Thursday, February 3, 2011

How Uplines Suck You Into The System

If you have ever sat through an Amway presentation and the follow up teachings as I did, you can get a clear picture of how the uplines slowly suck people into the system. The speaker will be introduced as a picture of success. Possibly introduced as being in the top 1/10 of 1% in income (But with no proof). They will talk about how taxes, insurance, and inflation eat away at your paycheck. More than likely they will say they suffered the same way until they figured out how to defeat these issues by making more money. Of course they will eventually drop the "A" bomb on you and say it's Amway. Very likely they will say that you should not care what it is if it gets results.

You are then shown the plan and many people think that 2-5 years and "finding six" is something very manageable for the results they promote (walking the beaches while residual income flows in). At the very least they say, you will make some money and save some money. Who can argue with that kind of logic? They will also likely mention that Amway is low risk or no risk with little or no start up costs. Again, how can you argue with that logic?

You finally convince yourself that you can do this. You sign up and you are likely told that it is important to get some tools because after all, a carpenter can't build homes without a hammer and saw and that any business owner would have to make some investment into their own business. So now because of the tools, you are operating at a loss. You may then be told that business owners normally operate at a loss for years and that it might also be wise to channel your bonuses back into your business by purchasing more tools.

Before you know it, months or years may pass before you start to realize that you are on a treadmill. You keep walking but end up going nowhere. Then your upline may tell you that the business is not about money but more about making lifelong friendships.

In my opinion, this whole system is a cleverly designed systematic way for uplines to slowly drain your resources and making you think that you are successful despite showing no profits. Your upline may edify small things like showing the plan or making a sacrifice to attend a function. Sadly, you will rarely see someone edified for actually making a net profit.

It's a slow process, but most people slowly get sucked into the system, just like quicksand. I hope IBOs and information seekers are able to recognize the scheme if and when it happens to them.


Anonymous said...

i'm glad i did!

David said...

Hi Joe: You mention the LOSs of BWW, Network 21 WWDB a lot in your blog posts. That's probably because you're most familiar with them and these are the first to come to mind. When I was in, we were originally in The Gooch Organization. Something happened that was never explained that made our diamond get into BWW. Bill Britt then "retired" a while later and we then went into The Crowe Organization. John Crowe is the one who was shot in the face at point blank range and survived, despite the odds being against him. Hardly a function or meeting went by without that being mentioned. David and Christen (John Crowe's daughter) Dussault; are the last I knew; at least diamonds in The Crowe Organization. Nepotism runs rampant in Amway, as you probably are well aware! Do you have any recent developments on this LOS? I'm just asking out of curiosity. Thanks

Joecool said...

Hi David, sorry but I don't have any news on the Gooch group. I had heard some things in the past but nothing recently. Thanks for visitng my blog!

Anonymous said...

When I was in... nice one David. You seem to be uncomfortable at hearing the news of John Crowe having been shot in the face and surviving that. It seems that you have something against anyone and anything having to do with Amway. Well, that's why you didn't deserve to be there. I'm glad you quit and offered that sit to someone who does deserve it. John Crowe may be paralyzed on one side after that incident but I assure you, miserable little man, that John Crowe has rightfully earned his Founders Double Diamond status in 2002 than you will ever earn your freedom at 65!

Anonymous said...

go suck an egg, you bitter and broke canadian loser!

Anonymous said...

I don't know about americans and canadians who force people to buy tools but in india there is no such thing as tool scam that exists in america.

I am a amway ibo and nobody tells me to buy tools at all, infact my uplines have given me 15gb of software so that i understand the business and its details.

The tool scam came into amway because of some people greed who wanted more money flow in their trees. It is not related to amway at all.

If today i start writing a book and told my downlines to buy it so that you can succeed in amway then it would become a tool scam too.

In india we never do such a thing, we guide them by mouth and give necessary software.

I have only 2 tools with me to succed in amway
1) Think and Grow Rich
2) The MAGIC of thinking BIG

Now why do you think business is a scam?
In america the uplines are not doing ethical business at all but in india all uplines are ethical and they don't sell tools.

It is your option to buy tool but noone is going to force you for a tool in india.

Anonymous said...

if the greedy sickos who have given amway its bad name are all eliminated, the big devos himself would get a pay cut. so he keeps them in. gee, i wonder what that says about him?

Miguel Eguia said...

I saw him go crown last night! What a wonderful weekend I've had at my first conference. Honestly for those of you who think you know what you're are talking about. You have no idea. And it's really a shame that people who will read this blog might believe that its the wrong thing to do

Anonymous said...

