Wednesday, June 17, 2009

Amway - IBOs - CORE - Non Income Producing Activity?

One of the things touted by many upline leaders as the "key to success" is CORE. I have outlined the elements of CORE here:

1 - Show the Plan
2 - Retail the Products
3 - Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate

In these nine steps, only #2 may actually net the IBO a profit, but this steps is not emphasized in many groups. In all the other core steps, you either spend time and/or money doing things that do not produce income for your business. If you, as an IBO spend most of your time in non income producing activities, guess what? You will suffer losses. It is no wonder nearly all IBOs lose money, they are taught to spend most of their time in activities that do not produce income!

Imagine owning a brick and mortar store where you open the store for one hour a day. The rest of the day you are reading books, listening to tapes/cds, and paying to attend seminars and listening to voicemail messages. Oh, and in addition to opening your store for an hour a day, you don't advertise except for word of mouth. Could you survive in business? I think not. Amway now advertises, but you are not Amway, you are an independent business.

So can an IBO make money by spending most of his/her time in non income producing activity? I think not.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hey Mr Smartypants... let's say you open a brick and mortar store where you open the store for 8-12 hours a day, but you didn't have any of the tools neccessary to run your business... what would you do? Depending on the type of store, your tools would vary... well, if you've never owned a business before, you'd want to have some tools to teach you how, right? If not, how do you expect to understand what you're getting into? Ask your friends? Relatives? Well meaning strangers? You may want to get information from the top people in your industry, so you have a better chance at success, no? It's obvious you don't have much of a business mentality from what you write.

Anonymous said...

And of course you won't post my comment, because I don't feel I need to let you know who I am, as my comment represents the sentiments of hundreds of IBOs that I've personally met and worked with in the past few years. Also, just like a true Liberal (which is what I'm guessing you are, doesn't really matter either way, though) you won't allow the opposing view to show up on your beloved blog.

Levi said...

It is my opinion that it is like this because you are taking a person (the new IBO) out of his or her natural habitat (a Job). So in order to do that you might expect an extensive reconstructive mindframe being implemented such as in boot camp for the military where you are taking common civilians and making soldiers out of them. But as Joe will state having a trustworthy leader (upline) is sadly not always the case. But there is good and bad people in anything you choose to do in life.

Joecool said...

Mr Anonymous, if you open a brock and mortar store, what tools exactly do you need other than a sign saying the name of your store? And yes, you will make much more than having all the tools in the world but not opening your store while you attend seminars and listen to cds.

Joecool said...

Anonymous #2, you thought wrong. I welcome opposing views as long as you remain civil.

You represent hundreds of IBOs? Mayeb I represent thousands or millions who got scammed by upline. How about that?

mrmaximum said...

To the Anon's

I see that this blog bothers you and you would like to make a statement. If you notice one thing, that Levi too is an IBO who does run a successful business. He does have some counter points to Joe's from time to time and he is worth listening too.

Why you ask? There are no insults, no condescending remarks, no attitude. Just his position, placed out there in cyberspace respectfully for people to see.

FYI, when you insult it undermines your position. It's hard to ruffle the feathers of people who really have a handle on things.

Gina said...

"Hey Mr Smartypants... let's say you open a brick and mortar store where you open the store for 8-12 hours a day, but you didn't have any of the tools necessary to run your business... what would you do? Depending on the type of store, your tools would vary... well, if you've never owned a business before, you'd want to have some tools to teach you how, right? If not, how do you expect to understand what you're getting into? Ask your friends? Relatives? Well meaning strangers? You may want to get information from the top people in your industry, so you have a better chance at success, no? It's obvious you don't have much of a business mentality from what you write."

Sure you would need some tools...SOME. A carpenter only needs so many hammers and so many of the same size wrenches.

The tools are not teaching how to run a business....they don't even teach you IBO's about the basics...all they do is motivate and while some motivation is needed in building a business, there is a limit. IT folks require less training, tools and seminars and that field is constantly changing. There is a lot of business to lean as you go along. A basic “business for dummies” will certainly get you started along with a lot of logic and common sense. And asking others for advice in running a business is advised…especially those as you say are at the top of the industry, the problem within Amway is those folks aren’t really at the top no w are they….well unless you are starting a business running seminars and selling books and cd’s.

