Amway - Tools, Functions, Motivation, Real Estate Gurus - All Bunk?

Based on my experience in Amway, my blogging experience, and observation of other people who give financial advice such as real estate gurus who teach you to buy property with no money down, or others such as Robert Kiyosaki for that matter, all show testimonials of sucessful people. Obviously they do not show you the vast majority of people who try their systems and fail.

It is my informed opinion that whether it is Amway, WWDB, BWW, N21, real estate or the cashflow business, the vast majority of people who try these systems do not make any kind of significant income. Sure, some do, and those are shown as the possibilities. But if you watch infomercials, you will see in small print on the bottom of the screen, "unique experience", you results may vary. I believe that a similar message used to be at the end of Amway diamond recordings as well.

These systems in general do not work for various reasons. Many people simply do not have the acumen to work the system. Or the system has too many variables for the system to work, or the system calls for things beyond your control. For example, success in Amway generally requires you to sponsor others, something that is beyond the control of most people. Add in the lazy and people who are hoipng for a quick score and it is understandable that most will fail. But these systems are often set up where the majority simply cannot all succeed. Nowhere is that more true than the Amway business where the pyramidal compensation plan nearly guarantees failure for the lower level IBOs.

So what can someone do? Well, it may no be as sexy or attractive but a part time job and investing and saving might be something to think about. Even a part time business where you focus on selling products for a profit might work. It just seems prudent to avoid these "systems" as the primary beneficiary of these "systems" are the ones who directly profit from them.

Amway - Whose Dreams Are Being Fulfilled?

One of the issues I have with the Amway plan is that the newest IBO, possibly the one who does the most "Work", receives the smallest compensation. Amway pays about 32% of their income back in the form of bonuses. An IBO who does 100 PV receives a 3% bonus and somewhere, uplines and sponsors receive the rest. Some of the upline may not have even met the IBO who actually did the work. Is that really fair and is that a level playing field? What do some of these uplines do to deserve the lion's share of the bonus you worked to get? Yes, the upline diamond may show the plan in an open meeting, which may help you, but then again, you pay for entrance into that meeting.

Many uplines will talk about dreams and fulfilling your dreams. But if an IBO would stop and think for a moment, you can easily see that you are building the dreams of your upline, and not your own. You receive a tiny portion of the bonus for the volume that you move, and then in addition, if you are on the system, then you are also paying upline in the form of tool purchases for the priviledge of giving them bonuses with your product purchases.

It is why your upline diamonds can parade around on stage with designer suits and show you their fancy cars and mansions and other toys. It is because they are cashing in on your efforts. You are making their dreams come true. Your dedication to moving volume and purchasing standing orders are fulfilling dreams. The upline dreams. Yes, someday you can hope to have your own group of downline to exploit for your own benefit, but unless you are adding members to your group, you will never achieve the kinds of dreams that uplines talk about. In the meantime though, you are definitely helping someone upline achieve their dreams with every function you attend. Ironically, the upline leaders will tell you to never quit, even if they don't know your personal circumstances.

Here's a challenge for IBOs and/or prospects who are being recruited into the Amway business. 100 PV will cost around $300 a month and dedication to the tools system will cost you around $200 a month on average. Would you not be better off simply writing a check to your upline for $100 and not even joining? Would you not be better off staying home and watching television instead of joining? If you read all of the information available on this blog and still decide to join, goo d luck to you, but remember this: Whose dreams are being fulfilled by your participation?
Yours or your upline?

Amway - Avoid All Negatives?

One of the things that I was taught as an IBO, and I believe is still taught to IBOs is that you should avoid negative. Don't fill your head with negative thoughts. Only filter in positive by reading inspiring AMO approved books, listen to feel good standing orders and attend functions where you can gain positive association. Don't watch the news or other television as you may see negative. With this kind of teaching, I can easily see why some groups in Amway have been called cults or cultlike.

Basically, what upline is teaching you to do is become apathetic. Don't pay attention to the news, don't keep up with current events. Only listen to cds cut by Amway diamonds. Yet some of these same folks want you tell you who to vote for or influence you on various decisions. Deprive you of information and then influence you on important decisions. Did I mention that some groups in Amway have been called cults or cultlike?

There have been studioes showing that people need some "stress" in their lives. Obviously, too much stress can lead to health problemd, but having zero stress can be detrimental as well. If you lived in a sterile environment all of your life, exposure to the real world could prove fatal to you as your body could not fight off weak germs. Not being able to feel any pain could also be damaging to your body as minor injuries can become life threatening infections if not cared for.

While avoiding negatives in your life may seem like sound advice, I would take this with a grain of salt. Sure, you don't want to be overwhelmed with negatives, but the complete absence of any negative will make it hard to be able to do any critical thinking of your own. Critical thinking is important to your decision making process. If you are truly a business owner, you will have to make some important decisions to run an effective business. Avoiding negative and shutting off your critical thinking may not be in your best interest.

Do you really think that living in a sterile Amway business only environment is the way to go?

Amway - How To Make Critics Go Away?

To this day, Amway has many critics and supporters. Many supporters become critics if they leave the Amway business. Some Amway apologists are claiming victory recently as they say there are few new internet critics. But yet, it doesn't appear that Amway is suddenly growing by leaps and bounds. The name Amway doesn't bring visions of sugarplums in most people's heads.

What does the Amway name bring? People often think of "pyramid" or "scam". Some people are negative about the Amway opportunity and they don't even know why. Many people however, were involved in Amway at one time, or knows someone who had a bad experience. While many people's experience may have little to do with the Amway corporation, surely the motivational groups such as N21, BWW, or WWDB has had an impact on people's experience with Amway. Getting tricked into attending meetings or being lied to will lead to a bad experience. So will ridiculous snake oil campaigns like perfect water.

But has Amway done anything significant about IBO abuses? Surely they must know something about this. Someone from Amway routinely visits my blog to see what I am writing. But as far as I know, even the most abusive uplines have gone unpunished.

I have some suggestions to curb Amway criticism. Transparency. Why not inform prospects of how many diamonds are currently qualified? Why not say how many IBOs are active or registered? Why not report North American sales? Why not say what the typical IBO earns? It would prevent critics and supporters from extrapolating information and making their own possibly inaccurate conclusions. Of course Amway is a private company and therefore will probably release only information that is required by law. And that is their right. But if that is the case, then criticism will continue.

Like the AMO saying goes, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. With no apparent changes forthcoming from Amway, the valid criticism continues........

Amway - Merry Christmas From Joecool

I hope all my readers and their families have a safe and wonderful Christmas Holiday!

Enjoy this day as we celebrate the birth of our Lord Jesus!

P.S. And a Happy New Year Too!

Amway - Defenders Of Amway?

One thing that is certain, based on my blogging experience is that Amway/Quixtar is a highly debatable issue. There are some established critics of Amway, as well as established Amway defenders. The difference between the two however, differ significantly. Most critics point out flaws with the business opportunity and the ineffective training systems. Amway's biggest defenders have at times resorted to personal attacks and side tracking the discussions. One of Amway's biggest defenders was even called a "cyber bully" by an Amway corporate blogger. Many issues are very plain for all to see. I will elaborate on these issues.

The compensation plan is set up for many downline to support a few upline. Many IBOs at the platinum level report that they have approximately 100 downline. This supports the notion that only about 1% of IBOs ever reach platinum, and only a small fraction of 1% ever reach levels above platinum.

The tools systems are highly ineffective. Not counting people who do nothing, even the most dedicated of IBOs have a less than a 1% chance of achieving any significant income from Amway, even if they do what is advised by upline.

Uplines often abuse their downline financially. There is much evidence that some upline teach bad business practices, for which they are rewarded (tool profit). Some of this bad advice is to buy from yourself, channel any profits into buying more tools, and simply advising a failing IBO to continue to dedicate themselves to the system. Amway defenders make ridiculous claims that these abuses don't exist simply because of a lack of testimonies on the internet by former IBOs. We know that functions across the country may have hundreds of thousands of IBOs who hear the same bad advice, but because of shame or because they were sponsored by family and friends, they walk away and do not share their bad experiences.

Amway is apparently aware of some of these abuses, but there is no visible evidence that abuses have been dealt with in any significant manner. (See Postma Memo or Directly Speaking). Although some measures were taken such as accreditation, these measures appear to be cosmetic. The fact that Amway reported that there are about 4 IBOs to every one customer indicates that they must know that IBOs are not making enough sales to qualify for their bonuses. But I have yet to hear about an IBO who was denied a bonus for not meeting the sales requirement.

These are the real issues. If these issues are addressed, most critics, including myself, will go away. In my informed opinion, Amway doesn't need defenders, they need to look at taking corrective actions.

Amway - Is Your Business A Joke?

I hear Amway supporters often mention that you will have a real business if you treat it like one. It is my observation that most IBOs do not treat their businesses like a real one. It is also my opinion that the Amway business itself is flawed and many IBOs, in their zeal to sponsor downline, do crazy things at times, such as tricking people into meetings.

Many IBOs do not bother to qualify their prospects. They will sponsor anyone who is breathing. It could be due to uplines making the business seem easy. For example, I have heard that going platinum is so easy that someone's dog can go platinum. Another mistake IBOs make is they do not look at the likelihood of an IBO succeeding. They will sponsor anyone, anywhere. Like real stores, opening a new one creates competition and I don't know of any IBOs who take this into consideration before recruiting a new prospect.

