Tuesday, January 24, 2012

Amway Financial Freedom?

When I was an IBO, I often saw my upline diamond driving around town dressed in a business suit. I used to wonder why he keeps working if he can "walk away" and collect residual income? My sponsor told me that the diamond only works because he cares about his downline and wants to help them. So there are two possible scenarios, the diamond is working to help his downline out of a genuine concern for them, or possibly he is working because he has to! The only difference now is that the diamond works the nite and/or graveyard shift, because many IBOs are building the business after the complete their day jobs. This is probably why diamonds sleep until the "crack of noon", because they are working all night!

Now Amway has stated that the average diamond earns about $147,000 a year. That is a decent income, but after yaxes and paying for basic expenses such as medical and dental insurance, the average diamond probably lives a very middle class lifestyle. Keep in mind that a large portion of a diamond's income comes in the form of an annual bonus, thus a diamond's monthly income may be quite small. Yes, diamonds may have other sources of income such as speaking engagements and income from standing orders and functions. But this income depends on the diamond's continued appearances and efforts.

So is it likely that a diamond is "free"? I would have to conclude that a diamond is not free, and may actually have to spend more time maintaining his group than if the diamond simply had a 9-5 job. For one thing, a diamond needs to maintain a personal group to keep qualifying for bonuses. With a poor retention rate in Amway, I am fairly sure that a diamond spends much time recruiting personally sponsored IBOs to maintain this group. Additionally, a diamond must help his six or more groups of downline platinums to maintain their businesses or face the possibility of falling out of qualification. My former diamond dropped down to the emerald level but has since re-qualified at diamond. A diamond must also dedicate time to reward up and coming movers and shakers, to keep them motivated. I got to spend time with my upline diamond when I was considered a promising up and coming pin.

In order to continue to receive tools income, a diamond must also travel to numerous functions and speaking engagements. Although the tools income allegedly doubles a diamond's income, it also adds a lot of expenses, especially if the diamond and his family travel first class to show off the diamond lifestyle, and stays in 5 star hotels. It is probably why diamonds need free transportation to and from the airport and why they stay with friends when traveling as much as possible.

After breaking down projected income and considering projected expenses, I can only conclude that a diamond probably lives a middle to upper middle class lifestyle, and probably works as much as a man with a 9-5 job, except that a diamond works nites and weekends. A good portrait of this is shown in Ruth Carter's book (Amway Motivational Organizations: Behind The Smoke and Mirrors). In the book, the diamond had a net income of over $300,000, but lived in debt, could barely pay his mortgage, and was always on the run from one function to the next. It is very expensive and time consuming to travel from city to city showing off your freedom and diamond lifestyle.

Is this the freedom you are seeking?

43 comments:

Lucas said...

Well I read ad read this and I must say that you are a bit out of your mind. My mom and dad are diamonds for over 15 years. They live in 2 continents have a house in Poland and in Canada and this year are buying a house in Florida. Now imagine how much money it costs to have all these houses. Its is far more than $150,000 a year. I am doing this business my sister is doing this business and I know many diamonds that are very rich thanks to amway. So would you rather work for somebody and build their business and never won it or have your own business and later on give it to your kids. Really take a look about the facts about amway since you were an IBO and you did not do anything in this business you did not achieve anything you dont anything about this business

Joecool said...

Sounds like your parents are good at selling tools to unsuspecting downline who don't know that the tools don't work and that Amway is a poor business opportunity. So how are you and your sister doing in Amway? Don't you feel bad ripping people off?

Anonymous said...

hey mucus lucas....FUCK OFF!

**proud Amway hater**

Anonymous said...

Hey Lucas ..
I am 21% level ..my parents are doing this buisness..and i m doing this buisness i wanted to know that after achieving diamond level in this buisness if the person stops working does he still gets the money..means if he don't work after achieving diamond level he still get those money and cheques..continuously for the whole life

anonymous said...

We were at the 4000 level with eagle parameters, too. And it was hard work. My husband and I had day jobs and most of our STPs were done after work and on weekends. Then there were the functions which took more of our time. What about the CDs and the books, bringing income for the uplines. No matter how much I did the math we were not profitable at all...all 4 years. What really got me and what opened our eyes was the guilt we felt sharing our losing business to others.

Joecool said...

Thank you for sharing that. I also realized it pretty quickly. I thought I could make good money but the upline misrepresented the earnings from the business.