It is a shame to see that these oh so necessary tools don't teach etiquette and manners. You clearly don’t have a business mentality from what you write.

Gina said...

"Why you ask? There are no insults, no condescending remarks, no attitude. Just his position, placed out there in cyberspace respectfully for people to see."

Sure if you consider calling people lame-brained, snobs, conceited, or telling them to F**K off, or to get off with a P/L not insulting then yes you are right.

You don't read much of what Levi writes do you?

He is a run of the mill IBO. From the last numbers he presented and only working 8-10 hours a week, he makes something like $1.50 an hour...do the rest of the math. No success involved. He continuously changes his position and approach hoping someone will mistakenly see him as nobel....kind of like you just did.

mrmaximum said...

I didn't see those posts, I did see some of them in the beginning on Joe's other blog but that tapered off. Well then, thank you for pointing that out Gina.

*sigh*

When will IBO's learn that insults simply weaken their position? Laywers come back with a counter argument in a case, NOT insults!! How foolish would THAT look? How many times has anyone seen Tiger Woods get belligerant about being a top rate golfer or a Walmart Exec get insulting about how successful the brand is?

I've said this before and I believe it every time an IBO sounds off negatively. Amquix is a bad deal, THEY know it's a bad deal, but they desperately want to believe it's good and honest and any shot a critic makes at the business is a shot at them.

The light shines and the roaches run!!

Levi said...

*clap* *clap* Gina, the I am woman hear me roar. come down from your pedestal much? no one can be right in your eyes. no one has a good enough veiw to be reasonable. no one has a point more important than yours. To the trash talking snob that you are yes you get the pit bull side of this IBO. there is no reasoning with you just mudslinging. YOu believe you have all the answers by twisting ours to make yours sound good. I am not amused, though i do admit I have seen good points given but I have seen more snob comments that make you look like you look down on the rest of us. so if you cant see decent commment coming from me to you then look in the mirror. to those whom I deem worthy to carry an opinionated conversation i will carry a very professional debate. but after your rude agressive finger pointing everyone but you is wrong comments well quite frankly I could care less what you say.

Levi said...

But by the way gina what makes you noble and kind? what makes your degradig comments any better? you have referenced IBO's as dumb, you have pointed out what you see as failures and character flaws while at the same time what makes you this judge? I don't need to be noble and kind, its a rough world. I don't need you thinking you know me or can analyze my positon. I make from this business the little that I do only because it is aside from my JOB. now hopefully as business grows and more time is able to be given to it it will one day pass my JOb and I can retire to do more of what I want in life. yeah,I swear, I fight, My blood sweat and tears got me to where I am in life. You aint never in a million years goning to come close to walking in my shoes. But I give life all i got treating others with the best respect i can. Until i am shown otherwise such as with you. keep your glass slippers enjoy your pedestal its people like you that make me sick so everyone else excuse me but gina you can #@%$ ^&%$ #$@# %%%$#@% &^***

Levi said...

mr maximum how about when non IBO's sound off?
just because we give back what we recieve why are we sigled out? you sling mud you get mud.

Joecool said...

Levi, who's slinging mud here? You're the only one losing your cool. Debate the facts, it works better that way.

mrmaximum said...

Well said Joe, pointing out the obvious flaws in the business isn't slinging mud at Amquix apologist's. I am sorry that you may feel that way Levi, however, if you insult people, then you aren't even taking your own advice now are you? Some pro Amquix and/or IBO's feel this way, possibly because an insult to the business is an insult to them. Amquix simply isn't the same as other businesses operating in the world. However, there is a huge difference between Amquix and anything else in the world.

Chrysler has been on the receiving end of a lot of crap recently. Quite a bit of negative posted online right now. On Chrysler's site, they tout that their 'new' company will be much better than the old one. This remains to be seen, however, the key difference between Amquix and Chrysler; if I buy a car from them; IT ACTUALLY WORKS.

Oh yes, there are a few sites which have been dedicated to how crappy Chrysler products are, then again I've even come across a site which was negative about Honda, so 6 of one right? The point? I've also heard many great things about Chrysler and their turnaround and with my own research, online and in person, their products to me seemed like a good idea.