New recruits are also encouraged to partake in the teaching system, regardless of their expectations and business goals. This participation in the system is what often leads to IBO failure. They spend more on tools than what they generate in income. This heavily contributes to the poor retention rate among IBOs. Even IBOs who can progress and make some money will be simply channeling their profits to upline by their tools consumption. It is my informed guess that an IBO must reach the 4000 to platinum level before they start to break even. And If I might add, probably less than 1% of IBOs reach the platinum level so you are already facing overwhelming odds just to reach the break even point in Amway.

Here's the real test for an IBO. Walk into a bank. Speak to a loan officer and show the loan officer the 6-4-2 or 9-4-2 plan, whichever plan your group uses. And see if the loan officer will grant you a loan based on that plan. It is more likely that you be laughed out of the bank.

Do you have a real business or a joke? You decide.

Amway - What's Your Business Worth?

Many many people see the Amway plan, sign up in the hopes that Amway income will help them fulfill their dreams and that they will walk away from their jobs and collect lifelong residual income while walking the beaches of the world. Sadly, most IBOs will never even sponsor a single downline. These IBOs may continue in the business for a while but will eventually quit when they see the writing on the wall.

But wait, you're an "independent business owner". So instead of quitting, why not sell your Amway business? I wonder if any IBOs actually think about what their business is worth. I mean a diamond could sell their business and live large happily ever after right? Here's some food for thought. Why are there instance of diamonds quitting or resigning from Amway? Why would they just quit when they could either walk away and collect an income "forever" or sell the business?

I believe diamonds quit and resign because their business is worth very little or nothing. And most Amway businesses do not even generate a net profit. For IBOs who are seriously pondering on this very important message, try looking up this topic in Amway's rules. There are very complicated steps to be taken when selling your AMway business as each person upline must be offered ownership (To the best of my understanding). This process can go on for a long time and the attrition of your business could render it worthless before you can find a buyer, if you have a buyer at all. Also, if you quit, the downline in your group would be surrendered to the immediate upline anyway. So why would your upline want to buy your business?

So IBOs, I ask you. What is your business worth?

Amway - Get Rich Quick?

One thing many IBOs will talk about is how they were told that they would have to work hard and that they would not get rich quick in the Amway business. That Amway was not a get rich quick scheme. I do believe this, but what many Amway IBOs and Amway enthusiasts will not mention is that somewhere in the plan or when they were recruited, they were either directly told or implied that they would eventually "get rich" by joining Amway, whether it was "quick" or not.

If people were told that they would not get rich/wealthy and that they would have to work hard and that they would have to overcome the name reputation, how many people would join? As evidence to prove my point, many IBOs and former IBOs know about a major function occuring around this time of the year called "Winter Conference". Back in my IBO days, it was called "Dreamnite". A handful of diamonds would host a dinner and they would show slideshows of extravagant wealth. Since in my days, IBOs were told there was NO PROFIT IN TOOLS, it was implied that all the luxurious trappings were a result of Amway income.

The slide show was shown while the song "I wanna be rich" was playing in the background. There were pictures of jet skis, yachts, boats, jets, fancy cars, golf courses and designer suits and mansions. The audience was told that diamonds paid for everything in cash. The diamonds would stand on stage and tell the audience that they will work 24/7 but it was so worth it to go diamond. That you could catch up on sleep when you are a diamond. That the IBOs in the audience needed to hurry up and join them so they would have more playmates.

Looking back, it was a nice function. It got people to dream of having all of this material wealth. Sadly, I don't think a single one of the audience I was in ever got close to achieving that kind of success. In fact, the LOS I was in, WWDB, didn't have many new diamonds since I left Amway and in fact I think some diamonds have disappeared! Maybe they became negative losers like myself?

Yes, when you are prospected in Amway, the speaker may tell you that Amway is not
get rich quick.

What they don't tell you is that you probably won't become rich at all.

Amway - IBOs Are My Real Friends?

You hang out with friends, generally people you like and have similar interests. You have good and bad times, but your true friends are there for you when you need them. You move residences, your friends are there to help you move. They may play a round of golf with you, or watch some sporting events, dinners, backyard barbeques, etc. These are folks you will likely end up retiring with and enjoying your golden years.

But suddenly, you get enticed to join Amway. You see the "chance" to get rich, with a shortcut (not get rich quick, but a "shortcut"). You sign up and your sponsor is your new "best" friend. Most of the people you enjoyed being with think Amway is a questionable venture to get involved in. Suddenly, because of what you have been told or taught, you view these same nice people as "broke" or "losers", simply because they do not share the same ambition of untold wealth working 12-15 hours a weeek. Suddenly, you friends become prospects, or people you want to sponsor so you start recruiting them. Some may join, but most won't. Suddenly you are immersed in recruitment meetings, functions, and avoiding "negative", which is people and events that do not support your Amway business.

Now you are missing birthday parties, barbeques, and other social events. Your social events are now recruitment meetings, seminars and Amway business related events. You are taught that these events can be put off and your gratification delayed. You can do whatever you want when you go diamond. (Even though there me be only one (1) diamond out of every ten or twenty thousand IBOs) Your dedication will pay off right? Sadly, for most people, even very dedicated people, all they will see is losses on their yearly tax returns, mainly due to the purchase of cds, books, voicemail and function tickets. But these are your "friends" right?

Here's my take on it. Try missing a few meetings or functions. Stop buying cds and see how many "friends" remain from the business. It is likely that your upline will claim that you walked away from the friendship by slowing down on the "system". If that happens, then you have conditional friends, or fairweather friends. They are your "friends" while you are pursuing the same cause. They are your friends when you are attending functions. Are they there for you in bad times?

A short while after I attended my last function (I was still an IBO, just not a business builder), my dad passed away. Not a single one of my IBO "friends" bothered to attend the memorial service. Not a single one of my IBO friends called or dropped by the home to pay their respects. All of my "real" friends, who saw through the AMO smoke and mirrors called to talk to me and/or attended the memorial service.

Are your IBO friends conditional friends? Mine were.

Amway - Buy From Yourself Doesn't Work - Tools Don't Work

One of the biggest shams taught by some upline is the nearly exclusive "buy from yourself" philosophy. I'm not saying that supporting your business is a bad idea, but are you really supporting yout own business? If your upline teaches this, you are being mislead and I will explain why.

When you think you are buying from yourself, you are really buying from Amway. Amway makes the profit from the sales. If you buy enough, they toss you a small rebate. An IBO is in reality, a distributor or a middleman. Also, if you are a new IBO at the 100 PV level, you will receive 3% in the form of a bonus while your uplines and sponsor will split up approximately 29 to 30% in bonuses off your efforts.

Think of it this way. If your spouse was in the business of making and selling cookies, would you make money by eating all of the cookies? Even if you received a small rebate for cookie making materials, you would not profit by eating all the cookies yourself. You would have to sell the cookies to customers to have cash in your pockets. I truly do not understand how IBOs get duped into thinking they can be successful and earn money buy purchasing and consuming Amway products without selling much. Amway's own numbers suggest that IBOs do not sell much, except to their own downline and to themselves.

And upline who sell tools that teach this method are more than likely selling you a flawed system that nearly guarantees you will lose money. A rare few IBOs will emerge now and then who can overcome overwhelming odds and barriers and reach higher levels in the business, but I would have to say that more than 99% of IBOs who sign up will never even get close to emerald or diamond. Sadly, the buy from yourself system will only profit the higher level distributors, as well as your purchase of tools, which rewards upline for teaching a flawed system.

Amway - CORE Doesn't Work - Here's Why

Breakdown of CORE and why it doesn’t work. Here are the CORE steps. Some groups may have variations of CORE, but this is generally what many groups use:

1 - Show the Plan (10-15 per month)
2 - Retail the Products (10 customers @10 PV each)
3 – Tapes/cds
4 - Books
5- Functions (attend all)
6 - Accountability
7 - Counsel with Upline (Be teachable!)
8 - Buy 100% of your own products
9 – Communikate

Many upline will tell you that your success is nearly 100% guaranteed if you follow these steps for 2-5 years. Some Amway enthusiasts will tell you that 6 months of this activity will nearly assure you of a platinum level business. Certain steps are within the IBO’s control, such as reading every day and listening to cds, and attending functions. It is also easy enough to be accountable, counsel with upline, buy your own products, and use KATE (voicemail).

Here’s where an IBO’s efforts will break down. Showing the plan and retailing products. And remember, if you cannot do these steps then you are not considered “CORE” and your upline will likely tell you that it is your own fault and that you simply haven’t been CORE, therefore you did not achieve success. There is some truth in this but let me expose the system in a different angle.

Amway has a spotty reputation in the US. I don’t think anyone can dispute this fact. Therefore, for the vast majority of people, being able to show the plan 10-15 times per month is a nearly impossible task. If you are able to do this, you are a really good salesman or a good liar. In this scenario, the IBO is already successful, but not because of CORE, but simply because the IBO has the gift of being able to convince people into seeing the plan. But for many IBOs, they may contact hundreds of people and not be able to get anyone to see the plan. Even IBOs who follow upline advice on how to contact will probably not be able to show 10-15 plans per month. Thus this IBO, who is doing the work, will not be able to succeed. The system will blame the IBO, but the reality is that the IBO has too big of a disadvantage to overcome.

Secondly, with high prices (on average) and with a spotty reputation, most IBOs are unable to retail products. Amway itself has admitted that less than 4% of Amway products are sold to customers (non IBOs). Thus most IBOs are unable to sell products, therefore they are not CORE, therefore upline will blame the IBO for failure..

What if an IBO contacts 1000 people and cannot get 10 people to see the plan? Upline will claim that IBO is not CORE and therefore it is personal failure of the IBO. IMO, the only reason why upline can claim that CORE works is because in order to do the CORE steps consistently, you have to already be at a certain level of success. The vast majority of IBOs cannot and will never be able to reach that level.