Craig Williams said...

Let's face it folks most of you are brought up to believe a JOB is the only way to make money. You go through life blaming others for your failures and make excuses. I agree with the haters here no MLM or Networking company is for you! A Job is for you because you don't have the knowledge, motivation or common sense to be a business owner of any kind, that's why you chose to work for peanuts and vote for people that lie to you more than any upline ever did.

Go ahead blame the tools business for your failures in life but Amway is a good company. They're a supplier of products....period. So you got in business with some con artists....shame on you. So you never made a million dollars in the few months you spent doing very little to build a real business....shame on you. Sorry I've discovered you can change a lot of things in life but you can't change stinking thinking.

Ever notice how all the negative folks always post as anonymous? What you hiding from.

Craig Williams
http://www.homebusinessmoneytalks.com

Joecool said...

What's wrong with a job? At least it pays the bills and feeds the family. In Amway, you are paying Amway for the right to sell their crappy products and then you are paying con artists for training,

Wow big talk about not posting anonymous. I guess I'm not anonymous because I'm Joe Cool.

Craig Williams said...

Nothing wrong with a job as long as you're comfortable with being broke, in debt and need a bank to be partners in everything you do in life. Most live 90 days from bankruptcy, not for me. Credit has made most settle in life... but watch what happens when that credit is gone and that day is coming folks! Imagine what is your life going to be like without the ability to use any credit?

Jobs are great if that's the life you want....but don't hold it against others because they don't believe what you do. That's what makes America great we all have the freedom to do what we want and think what we want...Right? You may want to check out www.MLMGods.com and educate yourself to the fact many more people have become Financially Free in MLM than those holding down jobs. Jobs were not designed to make you wealthy.

Joecool said...

Jobs are good. You earn money that you can count on. Business is fine too as lon as you have a good product or service.

It's Amway and MLM that are poor business choices where the vast majority end up losing time and money.

Jobs are not designed to make you wealthy? Nothing is designed to make you wealthy. Many pro athletes end up broke because they don't know how to manage money.

I have a job. I earn a good living and will be retirng in a few years with a solid pension of approximately $50K per year, plus about 500K in my 401K plan. And I accomplished that with a job. And when I was young, I had a second job that was used to built up my 401K plan.

That's better than the vast majority of IBOs.

Craig Williams said...

Are you the one to decide for others what are good choices? Retiring in a few years? I hope your plans come out the way you think but just imagine what if your 401K vanishes overnight? Don't think that can happen? Now don't lie to people here there is no such thing as a "Solid Pension". You don't want to mislead people into thinking that's secure or guaranteed. You're right 500K is better than most do congratulations......but for a lifetime of work it's peanuts.

I'm betting you had a bad experience with Amway years ago because you bought into some con artists lies and deception. Look in the mirror at who's to blame for that and hold yourself accountable rather than trying to blame someone or something.

You're right on one point it's not what you make but what you keep, most spend everything they make again it's their choice to do that nobody forced them.

Here's my prediction keep it in mind for the future! Our 401K plans are going vanish overnight in the near future, no there will be no warning. Only then will you realize who the true enemy of the people are.

One last thought....wouldn't it be a better Country if people complained and held Politicians accountable like they do MLM's. No, instead they continue to vote for liars and chose to spend their time and energy complaining about some silly MLM because at one point in their life they were taken in by a con artist. As the old saying goes.... Society is simply a reflection of it's leadership....I rest my case look at what we have today!

Joecool said...

Craig, I don't decide anything for anyone. If you want to do Amway, go for it. I advise that you do your due diligence instead of blindly following advice from people who show you slideshows of wealth while they may actually be broke.

I was in Amway some years ago, and got bad advice from people who "had my best interest at heart". Actually they lied.

Luckily, when I was young, I followed some advice from an uncle and worked a second job which allowed me to invest more than the average 25 year old into my 401K and I later got a government job with the 457 plan. I'll be retiring with a pension that is guaranteed (I had to contribute) plus I have 450K now and in two years when I retire, 500K or more plus my pension at the age of 55. Not many people achieve that. You can say I am lying but I could say the same about your Amway diamonds who say they are living large on residual income.

I was in Amway and I was at a pretty high level. I did everything my upline advised. Even then I had no net profit because all he money went into paying for more training ( at their advice). After a few months, I realixed I was being scammed and I quit.