I have been asked to be a salesperson in the past, I have been told I had the right attitude and enthusiasm. If I was a salesman for Chrysler, I would STILL be making money, despite what the news has been saying. (granted it is much harder to make a sale these days, but I still see brand new chrysler cars and trucks on the road, SOMEONE had to sell them)

This cannot be said about the Amquix business, period. The ones who make it work are the overwhelming minority and there is a huge overwhelming majority who have been swindled or simply out and out lied too. If this business is so great, then WHY is success so elusive? That is not a good track record, take it anyhow you want to take it.

Gina said...

“ come down from your pedestal much?”

Only in your opinion am I on one.

“ no one can be right in your eyes.”

Sure they can, why would you assume otherwise?

“ no one has a good enough view to be reasonable. “

This is incoherent.

“no one has a point more important than yours. “

Sure they do, why do you assume otherwise?

“To the trash talking snob that you are yes you get the pit bull side of this IBO.”

Prove I am trash talking. It’s that simple, proof. Just because you say it doesn’t make it so. Point out the trash talk and prove it is what you say…but as is standard in the real world you do need to prove it…not just wish it. I will gladly correct any trash talking that proves to be just that.

“ there is no reasoning with you just mudslinging.”
Who was trying to reason with me and where? I don’t seem to recall anyone reasoning…maybe you need to look up that word as well. Please feel free to take the time to point out the mudslinging….accompanied with the appropriate proof of course that it is in fact mud that has been slung.

“ YOu believe you have all the answers by twisting ours to make yours sound good. “
Nope, they are answers for everyone involved in business other than IBO’s. Don’t take my word for it…as I have said many times before, look it up. A simple google search will uncover the answers. No need to twist the truth, no need to try and make reality sound good, in fact a lot of what I say that is common place in the business world is tedious and is hard to make it sound good.

“I am not amused, though i do admit I have seen good points given but I have seen more snob comments that make you look like you look down on the rest of us.”

I wasn’t trying to be amusing, so no harm done there. You just don’t like what I have to say so you label me a snob….if that is the road you choose then it is no issue to me….I have better things to do than worry about what some random IBO thinks of me on the internet. Only a fool argues with an idiot, and I sir, am no fool.

“ so if you cant see decent commment coming from me to you then look in the mirror.”

Ummm….OK

“ to those whom I deem worthy to carry an opinionated conversation i will carry a very professional debate.”

It’s unfortunate for you, but there is nothing professional about you, and you certainly have no clue as to how to debate. A debate involves discussion on certain points where two parties have differing opinions and present facts to support their point of view…certainly not what you do.

“ but after your rude agressive finger pointing everyone but you is wrong comments well quite frankly I could care less what you say.”

Feel free to point out my finger pointing. Seems like you are just getting your panties in a bunch because I refuse to disregard not only my own business experience, education but also the multitude of information available in a multitude of forms so that you can feel like you have a point or are correct in your wacky views of running a business. Care to point out, as I have asked multiple times, where you came up with “profit before expenses”? Provide one, just one, non Amway related source that supports this….just one. Until you can come up with something of substance you are just blowing a lot of hot air.

Levi said...

maybe you need to look up that word as well.

assuming I dont know my words?

wacky views of running a business.

so we dont do business like you that makes us weird?
It’s unfortunate for you, but there is nothing professional about you

all these comments are mildly put compared to the things I have read you point out to IBo's who simply choose to do something other than the time consumind norm. God forbid we have a freedom to choose in our lives. you sit on your pedestal and point out what you think we must be missing or just dont get and if we stand to defend our point we are just wacky huh? you might have schoolbook smarts but by your comments you have hardly any street smarts. you dont see what you do to the readers who were looking for answers as to how to solve thier finacial woes and when they get a glimmer of hope they see blogs like joe and you and cower away because they dont want anymore ridicule and stress in thier lives. you can look good all you want on a blog you dont see the people coming through and reading not everyone has to work all thier lives or give so much of thier day to someone other than thier family. I like many other americans who have fallen on hard times just want a way to get our heads above water without leaving our family to do so. you and joe will challange and discect this entry to death telling me the un prosperous veiws on Amway. while amway has been getting new platnums and new pins every month I have friends who have made it and you know they are glad they gave this opportunity a shot. it works but not for everyone. Its ok if you dont like it but you dont have to be a snob about it. everyone is not going to do your way of making a living but it dont' make them wrong either. you sound good on paper. but none of us know you, all that talking about what you know and what you got dont mean nothing to us. we turn off this computer and return to our lives our struggles and our dreams long after the memory of your rants have faded.
I just wonder why sites like these are discourageing people from seeking alternate menthods of income. teach them, guide them, but after having a long day at the office to come and blow away other peoples views just becasue they cant make it through your gauntlet of criticism without feeling dumb for trying to be anything more than a tired employee who spends his time working and sleeping and minimum time spent with family and friends. we should embrace societies desire to become more financially educated and to become less dependant on the government to pay for everything. if you have no blog to help and only rantings against others and thier veiws what is your issue. were you hurt by one of these IbO's did you lose money? what is the cause for the vendetta?