That is the myth and the deception that many uplines will use to attract recruits. That each IBO can do the CORE steps. When only a fraction of 1% ever reach the level of platinum or higher, the numbers strongly support what is written here. Apologists are welcome to try and prove me wrong, but they can't. :D

Amway - Your Realistic Chance Of Success?

One thing that many Amway promoters don't like to talk about is what your realistic chances of success are. I will define success as Diamond because that is what the outcome of the 6-4-2 and 2-5 year plan. Of course you may be able to earn some income at lower levels, but my understanding is that diamond is where the real money from Amway and the tools start rolling in. And I can also understand why people promoting Amway do not discuss your realistic chances of winning. Afterall, lottery promoters do not show you the millions of losers, they only parade the winners in front of you.

Many people, including Amway enthusiasts will agree that many IBO do little or nothing. Some people never even place an order or make any attempt to do any business. For the purpose of this article, I am not speaking about these folks. I am talking about people who actually put in some effort to the business.

For many people who want to make an earnest effort, they will purchase and hopefully sell a few items with the goal of reaching 100 PV. For that effort, you will receive approximately $10 from Amway and whatever profit you might have earned by selling products. Here's the catch. You will likely need to pay website fees in excess of the $10 you earn from Amway. For the more dedicated IBOs, you may be payin for voicemail, standing orders, book of the month, and possibly attending functions. These expenses will exceed your income month after month unless you are able to increase your volume by selling enough products and/or sponsoring downline who buy and sell products.

Because Amway has to include the IBO bonuses in their prices, the products come at a premium price. Thus sales to non IBOs are relatively low. Without sales to non IBOs, the only other way to generate more volume is to sponsor people who will buy and sell products. But due to past unethical IBO behavior, getting people to see the Amway sales and marketing plan may be a challenge. Also, most IBOs are unable to sponsor a single downline.

Some Amway enthusiasts will claim that if you do their CORE steps for 2-5 years consistently, that you are likely to succeed. Sound easy, but becaue of the factors I have identified, some of these steps are impossible to do consistently. It's not like walking a mile each day where you have control of the step. People will likely fail in showing the plan and sponsoring others because they cannot find enough people who are willing to see an Amway plan. Many, possibly most other IBOs can and will do certain steps consistently such as listening to a CD daily and reading a success book. But because of a spotty reputation in the US, IBOs will very likely fail to be able to show enough plans to succeed.

Your realistic chance of success? My informed guess is less than 1 tenth of 1 percent. That's the likelihood of going diamond. Your chance of going platinum? My informed guess will be less than 1/2 of 1 percent. If you think you can beat those odds, go for it. For most people, it might be wise to look into other opportunities.

Amway - Tapes/CDs, Books And Seminars Are The Key To Success?

I recently saw a commentary which I thought was very significant about the Amway "educational" system. This system is not run by Amway, but the for profit motivational systems such as BWW, WWDB, LTD, N21 et al. In many cases, these systems are touted as the key to an IBO's success. Unfortunately, there is no unbiased evidence that I know of to suggest that these materials do anything to help an IBO progress towards their business goals. Furthermore, these materials cost money. If upline didn't succeed until downline succeed, woudn't they want everyone moving along, tools or not? As far as I know, uplines don't offer much help unless you are on tools.

Also, what is interesting is that IBOs do not have a indivudual training plan. Uplines are often refered to as "mentors". I disagree. A mentor would work with someone one on one and make an assessment as to how to train someone. That isn't what happens for most IBOs.

Instead the upline will generalize all of their downline and tell that that books, tapes/cds and seminars is how they should learn. That eliminates many people from succeeding already. Many people do not learn in these types of learning environments. Many people have difficulty in picking up information from a tape or cd. Some upline may not be good at transfering information to downline in this manner as well.

But still, upline convinces the masses that a one size fits all teaching system. They may also encourage some people to overspend on these materials, without any regard to an IBO's finances or progression in the business. Techinically, a sponsor is supposed to train any downline without cost.

I wonder what sincere efforts your uplines make to train and to mentor downline? Flying to a seminar where they might make $100,000 for a weekend doesn't seem like much personal attention when perhaps over 10,000 may be in attendance.

These training materials might be the key to success. But that success is much more likely to be enjoyed by the people who are profiting by selling these materials, and not those who are purchasing them.

Amway - WWDB Dream Building?

I have been in touch with an IBO who is in WWDB. Apparently dream building is a big part of WWDB. While it is good to have goals and dreams, I find it somewhat interesting to know that only a select few people in WWDB ever reached these goals and dreams because of their involvement with WWDB and Amway. In fact, despite claims by our upline that WWDB was the "best" and more profitable LOS, there is little or no evidence that this is true. I have not seen many new diamonds emerge from WWDB, but on the contrary, I have seen evidence of WWDB diamonds having their homes foreclosed and/or involvement with bankruptucy.

In my opinion, this dream building approach is simply a tactic to get a prospect interested in the opportunity and then the upline will tell the prospect that the way to achieve these dreams is to be dedicated to the system (WWDB). This is the same system that has few new diamonds and diamonds in apparent financial difficulty. These dreams may also help to retain some IBOs in the system as it would seem that quitting Amway and WWDB means these dreams are no longer attainable.

If you are an information seeker or a struggling IBO, a question you may want to consider is whether your dedication to Amway and WWDB progressing you towards these stated dream or if you are simply channeling your money into products and training materials which helps achieve other people's dreams?

Below is an excerpt from a WWDB IBO about dreambuilding:


So that’s why we have pictures and words of affirmation around our house. When you come into our condo you’ll see words like “Overcome”, “do the opposite of the masses”, “The best is yet to come”, “Play Injured”, “Are you living a dream, or just living your life”, “Break through the wall of fear”, “We' re all in” and more. We believe these things motivate us and give us a dream. Then you’ll see stuff on our fridge like pictures of Kelowna where we want to live, Wineries, because we love wine, in my office you’ll see a picture of a Breitling Chronomat B01 watch because that’s the watch I want, you’ll see magazines with inspirational things in them that relate to us. It’s these things that keep our dreams alive.

It’s so important to do this whether you are building this business or not. This what i’m writing about is part of the 95% of what we do with World Wide Dreambuilders. The 5%, the Amway Global portion is the vehicle for the 95%. You need a dream, goals and passion so that you have something to work towards.

We’ve got BIG dreams, and so should you!

Amway Pin Winners?

I hear many Amway enthusiasts and apologists crowing about all the pin winners. Some of them speak about the thousands of new platinums and people moving up and on. But one point of contention where I think there is a lof of merit. In the US, there are very few new diamonds. I can't think of more than a handful of new diamonds in recent years.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, north american sales for Quixtar and now Amway (again) hasn't really grown. Amway stopped reporting seperate sales from North America and the rest of the world, but I believe North American sales have tapered off or even declined. I recall a message from an Amway corporate blogger confirming that the US diamond club held in Hawaii a few years back had 160 diamond businesses in attendance. That's not really much after 50 years of existance. I know that there was some Amway event recently where it was reported that 4000 diamonds were in attendance. I don't think there were many from the US, unless diamonds routinely turn down free trips to Hawaii.

But here's my main point about the pin winners. If Amway sales have not significantly increased, then it is probably unlikely that there are a lot of new pin winners, unless these new pin winners are simply replacing platinums or diamonds that are not currently qualified anymore. I believe the new pin winners and growth are occuring outside of the US. I believe it is because the Amway name has been put through the wringer by IBOs who may have tricked or lied to people about the opportunity, and due to abusive IBO leaders who were greedy and wanted to squeeze every cent from their doenline's pockets.

It would appear, that in the case of North America at least, new pin winners are simply replacing former pin winners who do not qualify anymore. It would appear that the "net" amount of success in all this is zero.

Amway - Failing Businesses Succeed By Opening More Stores?

After years of studying Amway and blogging, I've noticed some thing taught by IBO leaders that simply do not make any sense. It doesn't make sense business wise and it just doesn't add up. I know that sometimes, you need to think outside of the box and go against the grain to succeed, but some of the IBO practices are simply insane and it's no wonder that so many IBOs fail in their pursuit of their Amway "dream".

Most IBOs never sponsor a a single downline and relatively few products are sold to non IBOs. These are the reasons why most IBOs do not turn a profit but for some reason, many IBOs still seem to think that training materials are worth the money they pay for them.

Buy from yourself. A fairly common practice. It is okay to support your business, but if you are the primary or only customer, you won't make money. Any profit you might turn is coming out of your own pockets. I don't know of any successful stores where the primary customers are the owner and the store employees. Yet some IBOs think this is how they will succeed.

Sponsor others. So you are struggling as an IBO. But the key to success is to try to open other stores by sponsoring. As a famous Amway apologist likes to claim, you do nto get paid for sponsoring others. So why is this the emphasis for so many IBOs? Why would you think that opening more stroes will make you successful? Yes, it is a way to possibly generate more volume, but your "success" will only come by having a bunch of struggling businesses under you. Is that how you wish to succeed? Also, the quest to sponsor others is probably how Amway got a bad reputation when IBOs tricked people into attending recruitment meetings and/or being deceptive when invitig someone to see the plan.

Folks, you need customers to succeed. I live in Hawaii and when tourism is slow, our local economy suffers. It's a very similar concept to your Amway business. Without customers circulating money through your business, you will eventually go out of business.

Amway - Conventional Businesses Don't Profit For 5 Years?

One of the things I heard as an IBO and I believe is still said in some Amway meetings is that conventional businesses do not profit for up to five years. I don't know how true or untrue that is, but whether they do or not, how long does it take for an Amway business to profit?