Luckiliy, I did not stop investing in my retirement plans and I did not try to take any loans to spend on Amway.

Craig Williams said...

Welcome to today's world where everywhere in life there are liars and con artists. As the old saying goes buyer beware!

Society is simply a reflection of it's leadership.....boy are we in trouble. You think your retirement is safe? Good luck with that one there's a reason most of our people in congress and the senate have offshore bank accounts and the working people in this country will soon learn that lesson. Think you can trust your own government?

Joecool said...

I can trust my savings and other sources of income much more than I could trust an Amway business to deliver those same things.

Amway retirees are like sasquatch. Many have heard about it, many have allegedly seen it but nobody has provided bonafide proof that they exist.

Craig Williams said...

You know I find it strange that anyone who works for the Government, States, Counties or local governments are MLM haters? Why is it they feel the need to "Warn" others about this bad thing MLM? Yet none of them attempt to hold their own elected officials accountable for anything and spend no energy complaining about what they've done to this country over the last 50 years.

There are many people in Amway and hundreds of other MLM companies that are financially free and debt free that I personally have known over the last 15 years. It takes commitment and work to build any of them and yes there are con artists in all of them just like everything else in this life.
Done right with honesty and integrity and not hyped up to be some get rich quick deal MLM can be a great zero risk retirement plan. Even Forbes has said he thinks MLM is a great retirement plan for average people without a lot to invest in a traditional business where there is also no guarantee of success.

Out of all the MLM's Amway has the worst public image because they did not put a stop to the tools business which hurt a lot of people....shame on them but they're paying the price for that.

You ever ask yourself why so many of our Congress and Senate members have offshore bank accounts? A couple are on record as saying they don't trust the U.S banks anymore. History repeats itself so all you need do is look back in our history and you can see the future!

Joecool said...

Dude, who said I don't feel the need to hold political leaders accountable? I attend public hearings and make comments as well. I don't hate MLM, but far too many use MLM to exploit others. If people just bought and sold a few items, I have no problem with that. I don't like people lying to thousands of people and prospering on their hopes and dreams that MLM will not fulfill..

Where are these financially free people in Amway? I agree that the owners are likely to be well off but why do diamonds quit or keep working until they die? Can you name 10 people who built Amway and "walked away" into financial freedom? I bet you can't. Being a diamond is very likely a part or full time job and the hours of work are at night when IBOs are off from their jobs.

How would you know if our congress has offshore bank accounts? Maybe it's because the US pays practically zero interest on money in the bank?

Amway is full of lies and myths and it looks like you actually believe a lot of them.

I don't doubt that a few people make great money in Amway but I highly doubt it's "residual income" where they can sit on beaches doing nothing and collecting money. With the amount of people joining and quitting Amway, it's likely a full time endeavor to keep recruiting and replacing those who quit.

Craig Williams said...

I'm sorry if you believe what you have is walk away income and secure. Time will be the factor that will determine which of of us right. I say you've been lied to just like you were in Amway but you just haven't figured that one out yet!

Hang on dude....soon you're going to learn the lesson of your life and it will be taught to you by a system you seem to trust....good luck.

As far as people making money in Amway there are a lot more than your mind will allow you to believe. Just because you couldn't make it work doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. MLM has created life changing results for tens of thousands of people. I'm sorry if you don't know any of them you're missing out on a lot of great people who are solving problems in life not creating them. Not sure what you think "Great Money" is? You've said what you've accomplished in your life which I said congratulations you've done better than the masses but I doubt it would fit into the category of "Great Money" in the minds of financially free people.

Sorry, I'm not a follower of anyone or anything that's why God gave me my own brain.
I realize there are sharks in all the waters out there that will pick your pocket clean, even in the Stock Market.

I do believe it makes more sense for me to spend money I'm spending at my local stores in my own business. There I have the opportunity to earn income referring others to shop there... plus I like the products better! Guess what? You build that kind of business your products you were paying for at your local store become FREE to you! It's that simple, no hype, no lies, no meetings or tools to buy. Yes the products I purchase monthly cost me about $30 per month more than I would pay at Walmart for the same type of products. Small price to pay for what I feel are better products plus as an entrepreneur I can create income. Guess what you talk about walk away income isn't possible with MLM because you can never quit working? Hello....if you invest money you make from your MLM into things just like you've done there is your walk away secure income for retirement if there is truly such a thing. Using this common sense logic I personally know 5 kids, I call them kids because they're all under 28 years old and they're Multi-Millionaires because they invested what they made. They had open minds and didn't follow the masses advice or way of thinking and yes I'm jealous I wish at 28 my mind would have been that open. Mlm has fulfilled more hopes and dreams than most jobs today will ever do!