In America it is the same way in most cases. I have never been forced to buy anything. I have been given everything. I have been in business for a month and haven't bought much yet because of my finances before I started. Actually my mentor and sponsor invested their own money by helping me start.

Anonymous said...

Coming from an Amway IBO if the author of this false essay actually did any real research and tried the business they would not have posted this nonsense. Truth being told, you'll work for another man and slave for the rest of your life. You'll probably retire and then work at Wal-Mart.

Anonymous said...

That was Awesome!!!

Anonymous said...

Coming from an Amway IBO if the author of this false essay actually did any real research and tried the business they would not have posted this nonsense. Truth being told, you'll work for another man and slave for the rest of your life. You'll probably retire and then work at Wal-Mart.

Anonymous said...

In America it is the same way in most cases. I have never been forced to buy anything. I have been given everything. I have been in business for a month and haven't bought much yet because of my finances before I started. Actually my mentor and sponsor invested their own money by helping me start.

Anonymous said...

eat a brick, fucking prick!

**proud Amway hater**

Anonymous said...

I was there as well. The writer of this bog seems to be bitter because of some wrong business practices in association with his uplines. Dispite what some guy tells you (upline) we ll have minds of our own to make decisions wisely and you are a business owner like any other in this business. If you opporate your business purely on what is suggested blindly without taking things with a grain of salt and surrounding yourself with wise coucil then your business will be lke a treadmill. Running a bussiness is like managing your house income. Assets vs liabilities. If you have more liabilities than assets than you will fail and go nowhere. Dont buy stuff and spend, you have to sell. That means getting customers FIRST! Before sponsoring someone. That also means teaching the people to get customers FIRST before buying anything just as you do. If your customer base is higher income than your liabilities (things you buy) you will have a profitable business and you can then be effective in teaching others these BASIC principles of business ownership. Its sad if you were told anything other than that or perceived anything other than that but that should not prevent you not to make the same mistakes in the future or to blame the "system" as falty when you control how you chose to run your business.

Anonymous said...

I am a freshman business major in college and i will take the, let me emphasize, very achievable 5 year plan of owning my business over "climbing the corporate ladder" for 40 years before I find myself laid off with a poor retirement portfolio any day. As a young college student, particularly as a business major, I have seen that students such as I are taught how to be employees our entire lives by professors who have very rarely had any business experience of their own. With a little bit of intelligent research any rational non-biased person can decipher that the route of entrepreneurship makes sense. It is a fact that the original tax code was written to benefit business owners. It is also fact that in 2010 only 2% of all Americans at 65, the retirement age, could retire. Of that 2%, 85% were business owners. So it is factually evident that business ownership is the way to go if financial security ever crossed your mind. After looking at the compensation plan available through the Amway business with no bias, it becomes very evident that this is the best-compesating, least risky business currently available. You speak of the "treadmill" process of investment and "operating at a loss for years," in your article. These phrases struck me because of the success I am seeing in business owners all around me, and the monstrous lack of success you must of had to be operating at a loss for such a long period of time. It is a fact that more millionaires come out of the Amway business than any other business in America. This proves that the business works, so it must have been you that did not work. I am curious as to how long you were actually an involved and attentive business owner because after being in the business for a year while not investing more than seven hours a week or more than $200 monthly, I have had tremendous success. I am also learning from experienced and successful business owners as opposed to employee-minded professors. A business owner in my upline, who is a 20 year-old junior in college, will make at least 75k next year in secondary income and will graduate as a financially secure and financially smart 22 year-old. We make money work for us, as opposed to trading time for money as most of America does. In an economically struggling America, I would think that a business plan that allows anyone to make $500 to $1000 monthly in the first 2-6 months should be shared rather than slandered. I am disappointed that anyone would take the time to post an article slandering one of the most successful business plans available, instead of building their own business for their and their families future. I hope this shed some light on you misinformation, and I hope that you have heard all this before from someone pursuing their dreams just like me. God Bless-Anonymous Successful Business Owner

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

tilt, tilt, tilt...

Anonymous said...

Ignorance of this level must be physically painful.

Anonymous said...

I drank the kool-aid and came back. It is possible.

Anonymous said...

I applaud you! Some people can be so ignorant ... Thank you for shedding light.

Joecool said...

People who join amway are ignorant

Anonymous said...

Actually the big DeVos himself did kick out a huge organization for faulty business practices, and did take a huge pay cut. There was a big law suit over it, and it actually cost him more money to keep those scammers out, what does THAT say about him?

Anonymous said...