Despite the small start up costs and the little to no overhead costs, most IBOs never turn a profit. I will acknowledge that many IBOs probably never do a single thing once they sign up. I believe there is an underlying story behind this as well, but I will move on. Out of the more serious IBOs, even in this group, most of them will never make a net profit if they are using tools.

Factoring the cost of the website, the voicemail, standing orders, books and functions and cds, IBOs simply get drained of their money a couple hundred of bucks a month. Amway earning profits on product purchases and someone upline earning profits on support materials that apparently do not work for the vast majority.

Toss in other challenges such as high prices for many prdocuts (higher than local retailers) and a spotty reputation from IBO behavior such as tricking people into meetings and you have an opportunity with nearly insurmountable handicaps. Yes, a few rare and usually charismatic people can overcome these odds, but only one or two out of tens of thousands are able to do so. And even those whe reach the pinnacle of diamond, may not be able to maintain qualification.

So I don't know the detailed statistics about how long it takes for a conventional business to turn a profit. It may take up to five year. But based on my experiences and some number crunching, I'd have to say that the vast majorty of Amway Business Owners NEVER TURN A PROFIT - EVER.

Amway - 3.4% Of Amway Products Are Sold To Customers?

What store can survive by self consuming 96.6% of their own goods? I don't know of any and that includes Amway businesses. Buying from yuorself makes you a customer and not a business. Here's the link and article:

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2008/01/couldnt_do_any_worse.php

Over on the Ada-tudes blog there was an article by Todd Krause which seemed to address some comments made on an earlier article he wrote about Quixtar sales. Anyway I found it a bit funny that he was addressing those who made statements to the effect that the corporation does not have the credibility to tell IBOs how to sell or build Quixtar/Amway businesses. Todd Krause agreed with the statements saying it was not their intention to go around IBO leaders.

Well in my opinion the corporation is doing more to teach IBOs how to sell a product then IBO leaders are. IBO leaders are concentrating on teaching IBOs how to sell a "system". One look at the numbers that only 3.4% of all Quixtar sales were sold to actual customers tells you how good the IBO leaders have been at teaching selling techniques. So I don't think the IBOs should concern themselves so much with where the teaching is coming from, 3.4% isn't exactly a high bar that has been set.

Amway - Life After Amway?

As I have stated in a previous post, I am a former Amway distributor, or IBO. While I was active, my life was consumed by Amway related activities. If I wasn't at a meeting or showing the plan, I was at coffee shops or at other public places looking to meet potential recruits to add to my group. I was in Worldwide Group at the time and I was always taught that we were "helping people".

Looking back, we didn't help anyone who didn't join the business. Even those who joined didn't actually receive "help". The help that my upline refered to was simply someone upline showing the plan and helping active IBOs to recruit others. Sometimes this was done for free and sometimes you paid (for open meetings). Every opportunity was used to look for recruits, even weddings and other social events.

When I finally realized that the Amway opportunity was not going to deliver lifelong residual income for me, and due to some conflict with my sponsor, I decided to leave the business. Well, all my lifelong Amway friends never spoke to me again. Most of my group quit except a few of them. Allegedly, one of them continued on in the business and allegedly reached the platinum level. All that means to me is this person spent tens of thousands of dollars on tools.

The really strange thing for me was after I left the Amway oppportunity and worldwide group, I suddenly realized how much extra time I had on my hands. I also realized that I had extra cash to save as my income wasn't being consumed by PV and support materials. I was able to save and invest some of that surplus and I am glad that I did today.

As time passed, I also read and heard about some of my crossline friends losing their homes and/or going bankrupt. I am fairly certain that their consumption of standing orders and function attendance was a major factor in their lives. I also discovered through various media that our WWDB leaders had lied to the downline about tool profits. They had said nobody made a profit from tools. I later found that some of them made most of their income from tools.

I also discovered later that some uplines lied about paying for their homes in cash, and who knows what they may be lying about today. I believe upline greed has led to many of the problems the business opportunity faces today. I started to learn about some of this back in 2003 - 2004 and I eventually registered as a member on Quixtar blog. I have been debating Amway since then.

The best discovery I have made was that there is indeed life after Amway. :P

Amway - Is Amway Your Hobby?

Many Anway IBOs get into the business with high expectations. They get in with oftentimes, a dream of early retirement, living a fabulous lifestyle, mansions, sports cars and "walking the beaches. In order to do thism IBOs are taught that they need to "plug into the system". So IBOs get on standing order, they attend all the meetings and functions, they read books and show the plan.

But because the Amway business has so many handicaps and shortfalls, the IBO soon falls into the trap of "playing Amway". The IBO will do their 100 PV, either by self consumption or selling, or a combination of the two, and will continue to listen to the cds or tapes, and will continue to attend every meeting. When I was an IBO, our group had many who did not sponsor a single person, yet they were at all of the meetings and functions. These folks, in my opinion, had Amway as a hobby.

A hobby is something you do in your spare time, usually something you enjoy. For many people, Amway meetings are a social event. It is evidenced when some people say they enjoy the meetings, being with "positive people", and they have become nicer as a result of their involvement. While this may or may not be a side benefit of the functions and meetings, it is not relative to the bottom line of a business. A business exists to make money. If a business is losing money, expenses are usually cut.

If you have been an IBO for more than a month or two, have you actually sponsored someone? If the excitement of being a new IBO has not resulted in acquiring new downline, it is unlikely that you will ever have a downline. If you have been in the system reading books, listening to stnding order and attending functions and showing the plan, and you have no results, you have Amway as a hobby and not a business. Don't feel bad, sponsoring other IBOs is not a common or easy feat. But as a business owner, you should think about your involvement in the business and if you find you are participating in a hobby rather than running a profitable business, then you should decide whether or not you are accomplishing what you set out to do.

Are you running a business (to make money) or are you playing Amway?

Amway - Buy From Yourself?

One of the apparently common practices among major IBO groups is still the concept of "buy from yourself". I believe IBO leaders teach this because most people are not familiar or not comfortable selling goods and services. Therefore, to teach buy from yourself makes the business an easier sell. In reality, an Amway IBO is simply a comissioned salesperson with no benefits. But presenting the opportunity that way is unlikely to yield results either, thus the buy from yourself has become a common practice.

Buying from youself makes you a customer and not a business owner. Buying from yourself doesn't generate your business a profit. Would you open a car dealership to buy a car? Now I am not suggesting that supporting your own business is a bad idea. What I am suggesting is if you are the primary or exclusive customer of your Amway business, then you aren't really running a business. You are simply a glorified customer.

What an IBO is really doing is paying his upline's bonuses. Amway overcharges more than 30% of the cost of their product. They have to do this in order to be able to pay IBO bonuses. Since most IBOs are at 100 PV or less, the lion's share of the bonuses earned are channeled upline when a purchase is made. It is not a level playing field as some IBO leaders might suggest.

What compounds the situation and makes it worse is when an IBO pays for standing order or attends functions where some of these IBO leaders may teach this bad business practice. You as an IBO already pverpay for products for which upline gets most of the bonus, but then the problem is compounded by IBOs paying to receive this bad advice. When I was an IBO, I heard speakers talk about skipping rent or mortgage payments to attend more functions, or having your family skip a meal so you can buy standing orders. Buying from yourself is just another example of bad advice given fro upline to downline. What makes it worse is that some uplines profit by giving bad advice.

Are you buying from yourself almost exclusively? Can you think of any truly successful business where the owner is the main or possibly the only customer? I can't think of any.

Amway - The Facade Of A Diamond Lifestyle?

Have you ever been to the set of a movie? You may see a mansion for example, but often, in movies, it will be only the front of the mansion. When you see the full picture, you would note that there is no mansion, but simply the facade or the front camera shot of a mansion. I believe this is what many diamonds are doing.

Going diamond. While certainly it is not the goal of all IBOs, it certainly is what many IBOs are hoping for. Diamonds are often portrayed as having no job, waking up at noon every day and basically living a lifestyle full of luxury and leisure. At least that's what is being portrayed. I certainly though so when I was an IBO. But now I can easily see through the illusion.

The illusion is set up, I believe as a recruiting tool. Afterall, living a middle class lifestyle with a modest income wouldn't be all that attracive would it? A young couple might think $4000 or $5000 a month is a great income, but the reality is that you won't be traveling the world a sipping Martinis all day long, even with an above average diamond income.

Certainly there may be some tenured crown ambassador types who might make over a million dollars a year from Amway, but I do believe this is the exception and not the rule. I would suspect that most diamonds live average middle class lifestyles but simply provide the illusion of great wealth at functions or at recruitment meetings.

When you simply do the math, the diamond lifestyle doesn't add up. Think about taxes, medical insurance, private school for kids and other expenses. How much do you think you would need to earn to pay for these expenses and still be able to save some money? We are currently seeing bits and pieces of evidence that my claim may indeed be true. Diamonds with homes foreclosing, diamonds selling off homes, a significant diamond filing for bankruptcy.

The writing is on the wall. Most IBOs simply choose not to see it.

Amway - IBOs Living in Denial?

So many IBOs are hard working and dedicated to their business. However, I believe they are simply living in denial. Most of them, even the hardest working IBOs are more than likely losing money, due to the system expenses. The system generally consists of voicemail, standing order, book of the month, meetings and functions.

When I was an IBO, I was losing money or braking even at best, but I always spoke about my "gross" income and did not mention the mounting costs of the system. I did as my upline taught, you see. I just figured I was helping others who would eventually copy me and we would all progress towards financial freedom and walking the beaches of the world. However, in retrospect, I see that I was just fooling myself and living in denial.