Levi said...

I do stick to the facts but there is no rational with you. you have made it a point to always make sure you can show a fault in anyones comments that might pertain to a positive look at Amway. you said if I did my business the way I said I did then you had no beef. Well whats with everytime I try to bring a little positive light to your negative blogs
you must find a way to discredit it. Then gina comes in with her infinate knowledge and makes it seem like any answer from legitimate Ibo's just trying to make a little extra to survive in this world must be from poor education of her business sense as if hers is the only way.

maximum so you are saying if you buy a product from amway it dont work? or are you saying that if you are trying to make an extra income that trying Amway wont work? well i guess it dont matter because that is really not going with the facts now is it. Amway Ibo's have been making checks some at a loss while some are making it weather or not it stands at 99.99% to .01% is irrelevant since your prior statement would be defused. and I know you are not saying the products dont work cause that is obviously not the case. 50 years, I dont care what excuse you can give it would not be here that long if something did not work. just because the majority cant get it to work for them (primaraly because of poor uplines)is a sad fact but does not pertain that all IBo's dont make anything as far as profit. you tell me to stick to facts but no one here does it is all how they feel it should be.

Gina said...

*sigh*....Again and again I point out to not take my word for things, look into themselves. I don't want anyone to blindly believe what I say about business and this is a matter of IBO's seeing business differently than I, it is a matter of seeing it differently that EVERYONE. While thinking outside the box is warranted in some aspects of business it is not in every aspect...like keeping track of the expenses. There is no thinking differently. Again, don't believe me....LOOK IT UP.

You are getting to be a bore....you have no substantial information to bring to the table and you seem content on chasing your tail to no end.

Gina said...

Still waiting for an answer to the question posed above....and waiting and waiting and waiting

Joecool said...

Levi said " just because the majority cant get it to work for them (primaraly because of poor uplines)is a sad fact "

Joe says: Yes, it is a sad fact, but it is a fact. And that fact is the reason why Amway is a bad idea.

Levi said...

No, its not. that statement "that fact is the reason why Amway is a bad idea." is nothing more than your biased opinion not a fact. Amway is a great Idea, The wrong Diamond leadership on the other hand wuld be the bad Idea. You just basicly said joining in my line of sponsership (just because it is Amway and you know a few bad diamonds) would be a bad Idea. And with the way my business is ran I cannot agree that this is a bad idea.

Levi said...

Gina thank you for your comments and I am so sorry you are bored will you quit? Ha not likely. After this I will direct no more comment to you, you of course will comment but I really will not care. See I run a Business aside from my job trade where i get the funds to cover my cost of living by sacraficing a part of my life per hour to it at my job. While that business is not alot What ever income that does come from it is put back into the businss (because thats my choice) where it will continue to grow. But I dont see where I am missing any expenses, you claim I must have these expenses you speak of and like I have said I put my profits ( about 2 to 3 hundred per month) back into the business for things I want to do like business cards or flyers, Cd's I want to hear,Books on Business, and the Occasional weekend Business trip. But that is not a loss so I dont know what to tell you. we have been arguing this very thing for too long and quite frankly I am tired cause I dont know what you want to hear. That I Keep track of what is going in and out of my business? I do, It's called recipts. None of my primary income is used for my business venures, So keep posting your P/L I hope you get what ever you are looking for. But I really dont think you are looking for anything you just like to blog and be heard. Well Gina WE HEAR YOU JUST FINE.

