuide.pdf) If we glance over to page A-2 at the very bottom it has a nice little note saying the average income for "ACTIVE" IBOs is $183.00. That is their monthly GROSS income...that does not include any expenses spent on Amway tools or products. If that is the average, then McDonald's is sounding pretty fantastic right now.

Anonymous said, "Those of you who trash talk a corporation that has produced more millionaires than any company in history (outside of Microsoft - Forbes.com) are not meant to be business owners. I've found millionaires and billionaires such as Warren Buffet, Trump and Robert Kiyosaki have better knowledge than your experience with your broke brother in law who tried to talk you into joining the Amway opportunity."

The first part of the statement is just ridiculous as Joecool pointed out, and the second part of the statement isn't far behind. What is this "better knowledge" that you are talking about? Is it related to Amway, business, screwing people? Warren Buffet is dissected by David Brear here (http://mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare.blogspot.com/2013/05/warren-buffet-denies-all-knowledge-of.html), Trump has been known to make speaking engagements for MLM, but has not ever been in one and has had more failed businesses than the other 2 combined. Kiyosaki is a huckster who rose to fame by writing FICTION such as Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and continues to scam people with his elaborate real estate seminars. These model people you have put into this post have some "better knowledge", but is it really the kind we want? (Rhetorical question, obviously not)

Anonymous said, "When you have partner stores like BofA, Apple, Bass Pro and 88 more that choose to partner with Amway, you gotta admit, you're pretty much a moron if you call Amway a scam. No one who has an IQ about average is even listening to you as you complain, but the fact is when you can create a residual on-going income that can be passed down 3 generations tax free, and I'm playing golf on a Tuesday at 2pm and you're still sucking up to a boss, and driving in 5pm traffic to make home in time to play fantasy football with your broke friends remember Apple, Bass Pro, Macy's, Best Buy, and think about how your scam comments probably impact their businesses."

I have actually written a blog post dissecting this ridiculous claim. You can read it here, (http://themlmsyndrome.blogspot.com/2016/09/amway-partner-store-con.html) and learn that you are far from original, and were clearly programmed to say this exact nonsense.

If you are playing golf at 2PM in the afternoon, it isn't because of your success with Amway but rather in spite of it.

Also, why are you on such a high horse with Amway? You are sitting here bragging about being partnered with blue chip companies and then talking down on anyone who isn't involved in the MLM...this is fundamentally erred logic. Those blue chip companies have many employees that are vastly more successful than you will ever be, and none of them take place in MLM.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Anonymous of October 19 --

Were you born stupid, or did you take an advanced degree in stupidity? I'll give you one thing -- you really have learned how to spout the Amway bullshit line.

Amway is a total SCAM. Ninety-nine percent of those who join Amway never earn any money at all. Does that sound like a good business opportunity?

You're a complete asshole if you actually believe that big outfits like Macy's, Apple, Best Buy and the others are "partnering" with Amway. That's a laugh! All they are doing is letting Amway sell some of their products to Amway's captive audience of IBOs. Macy's "partnering" with Amway? What bullshit. If Macy's lets me sweep up the sidewalk outside their main entrance, am I "partnering" with Macy's?

You're a victim of your own lying propaganda, pal. And you're really are a jerk if you believe that pipe-dream about "residual income." There IS NO RESIDUAL INCOME in Amway. Even if you are a diamond, you have to work your ass off constantly to make sure that your down-line doesn't disappear.

By the way, please tell us -- how much money have you personally lost in Amway so far? Let's hear about that before you spout any more crap about your afternoon golf dates. Got that, pal?

Anonymous said...

Amway is totally a bullshit.

mark richardson said...

They make 90% of their income,thats the truth.