This is all talk of cash, has vision been lost? Does no one here think more then just cash? What is Amway? A successful pyramid scheme that works for the 1-5 percent who are indeed great sales men. Its just like selling bad stock on the market. Only there is no fraud due to the fact that you are selling to new "customers" as well as creating IBO's that cannot fight back.... Who is this helping? The nutritional facts are a bogus argument, the fact that anyone can be a rich IBO under Amway has no substantial evidence backing it apart from a cult-ish type atmosphere accompanied with a large amount of unfulfilled promises... I am really trying to give this a try, or at least another look but it just makes me mad. Time is money, as simple as that statement is, i personally i don't know how much more time i can waste investing into "Amway's livelihood" then that of my own....

Anonymous said...

nothing--except making up for what he DIDN'T do. ;)

Anonymous said...

And I was just here to witness him take the next step. Go John

Anonymous said...

What they get from sponsors is just pv so they would not take a pay cut bc they would still be at the top of the bonus scale. The bv only comes from their sales so. No pay cut, you just have to much time

Tom Adsit said...

Amway is not a scam, it is a legit business, I am not in the business. I was at one time, If you just google it and read all the Jackass's that say bad things about it, then you will think it is not a good business to get in, or that 99% of the people involved will fail, which it true, but have you bothered to find out how many other business's fail in the first 5 years?? 95% or more, so go ahead and invest thousands on a traditional business, and we will see what happens to ya in 5 years. You may find some people in the business that will tell you you need this and that and go here and there, which may be a good idea, because yes you need to be educated in what you are doing... just keep in mind these are suggestions. Let me ask you this, if you want to be a Lawyer and dont pay to go to law school, how far do you think you will get?? The Amway business changed my life for the better, I was just inactive, so dropped out, nothing against the business, it's not Amway's fault that I did not succeed, after all it was my business. Most people in the business never show the plan to anyone, dog is sick, stubbed my toe, etc. really it is just fear, which leads to excuses, and what makes people sore about the Amway business is it make you see who you really are, and some dont like it and then just simply blame Amway on their failures. Does the business work? yes and you will have 100% success if you work it. the key is WORK it consistently. How long would you have your job if you did not work it consistently?? I am better off since I was in the business, I learned alot about leadership, and it did indeed change my life. I am not filthy rich, as far as money goes, but using the things I learned from the Amway business, I am very successful. I have a wonderful wife, and great daughter, a job where I am valued because of the principles that I learned and applied to my life, I am 100% dept free, including my house. and I have some nice toys. So that being said, I do not like when people bash the Amway business because they were in for 3 months or even several years and failed. Only a Jackass blames someone else for their failures. Again, go out and invest in a traditional business and we will see how far you are in 5 years. I am sure you are a very nice and reasonable person, however before you attack something you know nothing about. you may want to think about this for a bit.... JMO Tom Very happy X Amway distributor.

Joecool said...

It's good that you learned some things from being in Amway and got something out of it but you experience is simply more evidence of the vast majority of Amway folks failing to make any money.

I know a lot about the Amway business. I was in it and I've been researching it and debating its merits for many years.

Thomas Crawford said...

whats wrong with working at Walmart?

Anonymous said...

I live in El Paso and we are low income city and I've seen Hispanics in their 30s and 20s who have succeded! 21 year old is top bonus level. Did it in 1 year. Our Emerald is Hispanic and did it in 3years.

Joecool said...

It's good that some people succeed, but there are many downline losing money at the same time. For each emerald, there are at least hundreds of people who are making nothing or losing money.

Unknown said...

Where's your evidence to support that? How many years have you been part of the business? You say you're well education on it but honestly, I don't believe you are. When people get sponsored, their upline receives nothing from them getting started or even after they've been part of the business for years. Yes, every time some one gets sponsored and they're driving PV all the way up line, upline doesn't make their money alone with just that. If upline isn't investing into their own business and directing customers to their own business account, they don't get paid regardless of the amount of PV that is driving through their LOS. Sponsoring helps move up on the bonus scale so you can get a bigger percentage of YOUR OWN BUSINESS. So if you're not doing your part with buying your own products or getting customers to buy from you too, then yes, its a waste of money. I've only been in this business for a year along with my personal mentors and we've both have witnessed TWO of our uplines being successfully. One of them it took 10 years and the other one took only 3 years. The results are determined by you and only you. If you want it bad enough, you'll put in the work and see the fruit of your labor faster than someone who says they want it but aren't really doing much to even get to their desired goal. I've seen a couple go to the top of the bonus scale within just 4 months! Success is determined by you. Not by a system that was put together to show you the path. Its up to you to follow that path to success.