Don't get yourself into a frenzy....I'm not talking about Amway, I don't do Amway, I don't support the Amway business but that doesn't mean people that do can't make money or be successful. As always, buyers beware of the sharks!

MLM can set you free so folks don't listen to the masses unless you want what the masses have. No MLM isn't for everyone and that's ok we all have choices!

Joecool said...

Where did I say I had walk away income? But yeah, my situation is much more secure than having an Amway business where most people who sign up do nothing and out of those who actually work, 95% quit within a few years.

You spend bout $30 more on Amway products than you would at WalMart. First of all I don't believe that's true. I'll give you one example. A large bottle of Shampoo at Walmart costs about $2. Amway's 10 oz. bottle is about $9 or so? Amway is not even close to WalMart is prices for similar products. You can argue quality or whatever, but consumers know where to find a bargain. At WalMart.

MLM can set you free? OK, here';s my challenge for you. Name and provide evidence of 10 people who are "free" because they built MLM. Many have heard of these folks but nobody could name anyone who was financially free because of MLM income.

Someone once named a guy in Amway who was allegedly free and then disappeared what I asked for evidence of his claim.

Craig Williams said...

Joecool you're a legend in your own mind.

What you spend on the products depends on which products buy. You get what you pay for in this life. To eat healthy you need to spend more money but you don't have to do that either if you don't want to live to collect your retirement.

If you truly believe there are not 10 people in MLM that are financially free, I'm sorry for you man. Your mind is closed and nobody is going to change it because you know it all.

Just for your education I'll put you in touch with someone that will set you straight about the industry. I must warn you He's not as nice as me when it comes to negative thinking folks. http://networkmarketingpro.com/ Eric has over 200,000 followers how may you got? Eric has helped thousands of people become free, how many have you helped?

Here's another place you can educate yourself and get in touch with lots of network marketers who have a lot more than you'll ever have with your closed mind.
www.mlmgods.com Here's more than 10 I will give you a bonus a good friend of mine Art Manville with a company called Xango. Multi Millionaire because of MLM and yes it's walk away income because he invested wisely!

Many people who have worked for the Government a long time seem to have your attitude...interesting.

Joecool said...

Craig, I'm nothing special. Never said I was. But I got scammed by Amway IBOs and I use my spare time to blog and inform others of what I experieced.

As predicted, you could not name 10, or even 1 person who is financially free from MLM income. Truth be told, I'm sure there are some. They would be the MLM owners and maybe a few long time MLMers who got in a long time ago.

But even if there are some you could not name any.

Your friend Eric with 200 followers. Is he making money in MLM exclusively or is he making his money selling MLM training while pretending to make money in MLM. Open the books and we'll see. You see, that's the same lies the Amway folks told. That they got rich from Amway when in reality, they made half of their income or more from selling MLM training while pretending they made it in Amway.

Fact of the matter is YOU DON't KNOW. These folks may appear wealthy and might even be well off, but they are unlikely to be making their money exclusively from MLM. MLM is the front for the real business which is elling training.

But you do't know how much they make because they don't show you their books.

A triple diamond in Amway filed bankruptcy (chapter 7) which became public documents, showing he made at least half of his income from selling training. And he didn't make nearly the amount of money he portrayed in his meetings,

So go ahead, have someone show us their schedule C business tax return (not their personal finances) and we'll see. It will show their income and their profits and expenses. Then you know if they could "walk away" and not work while raking in bank.

You see, in MLM when half or more of your downline quits each year, how can you collect "residual income"?

Joecool said...

Oh, and working for the government where I contribute to my retirement? It's in the bank. If the government runs short, theyr print more money to pay me. Cha-ching. Not sure why that bothers you. At least I had to work and contribute to my own retirement pay. I'm not sitting on my ass collecting welfare payments.

Craig Williams said...