I believe there are still many IBOs out there showing the plans and working the system only to end up month after month with a net loss. I am writing this article hoping that some IBO will see it and be able to relate to what I experienced. I jut wish someone had spoken some sense into me sooner. It's easy to get sucked into the system because you are normally sponsored by someone know know and trust. But your sponsor is more than likely "NOT" trying to rip you off, but simply teaching what upline teaches. It's upline, in my opinion whose greed has ruined the business opportunity with their self serving advice. I hope this article helps some IBOs.

Amway - The Real Cost of Tools?

To my knowledge, there is no unbiased evidence that the tools used by IBOs actually work. Sure, Amway apologists will argue that everyone who "succeeds" uses the tools, but these same apologists will disregard the tens or hundreds of thousands who also use the tools but do not succeed. But what many do not notice is the hidden costs of the tools. I'm not talking strictly money. The tools costs an IBO valuable time as well.

Attending seminars, meetings, listening to standing orders, checking voicemail all takes up valuable time from an IBO's life. Factor in the cost and most IBOs who use tools end up with less time and money. Ironically, many IBOs may have joined Amway to gain more time and money. That time and money is supposed to come in the form of "passive income", something that very very few IBOs enjoy. I suspect that even big tenured diamonds may not have all the time and money as they like to portray. If they did, wouldn't more of them have walked away from the business to go and enjoy life?

I challenge IBOs to sit down and analyze the financial cost as well as the time commitments they sacrifice to build the business and ask yourselves if it is truly worth the cost? If you are perfectly honest with yourselves, I think you may find that your time and money is not well spent. But you as a business owner must look at the big picture and come up with your own conclusion. It is my opinion that nearly all IBOs will find that the real cost of the tools far exceeds what little benefits you may enjoy from the tools.

Amway - IBOs Lose Money Because Of The Tools

What are tools? Tools in reference to the Amway business usually consists of Books, CDs, Voicemail, Wesbite Hosting, and Functions. While the prices of these individual items may not seem exorbitant, the collective cost for these tools can run up to several hundred dollars a month. For extremely hard core IBOs, these tools can cost more than $400 a month on average, and perhaps for a casual partaker of functions, etc., perhaps they can get by for less than $100 a montt on average.

But in any case, when most (business building) IBOs are at 100 PV or so, which results in a $10 bonus, it is easy to see how most IBOs will lose money because of the tools. Even at 1000 PV, it is likely that a dedicated IBO will have a net loss in their Amway business. It is simple math, add up the tool expenses for any group and then add up the bonuses. In nearly every group, there will be a net loss.

Of course, someone upline is profitng from tools, thus the success you see on a stage is likely coming directly from the pockets of their downline. Sadly, most of these downline will never earn a net profit but will be told to never quit and encouraged to continue to invest into a black hole that will never pay them back and will nearly assure business failure in the long run. It is also sad that so many downline will be told these lies about future success by people who they consider trusted friends and mentors.

I would strongly encourage IBOs to look critically at their business and add up the cost of your expenses and compare that with your income. If the income is not growing steadily, then you may want to reconsider additional expenditures for tools. That is real business. If upline encourages you to buy more tools when you are losing money, maybe you should wonder whose best interest is at heart in teh advice you are receiving.

Joecool will be on vacation in Europe and Japan over the next two weeks. I would like my audience to note that my J-O-B is paying for this wonderful vacation. If I end up in Sweden, maybe I will pay IBOfightback a visit. LOL I'll return to my blogging duties later im November. I wish everyone well.

Amway - Why Do IBOs Justify Their Lack Of Success?

Other than Amway, I cannot think of any business where sales people or IBOs feel a need to justify their lack of success. I hear all kinds of crazy things such as how Amway saved a marriage or how an IBO has become a better person as a result of the Amway business. Now if your involvement in Amway did indeed save your marriage or made you a better person, that is a great side benefit. But the Amway opportunity is supposed to be a business and a business exists to make a profit. This is something that IBOs seem to overlook when they are involved.

I believe these "side benefits" are mentioned by upline as a diversion away from the fact that these IBOs aren't making any money. My upline used to say you get in for money but you stay in for friendships. They may also use the line that the Amway opportunity is not get rich quick. I believe that is because the upline wants you to stay in and expect you to purchase tools for a while.

But a very important question is why IBOs need to constantly justify their lack of success? Is it a good idea to be involved in an opportunity where you aren't turning a profit and need to justify the lack of success? Many IBOs blame themselves despite the fact that your upline may have asked for your trust and blind loyalty. You do what you are told but the upline leaders never take responsibility for an IBO's failure. It like playing a game of heads I win and tails you lose.

If you are new in the business, nobody expects you to be making a fortune overnite, but certainly a business that promote low or no overhead and a low start up cost, why shouldn't you be able to turn a profit within a few months?

Why do IBOs have to resort to rationalizing themselves with claims of concentration and/or quality? Apparently the general public doesn't agree, based on the lost sales to non IBOs. Seems the only ones who see a benefit in regular consumption of Amway goods are IBOs, who are hoping to reap financial rewards for doing so. Either your business is growing or it's not. No amount of justifying or rationalizing will change your bottom line. I just hope more IBOs and prospects will see this before it is too late.

Amway - What Level Playing Field?

One of the things my upline always seemed to be talking about was how Amway was a level playing field and that was because everyone starts at zero. While on the surface, that may sound reasonable, but when you dig deeper, you may find that it is not a level playing field and that the deck is stacked greatly in favor of your upline.

One of the points in the Amway plan was to eliminate the middle man in the distribution of products thus allowing an IBO to gain a bigger piece of the profits. While this may sound reasonable, what actually happens is an IBO is a prt of a system with even more middlemen taking a cut out of an IBO's efforts. If an IBO were to simply buy and re-sell a product, that IBO would get all of the profit. In Amway, the corporation pays about 31-33% back to the IBO force in commissions and bonuses. But a new IBO would get only a 3% commission (100 PV) and his sponsor and uplines would enjoy 28 - 30% of the commissions. The new IBO did the work, but got only a tiny percentage of the bonus. What's fair about that?

An IBO can eventually get a bigger piece of the commission by sponsoring downline and moving more volume. However, the newly sponsored IBOs end up in the same unfair position that the sponsoring IBO was previously in. Also, until you are at the 2500 or 4000 level, you probably won't even generate enough income to cover your business and system expenses. Also, because of Amway's reputation, especially in the US and Canada, it is very difficult to sponsor others. Most IBOs never sponsor a downline.

The playing field is not level. Upline may want you to think it is, but a closer looks reveals that it is heavily stacked in favor of the tenured uplines.

Amway - A Comparable "System"?

Many IBOs and Amway supporters adhere to the idea that their system works. As far as I know, there is zero unbiased evidence that the system works. The system generally consists of a website, voicemail, standing orders and seminars or functions, as well as meetings to show the plan, etc. While Amway supporters will claim that nearly everyone who succeeds is on the system, they won't mention how everyone who succeeds also has hundreds if not thousands of downlines who do not succeed, even with earnest effort in building the business using the stsem.

Edward O. Thorpe was a math professor at M.I.T. who studied and wrote a theory on Blackjack, and found that it was mathematically possible for a blackjack player to have an edge over the house in a game of blackjack. Casinos scoffed at the theory and said it was just that. A theory with no real life application. Well, Mr. Thorpe started playing small and found that his theory was correct. He was counting cards in blackjack and making consistent money. His book eventually became a best seller. The casinos were ticked off and started kicking out people who were obviously winning and counting cards. Counting cards is not illegal but casinos can refuse to allow a player on their premises. But what casinos did not notice right away, was that their profits were skyrocketing because so many people knew the theory but could not or were not capable of executing the card counting system.

But hey, the system works so everyone should count cards for a living right? Afterall, it is proven by math that the cards will eventually favor a player and in the long run, you can make huge profits from playing blackjack. Of course not, it is ridiculous for people to think that card counting is a good way to make a buck. Not everyone has the bankroll, the skill, and the patience to succeed in card counting. Most people are better off not even trying this.

In my informed opinion, this card counting system is just like WWDB, BWW, LTD, N21 or other Amway systems. For one thing, card counting is a proven system. The Amway systems are not. But it can be viewed as similar in that very few people can use the system and make it work. Even when hundreds of thousands may try it, very few will succeed in both Amway and card counting. In both "systems", those who do not succeed can lose thousands of dollars. In both systems, doing things right can still result in losses.

In both systems, it is "possible" to succeed, but it is highly unlikely. The vast majority of people simply do not possess the knowledge, skills and abilities to make the systems work for them. You also need some money, some patience, and some luck in order to be a long term success. This article is not about comparing the Amway systems to gambling, it is about a person's ability to make the system work. The difference is that nobody promotes card counting as a good way to make a buck. The same holds true about Amway and their systems. It is not a good system to make money.

Amway - Beware Of Your Upline?

Over the years, I have encountered many IBOs and they often have a common theme. They trust their upline and in some cases, consider them mentors. Now in a business venture, it might be good to have a mentor or someone to guide you, but in the Amway opportunity, most of the upline mentors make money off those who they mentor. That is a major conflict of interest but IBOs simply fail to see it.

When an IBO sees the plan in a big meeting, the speaker will often be built up as a financial guru, and possibly as an expert on how to succeed in Amway. An IBO may headr something about the trail was already blazed by upline and you just need to follow the trail. Don't re-invent the wheel, just copy what upline did. But as I have said many times before, duplication sounds easy and looks good on paper, but in real life, the vast majority of IBOs run into problems that they simply cannot overcome, such as the bad reputation that the Amway name has in the US.