Joecool said...

Typically, when someone gets sponsored as a "business builder", upline makes money because the new business owner still usually purchase products, which drives up PV, and then business builders are expected to purchase tools, which directly profits the upline diamonds.

John Doe said...

Unknown said, "When people get sponsored, their upline receives nothing from them getting started or even after they've been part of the business for years. Yes, every time some one gets sponsored and they're driving PV all the way up line, upline doesn't make their money alone with just that."

Wow, I'm not sure if you refuse to proofread, or if you really didn't realize how bizarre this statement is. You just claimed upline doesn't receive anything from sponsoring, but they do receive something from you realize how unequivocally flawed your logic is here?

Now, let's get into the stuff you are wrong about. Upline gets paid as soon as their downline spends money on Amway products PERIOD. It doesn't matter if it is day 1, or day 1,000...upline gets paid every time a downline spends their dollars on Amway products. Also, this is where the bulk of upline's money comes from! If upline only gets money back from spending money on Amway products, then they will lose all of their money! The only way to make money is to recruit, recruit, recruit, because finding retail customers is nearly impossible.

Unknown said, "If upline isn't investing into their own business and directing customers to their own business account, they don't get paid regardless of the amount of PV that is driving through their LOS." as well as, "So if you're not doing your part with buying your own products or getting customers to buy from you too, then yes, its a waste of money."

Oi vey, the programming has gotten to you...

You are not investing if you are buying products for your own personal consumption PERIOD. That makes you a CUSTOMER not a DISTRIBUTOR. If you make sales from directing people to your website, then you should not spend a DIME on products yourself...that isn't how sales works, that isn't how business works, that isn't how any of this works! You have been brainwashed into purchasing overpriced products, and you have been brainwashed to believe it is helping your business...

If I were to open a car dealership, and I told my sales force the only way to make money is to buy my cars, and teach other people to becomes part of the sales force, because then you can get a bonus every time they buy a car from me...what do you think would happen? They would laugh in my face! This is the exact same thing you are doing with bad Amway products. You are describing a PYRAMID SCHEME! If you are self-consuming and teaching others to self-consume below you while generating a profit, then that is a pyramid...PERIOD!

Unknown said, "Success is determined by you. Not by a system that was put together to show you the path. Its up to you to follow that path to success."

No it isn't, success is a mathematically impossible scenario. This is more brainwashed jargon BS that your upline fed to you to keep you loyal. If you recruit 5 people, and they all recruit 5 people, and so can only do that 13x before everyone on the planet would be in the business! Most of the Amway presentations ask you to try and get 12 people! THAT'S INSANE! There is no "path to success", there is only destruction and despair as you are caught on the never-ending treadmill of self-consumption and failure...RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

Anonymous said...

How could you "lose money" when all you are doing is redirecting your spending to another location that pays you...I'm lost to see how the money you are already spending in a different location being invested into your own business can be considered a loss? Just saying!

John Doe said...


That different location in which you are buying products is not from you, it is from Amway. You pay more for generic products that have the same quality as thing you would find from Walmart, and you get a pathetic rebate check at the end of the month if you "qualify" by spending enough.

You are also forced to pay a monthly membership for the "privilege" of shopping with Amway, and you have to attend meetings, listen to tapes, and show Amway to others in order to have the "opportunity" to make a little more return on the monthly purchases. All of these expenses make Amway more time consuming, as well as more expensive than shopping anywhere else.

If you shop somewhere else you do not have to sign a contract, meet a monthly purchasing requirement, listen to propaganda tapes, go to other people's houses or approach people randomly, and the products are CHEAPER!

Maybe you should be asking, why the heck would I shop at Amway? Everything else is simply better! Just saying!

Unknown said...

I think it's kind of funny that this guy tries to talk badly about Amway but the only people who have posted any comments on here support it. Me thinks somebody likes to get a gym membership, not workout, and then blame the gym for his lack of results!

Joecool said...

Amway is more like a gym membership where you join, did everything the trainer advised only to find out you gained weight an got more flabby.

Anonymous said...

Someone that even utters the words pyramid scheme is too ignorant to even talk about business.

For those other than this poster, ask why is a Pyramid? Besides a structure out of Egypt hahaha people have gotten the idea of it being the top of the latter. The top person makes all the money. Well in a traditional corporate business structure that's exactly what a business is. The Owner/CEO makes the top dollar and the money trickles down.

Ask yourself
1. Do you have a boss? Someone above you?
2. Do you make more or less money than they do?
3. Unless replacing them can or or will you ever make more money than your boss or CEO working where you work?