Gina said...

You don't see where you are missing expenses because you don't run a business. Internet is an expense...no matter if you also use it for personal use...there is a calculation that you would use to figure out the cost, your time is an expense, driving to get to anything you may be doing in the name of Amway is an expense, or bus fare is an expense, office supplies are an expense, business cards, flyers, occasional business trips are all expenses....and they are always an expense and if that total weekly, monthly, or yearly comes out to be more than the income than it is a loss.

You have no idea what I am looking for because you don't have any idea how to run a business...if you did this wouldn't even be a discussion. You can't keep reciepts and call that a P/L. There needs to be calculations done....depreciation for all the assets for example...or are you trying to tell me you have no assests? Your primary income is useless to your P/L unless you consider that income into your Amway biz.

You can continue to change your stance as many times as you wish, but the fact remains simple....I am not looking for any magical answer or unusual information...on the contrary it is quite basic. There is nothingh magic about a P/L and no matter how you try to justify it, if you don't actually keep one then you have no business.

What is going on here is that you refuse to face any of the realities of running a business, and you have taken a stance a little differently than most IBO's and have stopped at the claims of great money in the hopes of silencing some of us critics. You continue to try and paint black as white and will huff and puff in any way to try and convolute things to make it seem that you are in fact running a business like any other and doing it modestly. Yet what you don't realize is anyone with the power of google, or a dictionary, or investopidia, or a basic business book can see you really have no clue what you are doing and are in fact just another run of the mill IBO who refuses to keep track of expenses in an effort to stave off the inevidable reality of lossing money at a poor business opportunity....

Gina said...

Any IBO just has to post an accurate P/L....it is so very simple...if you are all business owners it should be something you have available at a moments notice. If we critics are so wrong then why not show it? Businesses do it all the time....they say they are making or lossing xxx and to back it up they post their P/L. Simple simple simple...

The problem is clear the more you IBO's ignore it or the more you try to insist throwing random numbers is a P/L....that you don't keep a p/l, don't track expenses and will lie to keep the truth from being heard.

Gina said...

This deserves a repost here...

http://www.smallbusinessnotes.com/operating/finmgmt/financialstmts/incomeexample.html

This is a very basic sample P/L...it doesn't matter if you have 2 sales a year or 1 million....you always track them this way. There are ALWAYS expenses...no matter what.

Feel free to look up others....

Levi said...

Thanks Gina,I hope that you feel good with that last statement. you dont know me one bit if you were to say that type of degrading shit to my face you would have your ass beat down. that is called integrity and when you try to bruise it by degrading a person you would definatly get hurt. you are lucky to be only blogging cause I am sure you dont talk like this in public places for fear someone would knock you down a peg or two. just because I dont do a business the way you would want me to does not mean that I would need to be spoken to as dumb. You are defiantely someone I hope karma returns the favor on and when you get yours remember the people like me that you stepped on just to get recognition.

Levi said...

Just a little bit about me though. I run the accounting and bookkeeping for a major hotel in my city. I have degree's in Accounting and Bookeeping a well as Small Business Fundamentals. I am very appreciated for the financial Balancing I do each and every day at this hotel which has been very productive since I was brought on board 2 years ago. We took a hotel that had once been foreclosed and owned by the bank when I started ( so I had to deal with asshole accountats from the bank who were strict like you are) and they were fickle about everything. We turned this hotel around by balancing thier budget and making cuts and improvements where needed and I was the one who kept track of these numbers for the bank who would only talk to the General Manager and I when they wanted to know the numbers.

You are good at what you do ( I hope its not all fake) and I obviously am good at what I do( at least from a financial institutions point of veiw) And I really see no point in arguing how you do your P/L and how I do mine. I use my accounting the same way when I do my business while Amway keeps good enough track of my paperwork I do include its income and expenses in my household budget and dont wish to share its information since i would have to black out alot of personal and financial information that you would just see as me hiding something so sorry but kiss my ass.

Levi said...

But Gina enlighten us, why dont you post your P/L report and show us you really run a business or are you just a good talker? also show us a bank statement that even shows whether or not you really make a decent profit each month or year? come on dont dissapoint me.

Anonymous said...

gina is smart not to keep arguing with this airhead!