Friday, October 6, 2017

Are Amway IBOs Deceptive?

I cannot even count the number of Amway pitches I have seen on the internet. Because many of them sound exactly the same, or at least very similar. You can probably guess that many of these IBO recruiters were taught by the same LOS such as WWDB or BWW. That is one the major problems I see with the Amway opportunity, that large groups of people are being taught lies or unethical methods of running their business or recruiting. Amway defenders like to cite the fact that 10,000 or even 100,000 IBOs is small in the overall world of Amway and Amway has about 3 million IBOs worldwide. What many Amway defenders won't say is that apparently, most LOSs teach the same basic theories, thus IBO abuse is very significant.

I do not believe that a person can build a large Amway business based on honest recruitment and retention methods. In the past and even now, many IBOs do not know much about the tools business and how you actually get a cut. In the past, some groups lied and claimed they made no profits on tools. Some even went so far as to say their tools company was a non profit company. Eventually, downline IBOs discovered the real deal about the tools and then uplines started to admit that they profited from tools, and started to tell their downline a little about the system. However, these same uplines, many of whom are still active today, have never been held accountable for their past lies and deception. They simply wrote revisionist history where diamonds who got divorced or did something embarrassing were not mentioned or simply disappeared. And IBOs took the bait.

But can you build an Amway business based on pure honesty? I suppose it's possible, but in the US, it would be nearly impossible. Just the mention of the name Amway will turn the stomachs of many potential recruits. It is why some uplines invented the curiosity approach and why some IBOs resort to pure lies to get people to see the plan. Even when I was first prospected over 20 years ago, I was invited to a college "beer bust", only to arrive and see people in suits at a home with the white board. It is why I saw many people walk out of board plans once the name "Amway" was mentioned. It had to be that they were deceived or lied to.

So if you are an Amway IBO or simply an information seeker, I think this is a very fair and appropriate question. Can you build a sustainable Amway business based on honesty and the truth? What have you seen or experienced thus far? If what I have said is reasonable and true, then is it going to be worth your time and money to build this business? That is something your conscience will have to determine.


Unknown said...

To any of the people who are reading this to see why you shouldn't try Amway is look elsewhere. Tbis guy has zero credibility. facts about joecool:

Steve Nakamura (JoeCool)

Steve Nakamura, aka JoeCool, was an IBO in Hawaii in 1995/1996 for less than a year, downline of Diamonds Scott & Cris Harimoto, part of WWDB. He claims to have reached the 4000PV before quitting after his upline suggested he should break up with his girlfriend. He has created numerous anti-Amway blogs and is active as an anti-Amway commentator in many other forums.He has been caught creating fake personas and fake blogs and comment posts in order to damage Amway and BSM companies reputations. Anonymous comments by someone who clearly knows him "in real life" have indicated that one of JoeCool's former downline has since qualifed at Platinum.

Unknown said...

Hey, my name is Francois! I am an Amway Business Owner in Seattle. First, in all are right. It may come as a shock to hear this from me, but you are right. While Amway itself, is an awesome opportunity for everyday people to create a tangible asset, there are people within the company who take advantage of things. I'd like to believe I build my business honestly, and yes I have seen people who build honestly, and some who come up with different tricks to get people to join. The only problems abut Amway IBOS in the US are

1. Lack of conviction. If a person has no backbone about what they do, or is uneasy then when you ask them about what they do you receive a bunch of weirdo backdoor sleazy talk. Trust me, as an Amway IBO I have been prospected by those types. It annoys me too. When you don't have conviction, you can't handle a person's dissatisfaction or objection to what you do, so many lie. While this is not what Amway teaches, they actually teach the opposite, many people do this out of having a weak mindset for business.

2. Work ethic to start a business. Plain and simple, many Americans look at the network marketing field and do not want to do the work. Many people look at the business opportunity and think because it's SIMPLE, that it is EASY. Couldn't be further from the truth. This type of business takes consistent work ethic to grow, and that is something many Americans want to short cut. So when someone talks to you, they may say something crazy like "you can make this much in 3 months" While there are people in Amway who have done abnormal results with their business, they are ABNORMAL. It is not common. So lack of work ethic causes you to make up stuff to make your path of resistance easier to deal with. However it doesn't work and people quit.

Not all Amway Business Owners are bad. If you go to one bad Starbucks, that location is bad. Not the whole company. Same with Amway, however many people do not think about it. I build my business honestly, and I see the results from it all the time. Hope you find the right person to work with if you give Amway a chance!

Unknown said...

It Makes sense...

Unknown said...

New IBO from New jersey. You said it perfectly. Just went to FED 2017 and listened and it is a lot of work upfront with rewards in the end. I meet a lot of successful IBO's. Mindset is very important.

Joecool said...

That's how upline sucks you in. They will talk about delayed gratification or success is right around the corner. Work now, reap rewards later. It's a lie.