No you won't and can't as an employee there.

The structure with owning an Amway business of your own means you will work with others and grow your business and have many people within your down line. Like. Franchise you want more than just one.
If you owned a 7-11 and your friend Joe started
a 7-11 franchise also but had 3 locations and you only had 1 location. The question is who makes more money? You or Joe?
Joe of course. Same in owning an amway business. You can start your business before Joe but if Joe creates more volume in his business than you do is yours he makes more money than you I.E. not a pryhamid.

When ignorant people say pryhamid scheme, what they mean is a ponsey scheme which is something totally different. It's the movement of money and sales of ideas. No actually product is involved. They are illegal and generally get shut down in 6 months.

Amway is a manufacture! That's what Amway is. It's the means. The supplies. We, Me, You are the business. So you either work your business and make success happen with the helpful hand of an active growing mentor or you don't. Either way your failure is on you and in this amazing and forgiving business you can't fail unless you straight quit!

Some people go Diamond in 2 years. Some people go Diamond after 20 years. The thing is they did it. The time didn't matter to the winning soul that accomplished it! Because the lifestyle and income of an Amway Diamond isn't matched anywhere else!!!

One thing for sure is I don't care if it took me 30 years to go Diamond because staying at a job I would NEVER EVER even have a chance to live a Diamond life style. So if I'm 50 living a Diamond lifestyle I'll take it. I'd rather work at that than just at a job and work until I physically can't or die!!!

One amazing fact is it won't take me until I'm 50! My husband and I will both retire in our 30's!!!

Don't listen to dream steelers and haters. Get facts and information from an active growing IBO! Not Annonymous people online!!!

Seriously. Do you even research the job you work at!? Like what kind of company are you at now? If you googled it and found haters would you quit? I doubt it cuz you need that paycheck right!? So seriously why wouldn't you get informed by real people about literally the most incredible opportunity you'll probably ever see in your life?

Get Facts. Not Opinions.

Anonymous said...

You can't lose money... you lose money by going out to a bar and getting smashed and waking up with a hangover. That's losing money. Purchasing products from amway is the same as going to Walmart. You buy what you need! Then the suggestions to go to a conference or something isn't a lose of money. Going to a Taylor Swift concert is a lose of money
(nothing against Taylor ����❤️)
You gain valuable information and principals. You can't lose money. You're just spending the money you'd spend anyway another way. The thing is. If you're TAKING ACTION and APPLY what you learn you'll start making money also.

You actually have to do stuff to make money. Crazy I know.

So those that quit and wanna hate!

Did you work at getting customers? Like more than one time. How many people and businessss did you share your products and business with? How many people knew about your business? And did you talk to them and explain things to them? Did you show them your website or just text them a link?

Did you read the books suggested or did you decide to spend all your money on Starbucks 5x a week instead of educating yourself?

What did you do to create success for yourself? Did you do anything?

Did you make one phone call a week and tell yourself "IM KILLING IT!" But get mad you made like $5????


Work Ethic <--- the action
Integrity <--- You
Accountability <--- are you accountable or an excuse maker?

Don't hate! Just check yourself.

Ask if your actions are duplicatable!? Are they or were they?

Anonymous said...

Nope that's not true with all organizations.
There are 1000's of organizations linked to Amway. Research the organizations. Amway's amazing the people you're working with is a different story. My upline I've known for years and watched her grow. She's invested lots of money into samples and gifts for me and my downlines! When I first started my business I'm sure she invested $$$ hundreds into me and gave me her time. Her upline did the same and so on until we made the money to invest into our downlines and samples and things. She helped me make money before I had to invest more.

So no don't lump your group in with all of them. Our team is the best!!!

Just like the NFL some teams crush it some don't. So don't judge the whole NFL off one team.


I love my upline and so do the other hundreds of downlines she has and thousands of people in our organization and people even in others. Find a great team and group of people.

Anonymous said...


I know right!!!?

Anonymous said...

The Anonymous broad who wrote in at 3:20 PM is beyond belief. If this is the mentality of the average IBO, Amway is truly a loony-bin.

She can't spell:

"latter" (ladder)
"pryhamid" (pyramid)
"ponsey" (Ponzi)
"steelers" (stealers)
"Annonymous" (Anonymous)

And she actually thinks that she and her husband will retire as Diamonds by the age of 30. P.T. Barnum was right -- there's a sucker born every minute.

Anonymous said...

What is with these Ambots? Are they high on those nutrient supplements?
So much BS