You said it all "I Was Scammed by Amway" years ago and now I'm saving the world from them! That's the problem in this country....nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions, just blame someone else. You got scammed because you listened to what you "Wanted To Hear" not the truth! That's how scam artists work they tell the folks what they want to hear to accomplish their goals! The masses DO NOT want to truth! They only elect liars into office, the politician who tells the truth doesn't have a chance! The entire sales industry lies to people daily....if they told them the truth they would never buy anything! As a real estate broker for many years I learned that lesson.....tell them the truth about what they could expect to get for their home you never got the listing! Why? Because there was always another agent that would tell them what they "Wanted To Hear" to get the listing. Guess what? 3 months down the road the person that lied to them makes a commission because the owners accept an offer at price the honest agent was telling them from day one! Who loses here? The honest person.......the liars win again. No sorry most want to be lied to and that's why we have so many liars today....the public demands it. Yea, the truth sometimes hurts but folks have to start looking in the mirror at who's to blame! The truth you your questions about people that make lots of money in MLM are out there if you wanted the truth. Contact the folks above I gave you websites to, feed them your line and they will blow your negative right out of the water. We know you won't do that because the "Truth" isn't what you're looking for.

As I said a society is simply a reflection of it's leadership and look what we have today! 50 years of liars and greedy self centered people in office, the days of just printing more money are gone! Congratulations for the first time in the history of this Country a generation is leaving a mess that will not allow the younger generations to enjoy the quality of life we did. I'm frankly ashamed of the baby boomer generation and the mess they're leaving because of their 50 years of the ME attitude and not holding their elected officials accountable for anything the last 50 years!

News flash: Lots of millionaires go bankrupt in all walks of life even MLM. Downlines quit....yea so what that's what people do it's easy. Once again there you go finding anyone or anything to blame rather than yourself. Ever thought of running for office?

Joecool said...

Bullshit. Where did I say I was scammed by Amway and now I'm trying to save the world? How about Amway taking responsibility for their actions? The owner of Amway acknowledged that the tools were a big problem but he backed off when Amway sales dropped because he tried to fix the problem.

But thanks for confirming that the Amway leaders are liars. I agree with that.

Many millionaires go bankrupt? They normally don't go chapter 7. And if they do, they aren't teaching audiences about their financial acumen like these Amway liars. I mean leaders. LOL

I should contact the people you linked me to? Why? You can't prove they are financially free. And even if they are, they are just scam artists making their money off BS MLM training and not from MLM itself. Isn't that the truth?

Joecool said...

By the way. What have you accomplished in MLM where you can stand on your soap box and lecture me?

Craig Williams said...

As I said if you wanted the truth it's out there....but you don't want it you just want to spread your BS. You're telling lies when you say nobody makes money or is financially free kind like the pot calling the kettle black.

Anyone that wants a Government JOB and the SECURITY joe thinks it's provides go for it. Just don't spread you're "blame everybody else for your failures in life" negative attitude. Oh yea, they made you spend money and lied to you.

Where I stand in MLM is where Forbes stands on the subject. It's a great way for average people who want to build a retirement income with very little risk compared to traditional business ownership. You're the one on a soap box here telling everyone MLM is bad, evil and doesn't work. It does "Done Right".
http://www.businessforhome.org/2014/09/forbes-believes-mlm-is-one-of-the-most-significant-solutions-for-retirement/

Now who's advice do I take Forbes or Yours?

Joecool said...

Dude, you're the one lying. I never said nobody makes money. I know some people make money. Some make good money. But likely these folks are making money selling training using the MLM as a front to sell training.

You claim you are rich from MLM. You tell the audience that they can do it too. Just sign up for my cds and seminars and you'll learn the secret of making it big in MLM. In reality, the REAL money is made selling training.

Still, nobody, including YOU has provided zero evidence that anyone is rolling in residual income and living financially free from MLM income.

You like Forbes? Read this

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0811/050.html

Woodward founded Team in 2001 and built it into one of the fastest-growing tool vendors associated with Amway. Senior management at Amway had long feared that tool vendors risked being tabbed illegal pyramids and dragging the company into a legal morass. Still, the company tolerates them because tool vendors generate sales for Amway. Woodward claims Team’s tools generated Amway sales of $200 million and net profits of $60 million last year.

The relationship between Amway and Woodward began to deteriorate a few years ago when Team began promoting its tools as a money-making opportunity in themselves. That message has the potential to get both Team and Amway in legal hot water. Amway, meanwhile, already had legal headaches. The law firm of courtroom tiger David Boies is now maintaining a California class action against Amway in which former distributors have accused it of being an illegal pyramid. The company faces similar claims in India.