When the Amway leaders are pitching the business, they talk about low start up cost, low risk, low overhead, ability to profit quickly. Then when you're in, it's delayed gratification, all businesses have expenses, etc. To the untrained eye, it's easy to miss.

Anonymous said...

You're right, Joe. The 3 posts above you were reeled in with the "if you work hard it's a great opportunity". Pretending that all 99% of those who failed to make any money in Amway were either lazy or just didn't work "hard enough". But no amount of work will magically make the Amway products salable because they are generic at best and staggeringly overpriced. Showing the "plan" to try to reel in other suckers is not sustainable as since the vast vast majority of IBO's lose money most will drop out. Trying to keep together a downline will be like herding cats. And finding customers outside of the Amway bubble is the only way to make money from the products (self consuming brings in no new money and even with "discounts" the IBO is spending more on products they use than they would have had they not been buying from their own store).

Mathematically the money will never come. The only folks who have made money in Amway are those at the top of the pyramid and those who sell useless convention tickets and brainwashing tools.

"Success is just around the corner", yet that corner never comes. I've seen "lifers" in Amway for 10 - 20 years who never get out of the hole of debt.

kwaaikat said...

To conclude with Anon @ 4:23. No addressing of "lack of conviction" or "work ethic" will make 2+2=5.

A business opportunity based on recruitment in turn, by all recruits who want to succeed, has majority failure inherent in the design.

Sorry @Francois and @Diamond Jewellery and @Michael Cruger, no amount of hard work, mindset or eliminating bad apples can change that.

Once you get that (and it's mathematics) then there is no way that Amway or any MLM can end well for the majority. A minority can profit, but only at the expense of the majority. That means even if you overcome the inherent odds, you will be able to do so by exploiting the savings of others whose dreams will by definition be in vain, to enrich yourself.

An inelegant empirical but easily understandable proof: Go and draw a tree structure on paper, and count the ends of the branches (representing IBO without any downline) and the nodes (representing IBO with downline). The terminal ends will always outnumber the nodes. Blame maths, not me. You can draw any tree structure with branching nodes.

Also keep in mind that this is the theoretical best case scenario. Reality will be much worse, but can never be better. You can draw the tree again and put realistic assumptions in, such that you need about 70 downline to succeed (whatever your definition of success is). Then count again the ratio of success to failure. Note that this is true not only for the tree as a whole, but for any sub branching of it. If you plan on succeeding by being fair, no can do.

We have not even started with the training scam.

If all IBOs work 24/7, that will not change the tree. Nor will any advanced training, special dedication, mindset nor anything else.

Michael Cruger, don't let yourself get sucked in. I was going to end this by saying "good luck with your Amway endevour" but that mean that I wish you exploit a few others successfully.

Anonymous said...

Hey Joe!

First I want to say thanks for this blog. I stumbled upon it a couple of days ago as I needed more information about the BWW Amway cult a friend of mine tried to get me into. What was shady was that all of the information wasn't revealed until I went to one of their seminars this past Tuesday. It felt very cult like and the way people praised this speaker was like he was the second coming of Christ. Omg! Literally everything you've said in your past blogs about your experience with amway/WWDB was pretty much what I experienced from this one seminar.

That night, ignoring my anxiety and intuition, I agreed to continue on with the process. I was given a bootleg, badly written 16 dollar book, a propaganda XS magazine, and 5 Cds to read all numbered 1- 5. The up line specifically told me to listen to the brainwashing propaganda CDs first. The first one I listened to gave 8 objections and how to counter argue them. One of them was to not trust negative posts online. That implored me to look up bww and Amway and that's how I stumbled upon your blog.

I messaged my friend the next day and told him I wasn't going to continue the "mentorship" (as they marketed it). I had to meet him that same night to return his propaganda, I mean tools. He tried to talk me out of my decision(which from the cds I knew he would do this) saying that it was based on my feelings and that was dangerous.....

Lol from the focus on the positivity to his dreams, and him telling me not to trust my intuition, I realized dude drunk the kool aid and I really don't know how to help him.

I'm glad that youve continued to keep updating this blog with posts. You're doing a great thing!


To add, I had a run in with Amway back in 2011. They wanted me to recruit ppl right of the bat. This bww thing however is just a backdoor approach to that very same encounter, just disguised as a "free" mentorship program only a select few could get into.(a bunch of bologna)

Joecool said...


Thanks for your comments and I'm glad you were able to benefit from the writings on my blog. Good luck in your future endeavors!

Anonymous said...

No problem ! Same to you :).

Anonymous said...

Hey Shakayla,

Yes this blog is great, at least it helped me. I was in BWW as well, lost a wife to it. She was a lifer and unless I was as dedicated as her things would end...for years I tried to do it but long story short I eventually left .

BWW is insane, did they introduce you to Kumar or Kanti or a new diamond?

Hope the best for you