What is troubling however, is that IBOs are taught to trust upline and do as they say (defacto requirement), but they are also taught that failure is their own shortcomings, even when they do exactly what upline told them. It is also troubling that many uplines will tell their faithful followers that they need to purchase more and more tools (voicemail, cds, seminar tickets). In some cases, an upline may advise their downline to sacrifice basic family needs to buy these tools. Some IBOs were advised to skip meals to buy a cd, or skip paying the mortgage to be able to attend the next big function.

I might also add that as a newer IBO or prospect, you may have heard that "everyone starts at zero", or that it's a level playing field. It is not. As a new IBO, you will likely be in the 100 PV bracket. Since Amway pays out about 31% in bonuses, your upline(s) will split up about 28% in bonuses off your efforts while you get a 3%bonus. That doesn't sound very level to me.

So each IBO should look at things objectively and see if your upline is helping you or simply helping himself by giving you advice that ends up in profit for himself with little or nothing for you.

Amway - IBOs Help People?

When I was an IBO, I remember at many meetings, the speaker would talk about how IBOs are helping people by getting them in the business or at least showing them the plan. Looking back, I fail to see how inviting someone into a business where they are virtually assured of losing money (in the systems) is helping them. This is also how some IBOs think that they are suddenly "better" people because they think they are helping people by being an IBO.

On average, Amway products cost more than big retailers so a prospect is not necessarily helped by purchasing Amway products. For IBOs purchasing Amway products, they are taking away from their local economy by purchasing Amway goods, although I guess you could argue that the IBO is helping Amway to succeed.

IBOs who are actively building a business usually have many meetings to attend, and hard core IBOs are taught not to miss any meetings. Therefore and IBOO has less time to spend with his or her family. The IBO has less time to spend at church, and less time to help with any community projects. The IBO will probably miss someone's wedding or birthday celebration because of the hectic schedule of an IBO.

While all of this activity is happening, IBOs also have less money because the voicemail, standing order, functions and books and other expenses eat away at an IBO's resources. Thus IBOs have less to contribute to charity.

So an honest question. How do IBOs help people by building an Amway business? How are they better people by showing someone the plan?

Im my informed opinion, the nicer and better person is what upline teaches as a side note to distract an IBO from the FACT that they are losing money because of the defacto 100 PV and tools requirements. They also make it seem as if IBOs are "helping" people by showing them the business plan. When you think about it, perhaps just the opposite is happening. This is another tactic, IMO that uplines use to justify an IBO's lack of progress, much like how they tell downline that they are successful just by getting themselves to a function.

Beware!

Amway - Time And Money?

Time and money. When you control both, you are free. At least that's how the business was pitched to me as a prospect. It made sense at the time. If you have enough money, then you don;t have to have a job and go to work every day. Having enugh money allowed you to control your time. It sounded like a great deal to sleep late every day and not have any financial difficulties. It sounds so simple. Join Amway, 2-5 years and there you are.

But for most people, joining Amway (and the systems)ironically robs you of what you desire most. Time and money. For those wanting to build a business, you may be told you need to invest in your business, and while that may be true, I do not believe there is any bonafide evidence that can support the relationship between the investment of time and money into the Amway business and earning a significant income. Many people have invested years and thousands of dollars into the business only to end up with nothing. My sponsor was a physician who spent many days away from his practice (lost income) and his oldest child (son) probably didn't see him very much since he was out showing the plan every nite.

Diamonds give the appearance of being filthy rich with nothing to do but golf abd go shopping but we are now seeing evidence that diamonds may not be all that. Home foreclosures, bankruptcy, former diamonds speaking out, diamonds moving their groups out of Amway, diamonds possibly selling their homes and downsizing. I believe that there are possibly many - a - diamond who is in financial difficulty and they have not escaped the tough economy as they may have implied in a meeting.

Also, if diamonds were so free and filthy rich as they like to portray, why don't any of the bigger pins ever walk away from the business and live on the beaches of the world that they like to talk about? Why are they always attending and running functions? I am guessing tha most of them are working these functions - because they have to. I suspect that some of these diamonds are in debt trying to portray a lifestyle that they truly cannot afford.

If you are joining Amway to gain more time and money, I urge you to make sure you are keeping track to see if you are gaining time and money, but if you look carefully, you will probably find that what you desire more of, is what you actually have less of. That is, time and money.

Amway Apologists Are In Denial?

The battle continues between Amway critics and Amway apologists. The apologists like to cite new platinums, but do not mention that just as many, and possibly more platinums dropped out of qualification. They like to cite Amway's growth, but fail to mention how the growth is apparently in foreign countries and not in the US and Canada. Even if there are more platinums or growth, it doesn'e mean anything and I will go onto explain.

In a platinum group, there are in many cases, 100 downline IBOs. Most if not all of tehse downline are losing money or making nothing, and it is worse, especiialy if they are buying voicemail, standing order and other tools. An IBO who does nothing may still lose money on website fees, or at the minimum, registration fees. Yes, they might be refundable, but many IBOs are not aware of this, or are not interested in asking their sponsors, or simply write up the loss as a life lesson. Thus the more growth, or the more platinums, the more downline there are losing money.

I also understand that Amway is not a game of chance, but your odds of achieving a significant income can be compared to winning a lottery. Even those who put forth an earnest effort are rarely rewarded with upper echelon pin levels and "passive income" rolling in while you walk the nicest beaches of the world. Amway supporters are wanting to show what is "possible", but showing the best case scenario is deceiving and IBOs do not realize "what is likely" until they have already participated and wasted their hard earned cash on tools that do not work.

There doesn't appear to be any connection with the amount of effort an IBO puts in with progressive amounts of income. While you can argue that succeeding takes hard work, there are probably more cases of hard work resulting in financial losses or possibly financial devastation. I personally witnessed a crossline losing their home to foreclosure and a crossline winding up in bankruptcy, all while following upline advice to keep pouring money into tools even while these IBOs made no progress in terms of sponsoring downline.

The Amway Apologosts can continue to deny the shortcomings of the Amway opportunity, but for me, the results speak loud and clear.

Amway - The Hypocrisy Of Upline Leaders?

Now that the internet is so accessible, information flows freely and some of the dark secrets of the Lines Of Sponsorship have been exposed. Also, as times passes, it is becoming clear that a bunch of upline leaders are major hypocrites, apparently motivated by greed and personal gain. I believe this trend will continue as well.

Many upline leaders appeal to their audience by talking about how the Amway business can save marriages. I remember sitting in an audience when some diamonds spoke about how couples who build the business have a less than 2% divorce rate as compared to the national figure of 50% or so. One major reason cited was the financial stress that J-O-B people had (not enough cash). But now we see some upline diamond leaders getting divorced and in some cases, no explanation is offered, as if the missing spouse was beamed up by aliens.

People also found that some diamonds make a lot of money from tools. When I was an IBO, we were told very clearly, that nobody made profits from tools. That profits went back into the functions to make them better and cheaper. (Has any function gotten cheaper in the last 12 years?) In fact, when I was an IBO, I was told that WWDB was a non-profit entity, which was a bold lie. I will admit that upline later changed their story to WWDB was a for profit company, but nobody kept profits, thus the channeling money to make events better and cheaper.

Some upline leaders also spoke of how utterly stupid it was to take out a loan as the banks make so much money off the interest. We now see some of these very leaders having their homes foreclosed! Some of these diamonds were the very ones who said their pay cash for everything, including their homes and cars.

What's even more amazing is how the hypocrisy of some of these leaders are exposed to downline and the downline simply ignores it and continues to follow blindly without an explantion or questioning the leaders after the incidents are exposed.
IBOs should ask their leaders questions when these kinds of issues arise. And you should think twice if the answer your receive is questionable.

Amway - Road to Riches Or Path To Financial Disaster?

When I saw the Amway plan, it was presented sort of as a raod to riches. Yes, the presenter was careful not o say it was "get rich quick", but 2-5 years is relatively quick when compared with working 40 hours a week for 40 years as the business plan was shown to us. And while some exceptional people do achieve diamond, there is a trail of IBOs who suffer losses, some of them staggering. In our own group, I know of at least one couple who lost their home following upline advice, and another couple to ended up filing for chapter 7 bankruptcy. I must state that the bad advice leading to bankruptcy and foreclosure most likely came from upline leaders. I also know of a gal who quit her job to attend a function, faithfully following upline advice from WWDB.

So what is the experience of many CORE IBOs? I'm not talking about those who "do nothing", but IBOs who actually make an effort. Well, if they do their 100 PV, then they are spending about $300 a month and dedicated IBOs will typically spend about $200 a month on average for tools. This is for a single person. A couple or family would be expected to do more, thus spend more. So for these 100 PV IBOs, they will expend about $500 a month and get back maybe $10. Of course if they were not in Amway, they would still have some expenses for household goods, but not anywhere near $500 a month.

Over the course of a few years, these expenses add up and can become staggering losses. Hard core IBOs might expend even more. The only way a rank and file IBO can gain relief is to sell products (which is difficult given the prices and the Amway name reputation) or to sponsor downline who wil then suffer some of the losses for you. It would be my estimate that an IBO might break even at about the 4000 PV level. However, at 4000 PV, you might have 30 to 40 downline. The catch is that only about 1 in 5 IBOs manage to sponsor another IBO.

Over the years, I would suspect that millions of IBOs have come and gone through the Amway opportunity, and probably lost billions of dollars. But many of those who lose money think they are successful, because many upline will edify those who buy tools, regardless of IBO results. After a few months, if your group and PV are not growing consistently, it is highly unlikely that you are headed for success.

IBOs and newbies, are you on the road to riches or financial disaster? Keep in mind that a net loss is not success, despite what you upline mentor may tell you.

Amway - Amway's Caped Crusaders!