Joecool said...

BTW, Craig, nice dodge. What have you accomplished in MLM?

Joecool said...

More from Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/best/2001/0625/040_print.html

Before you're tempted by Quixtar's sales pitches or fancy Web pages, remember that most reps in such organizations spend more time recruiting than selling. And many lose money. "I spent between $3,000 and $5,000 on the business and had four people down line (under) me, but overall I still lost money," says Don DeLeon, a 23-year-old former IBO from Waipahu, Hawaii.

Take a lesson from DeLeon, who gave up being an IBO to go back to school. By joining organizations like Quixtar, you're more likely to fill your shelves with bottles of shampoo than to fill your bank account with cash.

Joecool said...

More from Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2014/04/28/tax-court-denies-amway-losses-again/

Amway IBOs get hosed in tax court.

You know Craig, Forbes does have good advice about Amway.

Joecool said...

Another of Craig's lies:

"You're the one on a soap box here telling everyone MLM is bad, evil and doesn't work".

See Craig, at least when I call you a liar, I can back it up with your direct quote. You call me a liar and misquote me or don't provide any evidence.

You can tell all the feel good stories you want about MLM but income disclosures show that most of these people would be better off working a part time minimum wage job.

Craig Williams said...

It's clear here people... joecool does work for the Government! He has nothing better to do than spread his negative thinking. He must do a lot of it as he's working his GOVERNMENT JOB. Or maybe "This Is" his job to destroy any dreams anyone may have that fits outside the JOB market. That's typical another example of why we need to downsize government.

I've never seen anyone so consumed with hate towards something, I feel for ya man.

If this isn't your job man get help before it's to late! Life is to short to waste it on negative people without a chance in hell of ever opening their closed minds.

Joecool said...

Do you still believe in Forbes?

Dude, you're brainwashed. How can I steal anyone's dreams? You come to this blog onw you own. Nobody forces you to come here and read what I've written. I share my experiences and opinions and you can take it or leave it.

And sorry, my job is not blogging. This is a hobby I do in my spare time which takes maybe 15 minutes a day.

At least I'm not clinging to and promoting false hopes and dreams like you are.

My mind is open. You have yet to make a good case why MLM is a good idea.

Joecool said...

Craig, you know what I often say on my blog? When Amway and MLM defenders run out of reasonable debate items, they resort to personal attacks and insults.

While there is not perfect solution to retirement, you can't deny that a pension, even if earned from the government, is beneficial to far far more people than MLM.

If people sell MLM and actually make money to supplement their incomes, more power to them. But the fact is that most people can't or aren't capable of selling so MLM is not a real viable way of earnng money.

BTW, this is true. My retirement plan has enough equity where my stable value investment is already earning me nearly $1000 a month. When I stop working, I"ll live on my savings for a while and collect that income.

How is MLM better than that for the average Joe?

Craig Williams said...

Debate is useless with closed minds or elected officials have proven that to be a fact over the last 50 years! Yes, when they can't get you to think like they do they resort to personal attacks. As I said society is a reflection of it's leadership.

A pension? How about most will retire on Social Security because the only pension most employers offer are the ones people take upon themselves to start and contribute to. Only the best of JOBS have good pension plans, there are many more that don't by far.

Most people aren't entrepreneurs, they're workers that choose to collect paychecks and those people should never go into MLM or Business if they don't have to skills needed to succeeed. It's the way MLM is marketed to people as some get rich quick deal that's bad.

I don't say it's better for the average joe unless the average joe is willing to learn the skills needed. If they're willing to learn and apply themselves than anything is possible. If they don't want to be in sales, stay out of MLM period.

It's simply an option that's helped thousands of people change their life! You can go look at just about any MLM company and get the income stats. Just like any business it takes work, skills, commitment and like in any business a lot of people fail because they lack some of the skills needed. Not everyone that starts a traditional business succeeds, hell banks fail, auto manufactures fail but in our new age the tax payers bail them out these days!

Joecool said...

Of course MLM takes work. It takes work, skill and a little bit of luck to succeed. But the problem I have with MLM is that you need downline to reach higher levels. I think we can agree there. But these dowlines join and drop out regularly. The ones who remain might work really hard but can't succeed because of the reasons I already said earlier.