I have been blogging for a number of years now and over the years, I have encountered a number of Amway defenders. One of them resorted to sending me a threatening email, and some of them have been trying to find my identity, I suppose as a way of harrassing me. What I have found in nearly every case is that the "fired up" IBO will criticize for a while,, and then completely disappear. I presume that the luster of the Amway business fades and more than likely these folks end up quitting, and thus quit blogging.

But as I stated elsewhere, other big companies such as WalMart has critics. But Amway is the only business I know of where their salesforce independently defend the company by attacking and criticizing their critics. What's even more astounding to me is that many if not most of these "caped crusaders" don't even earn a net profit from Amway, yet they fiercely defend their beloved opportunity.

I have yet to see an IBO Amway defender be able to describe or reasonably explain, how they have earned a net profit from the business. I know that some people make a nice living from the Amway opportunity, but that is the exception, not the rule. I would guess that most IBOs, even dedicated ones end up with a net loss if they are fully subscribed to the teaching system of cds, books, voicemail and functions.

Lastly, many of these IBOs have misguided criticism. If you carefully read through Joecool's blog, you will notice that most of my articles do not focus on Amway the corporation, but the AMOs, or the companies that promote and sell the tools to the IBOs. I believe the upline diamond leaders are in a position of conflict of interest in selling these tools, and basically screw over their downline in some cases, especially when the advocate for IBOs to have their families skip meals so buy more cds, or to dekay paying bills or the mortgage to attend a function, or to qui a job to attend a seminar.

It is these abuses, which apparently still go on today, which is what I am against. And while these abuses continue, so does Joecool.

Amway - Prospects And IBOs Deceived From The Outset?

I was thinking about how propsects are invited to see the plan. In many cases, there will have been a bit of deception or half truths told in order for an IBO to get a prospect in front of the plan. But then I thought about the plan and how much deception was used in the plan itself by the speaker.

Thus, IBOs and new prospects are deceived right from the beginning. The speaker might make some small talk, and get the prospect to agree on certain issues, such as income tax and insurance eating away at your paycheck, etc. When a prospect hears this, it will make sense and they will agree and trust the spaker somewhat. Afterall, the speaker has been built up to be a financial whiz and all.

Then the deception begins.............

The speaker might talk about IBOs saving 30% on products righ from the start, which is false. Here's some information debunking that age old myth:
http://www.amquix.info/Save30_myth.html

Then the speaker might talk about 98% of people being dead or broke by age 65, which is not true. The speaker might talk about 90% or more of small businesses failing in the first year. These little factoids (which are untrue) are apparently used to make other opportunities seem flawed in comparison with the Amway opportunity.

The speaker might then talk about how the Amway opportunity is cheap to get started, and has little or no overhead. But the problem is that many dedicated IBOs will get hosed as their upline will begin to teach them that they need to invest in their business in the form of voicemail, book of the month, standing order and attending all meetings. These expenses nearly guarantee that an IBO will end up with a net loss of income. What's more, upline may teach that this is success! Appalling!

So a question for IBOs and prospects. Is it a good opportunity when you have been lied to or deceived right from the outset?

Amway - Contradictions By Upline?

What I noticed as an IBO, and still observe today is the contradictory teaching my many upline. I see it as sort of a bait and switch technique where IBOs may be prospected by being told one thing, and then having the teaching changed after they register. There are many examples, but one of the main issue is when the plan is presented, many promoters will talk about how an Amway business has little or no overhead, therefore you should be able to profit quickly.

A quick profit is definitely a pitch that prospects are enticed by. But what I have observed is that the teaching quickly changes to a real business owner must invest in his business. Usually this means that an IBO must invest in tools and other cost items allegedly needed to run a successful Amway business. IBOs will often claim that a business owner should not expect to profit for 5 or more years. But wait, that's not what was said in the opening presentation right? This is just one example of the bait and switch used by uplines.

Another one I have heard, and quite commonly, is to tell IBOs that meetings are not required. While it may be true that meetings are not required, uplines will tell prospects that they "need" to attend, but only if they wish to be successful. Does that sound optional to you? It sounds like a (defacto) requirement to me.

A big take also told my many upline is that an IBO should get out of debt. Now on the surface, this is good advice for most people, including business owners. But while upline will teach get of of debt, they will at the same time, say it is okay to go in debt if it is to buy standing orders of to attend functions. Huh? Why would it be okay to go into debt when upline is teaching you to get out of hock? Maybe they only want you to spend money you don't have if it will benefit upline?

Now these are just a few examples. I have many more, but you can see from these examples, that contradictory advice basically is to get you enticed and involved in the business, and then a seperate set of expectations are set forth for IBOs. Another one is how most people would never spend $300 a month (100 PV) on household goods, yet they see it as a component of getting wealthy so they will do it while they are "building their business". Once an IBO does not see it as a component of getting rich, they stop using as many Amway products, and in most cases, do not even buy Amway products after they quit.

The discrepancies are there. It's a matter of whether an IBO will recognize and question it or not.

Amway - Fake Success Is Easy To Achieve!

Success and achievements. It is what most IBOs strive for. I know that Amway apologists are famous for justifying fake success, which is why I decided to write this blog post. By "fake success" I am talking about how apologists will say an IBO sold a can of XS for example, and will proclaim success. Now sure, selling products can be a step in the right direction, but the way IBOs act and the way their actions are reinforced, suggest to me that IBOs are given questionable ideas about success.

Prospects who attend a formal board plan or open meeting will very likely see a 6-4-2or 9-4-2, or some version of a plan. The plan generally will talk about going platinum where you make $40 to $50K annually, and all you need is six and then you are a diamond, etc etc. It all looks easy on paper. Duplicate yourself and you will be diamond in 2-5 years.

In real life, many IBOs cannot even find people agreeable to seeinng the plan, much less be able to sponsor others. Thus it would seem that uplines need to create "success" milestones that will help to retain an IBO in the business, and in particular, the tools business. So you might hear that meeting new people is a success, or showing someone the plan is a success, or showing up at the function is a success. When I was an IBO, I heard that the most important person to bring to the function was yourself. IBOs were edified for selling some personal items so they could afford a ticket to the function.

On our voicemail system, I heard all kinds of testimonies of success. Looking back, it was all just fluff by upline to reinforce an IBO's efforts to build and stay in the business, even if the bottom line results were futile. For example, I recall one IBO being edified when he ran out of satinue and used LOC to wash his hair. Or someone selling their car to make sure they could buy a plane ticket and attend the next major function. One IBO was called dedicated because she quit her job to attend a function (her boss would not allow time off).

Folks, fake success is easy to achieve. But at the end of the month, when you look at your Amway bonus, and then you subtract the cost of your voicemail, website, standing order, and function tickets, do you have a loss or a surplus? If it's a loss and your volume is not growing, I hate to break the news to you, but you are not succeeding. Fake success is easy, real success requires applying real business principles.

Amway - Your Business Dashboard?

When you drive a car, you have instruments on your dashboard that let you know how your car is running and possibly whether you need repairs. For example, you have a gas gauge so you know when to refill the gas tank. You may have a oil pressure gauge, tire pressure, and an indicator to show how warm or cool your engine is running. My car has a light that comes on when I need to change the oil or service the engine.

Your Amway business also has some gauges. Unfortunately, many IBOs are taught by upline to ignore these indicators or made to think that warning signs are not to be heeded. I will explain further, but I believe too many IBOs see the signs, but simply have been trained to ignore these vital warning signs.

Selling products. Are you buying more PV than you are selling? I believe most IBOs do, and AMway numbers confirm this as there is on average, about 1 customer for every 4 IBOs, and only about 4% of Amway goods are sold to non IBOs. No business can sustain itself without selling to customers. Why IBOs think they can succeed without customers is because of bad upline advice or teaching.

Non income producing activity. If you spend a lot of time listening to standing order, reading books, attending meetings and prospecting people, these activities do not produce any income. In fact these activities cost you money. Sure, eventually prospecting may pay off, but are you getting a fair return on your time and money spent doing these activities. If you pay for standing order but are unable to do more than 100 or 200 PV, then your business is not even covering the cost of standing order, not to mention the other costs that your upline may have told you was "needed".

Tools. If your expenditure on tools (cds/meetings/voicemail/website fees) continually exceeds your monthly income, you need to take a look at what it will take in order for your business income to grow. If not, you will simply take a loss month after month. If you are not sponsoring or finding more customers every single month, you are simply running in place and you will expend energy (money) and not get anywhere.

Are you showing the plan? If you are having trouble finding people to see the plan, then you will be unable to sponsor enough people to expand your volume. Also, an inability to show the plan also restricts your ability to recruit potential customers. Do people flinch when you mention Amway? These are signs that should warn you that the opportunity is not palatable to most people, despite what you hear from upline.

The warning signs and gauges are there. IBOs simply need to believe their own eyes.

Amway - What Is The "System"?

One of the things I was told by my upline was how we needed to follow the system. That the system would guarantee our success if only we applied it. As far as I know, there is no unbiased documented evidence that the system works. Even if there is an occasional platinum or diamond, you must consider the hundreds or thousand who did not succeed when evaluating the viability of a system. Let's look as some of the system components with Joecool's commentary.

Website: This is obviously necessary to have an online business. The question is whether you are getting good value out of it. For example, if your website costs $20a month and your bonus is $10 a month, you need to move more products or sponsor more people to increase your volume. Of course, your downline will then have the same problem you just addressed.

Functions: IMO, this is the biggest waste of money associated with the Amway business. For one, functions (including major functions) are the most expensive part of the system. And despite the cost, it takes an IBO away from his business for a time period, and returns very little or nothing in many cases. Additionally,
many IBOs will wind up pay for a standing order which was recorded at this very function!