MLM has a bad reputation, it's hard to sponor people and it's hard to sell products. Because MLM bonuses are built into the cost, you must charge more than a retailer like WalMart or Target.

Then if your MLM charges for training, it's an expense that IBOs cannot overcome, except for a very few exceptional IBOs who can overcome these issues and sponsor a group.

Craig Williams said...

I'm going to join Amway! Thanks for all your encouragement here it helped me make up my mind as to what MLM I should join!

As far as MLM goes Amway is the best game in town. Your ONLY cost about $65 per year. No Autoships required, no tools to buy, no meetings to attend, no fees for company websites, don't like a product send it back at Amways expense with 100% money back and an online business building system to build with where I never leave home! No required minimus to buy, simply buy what you need when you need it just like Joe does at his local stores! No this isn't Walmart.

Now I have personally been in over 30 different companies over 20 years and I'm saying Amway is the best now! No it's not for people that aren't willing to do some work and get paid on results like most sales commission jobs. Want to get paid for simply showing up everyday call Joe he can help you with that one! I'm only in the business of building Entrepreneurs.

Thank God we live in a free country and all have choices!

Joecool said...

Good luck. I hope you'll keep posting so we can track your progress. Not a single person who commented on my blog has ever come back to say they reached platinum level or higher but maybe you'll be the very first!!

Craig Williams said...

We're all going to need good luck because we're going to learn another lesson about how much our own government lies to us! As I said before and have preached for years to people, 401K plans and the stock market are going to destroy a lot of people's dreams many more that Amway ever could.

You're going to see a true pyramid scheme in action in the coming months the last 2 days is just the start of paying the price for no accountability over the last 50 years!

Hang on life as we've known it is about to change!

Joecool said...

How has the government lied to anyone about 401Ks? Government doesn't offer 401K plans. The stock market is not run by the government either.

I agree that government can be corrupt with liars in power (like our president Obama)

But the stock market is not a pyramid scheme. Amway is.

If you sell/consume $300 worth of products you generate about $100 in bonus from Amway. You get $10 and your uplines share the $90. Who said you do the work and you get paid?

Craig Williams said...

Let's face it life is a pyramid scheme! Can you make more than your boss at work or the owner of a company as an employee?

401K plans are sold to the workers as secure retirement plans. The stock market is manipulated by the super wealthy. Have you ever heard about insider trading....talk about a stacked deck. I can recall the day where my employer paid into my pension plan, now days at best they'll match what you put in. No life hasn't got better for the working class and it's not likely to in the future.

If I sell/consume $300 worth of walmart products what do I get? That's the difference if I want to simply be a consumer then Walmart is the better deal. If I want have a business and create income it's not such a great deal. If Walmart sells a consumer $300 in products what do you think their "Real Profit" after factoring in overhead expenses is on those sales? Think it's more than $10? With Amway I can work my way up to where I'm getting the $90 just like a job you can't start at the top.

Joecool said...

Life is not a pyramid, even if your boss earns more than you. Your boss doesn't earn by exploiting your co workers. Now if your boss was mandating that you buy training from him which costed more than your salary, that's another story.

And employer matching your 401K is still a good deal.

If Walmart sells $300 in goods, their gross profit is probably $60 to $70.
Amway sells $300 and their gross profit is probably $150. That's why Amway cannot possibly compete with WalMart in prices.

Ynnej said...

Just a question. If Amway is a scam, why do you think the company has been operating for more than 40years?

Btw, totally agree with you about the job. Job provides stability. It provides you FIXED INCOME every month. Your salary is probably so high that you're so rich that you don't even have to worry about your life. Then that is good. Job suits you. Go ahead and continue what u do because I am pretty sure you're destined to work for people :)


Oh ya but anyway, if one day if your parents need you when they are ill, or your kids need you, will you be able to be there for them? Will you be able to help them to pay off their medical bills? Do you even have time to take care of them when they need you the most if you are stucked in your job?


You see, Amway is an opportunity which provides hope to people and to helps people life to be better.
But not everyone can see the business potential I understand. Because not everyone is born with a business mind and have mental toughness to sustain in this business. However, you should not destroy one's hope just because u have failed in the business before. Give other people a chance to succeed in life.

Joecool said...

To answer your question, the mafia is illegal but why have they been operating for over 100 years?

A job may not pay you as much as you like but it's better than Amway. Most people in Amway make nothing or suffer losses.