Standing order: Another big waste of money. A weekly cd or tape subscription wher you hear some diamond or higher up talk about how he was nothing but never quit and is now a diamond. Often, the speaker will emphasize never quitting and attending more functions. My sponsor used to tell me that standing orders can sponsor people if you give them away. I know fo nobody who was sponsored by listening to a standing order.

Books: Some books may have value as they may offer self improvement ideas or relationship advice. However, oftentimes, books can be purchased cheaper at Barnes and Noble instead of from your upline. And not all books are useful.

Voicemail: It can be a good tool, but IMO, it is useless for the way people use it as IBOs. If you are using it to allow customers to place orders or leave messages for you, that is fine. But if it is only to contact your upline, I don't believe it is worth the price paid.

All in all, some tools can be helpful but in most cases, an IBO will not make enough of a bonus or cover any one of these expenses. IBOs need to analyze for themselves and information seekers should take this to heart.

Amway - We Don't Make Money Until You Do?

One of the things upline used to say in meetings was that they (upline) don't make any money until you (downline) do. Of course we know that is a full blown lie in most cases because once you register (many groups have a starter kit including products), upline makes some money. Once you purchase a cd, a book, or pay to attend a function, upline has also made some money off of you.

It would appear that most uplines will try to lure prospects into Amway by showing them the best case scenario of going diamond or higher, and all the alleged trappings available at the diamond level such as mansions and fancy cars. Once they get a prospect excited about the possibility of not working while cash rolls in, they then pitch their "foolproof" system of voicemail, cds, tapes, books and seminars. Although it is VERY RARE for any IBO to reach a level where they can net a profit, much less buy mansions, the upline will convince you that these goals are only attainable through the system teaching.

The sad reality is the upline makes money if you succeed, fail or do nothing, as long as you continue to purchase tools from them. However, you may be edified as being a committed IBO. It is why they may tell you that the most important person to get to the function or meeting is yourself. In an open meeting, there really is no point in attending if you have no prospects as your business cannot grow as a result of your attendance, but your attendence costs time and money.

If you as an IBO or a prospect really observes carefully, you will find many activities that will cost you time and money and will not result in your business volume growing. For example, reading a book might be good for you, but it is a non income producing activity. Attending an open meeting without prospects is another good example. Listening to standing order is another example. With all of these activities, an IBO is expending resources and not getting a return. Frankly the worst investment is attending an out of town function where your expenses are great whiley your business is left unattended to at home with no growth in downline or in product volume.

Don't buy it. Your upline makes money from you when you buy tools, whether you do a lot, a little, or nothing.

Amway - Financial Freedom?

Financial Freedom! That was one of the major battle cries when I was recruited for the Amway business. You gain control of time and money by creating residual or passive income. That is true financial freedom. You wake up at noon, no job, and just do whatever you please, whenever you please. I remember the speaker saying that broke/unemployed people also had freedom, but it was different because they were broke and could not afford to go golfing or do other activities that required money on a regular basis.

I am assuming that this is still the cae for many IBOs. Of course, upline leaders may toss in a disclaimer that you don't get rich quick as an IBO, but the pitch apparently still contains the financial freedom and residual income theme, based on my experiences with IBOs.

But hey, financial freedome would be a great thing, don't get me wrong. Who wouldn't want to be 35 years old with enough cash to never have to work again? I mean I could spend some time imagining how fun that would be. I mean it would also be fun to imagine what you would do with all the cash if you hit the powerball lottery as well. But for the starry eyed IBOs, I simply have a few questions for you to ponder. A few realistic questions that you should be asking yourself. The answers to these questions will tell you a lot.

1. Who in your group or upline truly has achieved financial freedom? Have you seen their financials or simply a display of wealth such as mansions and fancy cars? Mansions and fancy cars could just be a massive pile of debt. Not too long ago, there apparently were diamonds who had their homes foreclosed, and a triple diamond who was in bankruptcy proceedings. Find out if anyone in your group/upline has actually achieved the success that they are using to recruit you. Also, if they are financially free, why do they work at function after function? Traveling and speaking might not be a traditional job, but it is still work, nonetheless.

2. Even if you find someone who is retired and golfing everyday because of Amway residual income, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you will be able to achieve the same results. If diamonds are still working, what chance do you have of success if you are new or experienced in Amway, and have few or no downline. More than likely, your chance of winning the lottery will be greater than your chance of achieving a significant residual income from your Amway business.

Amway - Dead Or Broke By Age 65?

Below, I have posted a recent article indicating that about 1/4 of Americans are working beyond the age of 65. That certainly debunks the IBO myth that 98% of people are dead or broke by age 65. It should be noted that the older folks still working make very good money. More food for thought should be how you as an IBO will benefit from the Amway business if you are not making money or if you are losing money due to continuous purchases of "educational" materials.


http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/planning-to-retire/2009/7/14/a-quarter-of-americans-still-work-after-age-65.html

A Quarter of Americans Still Work After Age 65
Comment By Emily Brandon

Posted: July 14, 2009

Retirement is a thing of the past for a quarter of Americans over age 65. Just over 25 percent of those between ages 65 and 74 were still working in 2008, according to the latest Census Bureau numbers. And amazingly 9 percent of Americans still go to work between ages 75 and 84. After age 85, the number still working trickles down to 3 percent or about 122,000 people who continue to hammer away at their keyboard or punch in with their time clock.

Most people over age 65 still in the workforce are professionals (20 percent) or hold management positions (19 percent). A large portion of seniors also work in the service industry (18 percent) and sales (15 percent) or have office jobs (12 percent). But a few retirees also manage to do sometimes strenuous jobs such as production and transportation (12 percent) or construction and maintenance (5 percent).

Many of the seniors who continue to work full time have earnings at the top of the pay scale. About 20 percent of those age 65 and over make over $75,000 annually and just over half (53 percent) earn between $25,000 and $75,000 from work. Slightly over a quarter of those working full time in retirement make less than $25,000 annually.

Amway Global - Triple Diamond Bankruptcy?

WWDB Triple Diamond, Greg Duncan, apparently in financial difficulties. Although he appeared to have declared net assets of 63 million, it seems he cannot round up enough cash to pay his creditors. I wonder how much conviction Mr Duncan has these days when talking about his financial success? :-)


It started here: http://www.amquix.info/amway_real_estate_crisis.html

And then: http://www.amquix.info/duncan_bankrupt.html

And now: http://www.amquix.info/duncan_bankrupt_2.html

Amway - Upline Mentors or A Bunch Of Crooks?

One of the things our upline told us when I was an IBO was how much they cared about their groups. My sponsor told us that these wonderful diamonds could be anywhere, doing anything, but they chose to be at these functions out of love and loyalty to the group. At the time, upline insisted that nobody earned any money from the sale of support materials. I wonder how many of these wonderful upline mentors would have been at the function if they lost money or made no profit from the functions?

Shortly after I left the business, the lies about the tool income became exposed and the internet also made it easy for prospects to find out this information. Of course, many upline started to talk about tool income, although there is still a great deal of secrecy about the tools and the income generated by tools.

What I find humorous is how some IBOs actually think their upline is some kind of mentor to be followed. As time passes, we are finding that many diamonds are fakes and frauds. There are many "former" diamonds, clearly debunking the myth of lifelong residual income. We are finding diamonds who divorce, contrary to the teaching that Amway saves marriages. Diamonds who are in financial difficulty and some in apparent bankruptcy.

Now these diamonds are no different than the rest of society, but they made much profit in selling themselves as being "above" the crowds. Thay they were financially well versed, that their marriages were built on a foundation of rock. That their lives are in order and that these diamonds are to be honored and copied by their downline faithful. But slowly and surely, they are being exposed and hypocrites and we are finding that they are not living large and debt free as they claimed. They are being exposed as a bunch of crooks with nice suits and nice smiles. It is unfortunate that some of these diamond leaders are suffering misfortunes, but I have trouble drumming up sympathy for them at this point.

So is your upline a mentor to be followed or just a cheap crook?

Amway - Do IBOs Intend To Profit Or not?

I have been blogging for 5 or 6 years now and one thing I still cannot understand is whether or not, IBOs think it is important to make a profit. I hear stories about how IBOs are nicer people (although it doesn't show in many cases), how they make so much more money than before, how their lives are better, etc etc etc.

Now I know I joined Amway some years ago for one thing. That was to make money. If the plan said I could be nicer or make more friends, I would have quit or not joined at all. When I joined, I had been in my career for only about 9 years or so and thus, I was not at the top end of the pay scale, thus a few hundred a month more looked attractive.

I remember seeing the plan and thinking a diamond is a tough level to achieve. But I heard that a 2500 or 4000 could make up to $500 to $1000 a month. I was pretty sure I could reach those levels. And I did. But at the 4000 level, I made no money and I asked upline. I was told that the money would be there if only I would keep growing. I said wait a minute, where's the money that was supposed to be there?
(I'm from Hawaii so mainland functions ate up much of my profits). Upline told me to just keep going and the cash would be there. So I ignored losing money or breaking even at 4000 PV and I finally quit when my sponsor told me that I needed to submit to upline and really get plugged in to succeed. That pushed me off the edge (along with some other factors) and I quit.

But I ask this os IBOs, and new prospects. At what point do you expect to profit from the Amway business? And if you do as advised (told), at what point do you question that advice if you do not achieve what was advertised? If you spend money on standing order and functions and achieve what you were advised to do, why shouldn't the results be what was advertised?

If you truly believe that profit in business is not important, maybe you need to ask if you intended to profit or not. Seems upline is good at making people think profit is not important.